View Full Version : Natural Sea Water
Da Maui life
08/17/2012, 02:52 PM
I’m thinking of switching to natural sea water and have been working on my collection equipment and research into the subject of treating the water.
If you had access to ‘clean’ ocean water to put in your aquarium, would you?
What would be your preferred method of treating the water, filtered extensively, treated with UV Sterilization, buffered for pH ?
Mahalo
bnumair
08/17/2012, 03:35 PM
i have heard people just bucketing water and dumping it straight into tanks. to me i would run it through a filter and uv just to make sure. but thats just me.
Dave Thebrewguy
08/17/2012, 03:48 PM
So far, my prefered method is:
Jump off swim platform holding 2, 5 gallon water jugs,
Get a little water in them, swish it around to rinse and dump it back out,
Submerge to fill, 4.5 gallons is manageable, cover with plastic bag and rubber band,
Put the jugs in the back of the car upon arrival back at the marina and forget about them,
Bring them in the house once I get home and leave them next to the tank,
Allow to "settle" until the next day and use them for a water change.
I usually use about 4 gallons out of the 4.5, I dump out the bottom along with whatever settles out of it. It's not unusual to get a wisp of silt and a few dead pods after a couple days in the jug, including a (sometimes rough) boat ride and a 2+ hour car ride.
Allmost
08/17/2012, 03:52 PM
pass it through filter socks and use it.
collect not close to the shore.
IMHO UV will kill the good bacteria u can certainly use.
Da Maui life
08/17/2012, 05:42 PM
I have seen online a few NSW companies claim to use UV as part of the treatment process, perhaps this extends the shelf life? Agree, “UV will kill the good bacteria” my plan was to filter twice, point of collection and before it go’s in the tank.
Trevenator
08/17/2012, 06:07 PM
I don't filter mine at all and the coral love it.
Been using it for 3 years and have never had any kind of problem.
bertoni
08/17/2012, 11:04 PM
Well, a lot depends on where you're gathering the water. If you're gathering it in warm waters, it's possible that you could pick up some disease or parasite. On the other hand, unfiltered ocean water often has live plankton that makes good food for corals and other such animals. UV might kill some bacteria, but I doubt that's going to make much difference unless it manages to prevent a disease outbreak.
baldbean
08/17/2012, 11:40 PM
I live in San Diego and get water from the Scripps pier spout which is free and there to use by local reefers. It is filtered and is the same water they use for the aquarium just up the hill. Many people that use it love it, while those that don't call it dirty and don't trust it saying its high in phosphates. On the local forum when this flame war begins, it often times put out when people start posting water parameters and Hanna numbers showing phosphates are almost 0. However mag is a little on the low side, but not detrimental.
I usually aerate the water for 24 hours, then get it up to my tanks temp before doing the water change. No UV, no filter sock. My tank is fairly new still and everything seems to like it.
bluereefs
08/18/2012, 06:26 AM
Croatia /Europe/ Adriatic sea, all my aquariums for decade use natural sea water, no problem at all, during summer water is hot even up to 29 degree C, during summer cold aprox 8-12 degree C, dont see any problems with parasite or similar issue. Pick up the water when swiming or during summer from the shore. Natural sea water is the best for reef aquariums IMO.
Never treated NSW with anything, just fill the can and dump in aquariums.
Is very important to know that NSW is alive and need to be dumped in aquarium in short period of time after colection, paticulary in summer time with hot temperature when plankton/bacteria can die in short period of time in closed can without oxygen. I use NSW few hours after colection.
TL1000RSquid
08/18/2012, 11:47 AM
I know some people locally who use NSW no filtering or anything with great success. Would I use it? Sure if someone else collected it for me, seems like to much work to me when I can just turn on the RODI and dump in some salt. :)
Paul B
08/18/2012, 11:59 AM
I generally check the salinity because here in NY it is a little low so I may add some ASW, then I dump it in. My tank was started with NSW.
Da Maui life
08/18/2012, 01:05 PM
Croatia /Europe/ Adriatic sea, all my aquariums for decade use natural sea water, no problem at all, during summer water is hot even up to 29 degree C, during summer cold aprox 8-12 degree C, dont see any problems with parasite or similar issue. Pick up the water when swiming or during summer from the shore. Natural sea water is the best for reef aquariums IMO.
Never treated NSW with anything, just fill the can and dump in aquariums.
Is very important to know that NSW is alive and need to be dumped in aquarium in short period of time after colection, paticulary in summer time with hot temperature when plankton/bacteria can die in short period of time in closed can without oxygen. I use NSW few hours after colection.
Love the old architecture of Rab Island, beautiful.:beer:
oscar.millan
08/18/2012, 03:27 PM
For me it was too many unknowns and too many variables. I used NSW for a while, then went back to mixing my own with good salt and and RO/DI.
bongarone
08/18/2012, 07:02 PM
I’m thinking of switching to natural sea water and have been working on my collection equipment and research into the subject of treating the water.
If you had access to ‘clean’ ocean water to put in your aquarium, would you?
What would be your preferred method of treating the water, filtered extensively, treated with UV Sterilization, buffered for pH ?
Mahalo
Maui, huh?
Yea, I'd use NSW for sure if I lived there.
smootie
08/19/2012, 12:31 AM
On Oahu we have a NSW pump that a lot of the local aquarists use. It goes into a bucket and straight into my tank.
Da Maui life
08/19/2012, 01:04 PM
On Oahu we have a NSW pump that a lot of the local aquarists use. It goes into a bucket and straight into my tank.
I'm not sure if we have one, never seen nsw pump on the south side maybe Kahului? But I could go down by La Perouse bay next to the Nature Reserve the water is ono.
BigAirHarper
08/19/2012, 10:55 PM
+1 on NSW, I've been using it on my reef with no problems. Just pump it into buckets at high tide, then pour it in the tank.
Maivortex
09/03/2012, 12:50 PM
I lived on Maui for ten years. Never used artificial SW. I collected it with water jugs during high tide from well mixed tidepools. No need filter it, or treat it in any way. On occassion, I did 90% water changes and the animals loved it.
I forget the name, but there is a hotel on S kihei rd about 3 miles before wailea that gives you a very close parking lot to these tidepools.
Dont get water in kahului, this water is full of partuculates, hence all the fiulter feeders on that side.
Also, when I was there the maui ocean center would give me water. They have a pump that is open to the public. It is filtered.....
Paul B
09/03/2012, 01:25 PM
I just dumped in 15 gallons today
CHSUB
09/03/2012, 01:37 PM
I have been using NSW for 30 years in northern Mass. and S. Florida with no problems, in fact, just about every LFS in S. Florida uses NSW from a man named Rick....
Green Chromis
09/04/2012, 08:35 AM
Rick collects his water from Govt. Cut or Haulover Inlet on the incoming high tide, I prefer to collect my NSW offshore in the Gulf Stream. Never had a problem with parasites or anything else. The corals and fish love the water changes using NSW.
Da Maui life
09/08/2012, 08:16 PM
Since my OP I’ve been using NSW and have gradually made larger WC per week, stopped @30% with no problems.Correct me if I’m wrong, but with NSW you should be able to change lager volumes over synthetic.
Question, for you NSW users what percentage do you think is best for NSW WC?
pryorrods
09/08/2012, 11:13 PM
If you can collect offshore and subsurface, there is usually nothing wrong with NSW. If you have a reef tank, you will still probably have to add synthetic salt to raise the salinity from the normal 1.022-1.023SG normally found on both coasts. I like to let the water settle for at least an hour before using it in my tanks. I don't recommend filtering through socks as there are many more beneficial organisms in NSW that we all would want in our tanks. The only reason I let my new water sit for an hour is to let dead organisms settle to the bottom. No, UV will not kill good bacteria in the water. In order to do that, the flow through a UV would have to be reduced to a trickle....literally. If UV killed the good bacteria in our tanks through normal flow rates, why would we use it. One thing though, don't expect NSW to be crystal clear as there are so many living organisms in the water column itself.
mtcoins123
09/09/2012, 12:21 AM
I generally check the salinity because here in NY it is a little low so I may add some ASW, then I dump it in. My tank was started with NSW.
Paul did you start your tank with all collected NSW the whole tank and sump? I am asking because I have had this debate with someone else about the amount of life in NSW. I have heard when used straight from the ocean the mass of life in the water exhausts the oxygen in minutes and the die off that follows makes the water septic and needs substantial time filtering / cycling I have no personal experience and no research to back that up, but your answer may provide the first data for my research :lol:
Da Maui life
09/09/2012, 01:20 AM
If you can collect offshore and subsurface, there is usually nothing wrong with NSW. If you have a reef tank, you will still probably have to add synthetic salt to raise the salinity from the normal 1.022-1.023SG normally found on both coasts. I like to let the water settle for at least an hour before using it in my tanks. I don't recommend filtering through socks as there are many more beneficial organisms in NSW that we all would want in our tanks. The only reason I let my new water sit for an hour is to let dead organisms settle to the bottom. No, UV will not kill good bacteria in the water. In order to do that, the flow through a UV would have to be reduced to a trickle....literally. If UV killed the good bacteria in our tanks through normal flow rates, why would we use it. One thing though, don't expect NSW to be crystal clear as there are so many living organisms in the water column itself.
Thanks for the input but that’s not my question. However at my point of collection I don’t have any issues with the salinity in the NSW, 1.023-1.024. Living in middle of the pacific ocean our waters are extremely clear. No issues from the ocean to the tank no cloudy water
Da Maui life
09/09/2012, 01:25 AM
Paul did you start your tank with all collected NSW the whole tank and sump? I am asking because I have had this debate with someone else about the amount of life in NSW. I have heard when used straight from the ocean the mass of life in the water exhausts the oxygen in minutes and the die off that follows makes the water septic and needs substantial time filtering / cycling I have no personal experience and no research to back that up, but your answer may provide the first data for my research :lol:
My tank is 100% NSW now, no problems at all
r-balljunkie
09/09/2012, 01:56 AM
ive been using NSW on and off for a couple of years. i keep salt on hand, whereas sometimes its easier for me to mix a batch up in the house when im too lazy to bike down to fill my buckets. I tend to never collect after it has rained, as the island i live on has a bit of run off, and ive had bad luck with the water being very inconsistent afterwards. it seems every time im about to get off my lazy arse to fill my buckets, it rains...allowing me to sit back on the couch with my remote :) i dont filter or strain or let it settle, just dump it in. Good luck with your tank.
r-balljunkie
09/09/2012, 02:00 AM
some test results. been meaning to retest some time....
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=18983078&postcount=168
Paul B
09/09/2012, 06:44 AM
Paul did you start your tank with all collected NSW the whole tank and sump?
My reef was started with 100% NSW as ASW was not for sale then. I used all NSW for a few years with no problems, I don't have a sump, they were also not invented when I started the tank.
Now when I take NSW I either dump it in right away after letting it come to the right temp and checking the salinity or a wait a few days. If you store NSW in a container it may get a little clowdy from the organisms that will multiply on the sides of the container, then die causing a little bacterial explosion. This is not harmful and may actually be beneficial. In a few days it will be crystal clear.
If I were to now fiil an entire tank from scratch with NSW I would put it in a seperate container, let the dead bacteria settle and siphon off the clear water in a few days. Only because there may be a trace of nitrate produced by the dead organisms but I don't think it will harm anything as my tank was started that way and it is still running. I also don't go far to collect it, just as far out as I can fill a bucket preferably on an incoming tide and not near a boat ramp, river, dump etc. (common sense)
I have heard when used straight from the ocean the mass of life in the water exhausts the oxygen in minutes and the die off that follows makes the water septic and needs substantial time filtering
Ask him to show me the septic parts of my tank :lol2:
He is referring to filling an entire tank with NSW. Then the water will be devoid of oxygen for a few days during the bacteria bloom but you would not put fish in for a week or so anyway. Partial water changes are no problem.
Augster
09/09/2012, 09:22 AM
Many people that use it love it, while those that don't call it dirty and don't trust it saying its high in phosphates.
I disagree with this pigeon-holing of those that don't use it.
I live in the PQ area and the time through traffic trying to get to Scripps and back is inconvenient and my full size truck is not the most fuel efficient delivery method for supporting a 100g system.
In addition, I have two 58 gallon barrels I use for both automatic water changes and top offs (one saltwater the other RO/DI water) and to fill and store NSW in 60 gallon quantities is both unwieldy in terms of having to maintain a larger number of containers to fill and transport 60 gallons worth back and forth, as well as it's not recommended to store unused NSW for such long periods of time.
So for me it is so much more cost and time efficient to purchase salt online and have it delivered to my door. Then I can mix and store when I need to for as long as necessary. Otherwise, I have nothing against NSW. :twitch: But the fact of the matter is that gorgeous and successful reef tanks have been maintained in both NSW and ASW so you can't go wrong either way. It's all up to each individual aquarist to properly care for their systems.
CHSUB
09/09/2012, 09:52 AM
I store NSW for 2-3 months in brute buckets and have been doing this for over 10 years with no problems. I buffer for alk and don't use the bottom inch or 2, but even that water is crystal clear. i have used ASW in the past and see no difference between them. if you use NSW i believe one needs to be more careful, however i have read posts about bad ASW before too....
bertoni
09/09/2012, 10:42 PM
It's possible that some NSW has enough organic debris to reduce the oxygen level if there's no circulation, but that's easily solved with a powerhead. For many or most of us, NSW isn't cost-effective or time-effective.
bebangs
09/10/2012, 03:39 AM
I didnt have any cheatos for my sump. So last month, i went to the beach to collect some plants and cheatos. it was lowest tide at that time so i went far from the shore to collect them.
2 weeks later, fish shows signs of internal parasite and some fungal desease. I had a few casualties. Now, they'r back at my quarantine tank with medications. starting over again (i've just started last month anyway).
Im not sure if I would consider getting NSW without some kind of filtration or curing process. Im not sure it's worth the risk once my tank is established.
do you do some sort of filtration or curing process before using them?
Paul B
09/10/2012, 04:34 AM
do you do some sort of filtration or curing process before using them?
I don't, and in over 40 years I have not had any problems.
SoFloReefer
09/10/2012, 05:59 AM
Like previously mentioned, all the LFS use sea water in South Florida. I buy by water from them for $.50 gallon only for convenience. I believe that the suppliers of ocean water collect from the inlet at incoming high tide. When there is extended periods of rain (read as lots of canal fresh water run off) the supply dries up and the stores run out. If I had a larger tank I would mix because that would be more convenient for larger water changes. If I had my own house (live with parents), I would get one of those huge water storing containers, maybe 500 gallons, in the garage and have the same people that deliver to the LFS come fill it up.
Green Chromis
09/10/2012, 10:55 AM
My total system is around 600 gallons and I started it with 100% NSW and all my water changes are with NSW. Nothing better than NSW as long as the area where you collect it is not polluted. I enjoy going out in the boat to collect the water, very relaxing and we usally bring home some fresh Dolphin, Snapper or Grouper for dinner. :):beer:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.