Tropic Marin Bad Batch

[prop-frags]

We've been using TM or TMPR for years.
Best things about it have been the consistency of parms between batches, and the "purity" (meaning clean & clear dissolving, no leftovers in the vat).

Well, we've been noticing the consistency aspect has been getting worse lately (perhaps over the last 8-12 months maybe?). An online vendor recently put TMPR on sale so we stocked up. We noticed when we mixed up a vat from this batch, that the pH was much lower than usual, so we tested and found that the alk was extremely low (3.4 dKH using the hanna photo unit). Since this seemed quite unusual, we took a couple of the buckets (all were from the same batch # 22162) and mixed up some 1 gallon samples to verify. All were showing extremely low alk with depressed pH. CA and Mg measures were slightly lower than typical, but not much.

To verify further, we took one of the new buckets, mixed the entire contents thoroughly, and used it to mix up 100g in our vat. That 100g mix measured the following:
Alk 3.2 dKH, Ca 440, pH 7.94, Mg 1250

This leaves us wondering...bad batch? What else is missing from the batch if the Alk is this low? Can the salt be trusted for our reef? Do we just add soda to supplement the alk? Does anyone else have a bucket with this batch #?

Frustrating. :mad2:

[Andrew D]

I use TMPR. Where would I find the batch number to check?

[prop-frags]

The batch number is on the inside of the lid.

[bertoni]

3.2 dKH is very low. Some baking soda will fix that. I would be wary of other possible problems with the salt. Your story is all too common. :(

[RyanSweatt2004]

Your one of many people coming to the surface on this issue. One of the LFS"s here in Maine exclusively sells TM salts. I had been buying and using Tropic marin pro and bio actif for about 6 years. My tanks were always thriving. I switched from TM pro to the TM bio actif about 4 years into this hobby and started having cyano issues just weeks after the switch when I had always had none and very low nitrates and phosphates while using the TM pro. So I switched back to using TM pro reef again and some time last year I noticed my leather corals were staying closed for longer than normal. As long as a couple months. I decided to start checking my Alk and PH in each new 30 gallon batch of mixed water. The parameters were all over the place. With a salinity of .025, the PH was as low as 7.7 and the ALK would vary from 4.5 DKH to as high as 10.8 DKH from batch to batch all measured multiple times with salifert tests. So I started doing some extensive reading and finally decided to make the switch to regular Instant Ocean salts. The mix water almost always has an ALK between 10-11 DKH and PH of around 8.0, Much better and my corals are finally showing some growth and polyp extension now.

[Cloudburst2000]

You need to make sure to thoroughly mix the containers before you use them. I have heard of people having problems if they don't mix the containers beforehand but not if they make sure it is well mixed before use. It is very possible that the salt is 'settling' so you aren't getting a representative SW mix if you don't mix the salt well first. Just set the bucket on it side and roll it around really well. I even quickly invert mine.

[prop-frags]

You need to make sure to thoroughly mix the containers before you use them. I have heard of people having problems if they don't mix the containers beforehand but not if they make sure it is well mixed before use. It is very possible that the salt is 'settling' so you aren't getting a representative SW mix if you don't mix the salt well first. Just set the bucket on it side and roll it around really well. I even quickly invert mine.

We did thoroughly mix the buckets before testing them.

[drliu]

I have had the exact same problem with Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt.

After six months of no problems, I noticed my corals were complaining a bit and did my weekly alk test (I now test alk daily in part because of this experience). Previously my weekly 7:00 pm alk test came out as 144-147 ppm carbonate, ALWAYS. I dose alk in small amounts every 43 minutes using a peristaltic pump to make sure that my alk levels are as constant as humanly possible. I was shocked to find that the alk levels had plummeted to 120 ppm in one week, which is way too low.

I set up a system to change the water to my 225 gal reef continuously, 3% per day. After a lot of experimentation, I realized that the 55 gal barrel of Tropic Marin Pro Reef salt that I began using just after my 145 ppm alk test was at 1.025 sg but 70 ppm alk!!! I ended up losing a nice sps from this experience.

I called Foster and Smith, who sold me the TMPR salt, and they kindly agreed to send me a replacement bucket (worth less than the SPS I lost, unfortunately). The new bucket of salt tested at 135 ppm alk, which is fine. I assumed this was a one-off fluke and kept using TMPR salt.

Fast forward one month later... I made a new 55 g barrel of TMPR salt and AGAIN the alk came out at < 75 ppm. That was it, and I switched to Seachem Reef Salt instead.

Now before we conclude that Tropic Marin doesn't have their act together, I'll say that my subsequent tests with salts that come in large buckets suggest that the alk you get from salt at the top of the bucket can be quite different than the alk you get by the bottom of the bucket. Even though I do my best to keep the buckets sealed tight, I suspect that moisture can induce large amounts of heterogeneity in the alk content of different layers of salt in a bucket, especially during the humid summer months (now).

My solution: I no longer order salt in 200 gal large buckets. Instead, I order salt exclusively in 50 gal bags, and I dump the ENTIRE bag into a 55 gal barrel of RODI water. I reason that this practice eliminates the risk of alk swings caused by heterogeneity in the salt. So far so good and my alk tests every day at 7 pm are within +/- 2 ppm of my target.

[calbert0]

It happened to me with the regular Tropic Marin about 1.5 years ago. I used to swear by this salt but now i swear against it..... Especially when considering how much it costs.

[prop-frags]

Thanks for everyone for sharing their experiences.
We contacted Tropic Marin USA about our issues, but have not yet received a reply. We are also going to contact the online vendor from which we ordered the 10 buckets (!), and hopefully they can help us with getting a reply from TM. Our biggest concern at this point is if there is anything wrong with the mix aside from the low alk/pH. It's easy to adjust the alk up, but if other trace elements are missing or in the improper concentrations, could it cause problems with our system? We don't want use 2,000 gallons worth of salt mix if there are other problems besides alk! And, as several of you have pointed out, TMPR is expensive mix! It's bad to pay that premium for the mix and then have to supplement / test it for it to be usable.

[pencil3]

Don't use it, call/email TM USA and they will replace them.

We've been using TM or TMPR for years.
Best things about it have been the consistency of parms between batches, and the "purity" (meaning clean & clear dissolving, no leftovers in the vat).

Well, we've been noticing the consistency aspect has been getting worse lately (perhaps over the last 8-12 months maybe?). An online vendor recently put TMPR on sale so we stocked up. We noticed when we mixed up a vat from this batch, that the pH was much lower than usual, so we tested and found that the alk was extremely low (3.4 dKH using the hanna photo unit). Since this seemed quite unusual, we took a couple of the buckets (all were from the same batch # 22162) and mixed up some 1 gallon samples to verify. All were showing extremely low alk with depressed pH. CA and Mg measures were slightly lower than typical, but not much.

To verify further, we took one of the new buckets, mixed the entire contents thoroughly, and used it to mix up 100g in our vat. That 100g mix measured the following:
Alk 3.2 dKH, Ca 440, pH 7.94, Mg 1250

This leaves us wondering...bad batch? What else is missing from the batch if the Alk is this low? Can the salt be trusted for our reef? Do we just add soda to supplement the alk? Does anyone else have a bucket with this batch #?

Frustrating. :mad2:

[prop-frags]

Don't use it, call/email TM USA and they will replace them.

Thanks. We emailed them last Friday and are waiting on a reply.

[hotsoup]

I tested mine and god, KH at 3

[Allmost]

hmmm ! mine reads KH at 7, but I will do another mix tonight to test.

recently switched over to this from RBS ... guess Im going back :)

[prop-frags]

I tested mine and god, KH at 3

hmmm ! mine reads KH at 7, but I will do another mix tonight to test.

recently switched over to this from RBS ... guess Im going back :)

Would you guys mind sharing the batch #'s?

[jamey1015]

Search back and you will find we had a long thread going about this exact issue a couple months ago tm replaced all mine after telling me around 4dkh would be the norm so I asked for regular tm for the replacement as they assured it would be higher in alk which it was except the mag was 1000 when I tested it.

I gave up and switched to salinity that mixes up with good numbers.

[hotsoup]

on the safe side, better test KH first before the water change

[Arkayology]

I'm going to have to check my params on the new bucket i just bought.

[hoaglanddiver]

I started my system 8 months ago.. initially started w/ the TM PR... however after about 5 mos of consistently low alk and PH, I decided to switch (I have 150 gal sys and was doing 15% water changes every wk -- needless to say, I've been through quite a few buckets (of 200 gallon mix). I finally gave up and switched brands. Everything has been MUCH better now. Will never go back. :-(