Very Low PH

[darkiss]

Hello I have a new tank setup with salt levels around 1.024-1.025 but my PH is around 7.5

I used water from my sink, so perhaps if I used RO water this would not be an issue?

I also have 30 pounds of live rock in the tank with live sand, i thought that all of that would bring up the PH to around 8. I just put in the live rock a day or two ago.


Any help I would be thankful for.

[Sugar Magnolia]

I wouldn't worry about pH in a brand new set up. The tank needs to cycle, and while cycling the pH tends to swing a lot. Test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate during your cycle.

Also, be sure to read through the stickies at the top of this forum.

[welcome]

[darkiss]

Great thank you for the welcome gif and information.


How long do you think I should wait until I start to worry about the PH not balancing out properly?

So because I have 30pounds of live rock in a 29gallon tank with live sand the ph will automatically rise to around 8 ph no matter the quality of my tap water?

[Pete H.]

So because I have 30pounds of live rock in a 29gallon tank with live sand the ph will automatically rise to around 8 ph no matter the quality of my tap water?

I would recommend not using tap water in your saltwater tank. It will cause lots of problems with nuance algae and possibly add contaminants that will affect fish and coral. The biggest problem is that the rock will absorb alot of these water contaminents. So, even if you switch to RO/DI water, you have months of contaminents leaching back out causing problems. It makes for a large headache down the road.

[darkiss]

Pete H.

Looks like we are in the same state, where I am in the capital.

So I just bought a RO water system and it will be here in 5days. You suggest that I drain the tank and then start this all over again?

Before I had ciclids and I would simply add in Baking Soda with a bit of salt to raise the PH to the proper levels.

[disc1]

Same thing with salt water. Buffer it up with baking soda.

Drain it and use ro isn't a bad idea but it is likely that the rocks have already absorbed things from the tap water that will give you problems down the road.

[jg93]

IMO you don't want to chase Ph with anything. Just my experience. I noticed mine was about 7.6 at night (7.9 day) because I had my house closed up with A/C running all day. I left the A/C off, openend the windows and the Ph climbed all on it's own. I still leave my place shut during the peak of the summer, the tank is just fine. I do think it slows growth a bit though.

+1 on the RO water. I used tap for years, it was an algae nightmare compared to my 100% RO/DI now.

[darkiss]

Great thank you all for so many replies it is more than I could have asked for.

Thanks for the concern about not using RO water as I already have the equipment coming and it will be here soonish, so that I can switch.



I have been reading past posts about this same issue as well and it looks like several users have asked others to read http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.php . So I read it as well and looks like PH is related to alkalinity and amount of co2.

After reading the starting paragraphs and on into the bottom I read that it could just be my tank cycling due to it being about two weeks old, when live rock was only added in two days ago.


I am a bit scared to add in Baking Soda right away to balance things out, since I am not sure how long this cycling part might take.

Tonight I will take a cup of the tank water and place it outside with an air stone for 1hr and see if the ph changes to a different color.

From reading that webpage alkalinity and co2 must be balanced or you will have a low ph. Even though I am not sure why the baking soda will raise the ph of the water I do know that I used it for ciclids and it has worked to raise the water of the tank ( as long as there was salt in the talk with the baking soda or it would quickly raise it and then lower it )



So, right now I am going to try this outside water test. Then if that does not work, I will slowly raise the ph of the water by using baking soda? or should I just wait a more days to see if the tank auto balances out?

[darkiss]

Okay I see.

alkalinity is not my salt levels and when I do add baking soda to the water, baking soda will raise my alkalinity.

Makes sense now. I think I will buy an alkalinity test kit to see if my levels are off then properly adjust for it using baking soda

[darkiss]

Looks like it could be the recommended choice of salt that the fish store owner suggested as well

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_4/v4i3/salt/salt.htm

[darkiss]

My alkalinity was low at 120.

I did not want to use baking soda since when I used it on cichlids it left a strange residue, perhaps not even due to it but could have been, and i did not want to be cheap on this.

I talked to one of the fish store owners about raising the alkalinity of the tank and he suggested to use reef fusion part 1 and part 2 in order to balance the alkalinity.

The Reef Fusion two part was started tonight and hopefully in a few days the alkalinity will increase thus increasing the ph of the tank.


There should be more than enough air exchange going on, several windows have been open though out this nice weather we have been having,

[simpp88]

You are right by switching to RO/DI, I would drain what I could and start over with fresh salt and RO/DI water. I doubt that you will have a problem with anything leaching out of rocks in the future. Try to keep things simple though. Let your tank cycle, be patient, don't worry about your pH for now. When you can, get your Mg up to 1300, then use the calculators on the BRS site to use two part and get your alk and Ca up to snuff. Once you are there you will be happy with your results and pH will be perfect.

[kurt_n]

As was mentioned earlier, don't worry about adding anything at this point. You probably even haven't starting cycling yet (tested for ammonia yet?) and during the cycle your pH will be all over the place. And at the end of your cycle, you're going to want to do a monster water change to get rid of all the nitrates. And all those additives your LFS sold you will be poured right down the drain with your water change.

The stuff your LFS sold you was a 2-part calcium/alkalinity solution. You do NOT need it until your tank/corals starts consuming calcium and alkalinity. Once your tank cycles and stabilizes, assuming you're using a decent commercial salt mix, your pH will more than likely be fine. I would also be a little leery of a LFS that sold you a 2-part solution if they knew your tank was cycling.

[darkiss]

Yes I am almost positive it has already cycled, since I did see the tank get very milky one day then in a few days later it became clear and has been like that since.

Salt is Oceanic, so I believe that it might be high in calacum and lacking alkalinity in order to keep my ph up.

RO water, I kind of messed that one up, since I just used tap water, but all future water changes I will just use RO water once I get the RO water machine.

I am not a pro and I am trying my best and I will succeed at this

[andy2966]

I set up my 90 gallon tank using tap water from the garden hose. Since then I have been using RO/DI water and my Phosphates are slowly going down. I still have problems with Cyno bacteria from using tap water. But over time everything will be fine. I would not worry about your PH it will stabilize once your tank is cycled. Just because your water went from milky to clear does not mean that it has cycled. You need to teast for ammonia and nitrite and once those go to 0 . Check your Nitrates.. Then you should be cycled. With live rock it could be pretty fast. 1-2 weeks

[andy2966]

How long has your tank been running?

[darkiss]

Thanks for the replies.

The tank has been running for about 2weeks.

nitrite/nitries are at zero now.

[disc1]

My alkalinity was low at 120.

I did not want to use baking soda since when I used it on cichlids it left a strange residue, perhaps not even due to it but could have been, and i did not want to be cheap on this.

I talked to one of the fish store owners about raising the alkalinity of the tank and he suggested to use reef fusion part 1 and part 2 in order to balance the alkalinity.

The Reef Fusion two part was started tonight and hopefully in a few days the alkalinity will increase thus increasing the ph of the tank.


There should be more than enough air exchange going on, several windows have been open though out this nice weather we have been having,

SURPRISE!!! Guess what the alkalinity part of that Reef Fusion is made with. Baking Soda! So you're using the same thing, only paying a lot more for it.

[kurt_n]

Yes I am almost positive it has already cycled, since I did see the tank get very milky one day then in a few days later it became clear and has been like that since....

I wouldn't assume you're cycled. If you're not showing any nitrates at all, I would assume you haven't even started. Did you provide an ammonia source to start the cycle? Was your live rock cured to start with? If you weren't testing for ammonia over the last couple weeks, then all you can do is guess about where you are in the cycle. Milky tank water *could* be from a bacterial bloom, but then again, it might not be.

If it was me, I'd toss something in there to make ammonia (fish food, raw shrimp from grocery store, etc... ) and start testing for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. If you see nitrates start showing up and no ammonia, then you're cycled. If you see ammonia or nitrites show up and not go away right away, then give it some more time. The other option is assume you're cycled and start adding fish, only to see ammonia start showing up because you guessed wrong about the cycle. Not a good start.

I know this has nothing to do with your pH, but I just feel like you're starting off a little sideways. First thing's first - make sure you're cycled. Once you're sure of that and you do your first big water changes, then you can start thinking about your water quality. But I guarantee you... with an empty tank with no fish or coral, there's really no reason to dose anything. I made that mistake when I started out my tank and really screwed up my water parameters. I added baking soda to raise my pH and ended up getting my calcium and alkalinity balance all out of whack. (Sound familiar?)

Yes, you're correct - Oceanic salt (in my opinion) is a little out of balance when it comes to alk/cal. BUT, there are plenty of people that use it that do just fine. It all comes down to personal preference. While the alk might be a little low for some folks' preference, it is still good enough to run a decent tank.

[darkiss]

hahah story of my life.

Anyway, my goal today is to find a testing kit and test everything using a preferred testing brand, if I can find one in my city.

[darkiss]

Kurt_n
Yes I my live rock was cured first

I will try my best to get an ammonia test tonight in order to see.

Currently I am not trying to add any fish until i am certain things are proper.

I actually did not use any baking soda in my tank due to the fact that I could off balance it, just one day of reef fusion part1 and part2 in order to maintain a balance, just increase it a bit.

[darkiss]

Apperently my testing kit from walmart was **** because I switched to a still **** brand but less **** and received the following results

Currently it looks like my levels are:

Salt 1.025-1.026
Carbonate 143.2-179
Calcium 460ppm
ammonia .25-.50
ph 8.2-8.4

[kurt_n]

Actually, those carbonate (alkalinity) values are right where you want them. Those numbers are in ppm CaCO3 and convert basically to 8-10 dKH. Also... don't forget that pH is highest in the evening just before the lights go off, and lowest in the morning just before the lights come on. A swing of 0.2+ is common between morning and evening. Just make sure you measure and record pH at the same time everyday - that way you're comparing apples with apples and aren't chasing an imaginary "low" pH.

Sounds like you're on your way with your cycle. Welcome to the salty side!

[darkiss]

Great thank you.

Yes I am waiting for my Ammonia levels to start breaking down into nitrate and then nitrite.

Each of the ph tests have been tested at the end of the day, and I will see how much of a ph change that it changes from day-night

I think I need to buy digital ph test, i hate matching colors.

[ajcanale]

It's Ammonia > NitrITE > NitrATE. Just wanted to clear that up if you weren't sure. I think you are putting waaaaayyy to much focus on pH. It is the least important of all the levels mentioned so far in this thread, including calcium and alkalinity.

[darkiss]

ya I am just waiting for my tank to cycle and not adding in any chemicals to it currently. Ammonia is still above zero so I know it has not cycled yet. Thanks for this help

[JSeymour]

If the numbers you got from the less crappy test kit (Which one?) are semi-accurate, there isn't going to be a product you can add to fix the problem. Adding an alkalinity supplement like baking soda to correct pH can actually cause more issues as calcium may precipitate and your alkalinity may get too high. Really the only thing you can do is try and reduce CO2 levels. If you can setup your skimmer to pull air from outside, this will likely fix the pH all by itself. Opening a window as mentioned already will give the same results. An airstone in the sump or display(not very attractive) will also help this.