cracked external weir help

[jake koppen]

so i was installing the plumbing on this tank tonight and made this crack in the bottom pane of the external weir. i'm either going to
A) use rtv silicone and go over it top and bottom really heavy and put the bulkhead in while wet (this will be watertight and stay for good)
or
B) Cut the whole thing apart (which i just built) replace the pane and redo (there is allot of work to do this option). I will have to cut all the silicone, cut & drill 3 holes in new pane, put all back together, cure (it's not warm enough outside and really don't want to do it in the house) also repaint the back glass (same issue with outside spray paint)

Question: you think option A is ok? the weir will be holding about 2 gallons when in operation.

[ngrubich]

how big is this external weir? When I first read this, I thought you were talking about the pre-drilled holes in the bottom of the tank, behind the overflow box. If this is going to be a HOB-style weir, then what you can do is test it using the method in A). Just be careful about overtightening the bulkhead when applying the silicone so you don't propagate the crack any more. This goes without saying that the crack will eventually propagate anyways (IME), so in my opinion, it would be better to just go ahead and do B).
Things are way easier to fix before the tank gets up and running.

[sail33]

I'm so cheap I patched 6 cracks in one. All were sealed with silicone and held. Except the one on the bottom where yours is.

I'm not saying it won't work. I'm saying it fixed 5 out of 6

[jake koppen]

The weir is siliconed to the back of tank. It is 6x14x14 and will be filled 3/4 when in operation. The crack is from the hole to the edge of the glass, so I don't see it turning into anything more. I think I'm going to just seal it (A). I'll flip my plumbing around so that there is no more stress to it with ball valve being used on that hole.
Keep the advice coming tho, going to wait and think about it for a couple days

[uncleof6]

Put simply, regardless of stories of success, silicone will not repair cracks in glass. The only repair really worth mention, is replacement. Sorry, but there just is nothing more to be said about it. :)

[laugh]

You could just cut and drill another piece of glass that will fit down inside the wier and silicone it in. Essentially it will become the new bottom and the original cracked piece will no longer be of any consequence.

[uncleof6]

Other than, the seams around the "new" panel will in no way be as strong as the seams on the broken piece (and the broken piece serves no support assistance,) or properly re-done seams, and replacement glass--serving a structural purpose. Structural members are not something to tempt the fates with.

[laugh]

If you silicone clean glass to clean glass it will be as strong as any other seam. Regardless if it has a piece of cracked glass below it. Don't over think it, we are talking about 2 gallons of water here. If repaired this way it will hold as long and as well as if it had never happened.

[jake koppen]

I could do a glass pane on the bottom, but I'm leaning towards just redoing the whole thing. I'm still up in the air tho. All is good advice

[uncleof6]

Glass, with improper structural seams, will not match the strength of the original piece of glass. This is not over thinking--especially since the glass on the bottom is already compromised, it is broken--in other words--a big goose egg, the quick fix relies on the broken piece for support. It is a quick fix that is under thought, as most are. Bump the plumbing and it may well done, 17.6 lbs of weight on it could well finish it off. It is NOT worth the risk.

Pull the thing off now, and do it right.

[laugh]

Rebuild it if it will keep you up at night. If you just replaced the bottom pane it will be no more likely to fail and will not rely on the cracked piece for support. The only enemy of "good enough" is "better"

[uncleof6]

Rebuild it if it will keep you up at night. If you just replaced the bottom pane it will be no more likely to fail and will not rely on the cracked piece for support. The only enemy of "good enough" is "better"

Very true, because the bottom piece would be gone. The only enemy of right is wrong. There is no middle.

[laugh]

Haha everything you said about your way working was correct. Everything you said about my way not working was incorrect. Seems you think your opinion is the only one that matters. I guess that would make you wrong twice. Arrogance is the enemy of many things notably intelligence.

[uncleof6]

First what I originally said was replace the broken bottom.

You could just cut and drill another piece of glass that will fit down inside the wier and silicone it in. Essentially it will become the new bottom and the original cracked piece will no longer be of any consequence.

I challenge this as being uninformed, and the improper way to make the repair. Essentially, leaving the bottom panel in place--leaving improper seams for a structural purpose. Essentially using the bottom panel for support, as the seams would not be structural on the piece slid down inside.


If you silicone clean glass to clean glass it will be as strong as any other seam. Regardless if it has a piece of cracked glass below it. Don't over think it, we are talking about 2 gallons of water here. If repaired this way it will hold as long and as well as if it had never happened.

However, this is not thought out. There is a right way and a wrong way to make silicone seams for structural purposes. Putting a piece of glass down inside a "box" shape, siliconing it in, is not a structural seam. Further, siliconing it to the bottom panel, would not support the "inside panel" if the bottom panel decided to give way.

Rebuild it if it will keep you up at night. If you just replaced the bottom pane it will be no more likely to fail and will not rely on the cracked piece for support. The only enemy of "good enough" is "better"

You do a complete U-turn, and state exactly what I was saying. Along with a dig. The idea being remove the broken panel, and place a new panel below the remaining parts of the box, not inside it. And i agreed with you!

Haha everything you said about your way working was correct. Everything you said about my way not working was incorrect. Seems you think your opinion is the only one that matters. I guess that would make you wrong twice. Arrogance is the enemy of many things notably intelligence.


Some opinion is knowledge gained by experience, and is not an opinion at all. Other opinion, is just argumentative, and includes personal attacks. Please, make your case--if you can. :)

[laugh]

Further, siliconing it to the bottom panel, would not support the "inside panel" if the bottom panel decided to give way.

The bottom panel is simply not going to pop out because it is cracked. It will leak because of the crack. This would be the equivalent of saying someones tank is going to fall through the floor if not properly supported, not going to happen, make the floor sag, yes, stress the tank because of uneven, shifting floors, yes. Fall through floor, never. Tank will fail long before the floor.


You do a complete U-turn, and state exactly what I was saying. Along with a dig. The idea being remove the broken panel, and place a new panel below the remaining parts of the box, not inside it.

I did not do a U-turn because I never stated that doing that way was wrong. I only argued it's necessity. If doing it another way is going to cause the OP to worry about it then by all means do whatever helps you sleep at night.


Some opinion is knowledge gained by experience, and is not an opinion at all. Other opinion, is just argumentative, and includes personal attacks. Please, make your case--if you can. :)

No personal attacks. I simply cited that perhaps at times your intelligence is overshadowed by arrogance. I don't doubt your intelligence or your arrogance. Fact of the matter is the box will not fail because of the crack. You see I never said your way was wrong, you have just been adamant that my way would not work. Your failure to see that something other than your own opinion will work is arrogant and argumentative. BTW how much experience do you have with failed tanks? Not something you hear about everyday but you seem to profess your expertise in the matter. Being an expert at what will work does not make you an expert at what won't.

[uncleof6]

The bottom panel is simply not going to pop out because it is cracked. It will leak because of the crack. This would be the equivalent of saying someones tank is going to fall through the floor if not properly supported, not going to happen, make the floor sag, yes, stress the tank because of uneven, shifting floors, yes. Fall through floor, never. Tank will fail long before the floor.

We are talking about a piece of glass that is broken, not floors. I gave good sound advice concerning the subject. Some will get it, some won't. It is for the OP to decide whether sound, or less than sound, is appropriate,or as you put it "best" or "good enough"--but is it?

I did not do a U-turn because I never stated that doing that way was wrong. I only argued it's necessity. If doing it another way is going to cause the OP to worry about it then by all means do whatever helps you sleep at night.

No personal attacks. I simply cited that perhaps at times your intelligence is overshadowed by arrogance. I don't doubt your intelligence or your arrogance. Fact of the matter is the box will not fail because of the crack. You see I never said your way was wrong, you have just been adamant that my way would not work. Your failure to see that something other than your own opinion will work is arrogant and argumentative. BTW how much experience do you have with failed tanks? Not something you hear about everyday but you seem to profess your expertise in the matter. Being an expert at what will work does not make you an expert at what won't.

Then perhaps, it would be better that you address yourself to the thread topic, rather than commenting on me, or what you think of me. It is irrelevant to the topic. It draws a lot of views, but does nothing to advance your case.

[James77]

so i was installing the plumbing on this tank tonight and made this crack in the bottom pane of the external weir. i'm either going to
A) use rtv silicone and go over it top and bottom really heavy and put the bulkhead in while wet (this will be watertight and stay for good)
or
B) Cut the whole thing apart (which i just built) replace the pane and redo (there is allot of work to do this option). I will have to cut all the silicone, cut & drill 3 holes in new pane, put all back together, cure (it's not warm enough outside and really don't want to do it in the house) also repaint the back glass (same issue with outside spray paint)

Question: you think option A is ok? the weir will be holding about 2 gallons when in operation.

Option A might well work, and work for a very long time. Ideally, I'd bite the bullet and do "B". How much time are you really talking to do option B? Maybe 4-5 hours? I would let it cure in the house, assuming no wife....the smell isn't a problem since it lasts 24 hours max.

That said, I have done some pretty hack repairs. One was a 55 gallon drilled on the side that about 8-10 cracks radiating out from a hole after I bumped an external pump. I drained the return section and slathered on some silicone on each crack and filled it later that day. What was supposed to be a couple day fix was running for months :o. Siliconing a glass piece over a crack in glass provides extremely good support for that crack.

[laugh]

We are talking about a piece of glass that is broken, not floors. I gave good sound advice concerning the subject. Some will get it, some won't. It is for the OP to decide whether sound, or less than sound, is appropriate,or as you put it "best" or "good enough"--but is it?

The reference to the floors is called and example. Used here to compare two examples of extremism. Some will get it some won't.


Then perhaps, it would be better that you address yourself to the thread topic, rather than commenting on me, or what you think of me. It is irrelevant to the topic. It draws a lot of views, but does nothing to advance your case.
It was you who started quoting me and trying to goad me into argument with statements like, "please make your case--if you can" The only one trying to make a case is you. I never said any other method was wrong or unsound, just that mine would work. If you don't want to hear what I have to say then perhaps you should take your own advice.

To the OP
Good luck however you choose to repair this. Sorry to derail your thread, I won't comment here anymore, . Perhaps without all the commotion someone can chime in with other viable options.

[jake koppen]

The issue with redoing the bottom pane is:
1, taking the tank into and then back up from the basement with only 1” on each side to fit between walls and not bumping and cracking the glass again. (too cold outside to silicone & paint)
2, cut & drill 3 holes in new glass
3, cut silicone & rebuild the box
4, mask the tank & re spray paint the back glass
Then I'm back to before the crack
Or option B which is cake on some strong silicone put the bulk head in and move forward. I really think that this would hold really well and as stated before it's only holding 2-3 gallons.
More thoughts?
Ps no worries about the back and forth- there are good points in there.
Also I don't want to drop new glass ontop of the bottom pane cause there is a heavy silicone bead all around the inside. So if it sits flat on the bottom, it will have to be cut smaller to clear the bead if silicone. So it won't be touching the sides and the new silicone will not adhere to the old. So underneath the pane would be the best idea next to redoing the whole thing

[NanoReefWanabe]

siliconing a piece of glass under the old will certainly do nothing...water will leak through the crack out the end of the glass...

although removing the fillet of silicone in the corners and dropping a new piece of glass to fit in there, "may" work, i agree it is not going to be anywhere near as strong as a piece of glass that was siliconed and clamped in properly...

the only viable option to me would be replace the bottom panel...and personally i would use thicker glass, as it is looks like you used 9mm glass...and your 2.5" hole is only about 1.5" from the edge of the glass...i would bump the glass up to 1/2" or thicker if you are going to place the hole closer then 1 diameter from any edge or other hole as you have it now...

[uncleof6]

While we are on wanabe's topic, I am reading three holes, which reads a siphon system. So I would have to ask, why are you using 1.5" bulkheads, in a 14" box, (why the box is 14" tall is another question,) unless you are planning on running a couple or three thousand gallons an hour through it? (Which a 14" box is going to choke on at the entrance to it.)

The glass pane broke because the hole is too close to the edge. Using the same size hole is going to make a new panel just as vulnerable, even if it is thicker, probably just take a bit more knock is all. If you are going to be flowing at a rate reasonable for the box size, 1" bulkheads, (1.75" holes) will improve your knockability.

If you have a Durso machination going on, disregard.

[jake koppen]

Ok, so I just replaced the bottom pane with identical pane and smashed the old one in the bottom with silicone for good measure (could add some support to bulk heads tweeking).
As for the last post, I was planning 1” drains which would have allowed for more glass around and in between the holes. At some point during planning I got talked into 1 1/4 drain size (I knew better but I was talking to a custom acrylic builder with more experience). Pvc comes in 1 or 1 1/2 ,.so I bought all the plumbing to do it 1 1/2. Then I didn't adjust the external weir design to allow for more space. I do have a valve on the main drain so I can throttle it way back to still siphon.
I like to think it was well designed then poorly executed haha. I should be good tho. Agreed?

[jake koppen]

Edit- that first part should read that I siliconed the cracked pane underneath for some added rigidity

[NanoReefWanabe]

Edit- that first part should read that I siliconed the cracked pane underneath for some added rigidity

FYI, silicone isnt going to add a lick of strength to the broken piece, or solid piece of glass for that matter...it may prevent water from leaking through it though.

[jake koppen]

A second pane with add side to side support to the bulk heads tho. It's certainly not going to hurt anything

[jake koppen]

FYI, silicone isnt going to add a lick of strength to the broken piece, or solid piece of glass for that matter...it may prevent water from leaking through it though.

There is a new replacement pane then i.siliconed the old pane underneath for some added support

[uncleof6]

It has been advised several times, that the old pane is providing no support. It is useless--it is broken. Throw it in a trash can, it is nothing but a liability.