View Full Version : Electrical current in fish tank w/ ground probe?
Slickcg33
09/26/2012, 09:49 AM
So here is my dilemma...
I just recently purchased a new ground probe for my fish tank because I didn’t think the old one was doing its job (its old corroded and I was getting a stray shock anytime I stuck my hand in the tank).
I plugged the new probe in to a ground outlet and then my tank and I’m still feeling a slight stray electric volt.
Now hers the kicker, when I unplug the ground probe and stick my hand in the tank I don’t feel the electricity.
I took that even further and put a wet piece of towel under my feet which usually results in a huge shock but I can’t feel any electricity what so ever (when the ground probe is unplugged).
Can anyone explain that to me?
Slickcg33
09/26/2012, 05:07 PM
Ttt
mcgyvr
09/26/2012, 05:18 PM
<.sarcasm> you sir are a genius... <./sarcasm>
the consensus is that without a ground probe the "induced voltage" in your tank just remained "static". By adding a ground probe you gave that "static" voltage a path to ground and hence caused current to flow.
joekidwell
09/26/2012, 05:18 PM
That's pretty hardcore putting a wet paper towel on the floor lol. I don't uses any grounds in my tank so I really couldn't say though if it dosent shock you with it out, why not leave it out? Or do a process of elimination by unplugging everything in you're tank one at a time till the volt stops then replace that item.
mcgyvr
09/26/2012, 05:24 PM
That's pretty hardcore putting a wet paper towel on the floor lol. I don't uses any grounds in my tank so I really couldn't say though if it dosent shock you with it out, why not leave it out? Or do a process of elimination by unplugging everything in you're tank one at a time till the volt stops then replace that item.
"hardcore" is not a word I would have used..
Slickcg33
09/26/2012, 05:27 PM
Thanks for the replies lol. @MCGYVR. So does the static Affect the fish and corals? Should I leave the ground probe out? Does it matter.
mcgyvr
09/26/2012, 05:34 PM
Thanks for the replies lol. @MCGYVR. So does the static Affect the fish and corals? Should I leave the ground probe out? Does it matter.
:lol2: personally I run a ground probe (with GFCI outlets).
The consensus is that without a ground probe the induced voltage does not effect the fish/corals.
You do have a GFCI outlet or breaker protecting all your tanks equipment right?..and you have pressed the test button to ensure its still functioning right?
Paris_Wiley
09/26/2012, 05:34 PM
Wow, not to be an alarmist, but you really should be very careful with electricity around a fish tank in my opinion. If you feel any electrical voltage at all I personally would not put my hands back into the tank until the issue was resolved (including experimenting). Nothing in the tank is worth dying over. With that said, I would 1) have a ground fault circuit interruption (GFCI) outlet installed to help assure you cannot electrocute yourself, and 2) get an inexpensive voltmeter from a local hardware store and measure the potential from the tank to the ground terminal of your outlet as you one-by-one plug in the equipment in your tank. This should help you determine which item is inducing the voltage that you are feeling. I would then replace that item.
Slickcg33
09/26/2012, 05:46 PM
:lol2: personally I run a ground probe (with GFCI outlets).
The consensus is that without a ground probe the induced voltage does not effect the fish/corals.
You do have a GFCI outlet or breaker protecting all your tanks equipment right?..and you have pressed the test button to ensure its still functioning right?
I have two surge protectors, one with a timer which connects my lights and one just a standard Walmart surge protector. They've seen a fair amout of salt water spills over the years.
Perhaps it's time for new ones ;)
I'm not sure what GFCI stands for...
So if the static electric voltage in the tank doesn't affect fish or corals what are scenerieo where one would use a ground probe?
BrentB6
09/26/2012, 06:48 PM
While standing on the wet towel..........did you put your hand in slowly with a "wincing" look on your face, or did you do the fast "finger jab" into the water. Crazy stuff.....Crazy
mcgyvr
09/26/2012, 07:35 PM
omg.. slick you really are stupid..no joking aside. (sorry moderators but this one deserves it)
You have NO business even touching another wire in your house. You sir are LUCKY you are alive. Go hug your mommy or wife or whatever NOW. And PLEASE stop putting your damn arms or any body part in the tank.. Again NOT joking.. This IS serious.
A GFCI outlet senses the current in both sides (hot and neutral) of an outlet if the current differs in any side by more than like 5mA (a limit considered to not cause damage to humans) the device "trips" protecting the human from being shocked. The current imbalance can come from YOU being part of the circuit and stealing current from one side of the circuit to ground and being shocked. Without this GFCI outlet there is a MUCH..MUCH larger potential for a human being seriously shocked and even killed. Haven't you ever heard about dropping a hair dryer in the bathtub or standing in a puddle (or wet paper towel) and people being KILLED. Clearly you have but come on..
You should REALLY.. no..MUST unplug your tank and all equipment from the wall and call an electrician ASAP to install a GFCI outlet at that location or to install a GFCI breaker on that branch circuit.
At the very least go to home depot NOW and buy a power strip or "power block" that says it has GFCI protection..not surge..not AFCI..it must say GFCI.. It will have a test and reset button on it. Most buy a GFCI outlet and replace the current wall outlet with it.. You should not attempt this.. No sense in tempting fate twice.
And DO NOT put the ground probe back in the tank either.. IF one is used it MUST be used with GFCI protection. NO IFS ANS OR BUTS.
power boat jim
09/26/2012, 07:40 PM
I have two surge protectors, one with a timer which connects my lights and one just a standard Walmart surge protector. They've seen a fair amout of salt water spills over the years.
Perhaps it's time for new ones ;)
I'm not sure what GFCI stands for...
So if the static electric voltage in the tank doesn't affect fish or corals what are scenerieo where one would use a ground probe?
If you are unfamiliar with the basics of electrcity and wish to survive your experience with this tank please plug ALL electrical devices you are using into a GFCI or ground fault circuit interruptor before you put any part of youself in contact with the tank water. Do not use a surge protector,it wont protect you from anything. It protects electical equipment from electrical surges. GFCIs are available at any home improvement store and are not expensive. With a GFCI a ground probe is not a neccessity at this point.
PLEASE BE CAREFUL.
Slickcg33
09/26/2012, 07:53 PM
omg.. slick you really are stupid..no joking aside. (sorry moderators but this one deserves it)
You have NO business even touching another wire in your house. You sir are LUCKY you are alive. Go hug your mommy or wife or whatever NOW. And PLEASE stop putting your damn arms or any body part in the tank.. Again NOT joking.. This IS serious.
A GFCI outlet senses the current in both sides (hot and neutral) of an outlet if the current differs in any side by more than like 5mA (a limit considered to not cause damage to humans) the device "trips" protecting the human from being shocked. The current imbalance can come from YOU being part of the circuit and stealing current from one side of the circuit to ground and being shocked. Without this GFCI outlet there is a MUCH..MUCH larger potential for a human being seriously shocked and even killed. Haven't you ever heard about dropping a hair dryer in the bathtub or standing in a puddle (or wet paper towel) and people being KILLED. Clearly you have but come on..
You should REALLY.. no..MUST unplug your tank and all equipment from the wall and call an electrician ASAP to install a GFCI outlet at that location or to install a GFCI breaker on that branch circuit.
At the very least go to home depot NOW and buy a power strip or "power block" that says it has GFCI protection..not surge..not AFCI..it must say GFCI.. It will have a test and reset button on it. Most buy a GFCI outlet and replace the current wall outlet with it.. You should not attempt this.. No sense in tempting fate twice.
And DO NOT put the ground probe back in the tank either.. IF one is used it MUST be used with GFCI protection. NO IFS ANS OR BUTS.
I know your post was serious but I couldn't help but lol, more at my stupidity then anything else. Thank you for your informative response. Because of you I am now slightly "less stupid" then I was before ;)
Any other information you can post a out GFCI would be appreciated. How does it work once installed and how do I test, .... safely ;)
Outrigger Reef
09/26/2012, 07:59 PM
Sounds to me that the outlet that you are plugin the probe in is not grounded.
Do not plug it back in and keep your hands out of the tank until you have a electrician look at that outlet and install an gfci.
Gfci will only work if there is a ground.
staindsoul
09/26/2012, 08:05 PM
Sounds to me that the outlet that you are plugin the probe in is not grounded.
Do not plug it back in and keep your hands out of the tank until you have a electrician look at that outlet and install an gfci.
Gfci will only work if there is a ground.
False, gfcis have a current sensor on the ungrounded and nuetral conductor. When those two become unbalanced, ie current leaks to anywhere but the return path, it has a shunt trip that trips the circuit.
They even are provided with a sticker if you replace a receptacle (that has no grounding conductor)with a gfci recptacle that you can place on the front stating there is no grounding conductor.
Random site with explanation: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/gfci.html
Edit, Op: take the ground probe out, put a gfi in, wether it is a strip style or wall socket style, have someone knowledgable help you out. Then take a meter reading on your tank, to verify you are ok. Then read up and decide if you want to also use the ground probe. Don't keep doing random stuff like this. Gfi's have a test button on them typically, so that would all you will need to test it.
KafudaFish
09/27/2012, 07:40 AM
While standing on the wet towel..........did you put your hand in slowly with a "wincing" look on your face, or did you do the fast "finger jab" into the water. Crazy stuff.....Crazy
You joined almost 11 years ago and this was your first post?
Brilliant.
Have a :beer:
sirreal63
09/27/2012, 08:09 AM
11 years and the first post...the ultimate lurker.
I cannot say what my head is wanting to say about the utter ignorance in this thread, but it reminds me what my Dad used to like to say, sense is never common. We always want our children to be smarter than we are, good job on setting the bar really low. :D
Edit...I hope you use this an an opportunity to educate yourself on electricity and saltwater, or even electricity in general. Consider yourself a very luck person.
aandfsoccr04
09/27/2012, 10:05 AM
:lol:
This thread is full of win.
staindsoul
09/27/2012, 10:26 AM
brent should get a award.
alton
09/27/2012, 12:08 PM
If your electric service has a poor ground or does not have one at all it will use your aquarium as a grounding means. Also if your sub panel has the grounds(bare wires) and grounded wires( white) tied onto the same bar this could also cause this issue.
Reeferz412
09/27/2012, 12:12 PM
What a "shocking" learning experience.
jerpa
09/27/2012, 12:24 PM
brent should get a award.
The OP almost got one as well...
:thumbsup:
2hands
09/27/2012, 11:07 PM
If your electric service has a poor ground or does not have one at all it will use your aquarium as a grounding means. Also if your sub panel has the grounds(bare wires) and grounded wires( white) tied onto the same bar this could also cause this issue.
I am inclined to agree with alton. Your problem is probably in your house electrical and not in your tank. You have current going to your gound outlet all the time and your house is not well grounded. Something somewhere is putting current into your ground wire. Most probably some outlet or appliance is wired incorrectly or leaking from your neutral to your ground. It is most likely on the same circuit as your tank.
staindsoul
10/01/2012, 06:30 PM
Without op doing some meter reading of voltage and current, nothing could be resolved. Op do you have a meter or a buddy who can help you out?
Outrigger Reef
10/01/2012, 08:02 PM
False, gfcis have a current sensor on the ungrounded and nuetral conductor. When those two become unbalanced, ie current leaks to anywhere but the return path, it has a shunt trip that trips the circuit.
They even are provided with a sticker if you replace a receptacle (that has no grounding conductor)with a gfci recptacle that you can place on the front stating there is no grounding conductor.
Random site with explanation: http://www.epanorama.net/documents/wiring/gfci.html
Edit, Op: take the ground probe out, put a gfi in, wether it is a strip style or wall socket style, have someone knowledgable help you out. Then take a meter reading on your tank, to verify you are ok. Then read up and decide if you want to also use the ground probe. Don't keep doing random stuff like this. Gfi's have a test button on them typically, so that would all you will need to test it.
Tell somebody a ground wire isn't needed isn't the best advice, gfci or not.
staindsoul
10/01/2012, 08:17 PM
I never said it wasn't necessary, but the misconception about a gfci needing a grounding conductor to operate is just as bad, if someone skips using it because their house is old enough not to have a grounding conductor.
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