Tips for treating with cupramine?

[ConnorG]

Any tips for treating ick with seachem a cupramine copper will be very much appreciated.

For example what do I do if I do a water change. Do I add it till it reaches .5 again?

[ConnorG]

Bump? Anyone?

[lecher]

Treat with a concentration of .35-.4. Easier on the fish and still very effective. Slowly increase the concentration over a few days to reach .35-.4. Then keep it there for 4 weeks. If you do a water change, then add cupramine to the water change water until it is at the desired concentration then add to tank.

[MrTuskfish]

Treat with a concentration of .35-.4. Easier on the fish and still very effective. Slowly increase the concentration over a few days to reach .35-.4. Then keep it there for 4 weeks. If you do a water change, then add cupramine to the water change water until it is at the desired concentration then add to tank.
Good info. The directions on the Cupramine bottle suggest too much copper, too quickly. SeaChem tech support agrees with the lower dosage and slower raising of the Cu level. Also, fish should be eating before adding copper, unless its an emergency. If they stop eating, its the first sigh on Cu intolerance.

[ConnorG]

In water change water do I want the levels to match that if the tank water? Also is there a certain temp that it is most effective at? Thanks for the info! And if I add a drop should I wait to test again or can I test right away? Sorry for all the question I just don't want anything to happen and lose something that could've been prevented :( I'd an air stone beneficial? Thanks gain everyone!

[ConnorG]

Also what is the BEST test kit? I have heard 3 different answers, Red Sea, seachem, and Salifert. I am hesitant about the seachem cuz it looks like there are a lot of areas to mess up or make a mistake? Is Red Sea ok? What do you guys use?

[snorvich]

match test kit with copper product supplier if at all possible.

[ConnorG]

I was reading about the cupramine product and it states that cupramine specifically doesn't precipitate out if the water so them what is the need if redosing? Also after they begin to eat what should the levels be on the first day. It how much should I increase it daily? Until I reach 3.5-4?

[ConnorG]

Bump?

[SDguy]

If this is a small tank, and you know the volume pretty exactly, I like using the drops per gallon method with cupramine, since I am forever unable to see the color on the test kits at the low levels I use it...

Day 1: 1 drop per gallon.

Day 3: 1 drop per gallon.

Day 5: 1 drop per gallon (half that if sensitive fish like butterflies). Then I just wait.

I write everything in sharpie on the tank, so I know how many total drops are in there. When I do water changes, I replace the total drops from the volume I change out. Example: If I change 10 gallons, I will add 30 drops to the new water (25 drops if butterflies)... hope that makes sense...

I always keep full strength salinity in my QT. I run the temperature at 80F.

This method has worked very well for me with butterflies. I killed a few at first, following the directions on the bottle :o

[ConnorG]

Thanks SOO much! So on days 1,3,5 and so on I just totally reside the tank? Every other day for the 4 weeks?

[SDguy]

Thanks SOO much! So on days 1,3,5 and so on I just totally reside the tank? Every other day for the 4 weeks?

I'm not sure I understand your question? There is no "and so on" after day 5... you don't add any more curpramine after that, unless you do a water change.

[ConnorG]

Oh we'll that was the answer right there thankyou'

[ConnorG]

So on day 1,3,5 I add 10 drops each day? Also time is of the esense so I needed a test kit fast so I picked up a salifert. Hope it ok! I introduced te clowns to the qt and they have been hanging at the bottom with eachother. I feel guilty but Ik it's the right thing that will make them better:)

[ConnorG]

Bump?

[SDguy]

Yup, you got it.

Make sure the QT has a biological filter of some kind (I really like AquaClean hangon filters), and a heater. Maybe somethign for them to hid in/around, like some PVC.

[ConnorG]

So today I dosed for the first time 10 drops for a 10 gal qt I then tested and it disnt show up on the test. Did I do it right?

[SDguy]

Yup.

[Tin_Whistler]

Also time is of the esense so I needed a test kit fast so I picked up a salifert. Hope it ok! I would try and hunt down a seachem test kit. You, and I, would both think copper is just copper, but the seachem test kit will read seachem's copper much more accurately. I don't know why, and I can't explain it, but it just works that way.

Make sure the QT has a biological filter of some kind (I really like AquaClean hangon filters),
Agree with this, but as a reminder, make sure to remove any carbon from your filters. Carbon will absorb all the copper in your system and lead to poor results.

[ConnorG]

Would I be able to put my lemonpeal mimic tang in a 24 gallon Cardiff bullet for treatment? Along with a tailspot blenny, royal grama, and a lyretail anthias for the course of treatment? I would be treating with cupramine as well.

[stunreefer]

Should be fine, assuming the tank is cycled or at least a seasoned filter is used. I use a method similar to Peter. Unfortunately I haven't found a decent Cu test kit. Seachems is a joke.

[ConnorG]

Thanks for all the help! I actually decided on treating them ALL in a 55 dedicated specifically to hospital/quarentine usage. But I am still a little confused on the water change thing. If I change 2 gallons on my 10 gallon tank shouldn't I just add 2 drops to the water change water to make up for the missing?

[ConnorG]

Also is it normal for the clowns to be hanging in the bottom of the tank in the corners? I added the first dose today and it hasn't shown on the test yet but is it ok if I added like 2 more drops tomarrow and then the normal 10 drops on Thursday? Also am I able to use amolock or will it have adverse affects? How do I deal with ammonias? I am just worried because they are swimming on the bottom part of the tank and my female isn't really leaving the bottom corners all that much. They are both breathing heave but I ready that is symptomatic to ich and they were stressed yesterday when I caugh them. I just hope they get better and I'm sorry for all the questions I am just freaking out a little bit!:(

[ConnorG]

Bump any thoughts? Thanks again EVERYONE!!

[SDguy]

I'd say yes, it's normal behavior for the clowns being put into a QT. Did you add any large PVC pieces for them to hide in/around?

As for dealing with ammonia, that's what having a seeded biological filter in the AquaClear is for. You'll have to do water chnages to keep ammonia down if the filter wasn't seeded.

If you don't actually see any signs of disease, then sure, wait a while longer before ramping up the cupramine, if you like.

[SDguy]

But I am still a little confused on the water change thing. If I change 2 gallons on my 10 gallon tank shouldn't I just add 2 drops to the water change water to make up for the missing?

Yes, if you've only ever added 10 drops to the 10g tank. But if you've aded 10 drops once a day, for 3 days, then you now have 30 drops in a 10g tank. That's 3 drops per gallon. So if you change 2 gallons, 2 x 3 = 6. You need to add 6 drops to the 2 new gallons of water you are adding.

[ConnorG]

Ooooohhhhhhh that makes so much more sense! Lightbulb moment!:) and I'm not seeing any ammonias I just wanted to be prepare if I did.

[Ryand63]

man this is great...following along..I'm starting my cupramine treatment as soon as it arrives from drfostersandsmith....let me know how its going connorg, we can do it together lol!

[ConnorG]

man this is great...following along..I'm starting my cupramine treatment as soon as it arrives from drfostersandsmith....let me know how its going connorg, we can do it together lol!

Yes we can! I am actually preparing to remove all if my 9 fish from my 75 into a 55 gallon ht to treat them all with copper as well! Uh oh! Not gonna be fun for me or the fish!:(

[ConnorG]

I'd say yes, it's normal behavior for the clowns being put into a QT. Did you add any large PVC pieces for them to hide in/around?

As for dealing with ammonia, that's what having a seeded biological filter in the AquaClear is for. You'll have to do water chnages to keep ammonia down if the filter wasn't seeded.

If you don't actually see any signs of disease, then sure, wait a while longer before ramping up the cupramine, if you like.

I'm worried that I am wasting valuable time since the copper isn't even showing up on the test. That's why I was wondering if I could add 3 more drops and then do the normal dose tomorrow?

[SDguy]

It will do it's job.... even on very infeced fish. Just be patient. Too much will kill your fish faster than the ich, IME.

[Ryand63]

just got my cupramine in, debating now between the copper vs. hypo! how's yoru coppper treatment going?

[ConnorG]

Fine the clowns are swimming around and eating good but it's too soon to tell. I heard that with hypo it is very difficult to keep water quality at its best. And to keep the pH of the water up where it needs to be. That's why I decided against it.

[Ryand63]

Got ya. I finally decided on copper too. Mine should be here tomorrow and treat,eat starts!

[ConnorG]

I think that's a wise decision. Just make sure your fish that you are treating are eating in the qt before you begin treatment. I have found that it helped a lot with mine. Also I use garlic in my food as kind of an appetite boost. I don't know why but they will only eat it if it has garlic!:)

[ConnorG]

GREAT NEWS!!!! So I was inspecting the own fish today and one of them only has 4 spots and the other with none!!!!! The cupramine isn't even at full strength!! Do I need to raise it again?

[MrTuskfish]

GREAT NEWS!!!! So I was inspecting the own fish today and one of them only has 4 spots and the other with none!!!!! The cupramine isn't even at full strength!! Do I need to raise it again?

Seeing fewer spots is always a good thing; but it really isn't an indicator of how the parasite's life-cycle is going. The white spot is just scar tissue and the ich parasite buries under the skin. Be patient and don't let the absence of spots tempt you into stopping treatment sooner than 4 weeks. Copper always works, when done properly.

[ConnorG]

I was wondering if I could add a grama to the tank as well? I haven't done my final dose of copper yet because the signs of disease are starting to disappear but don't get me wrong I am still treating. Is it too late?

[ConnorG]

Bump?

[MrTuskfish]

I was wondering if I could add a grama to the tank as well? I haven't done my final dose of copper yet because the signs of disease are starting to disappear but don't get me wrong I am still treating. Is it too late?

Signs of ich mean absolutely nothing. You must keep copper at a therapeutic level for at least 4 weeks. Is the Gramma a new fish/ I wouldn't get any new fish until you're certain that the copper treatment has been successful and you don't want to introduce a new fish into a tank that has a full dose of copper. Also, all new fish should be quarantined for at least 6 weeks; just be patient and do things slowly and correctly. The hobby is much more enjoyable when things work and fish live. You are treating all of the fish that were exposed to the fish showing ich. right?

[ConnorG]

Is this what you ment by it getting worse before it gets better? So the clowns were doing GREAT after about 3-4 days at 2 drops per gallon. They were breathing normal and eating great. Now since I added the 3rd dose they hav been breathing heavy and their color is fading as well as white spots are comming back. The little one (male) is the worst as he is the most dull I have ever seen him an hanging near the bottom. No ammonias copper is about .3. Is thi normal?? Here is what I mean by dull. And it doesn't look at bad in the pic but it is bad and he is breathing extremely heavily!:( I am worried should I begin taking it out it is the 11th day. Tank is at 80.0 degrees

[ConnorG]

Is this what you ment by it getting worse before it gets better? So the clowns were doing GREAT after about 3-4 days at 2 drops per gallon. They were breathing normal and eating great. Now since I added the 3rd dose they hav been breathing heavy and their color is fading as well as white spots are comming back. The little one (male) is the worst as he is the most dull I have ever seen him an hanging near the bottom. No ammonias copper is about .3. Is thi normal?? Here is what I mean by dull. And it doesn't look at bad in the pic but it is bad and he is breathing extremely heavily!:( I am worried should I begin taking it out it is the 11th day. Tank is at 80.0 degrees

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc401/Budgieboy21/1FB0B850-1ED0-4E0F-81DC-1F4205B7EA04-19805-00001124C13B04FE.jpg

[ConnorG]

Unfortunately the little clown died last night:,( the one in the picture. And now I am beginning to see the signs in the big clown. Fading color. Is it ok the remove the coper?

[ConnorG]

Bump I need to know what to do with the other clown:(

[MrTuskfish]

What brand of copper and copper test kit are you using? The pic above isn't very clear. Does this fish have salt-like spots, of peeling/sloughing skin?

[ConnorG]

Salifert and kind of yes

[MrTuskfish]

Salifert and kind of yes

Based on the pic and your description, I think its very possible the fish has Brooklynella, not ich. Google "Marine Ich'' and "marine brooklynella", include images. Most pics to see will be extreme cases, but make your best guess based on symptoms and description. Brook is extremely deadly, contagious, and quick. This parasite/disease is especially common in clownfish. Tank-bred clowns usually don't carry it, but any fish in the dealers tank or system could spread it. The only cure is Formalin.

[SomeDude12]

Also what is the BEST test kit? I have heard 3 different answers, Red Sea, seachem, and Salifert. I am hesitant about the seachem cuz it looks like there are a lot of areas to mess up or make a mistake? Is Red Sea ok? What do you guys use?

I would highly recommend Seachem's. I constantly run Cupramine in a 40 breeder and the kit works very well to aid in maintaining the proper levels. Especially after a water change.

[ConnorG]

Well then do I remove all copper and begin with that medicine?

[MrTuskfish]

Tough call; if you're sure its brooklynella then remove copper with Cuprisorb, carbon or WCs. You may better off just replacing all of the water. Copper and Formalin are deadly when mixed. If you're not sure if its velvet; you can try formalin dips and just return the fish to the copper tank. A 3RD option is just assume its ich and continue the fish with the copper. A lot of brook-infected fish are doomed, no matter what you do. From just the pic and your description of the skin, it does appear to be brooklynella. On the other hand; brook kills quickly (usually, not always) and this fish has been fighting something for a long time, that suggests ich.

[ConnorG]

So I just ordered a bottle of formalin and I have been doing fw dips and they seem to help a lot although he hasn't eaten for about 4 days now but has still been swimming around. I'm nervous the formalin won't get here in time. My question is what else does formalin kill?

[ConnorG]

Bump? Anyone?

[kv2wr1]

If this is a small tank, and you know the volume pretty exactly, I like using the drops per gallon method with cupramine, since I am forever unable to see the color on the test kits at the low levels I use it...

Day 1: 1 drop per gallon.

Day 3: 1 drop per gallon.

Day 5: 1 drop per gallon (half that if sensitive fish like butterflies). Then I just wait.

I write everything in sharpie on the tank, so I know how many total drops are in there. When I do water changes, I replace the total drops from the volume I change out. Example: If I change 10 gallons, I will add 30 drops to the new water (25 drops if butterflies)... hope that makes sense...

I always keep full strength salinity in my QT. I run the temperature at 80F.

This method has worked very well for me with butterflies. I killed a few at first, following the directions on the bottle :o

This is great advice! I wish I could give karma points for this. :)