Overfeeding mantis shrimp?

[nmotz]

All,

So I've owned my new Peacock Mantis Shrimp for a total of 3 days now and it has been a lot of fun already. But, I'm a beginner, and even though these little guys are pretty easy to take care of, I have a noob question.

Is it possible to overfeed a mantis shrimp? I know you can kill fish like that, but I have literally no experience taking care of a tank of any kind, fresh or marine.
The reason I ask is because he ate about 15 feeder shrimp and one turbo snail in 2 days (Fri night - Sunday night). I know they will kill anything that gets near them, and they usually eat what they kill, so should I make sure there are no more feeder shrimp swimming about after he has gorged like that?

Honestly, after he ate about 6-7 feeder shrimp on Friday night, he went out hunting and killed a few more feeder shrimp on Saturday morning. A few minutes later, he deliberately left his burrow and went over to the turbo snail which was on another piece of LR, plucked it off, took it to his burrow, and smashed it into oblivion. While he was still eating the snail, he killed and ate another feeder shrimp that drifted too close to his burrow. Was he starving because the fish store staff didn't feed him very much? Is it normal for them to eat that much?

He has attacked everything, whether it moves or not. He has hit the glass multiple times, and the heater. His first order of business upon becoming acquainted with his surroundings was to destroy his thermometer, which he did in one blow. The kerosene from the thermometer went everywhere. I did like 3 water changes to remove it all and I still think there is some left in the tank. I can't believe he's not dead! Crazy shrimp.

[TundraGuy]

LOL this is too good to be read only once.

Ok starting off with the heater and thermometer, if you read in any of the old conversations about peacock set ups you’ll read that there is a possibility for these being taken out by the shrimp. So to read about it happening is always funny to me. If you can move them to a sump or hang on filter or get ones that the mantis can’t just hit and break open then do it. Good on you for trying to get all the crude out.

The feeding behavior of the mantis is mostly what drives us to keeping mantis as pets. As Biologists Sheila Patek states “these animals are wonderfully aggressive and always hungry” I would tend to agree with this to a point. It turns out that mantis will stop eating when full. Lol. I read something along time ago about fatty liver in mantis but Doctor Roy has cleared this up, stating he has no information on such occurrences. With this information in hand, I chose to keep my mantis tanks stocked with large CUCs varying from snails shrimp crabs and hermits. I never found this to be a problem. I really ever fed frozen prepared foods (only on special occasions) but can tell you even with the abundance of life food the mantis always took the frozen. I have often found discarded pieces of leftover foods around the caves my mantis lived in. But have not witnessed ether of my mantis (both gone now, a peacock, and a smithii) ever kill just for the sake of killing. Rather only doing that to eat.

I would say you should take a closer look at the feeder shrimp I find that they have a lack of real meat compared to other animals in the same size category. So you’re lucky little guy may just not have had his fill yet. Hope this info helps you out.

Can you do us a big favor and show us some pix and give us some tank info while you’re at it. I am not asking to flame you but rather I just enjoy looking into people systems to see how they are running them. Thanks in advanced.

[nmotz]

Will post pics soon, but for now, I have a 15G tank with about 2" of medium coral substrate, ~5 pounds of LR (yes, I know that's not the standard amount), a small hang-on power filter and a 75W heater. As I mentioned previously, I'm now down a thermometer.

I'm planning on buying a little more LR soon, and will keep releasing feeder shrimp into the tank since he seems to enjoy them. They are very small and thin indeed so I guess he just needs a lot of them. I also have frozen shrimp that I can use in case he eats all the live stuff. I take care of the tank religiously, so the water is clean (minus the freaking kerosene).

There is also a small algae eating crab in the tank, but he is really small and hides very well so Poseidon hasn't eaten him yet. I'm also going to get a new heater because the one I have now is glass.

[Fartin'Gary]

15 gallons is way to small for a peacock. When I had mine in a ten gallon temporary tank he smacked the sides of the glass too. It's just not enough room for it to dig it's burrow properly. 30 gallons minimum and get twice the rated filtration for the tank size. They sell heaters made of hard plastic that are unbreakable. Look on Amazon. don't bother with just shock proof glass heaters. If it breaks that heater it will electrocute everything in the tank.

[nmotz]

I know it is a little small for the mantis, but it was the best I could do right now. I'm just getting a feel for the marine tank thing and only really wanted the mantis so I went a little smaller than was recommended. Eventually I will get a larger tank (probably 30G) and may convert the present one into a sump.

He has built a pretty decent burrow underneath the LR and is obviously very active. I've just put some new shells in there for him to "decorate" with. He already festooned the remains of the freshly eaten snail shell over one of the entrances into his burrow.

Bought some more feeder shrimp just now and they are going down fast. He really seems to enjoy hunting them. I have a video of him striking at one of them. Couple of pics too, will post eventually.

[gnasher]

An ideal tank size for a beginner is 30-40 gallons. The reason being that they are big enough to provide some stability, but not so big it will overwhelm you while getting your feet wet. They are also more reasonable sizes for a peacock, so with a larger tank, you would have been killing two birds with one stone.

If you are just trying to get a feel for the marine tank thing and all you can do right now is a 15G, there are many other mantis species that are more appropriate for a tank that size. Most of them are much easier to come by as well.

The problem with a tank that size is not just that it's inhumane, but it will be hard for a beginner aquarist like yourself to keep all of the parameters in check, especially considering how much you're feeding. The size of the bio load is way more than I think a 15 gallon tank can handle. To answer your initial question, a mantis will never overeat. You are only overfeeding if your water parameters are off. That's assuming you have the mantis in an appropriately sized tank. I'd recommend two things if you're not willing to get a bigger tank or give the mantis back.

1. Stop feeding so much and pay close attention to your water parameters. Just because the mantis is killing things doesn't mean it needs to eat. Snails and hermits are sufficient and provide exercise that species needs. If you want to feed directly, do so once every few days.

2. Get some additional filtration. Many people that don't have sufficient live rock for bio filtration use canister filters. This is not just a good idea for you. If you're going to stick with that tank size and that animal in it, it is necessary.

[nmotz]

I do know that the ideal tank size for beginner's is also larger than what I currently have. I read all over the internet about what an acceptable size for a mantis shrimp would be and saw mixed results. Some said 15G, others said at least 30G. So, I tried to find something in my budget that was about 20-25G, but was unsuccessful, hence the 15G.

I am aware about the challenge that this presents with keeping the water clean and I assure you that I am taking that seriously.

I know there are probably different species of mantid shrimp that are easier to get in the US, but I do not live in the US. I'm in Germany. He was the only available mantis.

Hermits are also harder to come by here, but there are currently three in his tank for him to eat, as well as an algae eating crab. The feeder shrimp are very small, so they don't cause too much of a problem in terms of bioload.

About the canister filter...I appreciate the advice, and believe me it will be considered. The only point of contention I will raise is that I have spoken to many people who don't use canister filters, even with smaller tanks. My current filter turns the water over about 7 times in an hour, which is more than enough to maintain a decent current and keep the water clean. Your case is legitimate for anyone who isn't really interested with ensuring that regular maintenance is performed. I assure you that I am not that guy. If I just wanted to plop him in there and forget about him, I wouldn't have bought him in the first place.

Thanks for the advice, and don't worry, I will take care of him.

[TundraGuy]

Pix? Hehehehe. Here pixel, pixel. Here pixel.

[nmotz]

Ah sorry, I took some last night but haven't uploaded them yet... been busy. Will try to do it tonight.

[TundraGuy]

O sure. Busy................

:)

[nmotz]

Yeah, but I really do need ya'll to have a look at them because I'm starting to suspect that I do not have an O. Scyllarus afterall. I think it may be a G. Chiragra. He's green and about 4" long, and does have some colorful markings on his legs and such, but after watching a bunch of youtube vids, I think he might not be a Peacock.

[TundraGuy]

This happends more then you know

[nmotz]

So here are some photos of my setup and of course my mantis, Poseidon. What's the verdict? Is he a peacock? Or a G. Chiragra?

[TundraGuy]

I was thinking more like a G. Galcatus. But will see what everyone else has input wise.

Thanks for the pix. Can you get your hands on some macroalgae? I think you will find it helpful to let it grow in this tank it will help pull some chems from the water and make for a more interesting display. I like Mexicana and Prolifera for your set up. I think you will find in this set up they will grow at a staggering rate.

[nmotz]

Where would I get macroalgae? I don't want too much algae right? You just mean for the purposes of filtration I guess?

So, it's definitely not a Peacock then?

[Fartin'Gary]

Definitely not a peacock. Local pet stores will have the seaweed algae stuff. I would point that powerhead up at the waters surface to agitate it and get more of a gas exchange going on for better oxygenation. With the algae just put it in there and trim it if it grows to big. The mantis will use it for decorations too.

This is a peacock.

[nmotz]

Pointed the powerhead up like you said....will try to find some algae this weekend at my LFS. Any other thoughts on what species mine is? I definitely think its a Gonodactylid.

[nmotz]

Anybody else have an opinion on what species my new mantis is? I'm now thinking he might be a N. Wennerae. Pics added a couple of posts up. He is around 4" long, and thin (maybe 1" wide).

[Fartin'Gary]

You will have to get a good shot of the meral spots. That will help in identification.

[nmotz]

They are plain white

[united417]

They are plain white

sounds/looks like a G. Chiragra to me

[nmotz]

Yeah I'm pretty much decided that he is a G. Chiragra because he is already bigger than a full grown N. Wennerae. So G. Chiragra's hit the hardest of the mantis species right? I mean relative to their body weight of course.

[Fartin'Gary]

Yea, they are supposed to be pretty ill tempered and reclusive most of the time but that's just up to the individual mantis really.

[nmotz]

He's ill tempered, and stays in his burrow a lot, but he comes out a few times a day to swim around the tank. Most mantids remain in or near their burrows a lot though right? Do Peacocks come out a lot? Which mantis sp. is your personal favorite?

[Fartin'Gary]

My peacock is out all the time all over the place but always darts back to the burrow after a minute then comes back out. This is the only one I have had so it's my favorite.

[TundraGuy]

This is the only one I have had so it's my favorite.

:spin1: Dude I love this statement! :spin1: