Ich in 14 hours?

[JeffSauer]

Picked up a Purple Tang (now the most expensive fish I own) and a Foxface from my LFS on Friday. Got home and set up my 10g QT and got them situated. Fed them that night and they gobbled everything up no problem. Same thing on Saturday and Sunday, ate everything I gave them twice a day and they seemed to be doing very well with no problems to speak of.

I leave for work every morning around 5:30am and I’m usually not home until around 6:30-7:00 every night. Well I got a text from my wife around noon telling me when she went in to feed them the tang was covered in "white spots" (keep in mind my wife cares nothing for the hobby and sees it as more of decor than anything else). Thinking it was just the usual 3 day ich problem I put it from my mind and planned on starting my copper treatment when I got home.

To my dismay she didn’t really explain the severity of the problem. I’ve never seen this severity of ich pop up this quickly before on a fish. I ran my usual tests to make sure what I was dealing with (i.e. try to feed, dip a net in to see if they would try to evade, and check my parameters)
-tang wouldn’t even look at the food
-pretty much didn’t move when I tried to scoop him up with my net
-water parameters were perfect

So here’s what I did last night at 8:00pm:
-scooped faxface out and placed in bag (he’s fine btw, ate all the food-piggy)
-filled small jug with RO and netted tang and placed tang in RO Dip
-takes me about 60 seconds to drain QT and refill with new water
-put fish back in QT not introducing old water
-adjusted temp in QT (sitting at 81° firm)
-copper dosed

Checked this morning and it looks like things only got worse, ich had spread, he is settling in the bottom corner of the tank at 45°…and sense I couldn’t hang around and had to go to work, I just did my morning dose and left. From what I’ve seen from fish dyeing of ich in the past I won’t be surprised if he will be dead by the time I get home, and if not by tomorrow.

It just bums me out because I’ve never seen ich spread this fast on a fish before, lethargic attitude producing so quickly, and loss of appetite virtually overnight. And regardless of how heartless this sounds I don’t think I would care this much about the situation if this wasn’t a $150 fish.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what I can do? My LFS has a 3 day policy and have never had any problems before with a fish that wasn’t “my fault”. I understand that it’s not my LFS fault, I bought him from them and took him home as they were acclimating him from their supplier (needed to sick my teeth in cause purple tangs don’t last very long here in stores)

[b0bab0ey]

Could be Velvet, which is a fast killer and can resemble Ich.

Also, not trying to start anything with you here, but I wouldn't have QT'd a Purple Tang and a Foxface in only a 10gal.

[JeffSauer]

Could be Velvet, which is a fast killer and can resemble Ich.

Also, not trying to start anything with you here, but I wouldn't have QT'd a Purple Tang and a Foxface in only a 10gal.

Yeah i read about velvet but it hasn't gotten "that" bad yet.

As far as my QT, these are really the only fish that i have in there that would require a bigger tank than the 10 i have. I have full intentions of buying a 29g QT for future use. Its just easier for right now sense i have to buy my SW from my LFS.

[b0bab0ey]

Yeah i read about velvet but it hasn't gotten "that" bad yet.

Whether it's Ich or Velvet, the good news is that copper treats both. Are you using Cupramine or Coppersafe? Have you gotten your copper level up to the minimum treatment levels yet? 0.4 ppm for Cupramine, 1.5 ppm for Coppersafe.

[h2so4hurts]

I'd dip in ridich plus for instant relief. But that's just me :) FW dips never worked for me in the past.

A 10g really does seem very small for two fish. I hesitate to put more than one in a 30 gallon long at a time. The QT period can be very stressful and having isolated fish can make all the difference.

[stingythingy45]

Is there any reason you had the temp. at 81 degrees?
What kind of filter are you running on there?
I ask because warm water holds less O2.

[JeffSauer]

Whether it's Ich or Velvet, the good news is that copper treats both. Are you using Cupramine or Coppersafe? Have you gotten your copper level up to the minimum treatment levels yet? 0.4 ppm for Cupramine, 1.5 ppm for Coppersafe.

I’m using Seachem Cupramine right now, and I haven’t gotten the dosage up to recommended levels yet, keep in mind I found this out last night.

I'd dip in ridich plus for instant relief. But that's just me :) FW dips never worked for me in the past.

A 10g really does seem very small for two fish. I hesitate to put more than one in a 30 gallon long at a time. The QT period can be very stressful and having isolated fish can make all the difference.

I’ve used freshwater dips in the past and have had a lot of luck, I’ve only read about ridich before and talked to people who have used it before so I can’t say I have any personal experience with the chemical.

Is there any reason you had the temp. at 81 degrees?
What kind of filter are you running on there?
I ask because warm water holds less O2.

I have the temp up right now cause it helps with controlling the new populations of ich “spores”. And I’ve had luck with it in the past, it’s almost like sweating out a sickness…it can kind of suck for the fish but it takes less time and helps with deterring ich issues in the future, kind of like building your immune system. I’m running a standard marineland tank filter with just the filterpads right now, and change out the pad every other day and throw them away (another LFS I go to sells them for 10 cents each so I just buy 100 of them and just throw away the used ones) and I think I have enough waterflow in the system so that I don’t “think” o2 is really an issue.


If the tang isnt dead when i get home ill take a quick picture of it and post

[JeffSauer]

GOOD NEWS! The wife just sent me a picture of the tang and its still swimming around! During my lunch break i went out and bought a vial of Kent Garlic Xtreme, i did a little reading and i understand that although its not good over long term use, i can use it to make him eat something until this ich problem goes away. I read the thread about garlic use and read up on the pros and cons...this is just a temporary fix just to keep him eating and alive until the problems goes away

[MrTuskfish]

Garlic will do absolutely nothing to eliminate ich on your fish; except possibly give false hopes and delay real treatment. This is a huge myth that just won't die. You won't find any resource, other than anecdotal stories, that garlic cures anything. Garlic MAY be an appetite stimulant, which may help with immunity. However, even if these claims are true, this is a long-term process.
FW dips do nothing for ich either; the parasite is buried too deep and is protected by the fish from the shock of the zero SG of the dip water. FW dips can give some relief for velvet, though.

[cngreg]

I'm curious about the effectiveness of FW dip or ridich. While they clearly won't eliminate the disease, in this case knocking back the feeding stage would be ideal. I'd weigh the benefit of doing these vs the stress on the fish based on what percentage of the parasites you could clear. If you could consistantly knowck of 80 percent of the parasites...i'd think the benefits outweight the stress. H2SO4, have you knocked back heavy parasite burdens? Tusk, are you saying fw dip doesn't do anything or doesn't clear the infection completely?

[b0bab0ey]

I’m using Seachem Cupramine right now, and I haven’t gotten the dosage up to recommended levels yet, keep in mind I found this out last night.

I would get the Cu up to at least 0.35 in the next day or so. Don't get sucked into a false sense of security with the f/w dips, garlic, etc.

[JeffSauer]

fair enough guys and i "KNOW" garlic wont help with ich treatment...i've just had good experience with garlic with getting the fish to eat during treatment. A kid might not like veggies but if you dip them in chocolate they will eat it and a fish eating garlic dosed flakes and nori is better than a fish not eating anything.

b0baboey - yeah i plan on doing my secondary dosage tonight to get my cu level where it needs to be. it would have been better if fishy got sick on friday night so i would have the weekend to fix what was wrong and give the attention i need to.

[MrTuskfish]

I'm curious about the effectiveness of FW dip or ridich. While they clearly won't eliminate the disease, in this case knocking back the feeding stage would be ideal. I'd weigh the benefit of doing these vs the stress on the fish based on what percentage of the parasites you could clear. If you could consistantly knowck of 80 percent of the parasites...i'd think the benefits outweight the stress. H2SO4, have you knocked back heavy parasite burdens? Tusk, are you saying fw dip doesn't do anything or doesn't clear the infection completely?

I'm saying that FW dips do next to nothing, or nothing at all. Ich parasites are not the visible "whitespot"; the parasite is buried under the skin and the SG of a FW dip can't touch them. Velvet parasites are on the surface of the fish, so FW dips help. I'm not really concerned about partial cures, ich multiplies in huge numbers. I think only a 100% kill is essential for eliminating ich. Some folks are content to live with low levels of ich; I think this is a huge mistake and always leads to a major problem.