Chemists....

[bnumair]

Hey guys,
as some of you all might know i have been having some trouble keeping sps alive. all factors have been discussed in different forums and basically came down to a bad/broken titanium heater that leeches rust looking substance in water for over a month(that i know of).
since that discovery i have performed 30 gal water changes every week on a 300 gal system. a total of 120gal has been replaced so far.
Anyways i have found a company that does a very detail analysis of water.
they check for over 240 items in the water for a very reasonable price of $199.
problem is i am not aware of what all is suppose to be in salt water and what not.
is there a list with quantities that are suppose to be in saltwater or if i post my results can some reef chemists study it and see what stands out?

this is what they will be checking for:

DETAILS OF ALL 240 TEST PARAMETERS
BACTERIA
TOTAL COLIFORM - ESCHERICHIA - E. COLI (FECAL) BACTERIA
INORGANIC CHEMICALS - HEAVY AND SECONDARY METALS - PHYSICAL PROPERTIES
CHLORINATED PESTICIDES PCB'S
86 VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS
(VOC)
Alkalinity MERCURY 60 ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE VOC's
ALUMINUM Molybdenum FROM A LIBRARY SEARCH -
Antimony Nickel NEW EPA ADDITIONAL TARGET
ARSENIC NITRATES VOC COMPOUNDS -
Barium, Total Odor Total THMS
Beryllium pH TCE
Boron POTASSIUM PCE
BRINE RADIUM, TOTAL BTEX
Bromine Salinity MTBE Coverage of Oil
Cadmium, Total Selenium Fuel
Calcium Silica Gasoline exposure
Cesium, Total Silver Atrazine
CHLORIDE SODIUM Benzene
CHROMIUM Strontium, Total Chloroform
Chromium - 6 SULFATE Ethane
Color Tin Methane
Conductivity Thallium, Total Screen for Gasoline
Copper Titanium, Total Petroleum Hydrocarbons
Corrosivity/Index Langlier Total Alkalinity
FLUORIDE Total Hardness
Hardness Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)
Hexavalent Chromium Turbidity
Iodine, Total URANIUM, TOTAL
Iron Vanadium
Lead Zinc
Magnesium
Manganese




POLY CHLORINATED BI-PHENOLS (PCB)
PCB 1061 PCB 1248
PCB 1221 PCB 1254
PCB 1232 PCB 1260
PCB 1242 PCB 1262





VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS (VOC)
Acetone m,p-Xylene (BTEX) Vinyl Chloride
Acrylonitrile Methacrylonitrile 1-Chlorobutane
Allyl Chloride METHYL TERTIARY BUTYL ETHER (MTBE) 1,1-Dichloroethane
Benzene (BTEX) Methylacrylate 1,1-Dichloroethene
Bromobenzene Methylene Chloride 1,1-Dichloropropene
Bromochloromethane Methyliodide 1,1-Dichloropropanone
BROMODICHLOROMETHANE (THM) Methylmethacrylate 1,1,1-Trichloroethane
Bromoform (THM) n-Butylbenzene 1,1,1,2-Tetrachloroethane
Bromomethane n-Propylbenzene 1,1,2-Trichloroethane
Carbon Naphthalene 1,1,2,2-Tetrachloroethane
Carbon Tetrachloride Nitrobenzene 1,2-Dibromo-3-Chloropropane
Chloroacetonitrile o-Xylene (BTEX) 1,2-Dibromoethane
Chlorobenzene p-Isopropyltoluene 1,2-Dichlorobenzene
Chloroethane p-Xylene 1,2-Dichloroethane
Chloroform (THM) Pentachloroethane 1,2-Dichloropropane
Chloromethane Propionitrile 1,2,3-Trichlorobenzene
Chlorotoluene-2 sec-Butylbenzene 1,2,3-Trichloropropane
Chlorotoluene-4 Styrene 1,2,4-Trichlorobenzene
cis-1,2-Dicholoroethene tert-Butylbenzene 1,2,4-Trimethylbenzene
cis-1,3-Dichloropropene TETRACHLOROETHYLENE (PCE) 1,3-Dichlorobenzene
DIBROMOCHLOROMETHANE (THM) Tetrahydrofuran 1,3-Dichloropropane
Dibromomethane Toluene (BTEX) 1,3,5-Trimethylbenzene
Dichloroflouromethane Total Xylenes 1,4-Dichlorobenzene
Diethylether Trans-1,2-Dichloroethane 2-Butanone
Ethyl Methacrylate Trans -1,2-Dichloroethene 2-Hexanone
ETHYLBENZENE (BTEX) trans-1,3-Dichloropropene 2-Nitropropane
Hexachloroethane Trichloroethene 2,2-Dichloropropane
Hexachlorobutadione TRICHLOROETHYLENE (TCE) 4-Methyl-2-Pentanone
Isopropylbenzene Trichlorofluoromethane



INCLUDES: THM's and 4 Individual Bromoform, Bromodicloromethane, Chloroform, Dibromochloromethane; plus: Benzene, Ethane, Methane; BTEX: Benzene, Ethylbenzene, m,p-Xylene; o-Xylene, and MTBE: Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether; TCE and PCE: Trichloroethylene, Tetrachloroethylene
*PLUS LIBRARY SEARCH FOR 60 VOCS*



PESTICIDES FRACKING SHOWS WHERE THE
DDD c-Nonachlor TEST INCLUDES
50 KEY CONTAMINANTS
4, 4 - DDD t- Nonachlor FOR NATURAL GAS, OIL AND
SHALE DRILLING BY FRACKING
AND HYDRAULIC FRACTURING
WITH:
DDE Dieldrin Alkalinity
4, 4 - DDE Endosulfan I Aluminum
DDT Endosulfan II Arsenic
4, 4 - DDT Endosulfan Sulfate Atrazine
DTT Endrin Bacteria
Alachlor Endrin Ketone Total Coliform
Aldrin Endrinaldehyde ESCHERICHIA
E. COLI (FECAL) BACTERIA
Atrazine Heptachlor Coliform
a-BHC Heptachlor Epox Barium, Total
b-BHC Hexachlorobenzene BENZENE (BTEX)
g - BHC Hexachlorocyclopentadiene BRINE
Chlordane Lindane Bromine
Tech Chlordane Methoxychlor Bromodichloromethane (THM)
a - Chlordane Simazine Bromoform (THM)
b - Chlordane Toxaphene Cadmium, Total
Calcium
Carbon Disulfide
E. Carbon Tetrachloride
New EPA Additional Target VOC Compounds Cesium, Total
Acetone 2-Hexanone Chlordane
Acrylonitrile Methacrylonitrile Chloride
Allyl Chloride Methylacrylate Chloroform
2-Butanone Methyliodide Chromium
Carbon Disulfide Methylmethacrylate Conductivity
Chlordane 4-Methyl-2-Pentanone DIBROMODICHLOROMETHANE (THM)
Chloroacetonitrile Nitrobenzene E. Coli (Fecal) Bacteria
1-Chlorobutane 2-Nitropropane Ethylbenzene (BTEX)
Trans-1,2-Dichloroethane Pentachloroethane FLUORIDE
1,1-Dichloropropanone Propionitrile Hardness
Diethylether Tetrahydrofuran Iodine, Total
Ethyl Methacrylate Toxaphene Iron
Hexachloroethane Lead
Magnesium
Manganese
M,P-Xylene (BTEX)
METHANE
Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether (MTBE)
N-Butylbenzene
Nitrates
O-Xylene (BTEX)
pH
POTASSIUM
Radium, Total
SODIUM
Strontium, Total
Sulfate
Tetrachloroethylene (PCE)
Titanium, Total
Toluene (BTEX)
Total Alkalinity
Total Coliform
Total Conductivity
Total Hardness
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)
TOTAL THMS
Total Xylenes
Trichloroethylene (TCE)
Turbidity
Total Uranium


86 VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS
LIBRARY SCAN
OF 60 ADDITIONAL POSSIBLE
VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS

NEW EPA ADDITIONAL TARGET
VOC COMPOUNDS

[Jarmen]

I don't know if this might be relevant by Randy's article on seawater has data on the concentration of many elements in seawater.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-11/rhf/index.php

Jason

[bertoni]

Some of the tests for metals might be interesting, if they use precise and accurate enough equipment. I'm skeptical that it's going to be worth the money. That's a very low price.

[bnumair]

Some of the tests for metals might be interesting, if they use precise and accurate enough equipment. I'm skeptical that it's going to be worth the money. That's a very low price.

i found a company that will do metals and inorganic compounds for about $800 per sample.
they also asked me details about how and when the tank was setup and every little detail that i can think of that could cause a problem in water.
i have emailed them every detail and awaiting their response.
with them taking such interest in origin of tank setup and salts used meds used and matterial used tells me that they will be focused on finding a problem.
here is the company i am dealing with.
this is not the company or tests i posted earlier.
www.testamericainc.com
is there anything in perticular i want them to check for? i know copper for sure. what else jumps out?

[bertoni]

Copper, zinc, and the other trace metals might be worth checking.

[Spyderturbo007]

What elements are they proposing to analyze for $800 and what detection limits are you after?

As for the first list, that's insane for $200. There is no way.

[drliu]

It's quite possible that a company can test for hundreds of analytes for $200. The reason is that most of those compounds are organics, and you can use a mass spectrometer (or a few other instruments, but an MS is best) to simultaneously check for THOUSANDS of compounds in a single sample.

It's not like a colorimetric test in which only compound or ion is tested. It's more like tasting a cupcake and asking yourself if you taste chocolate, carrots, vanilla, almonds, salt, etc. You can assay for all of those flavors at once.

[bnumair]

well guys they did not charge me and told me what the problem was in my tank.
It was the great stuff foam that i used. according to them it is reef safe once cured over weeks. they broke it down to the chemicals in the foam.
Advice they gave me is to cure it dry for few weeks before adding to aquarium.
More further analysis is not required and they were pretty sure that foam was the cause.
it came down to 3 things.
1. rusting titanium heater
2. hydrogen sulphide in a non working sulfur denitrator
3. great stuff foam

Here is foam constituents:
Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
Propane 000074-98-6 1-5
Isobutane 000075-28-5 5-10
Methylene bisphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) 000101-68-8 5-10
Dimethyl ether 000115-10-6 1-5
MDI (polymeric) 009016-87-9 10-30
Tri-(2-chloroisopropyl)phosphate 013674-84-5 5-10
Isocyanic acid, polymethylenepolyphenylene ester, polymer with alpha-hydro-omega-hydroxypoly(oxy(methyl-1,2-ethanediyl))
053862-89-8 15-40
Polymethylenepolyphenylisocyanate, propoxylated glycerin polymer
057029-46-6 15-40
Chlorinated paraffin waxes 063449-39-8 5-10

response in email:
"I think you are on the road to recovery. MY two cents – I think it was the spray foam. Unless you let it cure for a few weeks before placing in the aquarium I think it could have very well affected the coral. I have listed the Chemical ingredients from the MSDS sheet below.

The titanium heater rod could have other metals in it, rust would come from iron; if copper the color would be green. Iron oxide should not bother it unless growing any mold/bacteria – typically would be a red/pinkish gelatinous type bacteria.

High sulfides may have affect the coral but, if cleaned is a moot point. With that off-line, the nitrates could have risen. You should beable to get strips to record this much like the pH.

That being said I think testing at this point may not be necessary if things are recovering. Let me know."

[bertoni]

Wow! I hope they're right! Sounds like a good deal if so!

[bnumair]

Wow! I hope they're right! Sounds like a good deal if so!

Jon they were right. i did 9x 35 gal tests and according to our very own RC water change calculator on home page if i do 9 x 35 gal change on a 300gal tank final result is 67% new water and 33% old.
With just that ratio all my zoa have opened back up after months and some came back form dead.
I placed a small SPS frag in my tank to check and for last 3 days its getting better and better and getting greener from just a brown color i got it in.
So on that note i think i am on the road to recovery and i personally believe that
chlorinated wax is to blame for this mess.
If cured dry for few weeks will probably not cause this situation i went through.
Best thing is to use the pond foam version of it which comes in black color rather than tan.

[Spyderturbo007]

That's great to hear! I'm happy that everything worked out for you in the end.

[bertoni]

I'm glad to hear that your tank is doing better!