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coral_addict
08/18/2012, 10:35 PM
Hello fellow reefers! I've had my tank for about a year and a half now (Got it in march of '11). It's a 28 gallon JBJ Nanocube with LED lighting, proffesional grade.

Here's the problem: For the past five or six months, the algae has just been awful. Cyano, hair algae, diatoms, you name it, I probably have some. For a while, that was the extent of my troubles. But over time, it kept getting worse. I began doing water changes about once every week a few months ago. But then, over a period of about a month, I lost all three of my fish: first a bangaii cardinal, then an ocellaris clownfish, then another banggai. In addition, about three weeks ago, my trachyphyllia bleached- not completely, but it's definitely not doing great. My tank has been without fish for close to a month now, and I cut back feeding my corals to maybe once or twice a week. Here are all my specifications:

Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
Phosphate: 0ppm
Salinity: 1.0235 (Tested with a hydrometer, will recheck with a more accurate refractometer tomorrow)

Tank: JBJ 28 gallon nanocube, professional lighting
Daylights: 25 X 3W
Evening Lights: 4 X 3W
Moon Lights: 2 X 1W

Livestock: Trachyphylia, Green Star Polyps, Colt, Kenya tree, Trumpets, Torch, snails, hermit crabs, conch.

I do water changes once a week. I started dosing PurpleUp and Coralvite about two weeks ago. I added a Koralia nano last week (240gph), and the stock return pumps (on a wavemaker) each have a total output of 266gph. As for filtration, I have about 30 pounds of live rock and a three chamber filter box that came with the tank (Prefilter, carbon, and ceramic biorings). Instead of carbon I now run chemipure, changed out about once every month. I do not have a skimmer, although one has been ordered for me, it just hasn't come in yet. I don't know why my tank is such a mess. Can anyone help?

SushiGirl
08/19/2012, 12:02 AM
Stop dosing stuff & what & how much are you feeding the corals?

kga943
08/19/2012, 06:06 AM
stop feeding the tank cut your lights back to 7 to 8 hrs a day and you can just leave them off for a couple days and if you don't have a phosban reactor i would get one

coral_addict
08/19/2012, 08:23 AM
Feeding Rod's food, but hardly any. Lights are at 8 hours already, I tried cutting them back and that's when the brain bleached. I have 0 phosphates, what will a Phosban reactor do?

coral_addict
08/19/2012, 08:24 AM
Oh and I didn't start dosing anything until waaaay after the problems started.

Steve175
08/19/2012, 09:01 AM
What are your Ca, Alk and Mg levels?

kfisc
08/19/2012, 09:16 AM
Hopefully not too obvious a question, but do the blocks in your RO/DI unit need changed? All of the problems you describe point right back to water quality; a reactor with a GFO media or the like (phosban, etc.) can help, but won't tackle the root problem.

coral_addict
08/19/2012, 09:19 AM
Alkalinity was 9dKH (I think). I have never checked for calcium or magnesium, when I go in to my LFS today I'm bringing a water sample for a more accurate check. I get all my RO water from my LFS, never had a problem with it. My dad uses the same water and his tank looks fine. But I don't think a reactor will do a whole lot of good. I don't have any phosphates, and barely any nitrates

rrasco
08/19/2012, 09:33 AM
If you have algae, you have phosphates. Just because the reading is at 0 does not mean they are not there. The algae is keeping the levels down and preventing you from getting an accurate reading.

You should definitely check your Ca, Alk, and Mg to see where they are. That's kind if important. What LFS do you go to?

coral_addict
08/19/2012, 09:51 AM
Ok, I'll look into a PhosBan reactor then... I work at Aquarium Designs, in San Antonio. Oh! And I forgot to mention, for feeding, I feed my torch NLS pellets, just a couple. It really seems to go for that.

EllieSuz
08/19/2012, 10:04 AM
I have read a lot of threads dealing with bad water quality from LFS purchased RO/DI. Get or borrow a TDS meter and test their water. Not saying it's their fault, but certainly worth a try and not an unusual situation.

rrasco
08/19/2012, 10:10 AM
Ok, I'll look into a PhosBan reactor then... I work at Aquarium Designs, in San Antonio. Oh! And I forgot to mention, for feeding, I feed my torch NLS pellets, just a couple. It really seems to go for that.

I know where AD is, never been there though.

coral_addict
08/19/2012, 07:35 PM
Ca: >600 mg/L
dKH: 11
Specific Gravity: 1.025

Just tested those today, but my LFS doesn't have a test for Magnesium

coral_addict
08/19/2012, 07:58 PM
I'm almost positive the water there is good. I work there, and my dad uses the same water I do, and he's never had a problem. We test our TDS pretty often, to show customers and stuff that our water is good.

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 07:24 AM
Oh! And my pH is 8.3.

HV1990
08/20/2012, 07:46 AM
Lets look at what is feeding your cyano and algea. Cyano becomes present when your phosphates are higher than your nitrates. Try to tackle that first with GFO. Now for your Nitrates do manual removal of any algea when doing a water change.

I did want to mention when you start dosing any item it may contain phosphates as well. This in turn will increase the amount of cyano. I would just get back to basics and add a GFO reactor. When adding a GFO reactor go slow as to not shock your system more than it is.

Also are you stirring your sand bed when doing water changes?

Last thing I would suggest is to ditch the ceramic media and place something more usefull like carbon.

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 08:44 AM
I was thinking about putting in a Polyfilter and getting rid of the ceramic tiles like you say. My question about a Phosban reactor is how would it fit in my tank? I have no sump (The tank is all self contained) and I've never had experience with any kind of reactor before. Where would I put it? I don't stir the sand when I do water changes, but I do remove as much algae as I can. As for phosphates, they're testing as 0, so unless they're all just stored in the cyano and hair algae, I don't have any. So anyhow, yeah, how does a GFO or Phosban reactor work? Those are the same thing right?

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 09:40 AM
Also, I forgot to mention this, there was a fairly large window that let in a lot of sunlight every morning directly across from my tank. I covered it up a few weeks ago, now almost no light gets through it, but there was very little change in the tank. I thought that was the problem, but it doesn't seem like it helped very much...

HV1990
08/20/2012, 09:51 AM
The phosban reactor is just the container to hold media. When I had my JBJ I just put another maxijet in one of the containers. Most reactors have a lip that is used to hang on the back of a sump or the tank.

You are correct that the phophates are being used up at faster rate than you can take. That is why there is the two stage approach of manual removal and chemical removal. Remember that there are different types of phosphates and our test kits only measure one type.

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 10:21 AM
That's always confused me. How can there be two types of Phosphate? Phosphate is an ion, PO4 3+. Unless everyone is referring to phoshite, PO3 3+. Or if the phosphate is combined with something? I've never understood what everyone means when they say there's more than one type of phosphate. And my tank doesn't have any room behind it for a reactor, so you're saying you can put the media in the back of my tank? Would that work the same? Like could I replace the ceramic with a phosphate remover?

rrasco
08/20/2012, 10:32 AM
You can put it wherever you can contain it and it gets good flow through it. A HOB, canister, reactor; the choice is up to you how you run water through it. Having said that, reactors work the best.

disc1
08/20/2012, 10:33 AM
There's inorganic phosphate PO4 3- and then there's organic phosphate which is where it is linked to an organic molecule. Examples would be DNA or phospholipids.

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 10:51 AM
Well the tank is up against the wall. There's maybe three inches in the back of the tank (where the filter is) and then there's another two inches or so behind the tank. Would I have room for a reactor?

Thanks Disc. What does the test test for?

sslak
08/20/2012, 11:34 AM
Your salinity should be 1.025 or 1.026

1.023 may work for fish, but it's not ideal for corals.

disc1
08/20/2012, 11:53 AM
The tests only pick out the inorganic phosphate.

coralsnaked
08/20/2012, 12:54 PM
The key to nano tanks is pristine h2o

If you have algea you have phosphares and nitrates even if your testing does not recognize them. IE ghost readings when algea consumes the organics prioe to readings.

You need to run three items in your JBJ 28. I have these all over my house and run them all the same. Middle compartment Run sponge on tiop and double carbon in 2nd and 3rd tray. If you cannot run a reactor in your tank and want to keep it all intank you can utilize two powerheads in main tank area (450-500 gal/hour on your wavemaker that came w/ system). Then plug one circulation pump in to run continuosly for filtration. The other pump you pull the pump line off the nozzle, One the nozzle elbow hang a Purigen bag off and it will act as an overflow into the bag. Place a U hanger on the pump line and hang over side of pump compartmnent into heater box if empty, here you hang a PhosGuard product which works better in a bag than say Phosban. Now you are running a sponge double carbon Purigen and PhosGuard. Change Purigen 2 TBSP every 5 days and PosGuard 1/4 cup changed every five days until Phosphates reach lower than .2. . Do not rely on your in home tests for this. Utilize your LFS that does the larger sample tests. Now you have also doubled your water circulation w/ the power head and the return pump. This will help stir up any Detritus on your floor and rocks, so be preparexd to clean sponges daily. Also the bags made for these products are so fine they also act as a filter like the sponge. And I would run at leat the JBJ 28G skimmer that fits right in the skimmer compartment. And pick out all that hair algea, or scrub it with a stiff plastic brush. These are all easy fairly inexpensive things you can do to clean up your water. Couple these with a 15 /15 each N snail and red legged Hermit CUC throw in 2 Mexican turbo snails and keep up w/ your water changes and you WILL get in control of your tank. Reefing is a challenge thank God.

Happy Reefing

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 01:51 PM
My Specific Gravity is 1.025, the first reading was false because of an innacurate hydrometer. I'll try that Coralsnaked, thanks for the advice! On another note, does anyone have the lighting system that I have, and if so, what coral have you successfully kept in it?

coral_addict
08/20/2012, 08:05 PM
Coralsnaked, can you show me a picture of what you're talking about, specifically the purigen bag and the U hanger?

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 08:41 AM
So I guess my calcium was really high? And is 11 a good Alkalinity? Also, I'm really curious, if anyone else has this tank, how do you run the powerhead cords into a plug? Because the way I have mine set up, the hood doesn't fit evenly onto the tank because it's resting on a cord on one side. Is there an easier way to do this?

rrasco
08/21/2012, 09:18 AM
Well, I think mg/l = ppm, so if that's true your Ca is over 600. Yeah, I'd say that is a little high. Have you gotten any precipitation in the tank?

I don't think Alk at 11 is worrisome, but it's higher than I would keep mine. I think with your Ca high your Alk is going to be high too, but I'm still trying to figure out a lot of this reef chemistry stuff so maybe someone else can comment on that.

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 12:51 PM
Yeah basically I did the test and my boss said if it went over 30 drops I had to stop. It went over thirty. So I really don't know how high it actually is, just that it's over 600. I think it will go down over time though, since I've stopped dosing. It sounds like a phosban reactor or at least media and purigen is the way to go though, so now I gotta do that. I wonder where the phosphates are coming from though... Must be from feeding. Does anyone know how much phosphate is in Rod's Food?

rrasco
08/21/2012, 01:10 PM
If my Ca was at 600 I'd be doing water changes to lower it. It should be like 380-450.

PurpleUp has Ca in it, how much were you dosing and how often? Coralvite also has some Ca, but I don't think too much.

Did your tank ever precipitate?

SushiGirl
08/21/2012, 01:43 PM
Here's an article on phosphates & food (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry?utm_source=nivoslider&utm_medium=slider&utm_campaign=clickthru).

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 02:28 PM
No precipitation, I'll keep doing water changes and I'm not dosing any more. I was dosing about half a cap every other day or so, and the coralvite maybe once or twice a week, the same amount or less. Really not very much, but I'd just dosed both the night before I took the test. Annnd it's always possible I did the test wrong... It was the first calcium test I'd done.

rrasco
08/21/2012, 02:31 PM
Definitely do another test. You need to know what your levels are.

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 02:54 PM
I'll do another one at the end of the week (when I work next). And I'll have someone else do the test, someone who knows what they're doing. But it makes sense that my levels are so high, since the alkalinity is high too.
Oh, and thank you for the link, reading it now :) Thanks everyone for all the responses!

rrasco
08/21/2012, 02:56 PM
I'm assuming you live close to AD. I'd offer to do a water test for you if you're close by. I'm sure there are plenty of people on MAAST that will help you as well, maybe someone closer to you than me.

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 03:35 PM
I live in Cibolo, about a half hour's drive from AD, in between San Antonio and New Braunfels. It's a long drive to work every day haha

rrasco
08/21/2012, 03:37 PM
I think there is a MAAST member or two in Cibolo. You should check it out and someone may be able to help. I'm pretty far from you, I'm near Helotes.

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 03:54 PM
I'll see if I can find someone. If not I'll just pay the three bucks for a calcium test on Friday. I'm not a member on MAAST though, I should probably join huh?

On a different subject, I was wondering if my trachy could have bleached from excess light? It's on the bottom of my tank right now, about 15 inches or so from the lights, but they're pretty strong. Thoughts?

rrasco
08/21/2012, 03:56 PM
You can be a web member for free. It's $25 to charter up for the year. I guarantee you plenty of people will be there to help. I only say that because I know of said people. Definitely a resource you need if you're in this area. RC is great, but nothing beats local people on hand willing to help.

I don't know anything about Trachy so I can't offer anything up for that.

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 03:59 PM
Well thanks for the advice :) I guess I'll join MAAST, hopefully I can find someone to help. The cyano is back today, just as bad in the sand and on the rocks as before, but now there's significantly less brown algae on the back of the tank. Maybe all these water changes are starting to have an effect?

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 07:41 PM
I finished reading that article on Food and Phosphates, very interesting. I basically stopped feeding completely, so we'll see how much that helps. Although it is worth noting that if you're adding .0005 ppm of phosphate into the tank every day, over the period of a week you're adding .0035 ppm, and so on. Which isn't much, but over the long run it IS a source of phosphate, albeit minor. But it was intriguing to find out just how much phosphate fish foods have, thank you Sushi Girl :)

coral_addict
08/21/2012, 07:42 PM
To clarify, I'm talking about adding .0005 ppm phosphate through "bad" RO water haha

coral_addict
08/24/2012, 07:47 AM
I'm really concerned about my trachy :/ I don't want it to die! Can anyone give me advice on how to save it???????