Skimmer gone wild!

[tylersarah]

Our Reef Octopus protein skimmer has decided to overflow and foam rapidly, often at night. I've dialed it down multiple times and currently the bubbles are foaming half way up the skimmer neck, but I feel like I'm just waiting for another foam explosion.

What causes a skimmer to overflow?
1. I know epoxy or adhesive will cause a reaction, we haven't used any.
2. The water level in the skimmer is appropriate, I've read if it's too high it will cause overflow.

Anything else?

Often our ATO system stops pumping water into the sump, either there's an air bubble or it's clogged, we soak it in vinegar but it doesn't help for long. I noticed more than once that when the skimmer overflowed that the water level in the sump was a 1/2" to 1" low due to the ATO not working. Possible cause?

And since we're on the topic of sumps, the 2" sand bed in my fuge has gone hard, very hard, is this normal?

Thanks for reading.
I should rename this thread Sumps Gone Wrong :rolleyes:
Sarah

[reefgeezer]

The two might not be related, but if they were...

1. Sand hardens when the calcium carbonate it is made of is broken down.
2. Calcium carbonate breaks down at low(er) pH.
3. PH is lowered by acids in the system that exceed the waters buffering capacity.
4. Acids in the system can be a result of the breakdown of organics.
5. High organic levels will cause a skimmer to over-flow.

I'd check your pH and alkalinity, raise the alkalinity (not the pH) if possible, and figure out where the excessive organics are coming from. The excessive organics may very well be in the sand itself. Trapped detritus often decays and causes at least local pH drops and hardens the sand. If it gets too bad, the acids created from the decay can drop the pH of the entire system.

You also said that soaking your "ATO' in vinegar made it start working. This might that there is something that includes of calcium carbonate clogging it. Do you top off with kalk? ...or... Maybe there is excessive calcium in the tank water due to the sand being broken down so it collects in the tube. Sorry, I can only guess.

[tylersarah]

The two might not be related, but if they were...

1. Sand hardens when the calcium carbonate it is made of is broken down.
2. Calcium carbonate breaks down at low(er) pH.
3. PH is lowered by acids in the system that exceed the waters buffering capacity.
4. Acids in the system can be a result of the breakdown of organics.
5. High organic levels will cause a skimmer to over-flow.

I'd check your pH and alkalinity, raise the alkalinity (not the pH) if possible, and figure out where the excessive organics are coming from. The excessive organics may very well be in the sand itself. Trapped detritus often decays and causes at least local pH drops and hardens the sand. If it gets too bad, the acids created from the decay can drop the pH of the entire system.

You also said that soaking your "ATO' in vinegar made it start working. This might that there is something that includes of calcium carbonate clogging it. Do you top off with kalk? ...or... Maybe there is excessive calcium in the tank water due to the sand being broken down so it collects in the tube. Sorry, I can only guess.

John - thanks for the response.

I can assume the hardening of the fuge sand is due to heavy Ca/Alk/Mg dosing into that chamber. A few months ago I stopped doing that and dosed into the return pump chamber only, and today I received 2 BRS Drew's dosing pumps/Apex Lite in the mail to further solve this. My question stands, should I remove the hardened sand bed from the fuge or leave it alone?

Yes, there is Kalk in the top off water, I know it contributes to the ATO pump failing, I think those are best used with water only. Plus, the kalk gets airborn when mixing and is nasty altogether.

Excess organic matter. Yep, got that. I've been working diligently on nutrient export to rid of the nuisance green hair algae. I turkey baste, stir up the sand, use filter socks etc. So, you think this may be causing the skimmer to overflow? The good news...does this mean my algae is DYING????

Salifert:

pH 8.2 in display
Alk 9.0 dKH

Just for fun:
NO3 1 ppm
PO4 0 ppm (yeah right, the gha is consuming it all)

Thanks again!

[sirreal63]

For the skimmer, check the venturi for salt creep or calcification, if you have a reduction in air you will have an increase in water and that can lead to overflowing. The venturi has a tendency to calcify or gather salt creep, if it is just salt, hot ro/di water will clear it, if calcified a vinegar soak will clean it.

[reefgeezer]

I went through the kalk thing in my ATO. Didn't like the mess either. The dosing pumps and two-part will help.

I removed sand in my fuge a long time ago. Just Chaeto and some Caulerpa for me. If the sand is clumping, I'd remove it. Is the skimmer overflowing water or foam?

[tylersarah]

It does both. Caught it overflowing water today. Seems to be when it 'overfoams' that is during the night.

Checked Venturi - all clear.

[AquaReeferMan]

The skimmer issue is likely due to the fluctuating water level. Any time your water level changes, the skimmer changes. You then adjust it to the lower sump water level and it's dialed in. After water gets replaced the skimmer will overflow. The water level needs to stay the same all the time in the area where the skimmer is. If not, you need to adjust when the water level drops and adjust again when the water level rises.

[tylersarah]

I'm still at a loss. This afternoon I found it overflowing with water and there was foam all over the sump. The water level was where it was supposed to be and nothing else had changed (that I'm aware of).

It's a Super Reef Octopus 2000 and it's for a 120 gal tank.

Any ideas?

[reefgeezer]

Just guessing here...

Could flow the pump be changing? Maybe calcium build-up inside or something slows the pump temporarily. You might disassemble the pump and soak it in vinegar to make sure it is free of build-up.

Are you spraying anything near the tank, cooking nearby, anything that might increase the surface tension of the water? Using any detergents to wash filter socks or anything else. Could your ATO container be contaminated with some sort of organic?

Could there be voltage/frequency spikes that change the speed of the pump?

[tylersarah]

Just guessing here...

Could flow the pump be changing? Maybe calcium build-up inside or something slows the pump temporarily. You might disassemble the pump and soak it in vinegar to make sure it is free of build-up.

Are you spraying anything near the tank, cooking nearby, anything that might increase the surface tension of the water? Using any detergents to wash filter socks or anything else. Could your ATO container be contaminated with some sort of organic?

Could there be voltage/frequency spikes that change the speed of the pump?

Thought provoking guesses, let's see here. The sump is in the basement and not much goes on down there except laundry which isn't near the tank. We use bleach plus heavy rinsing for the filter socks. ATO gets cleaned weekly when it's refilled, plus it's covered.

Skimmer pump, well, I wouldn't be surprised if there's calcium carbonate inside, it gets soaked in vinegar occasionally, I'll do it again and see if it improves.

Not sure about the voltage spikes, I'll ask Tyler to test for it when he returns from deer hunting.

The skimmer was purchase used on Craigslist therefore, I'm not sure how old it is. Could it be that it's old and failing? I've never had a skimmer long enough to know what happens when they want to retire in a landfill.

[BigCountry74]

take it out, pop the cap off the pump housing and pull the propeller out and see if anything is stuck down in there. clean everything real good etc.

[SUP]

What time do you feed your fish/tank? I have the SRO 2000 and my skimmer works very well at night. Not as good during the day. The reason I have come up with is that a small amount of flakes are fed during the day and around 5pm, I feed a cube of frozen along with (at times) a couple of small pieces of scallop.

Skimmer takes a lot of stuff out of the water overnight.


SUP

[tylersarah]

I do 2-3 small feedings per day, morning, afternoon and dinner time. I think it's a nice, powerful skimmer, but obviously something's gone wrong.
Time to clean the pump.

[tylersarah]

I soaked the skimmer pump in vinegar for nearly 1.5 hrs. Checked inside, all clear. So far it has not overflowed, but I don't feel like we're out of the dark, yet.