500g Plywood/Glass Build external C2C with Solar Tubes [Archive]

Lavoisier

11/01/2012, 07:17 PM

I am excited to begin this build and am greatly indebted to the many talented aquarists on Reef Central and elsewhere for their willingness to share ideas, think through problems, offer advice, and encourage one another towards the pursuit of excellence in our hobby. I offer the following in hopes of honoring (almost as an obligation) all the labor put in by many, many others. Any blunders to come are fully my responsibility and the successes will be due to the great advice I have gleaned from others. I will try to acknowledge the many sources from which my ideas have come and apologize in advance for neglecting anyone. I doubt I have had an original idea in decades (ever?) but I hope you will find this thread interesting in how the wonderful thoughts of others have helped me solve my particular problems in creating my dream system.

The build will be as simple as I can make it and I look forward to continuing input from you all.

Tank: will be 8’ x 4’ x 30” made of ¾” plywood (some furniture grade hardwood, much of it just sanded) sealed with Blue Max liquid rubber and having two viewing panels of Starfire glass 8x2 and 4x2.

Lighting: four 10” solar tubes supplemented with three 400w MH.

Waterflow: Return pump is a Reeflo Gold Hammerhead with two OMs and manifold over the top of the tank. It will also feed the skimmer and any other reactors I end up using. Cl is a Reeflo Barracuda with two 1 ½” SeaSwirls. The CL will also feed a refugium which returns to the top of the tank. Internal water flow from two MP60’s (EcoTech tells me I’ll need 3 but we’ll see).
Filtration: 6-7ft 6” DYI Skimmer—have not decided on airstone or pinwheel (I have a BB HY-5000) and may try a combined skimmer. @400lbs of “live rock” and I will diy another 200lbs (concrete and salt) to use in my 140g cryptic tank and 40g fug. The sump will be 100g high flow with a compartment for macro.

Undecided components: (I would welcome any thoughts.)

1. Also under consideration is either a foam rock wall or a concrete rock wall on the two plywood sides of the tank.
2. I have not decided on air stone or pinwheel (I have a BB HY-5000) or may try a combined skimmer.
3. Not sure the sump is properly designed.
4. I’m sure there will be lots of other issues to arise.

So to begin, here is the stand design (Thanks to RocketEngineer) which I am planning to build this weekend.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Stand_zps242c6418.png

Lavoisier

11/01/2012, 07:26 PM

In order to build the stand I had to create a level "pad" in my basement that sloops to the center drain. I used a self leveling concrete product that although worked well was expensive--I needed 6 bags to level 3/4" 10'x 6'. If I had to do it again I would have used regular concrete and finished with one or two bags of this:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40001.jpg

The process: Spreading the Primer

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40003.jpg

Mixing the concrete product

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40005.jpg

Creating the "form"

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40006.jpg

Finished Pad

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40013.jpg

Lavoisier

11/01/2012, 07:30 PM

I have also installed my Panasonic exhaust fan with humidifier switch.

Before:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40014.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40011.jpg

After:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40037.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40036.jpg

coraltastic

11/01/2012, 07:41 PM

Off to a good start. Good planning and great followthrough make a awsome reef. I will be tagging along. Keep the progress going.

Lavoisier

11/01/2012, 07:57 PM

Here are more of my design plans. Again, I welcome suggestions or observations, particularly with regards to perceived flaws. Thanks in advance.

From front:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquariumwithmanifoldabovetankfront2.png

From Back:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquariumwithmanifoldabovetank1.png

Lavoisier

11/01/2012, 08:03 PM

Forgot to mention, huge thanks to karimwassef and uncleof6 for their thoughtfulness, experience, and willingness to share ideas. Both have been instrumental in my planning for this build.

TimmyD16

11/01/2012, 11:29 PM

Subscribed! Awesome setup... You at all worried about algae with the sun tubes?

Lavoisier

11/02/2012, 04:14 AM

Subscribed! Awesome setup... You at all worried about algae with the sun tubes?

Hi Timmy,

Thanks for following along.

I've never used sun tubes before so I have lots of worries about several things including algae! However, a number of others are using tubes and have not reported unmanageable problems. i believe keeping the water parameters in line with supplemental MHs should allow me to be successful.

I will say that I have only purchased one tube at this point and plan to install it, check its par readings and if all is well proceed with the other three (maybe a 5th over the refugium). I have to use 2 90 degree tube elbows and each 90 reduces intensity by @3%.

lewisjl481

11/02/2012, 02:19 PM

I'm following along, because I'd eventually like to build essentially the same tank only with one viewing panel. Any specific reason you went with the Blue Max liquid rubber vice a two-part epoxy?

Lavoisier

11/02/2012, 03:40 PM

I'm following along, because I'd eventually like to build essentially the same tank only with one viewing panel. Any specific reason you went with the Blue Max liquid rubber vice a two-part epoxy?

Hi Lewis,

I went with the liquid rubber for its flexibility long term, it will never get rigid and become susceptible to a stress fracture. I hoping this tank will be with me to my grave!

Addict0Reef

11/02/2012, 09:18 PM

lewisjl481

11/02/2012, 09:36 PM

I'm interested to see how it works out. I definitely want an 8'x4' tank, but I'm unsure if I want the 8' or 4' side to be visible. What are you doing for an overflow?

Lavoisier

11/02/2012, 11:13 PM

Interesting build, I am a fan of plywood construction and am following along. Thanks for sharing.

I suppose if you utilize the foam or concrete walls on the plywood sections of the tank my concerns listed below are kind of moot, but its good information nevertheless.

I have read in the past when coating these plywood tanks that urchins, puffer and trigger fish are a concern as they can damage coatings not hard enough to withstand their abrasive gnawing.

Over here at a dedicated plywood tank forum (http://fingerlakesreef.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=f3dfee3c63807e4a66e21d241090caca) most members recommend and utilize the pour method with epoxy. Its also a great place to pick up little tips here and there on how to construct your tank to last forever...well almost:spin3:

Another concern would be UV resistance of the Blue Max.

Have you considered coating with epoxy using the pour method?

Thanks Addict for the thoughts. I did spend alot of time considering the 2-part epoxy pour and I spent quite a bit of time on the great forum you linked. Blue max must be top coated if exposed to UV,,,another reason for the walls though I may end up with using a top coat.

I actually suspect a spiny urchin for causing a leak in my 180g. He had been "working" alone the front/side seem and may have gnaw enough to weaken the silicon seal! Then again it might have been coincidence... I will probably refrain from using them or puffers and triggers in the new tank.

Lavoisier

11/03/2012, 06:55 AM

Thanks Addict for the thoughts. I did spend alot of time considering the 2-part epoxy pour and I spent quite a bit of time on the great forum you linked. Blue max must be top coated if exposed to UV,,,another reason for the walls though I may end up with using a top coat.

I actually suspect a spiny urchin for causing a leak in my 180g. He had been "working" along the front/side seam and may have gnaw enough to weaken the silicon seal! Then again it might have been coincidence... I will probably refrain from using them or puffers and triggers in the new tank.

Sorry for the misspells...it was late!

karimwassef

11/03/2012, 08:25 AM

Lavoisier,

I've built a plywood tank before 8' x 4' x 3'. It was a back yard culturing tank with 4 small 1" acrylic sheets for windows.

Are you planning on using studs for structural support outside and/or fiberglass mesh for structural integrity (particularly on the seams)?

The epoxy/fiberglass builds provide structural strength and surface abrasion, not just for water sealing.

Plywood by itself is good in strain (pulled in length), but will bend and bow (pushed on the flat sides) without stud support - even 3/4". I would go studless up to 4x2x2 or bigger if it's a sump with internal baffles that will minimize the span of unsupported plywood, but a tank your size without studs feels dangerous.

I also considered the option of a pre-formed concrete tank (there are companies that do this). A concrete base is also an option. I personally found that working with concrete and cement to be easier and more robust for large structures. I built a concrete block sump/filter area for the outside tank with epoxy to seal it.

Great images, by the way.

Lavoisier

11/03/2012, 10:10 AM

I did not originally plan on a 2x4 frame for support. The Plywood forums that I researched seemed to consider it overkill. I did notice that most of the European builds used a 2x4 frame.

It would be easy enough to add 2x4s to the two non-viewing sides. The viewing sides would appear problematic. However, the two sides with glass are in effect 1.5” plywood as I will create a frame for the glass by laminating the ¾” frames (minus 1” for glass) to the tank. If I add studs to the two non-view sides would the tank feel less dangerous?

I decided against the 2-part epoxy due to reports that over time it does become rigid and susceptible to stress fracture. (EVERYTHING moves over time and even Kansas City experiences the odd earthquake now and again!) If the reports were wrong about epoxy I would welcome the information.

The Blue Max does add structural support to the coated wood but with 300% elasticity bowing would probably not be helped. A tape is used over joints with the liquid rubber and I will have 1” stock on the inside seams as well.
I am doing the stand this weekend and plan on the tank next weekend so I still have time to adjust if warranted.

I did actually give concrete serious consideration and it may still be in my future!

myfin

11/03/2012, 10:32 AM

Check out MDO plywood. Used on my 10' x 4' 1000 gal plywood/ MDO tank. I would worry about the 8 foot side with the flex caused by the water and the glass staying sealed and not flexing to much.

Lavoisier

11/03/2012, 01:03 PM

Lavoisier

11/03/2012, 01:14 PM

Check out MDO plywood. Used on my 10' x 4' 1000 gal plywood/ MDO tank. I would worry about the 8 foot side with the flex caused by the water and the glass staying sealed and not flexing to much.

MDO Plywood is apparently only sold at Menards which would mean an hour and a half round trip for me (Overland Park to St. Josephs) and it is more expensive than furniture grade, oak plywood. With the correct sealing and paint I'm not sure why it might be better. Why do you like it?

myfin

11/03/2012, 04:22 PM

My first tank was a plywood 3/4" 6 foot x 29" x 28" with starfire glass, I used a acrylic 1/2 cross brace dovetailed into the upper perimeter brace made of oak 3/4" x 2.5 inch. sealed with 2 part epoxy black. Had no problem of glass leakage. The tanks end was from water getting under the upper brace and rotting/ veneer separation of the plywood.

MDO plywood is almost water proof by itself. Used by sign makers and I think it is used in concrete forms. 3/4" x 4 ' x 8' MDO is heavy heavy.

My 10 foot tank walls are braced by 2" x 4" and 4" x 4" at corner and edges and glass opening edges. Poly urethane gorilla glue, pocket screws, lag bolts were also used. OVER KILL.

When I was testing the tank with water to the 41" level, WITHOUT the brace, I got 1/4" flex. Not bad. Used a 1" x 10" acrylic brace dovetailed into the 4 x 4 's

Lavoisier

11/03/2012, 04:46 PM

myfin, that sounds like a great tank! Do you have a build documented anywhere? If so, I'd love a link. If not, could you pm me a couple of pics, I do not entirely understand the way you are doing your braces. Also, is the 4x4 inside the tank at the corners? What about 2x4s, inside or outside?

Yes, I picked up in my perusing that MDO has outstanding water resistant qualities. I'll have to ponder that this week...

Lavoisier

11/03/2012, 04:57 PM

I finished the stand this afternoon (except for the painting which I will do this week after work). Cudos to RocketEngineer. I was impressed to begin with when I saw his design and read his explanation.

However, it was not until today when I built it that I truly understood the simple elegance of his design. Always the sign of good engineering! Highly recommend it to anyone building a big tank.

It took a little over 4 hours to construct--probably could be done in less time but I like to glue the load joints, and soap my screws. Home Depot saved me a ton of time (and vacuming saw dust) by doing ALL my cuts at no charge.

Here are the laid out raw materials.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40039.jpg

I used a box of 100 screws plus a handful (again probably used a few more than I really needed--I can't get over the great design! In the middle of the project:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40040.jpg

Finished! Time to celebrate:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40041.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40042.jpg

Off to watch the KState Wildcats!!

myfin

11/03/2012, 07:30 PM

Sorry no link of documentation for my 1000 gal.

To explain the tank and it use of 2x4 and 4x 4's ::::
Back wall of aquarium and floor are the same ( single piece 3/4 in. 4 ft. x 10 ft. MDO [spliced together] , 4 x 4 perimeter with 2 x 4's on 11 inch centers ) The MDO is the only surface inside the aquarium. the only difference with the front panel is the 8 x 2 glass opening. 54 - 1/2inch x 7 in lag bolts are holding the various panels together, as well as the corners of the 4 x 4's of the individual panels.

In my 220 gal tank. I also used cabinet grade plywood, that developed the veneer separation after 6 years.

Dovetailing the braces, is notching of the 4 x 4's (female) and cutting of the 1" x 10" x 53" acrylic so that is is inter-locked so they can hold each other together without be screwed together. See dovetailing of boxes or kitchen cabinets drawers. The difference being that the my aquarium brace was a simple dovetail. The dovetail is now covered by a trex like board.

The 1000 gal aquarium is in a greenhouse with (winter season) 3 - 100 w LED exoctica cannons on a moving track. I may need to add another cannon. ATS solar setup was not totally successful, have gone to a ATS LED waterfall nutrient removal system.

Addict0Reef

11/03/2012, 07:53 PM

I decided against the 2-part epoxy due to reports that over time it does become rigid and susceptible to stress fracture.

I have never built a plywood tank but have an interest and have done plenty of reading on the subject, so just my 2 cents advocating the use of epoxy. Of course its your build and it is interesting to see what alternate materials are available to withstand the rigors of a salt water reef environment and to discover their long term success...

Firstly, if the build does not cyclically bend or deflect (perhaps due to a surge effect) then stress fractures should not be a concern with epoxy. So its important for the design of the tank to be rigid enough to limit this deflection. Secondly, I feel the real culprit of stress fractures occurring is UV degradation of the epoxy coating. This can be controlled by adding pigments to the epoxy. You could also reinforce the epoxy with fiberglass at the corners of the build to augment the connection detail that you will use at this location. Another potential solution is that LED lighting does not produce UV light.

A concern I have with your stand (if complete) is the 8 foot - 2x6(?) material is only simply supported. Your sketch-up shows a functional sump so I assume you are not going to skin the stand front and back with plywood to essentially make it a rigid box. Have you considered adding more supports?

Lavoisier

11/04/2012, 02:02 AM

Thanks Addict for your thoughts on the 2-part epoxy. I will take them into consideration.

I did say that the stand was finished but I really misspoke and was referring only to the basic structure. I will sheath the two view sides (with doors) and I do intend to add "triangle glue blocks" on the 90 degree angles.

Lavoisier

11/04/2012, 02:12 AM

In my 220 gal tank. I also used cabinet grade plywood, that developed the veneer separation after 6 years.

I had not heard of this happening before so I appreciate your sharing it. I will look further into MDO. Maybe it can be special ordered at HD or a local lumber yard.

Lavoisier

11/05/2012, 05:52 PM

Okay, so I ran out of time yesterday and when I got home today it was raining in KC. I plan on enclosing this fragile tube with some sort of 2x4 (maybe 1x3)/sheathing structure and attaching it to the house with a bracket.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40045.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40046.jpg

Here it is inside (after dark unfortunately)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40.jpg

karimwassef

11/05/2012, 05:56 PM

who did you get your solar tube from?

Lavoisier

11/05/2012, 06:03 PM

who did you get your solar tube from?

This is a combination of ODL (I picked them up from a local source but can be purchased at Home Depot) and Sola Tubes (ODL does not make a 90 degree extension so I obtained the 90s from the local distributor).

Lavoisier

11/06/2012, 06:48 PM

Here are some thoughts on my aquascaping. I was planning on a rock wall but after doing some reading I am rethinking that choice. I would appreciate thoughts. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/images/smilies/read.gif

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquascapingwithguidelines.png

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquascapingwheightguide.png

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping1.png

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping2.png

karimwassef

11/06/2012, 08:45 PM

Looks good. I like adding caves, side-ledges, overhangs, bridge forms and multi-branch structures linking the different structures.

Lavoisier

11/07/2012, 04:57 PM

Thanks, Karim. I will indeed include your ideas for caves, side-ledges, overhangs, bridge forms and multi-branch structures. I'm not as gifted as you are with Sketchup so this above is pretty rough but the basic proportions are my plan at this point.

karimwassef

11/08/2012, 08:07 AM

Can you take a daylight picture of the light tube output? Do you have a Lux meter or PAR meter?

Lavoisier

11/08/2012, 08:41 AM

Can you take a daylight picture of the light tube output? Do you have a Lux meter or PAR meter?

Yes, I will this weekend (although after just now checking the weather it may be cloudy both Sat. and Sunday--very frustrating). I leave the house around sunrise right now and get back at dusk so I have not even seen how well it works (or doesn't) yet! I'm waiting to be sure I'm getting some level of significant light from this setup. If I do then I will purchase a PAR meter to be sure that four tubes will adequately light my system for at least 6 hours a day.

jadendo

11/08/2012, 10:01 AM

Subscribed! This is my dream being realized by someone else.

Lavoisier

11/08/2012, 11:07 AM

Subscribed! This is my dream being realized by someone else.

Hi Jadendo, thanks for following along. I hope you find some inspiration for your future build!

disciple

11/08/2012, 11:24 AM

How far of a run is the solar tube? Looks like you have a few bends and horizontal runs. I thought that you could only use them vertically, now I am thinking about solar tubes.

Lavoisier

11/08/2012, 01:06 PM

How far of a run is the solar tube? Looks like you have a few bends and horizontal runs. I thought that you could only use them vertically, now I am thinking about solar tubes.

I'll know as soon as I can be home on a sunny day! My run is about 4' and contains 2 90s. According to the research I found, which was a single study/paper, a 90 degree bend reduced the lumens @3%. Solatube manufactures the 90s and has no problem with using them. ODL told me they do not make 90s because they do not work!! We'll see soon if my set up works well enough or not.

A complicating factor for me is the height of my external tube. A Solatube rep is concerned I will not get the full benefit because the tube is not on my roof but I will be happy with about 6 hrs a day which my southern exposed wall should be able to give me even during the winter.

I should have some more information for you this weekend and then if it looks good I will publish PAR readings once the tank is constructed and filled with water.

karimwassef

11/08/2012, 01:56 PM

Please take a measurement outside and at the end to get a conduction efficiency too.

Lavoisier

11/08/2012, 02:43 PM

Please take a measurement outside and at the end to get a conduction efficiency too.

Will do. In fact, I'll get precise measurements on the inside for you as well.

Lavoisier

11/08/2012, 04:18 PM

The inside run is a total of 58" with an additional 9" horizontal then 48" to the top.

Lavoisier

11/09/2012, 01:54 PM

Creating a stronger frame for my build was suggested so I have come up with the follow (in red). On the other hand, I will doing biscuits, glue and screws so I'm not sure I want to add this frame. Thoughts appreciated

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/SupportFrameFrontview.png

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/SupportFrameBackview.png

karimwassef

11/09/2012, 02:26 PM

Lavoisier,

The broad side of a stud doesn't provide enough structural strength. The narrow side is what will support the stress.

Think of it like this... It you put the stud like a tight rope over two concrete blocks and walk on it with the broad side up, it will bend with your weight. But, if you put it narrow side up, it will bend significantly less.

You need to construct the supports so the bowing side is supported by the narrow side of the studs. The wider the wide side, the more support you get.. so a 2x6 supports more than a 2x4.

I would start by turning the studs 90 degrees.

With 8 ft or more on the window side, you may need a center brace above and below.

Addict0Reef

11/09/2012, 09:06 PM

My thoughts are you have a 30" deep tank by 8', you should be okay with coast to coast overflow @ the back, euro-braced on the two sides and the front and the addition of a center brace depending on thickness of your viewing panel. If you need a center brace and don't want it you can explore the possibility of specifying the thickness of the viewing panel so as to not require a center brace. Also another solution is to reinforce the top of the tank along the long viewing panel side with steel angle to provide the added bending resistance required.

Here are some pics (with the attached link to the thread) of an enormous build that is somewhat similar to yours courtesy of fingerlakesreef.com. (http://fingerlakesreef.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3343) Dimensions are 11'-11" x 4' x 4'. My belief is that the cleats (the 2x4 material attached vertically to the ends of this monster) are not required. So same goes for your build as your width dimension is the same and only 48". But again, as I have had concerns before, if surge is utilized then perhaps it is prudent to install cleats (mechanically fasten and glue cleat along the 1 1/2" dimension for maximum strength or bending resistance). Hope this gives you some ideas to pull from:spin2:

Lavoisier

11/10/2012, 12:50 AM

Wow, and I thought my tank was big! 1700 gallons!

On another note, I will "finish" the liquid rubber with a water based clear coat acrylic impervious to UV. There are several products available by Krylon and Minwax.

Lavoisier

11/10/2012, 12:13 PM

We have a sunny day in KC and my tube appears to be successful. I'll order a par meter this week and I'll know for sure after using something better than my eyeball.

The first two pics are earlier before the sun cleared the trees and the next two in direct sun.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40049.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40052.jpg

Direct sun:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40051.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40056.jpg

karimwassef

11/10/2012, 12:42 PM

Looks great! Can't wait for the data

Lavoisier

11/10/2012, 02:06 PM

Here is my plan for my sump. My question (probably a dumb one) is if I can create a slower flow chamber with the use of the two valves pictured below. This chamber would be used for macro algae.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Sump.png

Lavoisier

11/12/2012, 08:16 PM

I had some great help on a separate sump flow design thread (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2232911) so I'll post the current sump design here as well. I will change the cryptic tank to either half the size devoted to cryptic and the other half to macro algae or all macro. If you have thoughts on a cryptic tank or not I would appreciate feedback. In the process I also found what I thought was an interesting study on heat, evaporation, and dissolved oxygen in this study (http://maxwellsci.com/print/crjbs/%283%2972-77.pdf) done with 28 8'x4' tanks of three different depths 24", 30", 36" which showed an average evaporation loss of 1.2g per day.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Sump-1.png

Aquatron

11/12/2012, 08:47 PM

Saltydrip

11/13/2012, 07:56 PM

I did a 15'x6'x3.5' bass pond in my basement.

All the wood material was sealed in a poly based resin and got at least one ply of fiberglass. The basin its self was done with concrete block and sealed with ryno liner. Not the truck bed stuff but the original chemical sealant for inside chemical and potable water containers. I'm not sure how it would hold up against UV but I doubt salt would harm it. As a UV shield you could put a top coat of automotive or marine clear coat on top. Lots of money for all that but it would do the trick.

Saltydrip

11/13/2012, 08:00 PM

Now that I think of it.. A marine gel coat would be extreemly UV and salt resistant. It's the surface coat on fiberglass boats. It's typically not that pricy compared to paints and other resins. It would also have enough flexibility to deal with the flex in your walls.

ISMANU

11/13/2012, 08:06 PM

Lavoisier

11/14/2012, 10:34 AM

I am doing a cryptic aka duplex/refugium myself looking forward to how it goes using natural filter feeder's area. I know a macro algae refugium works been using them for year's.
I like your design and size...great looking build!
You want to get really Krazy install a upflow ATS on one of the walls between them doesn't have to be very large:)

I am leaning toward half cryptic for the filter feeder aspect. I had an interesting set of circumstances that occurred in my 90g. I experienced an aiptasia outbreak that I neglected until they dominated my tank. I introduced 2 nudibranches and a Copperband and eliminated the aiptasia (filter feeders) and then experienced a diatom explosion! I think the aiptasia, ugly as they are, effectively reduced my excess nutrients. I know they can be controlled biologically with copperbands (one of my favorite fish) and nudis so I will give them a try in my cryptic.

Lavoisier

11/14/2012, 10:39 AM

Yes I'd like to see a UAS scrubber installed in there too :)

SantaMonica, I have at several times in my aquatic experience contemplated an ATS and I love the concept. The ongoing maintenance (as little as it is) has kept me from pulling the trigger. As it is this build will stretch me thin with maintenance so as much as I respect and admire the feature I will hold off for now on including it. :(

I did a 15'x6'x3.5' bass pond in my basement.

All the wood material was sealed in a poly based resin and got at least one ply of fiberglass. The basin its self was done with concrete block and sealed with ryno liner. Not the truck bed stuff but the original chemical sealant for inside chemical and potable water containers. I'm not sure how it would hold up against UV but I doubt salt would harm it. As a UV shield you could put a top coat of automotive or marine clear coat on top. Lots of money for all that but it would do the trick.
Now that I think of it.. A marine gel coat would be extreemly UV and salt resistant. It's the surface coat on fiberglass boats. It's typically not that pricy compared to paints and other resins. It would also have enough flexibility to deal with the flex in your walls.

Salty, interesting build. Did you use glass for viewing or all from the top? The liquid plastic I am using requires a waterbased product to adhere to it so my UV protection will come with the use of a latex acrylic coating that is fairly common today--both Krylon and Miniwax market it.

Not trying to TJ but does anyone have any plans on how to do a UAS I have seen them mentioned in a few places but haven't found anything on how to build one

Ismanu, not at all. I'm interested in the link as well...always have things to learn.

karimwassef

11/14/2012, 01:10 PM

Did you collect PAR readings?

Lavoisier

11/14/2012, 02:00 PM

Did you collect PAR readings?

I just yesterday ordered my Apogee sensor (SQ-120: Electric Calibration Quantum Sensor) and Digital Multimeter (a DT830B) so I'm hoping to have them by Saturday and take some initial readings at what will the water surface and what will be the bottom of the tank.

jag10016

11/14/2012, 02:11 PM

Very smart that you used the self leveling cement good idea!

Luckless

11/14/2012, 02:43 PM

Have you considered using a wider collector for your solar tube? You can pump a surprising amount of light through a very small reflector pipe, and then use a defuser to spread it out more.

Seen that used once in a bunker system to bring natural light down. 1/4 inch reflective pipe lighting a ceiling of a basketball court + seating area. You do have to be careful and not go over board with it, as you still have a fair bit of heat to deal with if you concentrate it too much.

Can be a good option if you find you are not getting as much light as you want, especially in northern location where we naturally get less light than southern latitudes you're trying to recreate.

Another good option is to add a Diaphragm/Iris on your collecting end, that way you can stop it down and let a little less light in during the summers, then open it back up again as fall rolls around.

Lavoisier

11/14/2012, 02:53 PM

Very smart that you used the self leveling cement good idea!

Thanks, Jag. I do like the finished product. However, if I were to do it again with such a large area I could have done it cheaper with several bags of regular cement and a final bag or two of self-leveling.

Have you considered using a wider collector for your solar tube? You can pump a surprising amount of light through a very small reflector pipe, and then use a defuser to spread it out more.

Seen that used once in a bunker system to bring natural light down. 1/4 inch reflective pipe lighting a ceiling of a basketball court + seating area. You do have to be careful and not go over board with it, as you still have a fair bit of heat to deal with if you concentrate it too much.

Luckless, that is an intriguing idea. I am a novice at this approach to lighting, do you have any more information or links to wider solar collectors?

Kind Regards.

Saltydrip

11/14/2012, 05:17 PM

We put 2 2ft round windows in the side so you could look in. They were 1" lexan pieces a friend donated to the build.

We stocked it with the typical PA farm pond inhabitants. Filtration and flow was done via an old pool setup we ended up with after filling in an old pool on a landscape job. It was up and running about a year befor we started finding humidity issues in the exposed lumber above it. The hole think only cost me about a grand but it was low temp low light freshwater.

lowbudget

11/15/2012, 01:12 AM

do you have to run any filters when using the solar tubes? i know some people running outdoor systems then have filters over their tanks

Lavoisier

11/15/2012, 09:45 AM

I have seen one thread where the OP used a type of blue mesh filter to gain a higher Kelvin (color) of light. Such a filter may well be necessary for me as well. My first task is to insure that my "irregular" tube design will provide adequate PAR for my tank (I hope to start assessing this weekend) and then the issue of color will need to be tackled.

lowbudget

11/16/2012, 12:14 AM

my concern is not the kelvin, but with the sun being so bright might have to tone it down or filter out some of the red spectrum????

Lavoisier

11/16/2012, 01:28 PM

my concern is not the kelvin, but with the sun being so bright might have to tone it down or filter out some of the red spectrum????

Yes, I see your point. I have only looked at 3 or 4 solar tube set ups to date and heat had not been a problem. I'll have to wait and see if my system does produce too much heat. The blue filters do reduce the reds and yellows in natural sunlight so I would be able to use those filters to reduce the red spectrum.

Lavoisier

11/16/2012, 04:19 PM

Looks great! Glad to be able to follow you in this journey!

Thanks Central for following along.

karimwassef

11/16/2012, 07:02 PM

Can you measure any temperature rise at the tube outputs?

lowbudget

11/17/2012, 02:24 AM

thanks im following cause i plan on doing this after the winter in socal.

Lavoisier

11/17/2012, 02:51 PM

Can you measure any temperature rise at the tube outputs?

No heat from the tube!

muttley000

11/18/2012, 06:18 AM

Following your build as I plan a plywood project in the future. Have you made a decision on the bracing yet?

Also glad to be aware of the larger collector on the solar tube, a useful idea as I am north of where I would have guessed these were really useful.

Lavoisier

11/18/2012, 01:05 PM

I posted this on the lighting forum but wanted to put it here for possible help as well.

I cannot get a reading from my new par meter setup. I will call Apogee but in the meantime if I am doing something obviously wrong I would appreciate the correction.

The multimeter is the 83 series (40508) digital. The sensor is SQ-120. I will get brief random readings when I turn the meter to 200m but then it goes to 00.0 or 00.1 under any light at all (including natural sunlight).

Any help?

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/PARMeter002.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/PARMeter003.jpg

Luckless

11/18/2012, 01:36 PM

Lavoisier

11/18/2012, 02:10 PM

Before going much farther toward pulling your hair out, have you confirmed your multimeter is actually working?

As for solar collectors for solar tubes, I'm actually kind of surprised I'm not seeing much about them in general commercial offerings. All the ones I've seen were custom designed for their application, as none of the systems were off the shelf commercial.

I would have to sit down and do some ray tracing to figure out what would be the most effective shapes to use that would be easy to build at home. Polishing a large lens likely isn't the easiest thing for a lot of people to do, but a crude reflector should do the job nicely. The good thing is for an application like this is that we don't really have to worry about how the light is shaped, as you're likely going to want to defuse it anyway, not capture a crystal clear image. (My other hobbies include things like optics, photography, and astronomy.)

Luckless, yes, I was able to get an accurate measurement on a 9v battery so the meter seems to be working. Is it possible that an inexpensive meter will not "read" mV?

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on more effective ways to capture natural light from the perspective of your other hobbies. I've always found cross discipline thinking to be the most productive in coming up with new ways of thinking.

I still have not done a search on larger collectors but should have some time this week to look into that possibility as well.

Lavoisier

11/19/2012, 01:46 PM

Spoke with Apogee and determined it was a faulty sensor. (By the way, in the picture the red lead is plugged into the resistance input rather than flow but I had just checked both sides to try any reading at all)

Lavoisier

11/21/2012, 11:44 AM

I just realized I have the wrong size biscuits (10) for 3/4" ply. I need 0. However, never having done this before, I do not know how far apart to center this size. Do I cut them 3" edge to edge like a 10 or a shorter distance for more biscuits (adding glue surface)?

I could not find anything from my google search so thanks in advance. I am on my way to HD to exchange the biscuits and will ask there but I hope someone sees this post before I get back to confirm whatever I hear at HD.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/MP40059.jpg

Photobug

11/21/2012, 02:13 PM

I could not find anything from my google search so thanks in advance. I am on my way to HD to exchange the biscuits and will ask there but I hope someone sees this post before I get back to confirm whatever I hear at HD.

I usually hear "Um I don't know" at Home Depot.

I think the biscuits are there for alignment as much as gluing surface.

I am not sure where you are using them, are you butt joining the ply or making corners with the biscuits? Is the plywood going to be structural or just facing? I would just put biscuits every 10" or so, glue and clamp and let the glue do the work.

Go to woodnet.net for expert advise on woodworking.

Lavoisier

11/21/2012, 06:18 PM

Thanks Photobug. I am doing butt joints and the plywood is structural. One site suggested a minimum of 3" between #10 biscuits. I will be using screws as well as biscuits.

Conspiculatus

11/21/2012, 11:13 PM

Best of luck on your build. Keep us updated.

Photobug

11/22/2012, 12:16 AM

Thanks Photobug. I am doing butt joints and the plywood is structural. One site suggested a minimum of 3" between #10 biscuits. I will be using screws as well as biscuits.

In that case I would back up the joint with a reinforcement. If you have the space on the back size a 6" or more wide piece of plywood. After the butt joint with biscuits has dried I would cut a piece of plywood 6" wide and overlap either side of the joint by 3" and glue the surface over the joint. If you are going to have a wood frame around the top or bottom or both. Leave the splice reinforcement short of that area.

Lavoisier

11/24/2012, 12:49 PM

Slow progress over Thanksgiving. I started constructing the sump. As one wise RC build suggested practice building with sump before the DT! The box is complete, I'll work on the baffles, sock holder, etc., this week:

Biscuits:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40064.jpg

Up to my elbows:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40063.jpg

A seam done!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40067.jpg

I received the par meter from Apogee and have set it up to record a day of solar at 21"

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40070.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40069.jpg

And finally a few "goodies" I'm looking forward to actually using:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40068.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40071.jpg

hatcher2014

11/24/2012, 03:38 PM

Wow amazing build have enjoyed reading every post. I almost had a plywood tank built when I lived in Ohio but moved to oregon to spend time with my mom who was diagnosed with terminal lung cancer lost her in oct sorry got off track. But I had a friend in Ohio that had built several plywood tanks and had a 8x4 himself awesome tank. Also I'm not sure if I didn't catch it or not but what plywood did you decide to go with I was going to use marine but never got to do the build. Can't wait to read more on your progress. Also I'm originally from MO but my dad is from KC born raised Wyndotte county. So planning on making a trip back home next year and hopefully can swing through and see this beauty.

Lavoisier

11/24/2012, 04:40 PM

Thank you, Hatcher, for the kind words. Look forward to seeing you in KC. Hopefully, I'll be done by the time you visit your Father. I'm from Oregon originally. Great country. I'm sorry about your Mother...we lost my Father-in-law (Oregon City) two months ago.

I'm using a furniture grade plywood (oak). With the liquid rubber and painting the plywood is fully sealed and protected. If the coatings fail any plywood will also fail, even if it is marine grade.

jcm2m9

11/24/2012, 08:09 PM

Have you posted this on Kansas City local local saltwater message board? I am sure there are a bunch of members that would love to help you out.

salt-city.org

rogergolf66

11/24/2012, 10:03 PM

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing the progress

CyclistMT

11/25/2012, 12:21 AM

Looking good Lavoisier!

I'm so jealous. I really wanted to do sola tubes but couldn't find a reasonable way to do it with my tank in the basement. Looks like you have found a way. Looking forward to those par readings!

Current music selection: 10 Years - Backlash

jerpa

11/25/2012, 08:01 AM

I'm interested in the PAR readings from your unconventional solar tubes as well. I notice the sensor isn't leveled. You can remove that screw to have it sit flat. Just be aware your readings will likely be 10-20% lower than they actually are.

jdpiii3

11/25/2012, 08:53 AM

Great looking build. I'm happy to see others trying out the solar tube lighting.

Lavoisier

11/25/2012, 01:57 PM

I'm so jealous. I really wanted to do sola tubes but couldn't find a reasonable way to do it with my tank in the basement. Looks like you have found a way. Looking forward to those par readings!

No need to be jealous, I'm not getting anywhere near enough light. Par readings at 21" (no water) are running 11-12 and right at the glass 67-69! Very disappointed.

Oh well...the best laid plans. I'll have to set up with my 3-400w MH and do a build for leds eventually.

Conspiculatus

11/25/2012, 08:21 PM

You are a very brave individual to use plywood to construct an aquarium. Consider for a moment how often plywood boats need their hauls redone in marine environments.

Killgore

11/25/2012, 08:57 PM

Following along! Looks good so far! Good luck!

CyclistMT

11/25/2012, 09:50 PM

No need to be jealous, I'm not getting anywhere near enough light. Par readings at 21" (no water) are running 11-12 and right at the glass 67-69! Very disappointed.

Oh well...the best laid plans. I'll have to set up with my 3-400w MH and do a build for leds eventually.

Lav, didn't you say you set up the meter to record a day of activity? I don't have a meter yet so I don't know how they work but could that have been an average of the day rather than a max? If it was an average, you should try taking a reading at different parts of the day to see what you get. Also, it's winter up here in the northern hemisphere which I would think would give you lower par readings right now due to the angle of the sun. And as jerpa said, get that sensor flat so it collects the photons at the right angle. I think you will still have to supplement but maybe you can still use the solar tubes to some degree.

You are a very brave individual to use plywood to construct an aquarium. Consider for a moment how often plywood boats need their hauls redone in marine environments.

I would say he is a very savvy individual to follow in the footsteps of the rest of us plywood tank builders. I would encourage you to tank a better look around. There are at least 6 active plywood builds/finished tanks on Reef Central right now and probably more than a dozen successful builds in the past few years here.

And there several other boards with plywood tank builds that don't have a build thread here. Plywood tanks have been built all over the world with great success.

There are tried and true methods to building these tanks.

karimwassef

11/26/2012, 12:53 AM

All DIY are by definition brave, industrious, and savvy...

Lavoisier

11/26/2012, 01:53 PM

Very nice. Looking forward to seeing the progress Thanks for the compliment. I’m glad your following along.

Great looking build. I'm happy to see others trying out the solar tube lighting. I fear that without a more powerful lens on the collection end of the tube I will have tried but failed!
Following along! Looks good so far! Good luck! Thanks, Killgore.

Lav, didn't you say you set up the meter to record a day of activity? I don't have a meter yet so I don't know how they work but could that have been an average of the day rather than a max? If it was an average, you should try taking a reading at different parts of the day to see what you get. Also, it's winter up here in the northern hemisphere which I would think would give you lower par readings right now due to the angle of the sun. And as jerpa said, get that sensor flat so it collects the photons at the right angle. I think you will still have to supplement but maybe you can still use the solar tubes to some degree.

Thanks, Cyclist for the encouragement. I did level out the sensor and will take readings for the rest of the week. I will likely leave the tube in place and continue to monitor (Summer may be a different ballgame altogether). At this point I will hold off purchasing the other 4 tubes I had planned. I would guess that with a more effective "collecter" lens this set up would work. Whether such a lens is doable (cost, expertise in crafting, etc.) will have to be seen.

All DIY are by definition brave, industrious, and savvy... Now you’re talking my language!!

ELGUAP0

11/28/2012, 12:42 AM

Nice build Lav. I am from the KC area as well....Missouri side. I am starting a build of my own as well. It is nice to see that I am not the only crazy one in this area.

Crazy_Beaver

11/28/2012, 08:50 AM

Looking really good!I ll be following!:wavehand:

All the best!

Lavoisier

11/29/2012, 01:52 PM

Nice build Lav. I am from the KC area as well....Missouri side. I am starting a build of my own as well. It is nice to see that I am not the only crazy one in this area.

Thank you, Elguapo. Yes, at least two of us crazy ones inKC! :fun4: I hope you will be able to post your build as you get started. It is enlightening as well as entertaining to see other’s builds.

Looking really good!I ll be following!:wavehand:

All the best!

Thank you for the encouragement. I'm glad your following along.:rollface:

ELGUAP0

11/29/2012, 04:03 PM

Thank you, Elguapo. Yes, at least two of us crazy ones inKC! :fun4: I hope you will be able to post your build as you get started. It is enlightening as well as entertaining to see other’s builds.

Thank you for the encouragement. I'm glad your following along.:rollface:

My friends and family have been more than willing to let me know they think I'm out of my mind building a tank this size. My project is slow going. Right now I am in the middle of reinforcing the basement floor. I just didn't think the floor was thick enough to support the kind of weight of 600 gallons of water. When I get past the boaring stuff and to the actual build I will be starting my own thread.

Lavoisier

11/29/2012, 05:22 PM

My 1 1/2" Sea Swirls arrived! I've got to get this tank built to get this neat equipment into service.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/MP40073.jpg

Lavoisier

11/29/2012, 05:23 PM

My friends and family have been more than willing to let me know they think I'm out of my mind building a tank this size. My project is slow going. Right now I am in the middle of reinforcing the basement floor. I just didn't think the floor was thick enough to support the kind of weight of 600 gallons of water. When I get past the boaring stuff and to the actual build I will be starting my own thread.

Taking it slow and doing it right is always the best course. Sounds like you are doing just that.

hatcher2014

01/03/2013, 10:09 PM

Havent heard or seen any up dates just wondering how everything is going.

hatcher2014

01/03/2013, 10:10 PM

Just hope that you got alot of work done over the Christmas and New Years holidays.

benc87

01/20/2013, 08:25 PM

asome build. live in springfield mo and am goin to do skylights on both sides of my peak since my tank is in what used to be a hallway then have them feed into the tank. Did you ever get better readings

Lavoisier

01/21/2013, 07:42 AM

Just hope that you got alot of work done over the Christmas and New Years holidays.

Havent heard or seen any up dates just wondering how everything is going.

Sorry, hatcher, for the tardy response. Our household got hit twice with flu so I could not do any work over the holidays! I did get started again yesterday--I cut about 2/3 of the biscuit slots for the main tank (there are a lot of them when your throw in the C2C and braces!!). I hope to finish the cuts today and begin assembling. I'll add a couple of picks later.

asome build. live in springfield mo and am goin to do skylights on both sides of my peak since my tank is in what used to be a hallway then have them feed into the tank. Did you ever get better readings

I have not gotten better readings so I believe that without a custom lens my current tube will not be functional. I have left it in for the time being as I do want to explore the lens possibility somewhere down the line. I do love solar tubes and will look forward to pics of your build.

Kind Regards

Lavoisier

01/21/2013, 04:17 PM

It felt great to start working on the project again.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Biscuitssolidside_zpscb2aa432.jpg

Cutting biscuits slots for solid side piece.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/C2Cbiscuits_zpsc95663b0.jpg

Biscuit slots for the C2C. I'll put the overflow box together and then add it to the back of the tank.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Tankbox_zps7e69aa2b.jpg

Finally!! the tank is together and I can start with the liquid rubber sealant.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Tanksideglass_zps898c8012.jpg

View through the front towards the glass side.

karimwassef

01/21/2013, 06:12 PM

Welcome back Lavoisier. You were missing for a while.

Lavoisier

01/21/2013, 08:32 PM

Thank you karim. Nasty flu season! Its nice to feel healthy again. I noticed you were looking at some interesting ideas for a valve. I'm looking forward to catching up on your build as well.

karimwassef

01/21/2013, 10:06 PM

The diverter valve works (got videos) and I am installing it now. Just need my sump done. Applying epoxy on the bare plywood without fiberglass was more challenging than I thought. A uniform distribution is hard on a large surface, even with multiple small pours. I was suffering with bubbles, but the propane torch fixed that.

Lavoisier

02/24/2013, 12:07 PM

I posted this message on the filtration forum but want to post it here as well. Here is the current design on my 400g build (Reeflo Hammerhead Gold):

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/C2CBeanReturn_zps089e2905.png

I am cutting the holes in the C2C today or tomorrow and would like to gravity feed the skimmer with the surface water and its higher organic content. Would having a 4th drain to the skimmer effect the Bean Animal performance? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/BeanAnimalquestionC2C_zps7205bb23.png

Midwestmade

02/24/2013, 04:22 PM

Very cool thanks for sharing!

karimwassef

02/24/2013, 10:05 PM

Lavoisier, I am doing the same but with a pump driven from the overflow instead of gravity fed.

I can't comment on its success since it is still in progress.

C Dog

02/25/2013, 07:52 PM

I would say the problem with the solar tubes is that they are not on the roof to collect better angles of the sun. Also having them run horizontal & with 90 degree angles probably cuts a lot of the light output. I would call the manufacturer and see what they say.

Lavoisier

03/16/2013, 04:47 PM

Some progress today--a few pics.

The first two baffles in the sump.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613003_zpsf591a604.jpg

My "sock" filter structure--this idea came from Sweden: (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2211539)--great thread, by the way.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613004_zps23142b43.jpg

1.5" closed loop outlet

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613005_zps4133a3ae.jpg

C2C Bean Animal return outlets

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613006_zpscef7bf35.jpg

Skimmer outlet

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613007_zps59f74965.jpg

Frames for the starfire glass--hopefully installed in 2-3 weeks--getting closer!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613008_zps47024e16.jpg

A couple of freebees--Christmas in Kansas--grandsons and Son and family.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613001_zps70bb6748.jpg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613002_zps64a86f35.jpg

salty joe

03/16/2013, 05:46 PM

Looking good. Good call on Starfire. My only concern is what appears to be metal bolts in the sock basket. That basket is a neat idea.

JayVIP

03/19/2013, 06:53 PM

Lavoisier

03/20/2013, 04:28 AM

Nice build. I haven't seen many plywood builds with overflows. I'd be curious to see what you do for the filter teeth to prevent large debris and fish from getting into the overflow or are you just going to leave it open?

Thank you, Jay. I will not use "teeth" as I am seeking a smooth flow over the weir. I will use a a clear plastic mesh. I am planning on three screens to cover the tank with about 6 inches of lose mesh to "drape" into the overflow. If I get a chance today I'll do a SketchUp graphic. I'm not sure about the design as I have not seen anyone do what I have in mind so I fear I am overlooking something! :deadhorse1:

I'll look forward to input.

2noob4u

03/20/2013, 11:22 AM

Amazing build!
A true "thumbs up"
http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/28/thumbsupbd.jpg

McPuff

03/20/2013, 12:21 PM

Wow, this is the kind of build that most people simply dream about. It's very cool to see someone turn that dream into reality. I'm eager to follow along on the progress. I'm also a big fan of your celebratory scotch... maybe add some Arthur Bryants and you've got a winning combo! I haven't been there in years but I do have some of their sauce and meat rub in my kitchen. So good!

Lavoisier

03/20/2013, 02:52 PM

Looking good. Good call on Starfire. My only concern is what appears to be metal bolts in the sock basket. That basket is a neat idea.

I am looking forward to the clarity in the glass. Those bolts do appear to be metal in the photo but they are a hard plastic.

Lavoisier

03/20/2013, 02:55 PM

hkarmy25

04/05/2013, 03:34 PM

I know I Just jumped in, but definitely time for an update!

Lavoisier

04/05/2013, 05:42 PM

I'm almost done with the liquid rubber seal (5-7 coats) and will post some pics tomorrow.

hkarmy25

04/05/2013, 08:34 PM

Actually I have a question about that as well. How is it with silicone? I've heard people having trouble with getting it to stick to aquaguard, is it the same case?

guezei

04/06/2013, 10:00 AM

Why would you use plywood? Plywood will eventually rot when a small leak develops in the epoxy shell. A HD form core would last much longer and never rot. There is a reason why they stopped building boats with wood cores. They all rotted.

Lavoisier

04/06/2013, 10:23 AM

Actually I have a question about that as well. How is it with silicone? I've heard people having trouble with getting it to stick to aquaguard, is it the same case?

Yes, my understanding is that one should not use silicone sealant with a liquid rubber coating. I am aware of two ways to tackle this issue: polyurethane sealant or putting a coat of epoxy over the rubber around the glass then using silicone. I am leaning toward the first solution because its simpler. Having examined the materials sheet I do not see an issue with the chemistry of polyurethane once cured. However, I am not absolutely sure about that and would appreciate anyone's informed advice on the polyurethane calk.

The second approach will take a little more time but may be what I end up with for purely risk aversion reasons.

I will also put a UV seal over the rubber.

Why would you use plywood? Plywood will eventually rot when a small leak develops in the epoxy shell. A HD form core would last much longer and never rot. There is a reason why they stopped building boats with wood cores. They all rotted.

I'm not using epoxy...and that is not why they stopped building wooden core boats. Lots of wood core boats around. If you ever get to Boston visit the USS Constitution!

salty joe

04/06/2013, 11:54 AM

Thank you, Jay. I will not use "teeth" as I am seeking a smooth flow over the weir. I will use a a clear plastic mesh. I am planning on three screens to cover the tank with about 6 inches of lose mesh to "drape" into the overflow. If I get a chance today I'll do a SketchUp graphic. I'm not sure about the design as I have not seen anyone do what I have in mind so I fear I am overlooking something! :deadhorse1:

I'll look forward to input.

I built a tank almost exactly your size (nowhere near done, but have run water through it) and used a smooth weir. To keep critters out of the coast to coast, I siliconed plastic mesh inside the return about 3" from the top of the weir. Then I bent the mesh at a 90 and another 90 to bring it straight up. So the mesh runs vertically where it's siliconed to the return, horizontally for an inch or two, then vertically out of the water. This way, the mesh does not interefere with a smooth weir. Silicone will not stick to plastic mesh, but it sticks to epoxy. The silicone is used as a mechanical fastener as it goos all around and over the mesh. Works real well.

The bottom of your retrurn will add stiffness to the back wall. What is your final plan to stiffen the front? When you do your first fill, can I suggest fastening a tight string lengthwise on the top middle of your tank? As you fill, take measurments from the string and you'll know how much the front is bowing and how much the back is bowing, rather than how much the tank is bowing.
BTW, the back wall of my tank bowed 1/32" and the front viewing panel (3/4" starfire braced with 3x4x3/16 steel angle, 4" side horizontal) bowed 3/32" for a total of 1/8" bow.

How much BlueMax did you use? Just curious, have you heard of it used for a tank before?

hkarmy25

04/06/2013, 12:27 PM

If you used epoxy, which is the way I'm leaning, how much would you buy to cover the front panel around the glass?

Lavoisier

04/06/2013, 12:29 PM

I built a tank almost exactly your size (nowhere near done, but have run water through it) and used a smooth weir. To keep critters out of the coast to coast, I siliconed plastic mesh inside the return about 3" from the top of the weir. Then I bent the mesh at a 90 and another 90 to bring it straight up. So the mesh runs vertically where it's siliconed to the return, horizontally for an inch or two, then vertically out of the water. This way, the mesh does not interefere with a smooth weir. Silicone will not stick to plastic mesh, but it sticks to epoxy. The silicone is used as a mechanical fastener as it goos all around and over the mesh. Works real well.

Excellent idea. Thank you, I'll set mine up the same way, although I'll need to use polyurethane calk instead of silicone. :strange:

The bottom of your return will add stiffness to the back wall. What is your final plan to stiffen the front? When you do your first fill, can I suggest fastening a tight string lengthwise on the top middle of your tank? As you fill, take measurments from the string and you'll know how much the front is bowing and how much the back is bowing, rather than how much the tank is bowing.

I like your string idea as well and will use it. In addition to the 4" euro braces around the edges of the tank and 2 layers of 3/4" plywood for front and side viewing panels, I have put in two braces on the top dividing the tank into 1/3rds. If I get more bowing I'll look at some additional support. One of the nice aspects of our builds is the flexibility inherent in plywood/glass.

How much BlueMax did you use? Just curious, have you heard of it used for a tank before?

I purchased 5 gals and have used about 1/2 of at this point (5 coats so far). Ames' Labs recommends 30 mils (thickness of a dime) and I'm not sure if I'm quite there yet. I think I'll just end up using all of it on the build (tank, 2 sumps, & frag) even though I'm "over engineering it." I know of a couple of liquid rubber tanks but I do not think either used Blue Max, which I found in my research of the material.

Kind Regards

Lavoisier

04/06/2013, 12:50 PM

Blue Max 1st coat

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613001_zpsabea0daf.jpg

1st coat

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613009_zpsc7d524d4.jpg

This is the tape to use after 2nd coat

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613006_zpsb25d5393.jpg

It is easy to apply

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613003_zps2a1120ff.jpg

Display tank taped

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613002_zps55515122.jpg

Sump taped

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613007_zpsebe2ca7b.jpg

3rd coat DT

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613005_zpsccdfd730.jpg

3rd coat sump

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613008_zps67c646dc.jpg

4th coat DT

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/31613004_zpsd06c2069.jpg

Lavoisier

04/06/2013, 12:54 PM

If you used epoxy, which is the way I'm leaning, how much would you buy to cover the front panel around the glass?

The rubber has sealed the tank so I would just need enough epoxy to serve as a "bonder" for the silicone. I would think a single coat would suffice so not very much at all. In fact, I could probably get away with an epoxy paint rather than use 2 part.

salty joe

04/06/2013, 03:25 PM

When I caulked the mesh to the overflow, I used a straight piece of wood and wedged it against the mesh to hold it in place until the silicone cured. I put a piece of wax paper between the wood and mesh.

With your center bracing, I'd guess you'll be fine. You might want to watch the sides for excess bowing.

I used no center bracing and no Euro bracing-lots of different ways to get there. You are so right about, in terms of making changes, the flexibility of a plywood tank.

Looking good!

Slawdude

04/07/2013, 05:38 PM

Lavoisier

04/08/2013, 01:15 PM

Hi Lavoisier,

I came across your build researching solar lighting for my new system.

Having read everything I can get my hands on over the last three months on solar tubes, skylights et al I thought you may try using solid tubing for your light duct to lift the output. Apparently the concertina style tube can reduce throughput by over 70% and that is just for a straight run, yours looks like it goes through two angles?

The 14' tube will also deliver double again the amount of light over the 10s. If that is a possibility.

You may have already tried this of course however your difficulties are similar to mine in terms of getting high PAR from each tube.

Best wishes,

Thanks, Slawdude. I'm not sure I know what a "solid tube" is. Can you send me a link? Yes, I have two 90s. I would have gone with a 14" tube but I had to bring the tube in between my floor joists and could only fit a 10. :mad:

If you have a build send a link, I would like to take a peek.

Regards

Slawdude

04/09/2013, 02:11 PM

By "Solid tube" i mean the 1mm aluminium walled tube, not the flexible/expandable duct that they sell in a lot of hardware places. It totally kills the light. In looking back over your journal I think I mistook one of your pics of ventilation duct as something you were using in your daylight system?

Here's a link to my current build;

http://www.masa.asn.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=148&t=248587

In going for the 14inch tubes I had to cut and brace a few joists and rafters as well, maybe an option for you? The light throughput of a 14 is double a 10 so i hope this will be worth it.

Please note that my position at the moment on solar tubes is based on a lot of reading and talking to fellow aquarists doing similar things, not first hand experience. I will be able to share that with you in the coming months!

erics3000

04/10/2013, 12:15 AM

Tagging along..Nice build so faar

Crazy_Beaver

04/10/2013, 07:14 AM

Nice progress!Cant wait to see this stocked!

KStatefan

04/10/2013, 08:36 AM

Nice Job. This looks like a huge project.
I would like to build a tank sometime but probably never will.

Lavoisier

04/10/2013, 11:31 AM

Lavoisier

04/10/2013, 12:57 PM

Tagging along..Nice build so faar

Thanks, Eric.

Nice progress!Cant wait to see this stocked!

You and me both! I appreciate your kind words.

Nice Job. This looks like a huge project.
I would like to build a tank sometime but probably never will.

Thank you, KState (go Wildcats!!) It is a huge project and certainly has to be approached with patience. Don't say never...I've been in the hobby for decades and only now have the circumstances come together to build my "dream" tank.

Regards

Aquaculture76

04/18/2013, 09:45 PM

Congrats on the build!!! I myself am planning a build soon (72"L x 48"W x 32"H...although water line will be at 27" to have room for the wave effect). My question is, wouldn't taking 2 sheets of plywood sandwiched together then routed out in the middle, creating a "true" eurobrace be sufficient to avoid any bowing in any direction when mounting the 2 sheets on the top of the tank?
I am not an engineer, but I have seen many acrylic tanks done this way, just thought it might work in the plywood tank builds too.

Lavoisier

04/27/2013, 03:44 PM

Finally, I finished the liquid rubber.\

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613024_zps8da813d9.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613024_zps8da813d9.jpg.html)

Cryptic tank. I put in the baffles in case I decide to only use half of this tank for cryptic.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613025_zps1a043e04.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613025_zps1a043e04.jpg.html)

Another view of the 140g cryptic tank:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613026_zps6bb31c75.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613026_zps6bb31c75.jpg.html)

Final Blue Max coat in the sump:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613027_zps8cc14682.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613027_zps8cc14682.jpg.html)

Another view of the sump:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613028_zps5e939034.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613028_zps5e939034.jpg.html)

The frag tank:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613029_zps885a89b8.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613029_zps885a89b8.jpg.html)

The UV Acrylic coating

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613023_zps07db4793.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613023_zps07db4793.jpg.html)

I poured a bit into the DT and then brushed and rolled it over the surface:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613030_zpsdfb5f30f.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613030_zpsdfb5f30f.jpg.html)

It may be hard to see but the acrylic coating adds a high gloss finish to the surfaces:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613031_zpsc0f26105.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/31613031_zpsc0f26105.jpg.html)

I should finish 3 coats of the acrylic which then requires 2 weeks to cure. Hopefully, I will install the glass in 2 weeks! In the meantime (next weekend) I will begin my aquascaping.

Slawdude

04/27/2013, 10:45 PM

Hi Lavoisier,

Looks like your system is coming along nicely! I can't wait to see it wet.

I got my tubes in and more than happy with the PAR output. It is only useful (SPS) PAR between 10 and 2 but 4 hours at the levels I am getting should translate to some great growth! It makes a big difference to bring the tube quite close to the water surface (6 inches).

Getting 250 to 350 midway down a 24 inch deep tank and 150 to 200 on the sand. Up to 1600 at the end of the tube! The sun is disappearing behind the neighbours tree at about 2.30 as it is quite low (Autumn here), I am thinking of offering him some free trimming services :)

Have you had any more luck with your daylight system?

Chicago

04/28/2013, 05:20 AM

Looking good

Crazy_Beaver

04/28/2013, 02:52 PM

Getting there!

Lavoisier

05/05/2013, 03:31 PM

Work took my Saturday away yesterday but I spent several hours this afternoon working on my aquascaping. I decided to do this before putting the glass in because it made working on the structures so much easier. I am also spatially challenged so I need all the help I can get! I am using the three wonderful articles by Paul Whitby, Aesthetics of Aquascaping, as my resource and inspiration. I did not get to the actual drilling the rocks but hopefully will complete next weekend...or at least get started...

PVC materials--about $35 and included 30ft of 3/4" pipe. (sorry for the fuzzy pic)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513001_zps076bbc2d.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513001_zps076bbc2d.jpg.html)

At the workbench

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513002_zps4fb8a5f8.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513002_zps4fb8a5f8.jpg.html)

1st structure

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513003_zpsce8af756.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513003_zpsce8af756.jpg.html)

Another view of 1st structure

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513004_zps2c41f58f.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513004_zps2c41f58f.jpg.html)

2nd structure

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513006_zps9552f511.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513006_zps9552f511.jpg.html)

2nd structure from side view panel

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513005_zps02f25eca.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513005_zps02f25eca.jpg.html)

Both structures from end of front view panel

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513007_zpsc02a0a23.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513007_zpsc02a0a23.jpg.html)

I am attempting to stay true to the 5:3 ratio in all three dimensions. Once the corals fill in I am trying for 1/3 to 1/2 open sand bed and 1/3 of blue back and side panels open. I'll know better after I get the rock attached.

Lavoisier

05/12/2013, 11:23 AM

Got down to it this week. Like anything else, the more you do it the more efficient you become. The drilling equipment:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513009_zps4902e046.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513009_zps4902e046.jpg.html)

Being sure to drill off center:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513008_zps71fbd6e5.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513008_zps71fbd6e5.jpg.html)

Not too difficult after 6 or 7 rocks!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513010_zpsc6ff5513.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513010_zpsc6ff5513.jpg.html)

For 3/4" PVC

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513011_zpsd6f34fbc.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513011_zpsd6f34fbc.jpg.html)

My pile from which to chose:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513012_zpsd84ea560.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513012_zpsd84ea560.jpg.html)

Under construction:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513013_zpsa48aa2e0.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513013_zpsa48aa2e0.jpg.html)

I am hoping to get the two structures finished this week and the glass in next weekend.

salty joe

05/12/2013, 01:47 PM

Very nice, please keep the pics coming!

Lavoisier

05/12/2013, 04:52 PM

Very nice, please keep the pics coming!

Just remember you asked for it! (I got a little more done this afternoon)

Here is the front leg of the back left structure:=

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513014_zpse2ad9517.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513014_zpse2ad9517.jpg.html)

Front leg trimmed

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513015_zps4c606664.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513015_zps4c606664.jpg.html)

Back leg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513016_zps1f6691d0.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513016_zps1f6691d0.jpg.html)

Back left structure

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513019_zpsbb70a4ed.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513019_zpsbb70a4ed.jpg.html)

Now to add Quickwall in order to cover all pvc and stabilize the structre

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513020_zps4a5414b2.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513020_zps4a5414b2.jpg.html)

Everyone enjoy your week.

salty joe

05/12/2013, 05:18 PM

[QUOTE=Lavoisier;21499948]Just remember you asked for it! QUOTE]

Bring it! :cool:

I don't know if you are going to have any serious back and forth water motion-if so, I wonder if the rock stuctures will also move a little bit. IDK.

JClarkKent2006

05/12/2013, 05:33 PM

looking GREAT!!!

I'm just curious, what made you decide to make PVC structures and drill / place your rock like that?

Couldn't you use Acrylic Super Glue to GLUE the rocks together? Or they make that GREEN Aquascaping stuff that is like bubble gum and you push rocks / frags together and they stay together?

I'm asking for curiosity AND advice too, I need to do some aquascaping and will have strong flow as well, curious what I should do about my formations.

Great job, looking amazin!

Chicago

05/12/2013, 06:05 PM

Looks great.

Lavoisier

05/13/2013, 12:40 PM

Looks great.

Thank you, Chicago. I appreciate the kind words.

looking GREAT!!!

I'm just curious, what made you decide to make PVC structures and drill / place your rock like that?

Couldn't you use Acrylic Super Glue to GLUE the rocks together? Or they make that GREEN Aquascaping stuff that is like bubble gum and you push rocks / frags together and they stay together?

I'm asking for curiosity AND advice too, I need to do some aquascaping and will have strong flow as well, curious what I should do about my formations.

Great job, looking amazin!

Thank you. I decided to go with drilling and pvc/mortar because I am attempting to mitigate the risk in the system as much as possible and several reefers I respect have gone this route. Also the most influential resource I've used for the aquascaping (a series of three articles found at http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/100520-aesthetics-aquascaping.html) uses this pvc/mortar method. I actually bought several cans of the "pond foam" and then found the above articles and, so reversed course. This is not to say that either the acrylic glue or the pond foam does not/will not work well but in terms of the most stable system I thought this approach would serve me best. :fun4:

[QUOTE=Lavoisier;21499948]Just remember you asked for it! QUOTE]

Bring it! :cool:

I don't know if you are going to have any serious back and forth water motion-if so, I wonder if the rock stuctures will also move a little bit. IDK.

I had never considered the possibility of the structures moving under heavy flow. :hmm2: The structures are quite heavy and the pvc "feet" will be under a 3" sand bed but I could easily lengthening the feet to provide greater stability. I am planning on a test run of the system with fresh water initially so if the lengthened feet do not do it I could also fill the pvc with lead!!

CyclistMT

05/13/2013, 10:09 PM

Thank you, Chicago. I appreciate the kind words.

Thank you. I decided to go with drilling and pvc/mortar because I am attempting to mitigate the risk in the system as much as possible and several reefers I respect have gone this route. Also the most influential resource I've used for the aquascaping (a series of three articles found at http://www.reefsmagazine.com/forum/reefs-magazine/100520-aesthetics-aquascaping.html) uses this pvc/mortar method. I actually bought several cans of the "pond foam" and then found the above articles and, so reversed course. This is not to say that either the acrylic glue or the pond foam does not/will not work well but in terms of the most stable system I thought this approach would serve me best. :fun4:

I had never considered the possibility of the structures moving under heavy flow. :hmm2: The structures are quite heavy and the pvc "feet" will be under a 3" sand bed but I could easily lengthening the feet to provide greater stability. I am planning on a test run of the system with fresh water initially so if the lengthened feet do not do it I could also fill the pvc with lead!!

I can't wait to see how this shapes up Lav! I was going to recommend pond foam but I see you're going a different direction. Once all the mortar is in it will look great, like one continuous piece of the reef.

I doubt it will move either and I know you're joking about the lead but if you think it might move at all, you could always fill the pvc with sand for extra sinkability. But then again, once the mortar is on there it's going to be a lot heavier than it is now. Can't wait to see this in the tank with water!

Lavoisier

05/16/2013, 10:09 AM

CyclistMT

05/16/2013, 03:58 PM

Sand is a realistic choice if I find movement in the structure after the system is running. One disadvantage of the foam that I have seen commented upon is "floating" rocks due to the density of the foam. Mortar with its higher density will be more stable in terms of shifting.

Cyclist, did you change your moniker recently? I like it.

Then they weren't using enough rock. I foamed the heck out of my arch and I even forgot to drilll holes in the pvc skeleton but it still sank and stayed just fine. From the amount of rock you have there I don't think you'd have this problem if you decided to use foam. However, mortar will probably look more realistic upon application. The foam will have to be sculpted once cured to blend it with the rocks.

Yes I changed my avatar and thanks! Got tired of looking at the yellow submarine.

Lavoisier

05/16/2013, 04:59 PM

Yes, good point. I did not mean to denigrate foam as I have seen some beautiful structures with foam and it provides a great deal of flexibility.

Lavoisier

05/18/2013, 02:09 PM

My son was over so I decided to install the side glass viewing panel. I tilted the tank on it long edge in order to get some help from gravity.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513022_zps69ea6bc9.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513022_zps69ea6bc9.jpg.html)

We doubled checked the openings to be sure the liquid rubber had not made the opening to small for the glass! We rested the glass on the bottom while I applied a bead of the polyurethane calk.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513023_zpsf2daaff5.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513023_zpsf2daaff5.jpg.html)

The calk

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513025_zpsf5ad7eac.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513025_zpsf5ad7eac.jpg.html)

A little extra pressure with the 2x4 and we'll let the calk cure.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513026_zps6a320540.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513026_zps6a320540.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

05/18/2013, 02:16 PM

Here is the calk by the way.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513024_zps6f774e10.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513024_zps6f774e10.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

05/18/2013, 02:21 PM

Mortar (Quickwall) and equipment

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513028_zps033aa3df.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513028_zps033aa3df.jpg.html)

Applying mortar

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513029_zps85612472.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513029_zps85612472.jpg.html)

The other leg

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513030_zpse371fa11.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513030_zpse371fa11.jpg.html)

Back left structure

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513032_zps7aa824ee.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513032_zps7aa824ee.jpg.html)

Another view

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513031_zpsaa6cf2ae.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513031_zpsaa6cf2ae.jpg.html)

The Quickwall is nice because I can create areas to place frags quite easily. I have to get ready for my son's graduation part from KU so I'm hoping to finish the two structures tomorrow after church...we'll see...

salty joe

05/19/2013, 07:00 AM

Your mortar is looking GOOD! Thanks for the pics, I'll be doing something similar, this is helpful.

Will you need to soak the stucture to prevent a PH spike?

Chicago

05/19/2013, 08:12 AM

Wow

Lavoisier

05/19/2013, 01:40 PM

Your mortar is looking GOOD! Thanks for the pics, I'll be doing something similar, this is helpful.

Will you need to soak the stucture to prevent a PH spike?

I got the idea from Mr. Wilson on this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=993625&highlight=ceramic

From what I understood if one cures the mortar using a mist method rather than submersion the PH spike is avoided or at least minimized and the rock is aquarium ready much sooner. I was planning on running fresh water for at least a week so I will definitely check PH before I go to saltwater.

Here is the finished back left structure...just need to add the legs once its in the tank.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513035_zps7a695cdd.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513035_zps7a695cdd.jpg.html)

Another view:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513036_zps40b53aa4.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/Aquascaping%20600g/Aquascaping5513036_zps40b53aa4.jpg.html)

Holyreefer

05/19/2013, 02:02 PM

nice!

salty joe

05/19/2013, 03:35 PM

nice!

That's exactly what I said as I looked at the pics. haha

Lavoisier

05/19/2013, 05:08 PM

nice!

That's exactly what I said as I looked at the pics. haha

Thanks, you guys, I appreciate the encouragement.

redtop03

05/19/2013, 09:50 PM

very nice build,welcome to the DIY plywood tank club :D

love what you're doing with the rock work too

erictorres0311

05/19/2013, 10:57 PM

wow i never knew you could do a tank out of wood with proper equipment ? i will definetaly keep following this thread, looking really good by the way keep up the good work

Crazy_Beaver

05/20/2013, 01:19 AM

Nice structures!

humaguy

05/20/2013, 09:11 AM

Very cool build...can't wait to see it running...

Lavoisier

05/20/2013, 09:44 AM

very nice build,welcome to the DIY plywood tank club :D

love what you're doing with the rock work too

It's a great club to be a part of:dance:

wow i never knew you could do a tank out of wood with proper equipment ? i will definetaly keep following this thread, looking really good by the way keep up the good work

Wood tanks are a little counter intuitive but we have been making wooden boats for quite a while!

Nice structures!

Thanks, Crazy. All I can say is that we have great resources here on RC.

Very cool build...can't wait to see it running...

Thanks humaguy. At this point, I can't wait to see it running as well. :clown:

cheezischrist

05/20/2013, 04:04 PM

man i can't wait to see this full of water. i'm in the process of planning a similar build, but using pvc sheets instead of plywood. lol but i will probably be just using my drafting abilities just drawing and re drawing it for te next 2 years lol

Chicago

05/20/2013, 04:10 PM

pvc sheets.. lets see some pics

Lavoisier

05/20/2013, 04:18 PM

pvc sheets.. lets see some pics

Yes, that sounds interesting. Costs? Support for the sheets? I know some folks have used a pvc sheet for the bottom of a glass tank (4 sides glass). Also please include a link to your build when you get started.

cheezischrist

05/20/2013, 04:18 PM

i'm still in drawing stages lol. i use them all the time doing siding work, kitchen work, bathroom work, and theres another thread of a guy using them to build sumps and what not. but i think using them would be a plus to the build. they are a little more flexible, but i think they would work out well with the addition of either plywood backing, or more bracing and supports.
plus they are not wood, wich always seems to do me dirty over time

cheezischrist

05/20/2013, 04:25 PM

hypnoj

05/20/2013, 07:26 PM

following :)

Nathan.Titulaer

05/21/2013, 07:42 PM

That is some amazing rock work and will look amazing.

cheezischrist

05/21/2013, 09:29 PM

double agree with nathan. i look forward to updates on this build every day

acorral

05/22/2013, 10:15 AM

Great project !!!

Lavoisier

05/22/2013, 12:55 PM

if my current build stops sucking the life out of my wallet, i may actually be able to start sooner than i even dream of, but 3/4" 4' x 8' sheets, wich depending on where you get them are 4'1 x 8'1, are between 95 and 120 dollars a sheet from most supply houses. and can be attached to acrylic with a few differant weldons. the stuffs heavy, and a mess to work with(think of being trapped in a snowglobe when cutting), but absolutely water and mostly chemical resistant. lol it could end up being the biggest mess i ever made, but i think its worth giving a shot in the name of science

A little more expensive than plywood but when you add in waterproof coating not a whole lot more. I agree you should give it a shot!

following :)

Welcome

That is some amazing rock work and will look amazing.

Thank you, I'm happy with how its turning out at this point.

Lavoisier

05/22/2013, 01:01 PM

double agree with nathan. i look forward to updates on this build every day

Not sure I can manage daily updates :sad2: but I did get some diy rock done yesterday afternoon for my cryptic tank and hope to make another batch shortly. I won't post pics because we've already got lots of pics on RC as well as ytube and if you've seen one diy rock you've seen...

Great project !!!

Thank you.

hkarmy25

05/23/2013, 03:18 PM

Where did you purchase the acrylic coating from?

Lavoisier

05/23/2013, 05:00 PM

Sherman Williams

http://protective.sherwin-williams.com/detail.jsp?A=sku-26019%3Aproduct-6794

Lavoisier

05/23/2013, 05:18 PM

I installed the large viewing panel today: 5/8 inch Starfire

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513002_zps18ba9f48.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513002_zps18ba9f48.jpg.html)

92 x 26

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513001_zps1baa435f.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513001_zps1baa435f.jpg.html)

View from the side panel

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513003_zps14845a6b.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513003_zps14845a6b.jpg.html)

View from the front:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513004_zps4e8b0530.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Aquascaping5513004_zps4e8b0530.jpg.html)

RGCEsq

06/24/2013, 04:37 PM

any updates?

cleverbs

06/24/2013, 08:35 PM

Im sorry but I have to ask why spend so much money on a tank that doesnt last more then 5 years? I have yet to read of a success story of plywood tanks longer then 5 years

Lavoisier

06/25/2013, 08:31 AM

any updates?

Thanks, ESQ, for asking. I have been traveling a lot this month and have not been able to do enough on the tank to warrant an update. However, I did get the mandatory kids (in my case grandsons) in the tank pics!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked004_zps40793637.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked004_zps40793637.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked001_zps5d3658ee.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked001_zps5d3658ee.jpg.html)

I'm off next week so am planning on getting a subpanel installed, plumbing in, and aquascaping completed.

Lavoisier

06/25/2013, 08:34 AM

Im sorry but I have to ask why spend so much money on a tank that doesnt last more then 5 years? I have yet to read of a success story of plywood tanks longer then 5 years

Hi Cleverbs,

If this tank only lasts five years then it was foolish to build. I have had personal success with a 55 plywood/glass for over 10 years and I have read of others much longer. We'll see...

Regards

redtop03

06/25/2013, 02:46 PM

Im sorry but I have to ask why spend so much money on a tank that doesnt last more then 5 years? I have yet to read of a success story of plywood tanks longer then 5 years

mine just turned 4 years old and there's no sign of water damage anywhere on it, don't know why it wont last another 4 or 5 years at least, it looks as good now as the first day I put water in it....

if they are built properly and sealed completely,I see no reason they wont last a lifetime

redtop03

06/25/2013, 02:49 PM

Thanks, ESQ, for asking. I have been traveling a lot this month and have not been able to do enough on the tank to warrant an update. However, I did get the mandatory kids (in my case grandsons) in the tank pics!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked004_zps40793637.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked004_zps40793637.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked001_zps5d3658ee.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/JamesandLuketanked001_zps5d3658ee.jpg.html)

I'm off next week so am planning on getting a subpanel installed, plumbing in, and aquascaping completed.

awesome,you're moving along nicely....great pics too,the little mermen look like they are having a ball in there

McPuff

07/22/2013, 12:27 PM

How is the build coming along? Any water in it yet? Everything looks great so far!

Lavoisier

08/11/2013, 06:19 AM

I have been traveling too much this summer so not much progress. I did fill with water and found a small leak. I have a choice of purchasing another 5gal of liquid rubber (expensive) to add a few more coats around the glass panels and edges or go with 2 part epoxy (inexpensive) and fiberglass the edges of the glass panels. I'll probably go with the epoxy.

Lavoisier

10/26/2013, 02:19 PM

It's been way to long for updates but just have not had time to work on the tank. I should be able to get going again. I fixed the leak as follows:

2 Part Epoxy paint

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/9113001_zps36b14439.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/9113001_zps36b14439.jpg.html)

Self adhesive cloth

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/9113002_zps5ddc2b73.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/9113002_zps5ddc2b73.jpg.html)

Cloth along front glass

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/9113004_zpsdda9b1e8.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/9113004_zpsdda9b1e8.jpg.html)

First coat

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/9113006_zpsfc87ea37.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/9113006_zpsfc87ea37.jpg.html)

5th coat

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/001_zpsfb62a34c-1.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/001_zpsfb62a34c-1.jpg.html)

Starting the plumbing

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/002_zps6eb726c9-1.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/002_zps6eb726c9-1.jpg.html)

blackchicken

10/26/2013, 05:45 PM

Waaaaaauu
Lavoisier I love this build. This will be great.

Lavoisier

10/27/2013, 05:41 AM

Thank you, BlackChicken. It has taken longer than I intended!

salty joe

10/27/2013, 01:18 PM

Don't they all? Keep plugging away-looking good!

Lavoisier

11/02/2013, 11:05 AM

My BeanAnimal dry fit. Let me know if you see a gross oversight on my part.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal001_zpsffb3c2f5.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal001_zpsffb3c2f5.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal002_zpsda919171.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal002_zpsda919171.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal003_zpsb9fb4715.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal003_zpsb9fb4715.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal004_zpsb52ef838.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Plumbing/BeanAnimal004_zpsb52ef838.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

11/10/2013, 02:10 PM

Some progress this weekend and the Barcelona game doesn't show for another two hours.

Sea Swirls and OMs need the plumbing:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/111013003_zps34c39530.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/111013003_zps34c39530.jpg.html)

Return

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/111013001_zpsf2172ae8.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/111013001_zpsf2172ae8.jpg.html)

Closed Loop feed

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/111013002_zps101bb134.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/111013002_zps101bb134.jpg.html)

Stand for CL pump with one coat so far

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/111013004_zpsd4d9f04d.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/111013004_zpsd4d9f04d.jpg.html)

Another view

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/111013005_zpsff9d220b.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/111013005_zpsff9d220b.jpg.html)

Heavy Hittah

11/10/2013, 02:47 PM

mine just turned 4 years old and there's no sign of water damage anywhere on it, don't know why it wont last another 4 or 5 years at least, it looks as good now as the first day I put water in it....

if they are built properly and sealed completely,I see no reason they wont last a lifetime

Is your build thread online for this

Lavoisier

11/10/2013, 03:59 PM

Just this thread at this point. After the tank is up and running I'll go back and consolidate the posts into a proper build thread.

BAETech2004

11/10/2013, 08:12 PM

This is the coolest effing thing I have ever seen. Only one complaint....I've finished reading the thread as it stands, and I can't see a completed project. Thought I would luck out and it was a thread that had already gone all the way through,lol.

Lavoisier

11/10/2013, 08:39 PM

modder man

11/10/2013, 11:38 PM

I just read through your thread, I am local to KC as well.

Lavoisier

11/16/2013, 06:37 PM

The leak returned and I suspected I had a serious problem. After considering for several days I bit the bullet and knew I had to reconstruct my tank. Using my trusty reciprocal saw

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart004_zps13271d0a.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart004_zps13271d0a.jpg.html)

I cut out the glass and found the plywood had in fact failed. I would not want to blame anything but myself but I was contentious in applying the liquid rubber and constructing the tank. I fear that the liquid rubber is not a viable method of creating a large saltwater tank. It is possible that the polyurethane calk (it did not bond with the glass but was more like silicone applied to acrylic) is at fault but I have discovered a leak this week in my cryptic tank as well so the liquid rubber is certainly suspect. This is after five coats of the liquid rubber.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart001_zpsf62f10ec.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart001_zpsf62f10ec.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart002_zpsd984251a.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart002_zpsd984251a.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart003_zps475f1c99.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/500g%20Build/Blue%20Max%20Finish/Restart003_zps475f1c99.jpg.html)

I am out about $400 for plywood, screws, liquid rubber, and, of course my labor, but I am determined to create this wonderful tank and will rebuild with epoxy resin and fiberglass. I have already ordered from Jamestown (great customer service--Thanks Rick) and will post pics next weekend as I begin again.

rogergolf66

11/16/2013, 07:49 PM

Sorry to hear that. Gl with the changes hope u can get it working leak free

Lavoisier

11/16/2013, 08:29 PM

Sorry to hear that. Gl with the changes hope u can get it working leak free

Thanks, Roger. Going back to tried and true!

salty joe

11/16/2013, 08:31 PM

That's a tough-break sorry to hear it. Good to know you can roll with that punch and keep going.

Have you been to fingerlakes? They have a dedicated forum for plywood/epoxy tanks.

Lavoisier

11/16/2013, 08:46 PM

That's a tough-break sorry to hear it. Good to know you can roll with that punch and keep going.

Have you been to fingerlakes? They have a dedicated forum for plywood/epoxy tanks.

Thanks, Salty Joe, I appreciate the sympathy. I kept trying to convince myself I did not have a serious problem!!

Yes, the forum there has persuaded me to go to 2 part epoxy resin and fiberglass. Many there are just using epoxy (pour method) but after my failed attempt at innovation I am leery of trying anything that does not have 10+ years of success.

madweazl

11/16/2013, 10:32 PM

What a bummer. These projects always amaze and intrigue but I've never had the nerve to sack up and do it. Cant wait to see it finished up!

muttley000

11/18/2013, 09:07 PM

Glad to see you perservering! Could you tell me specifically what epoxy you used?
Thanks!

Lavoisier

11/19/2013, 08:47 AM

Glad to see you perservering! Could you tell me specifically what epoxy you used?
Thanks!

I didn't use epoxy, I used Blue Max liquid rubber and polyurethane calk to seal the glass.

muttley000

11/21/2013, 08:50 PM

Sorry, I think I was a little unclear, what epoxy have you been convinced to use for the redo by the fingerlakes guys?

Lavoisier

11/22/2013, 10:57 AM

Sorry, I think I was a little unclear, what epoxy have you been convinced to use for the redo by the fingerlakes guys?

I will be using TOTALBOAT- 5:1 from Jamestown (great customer service by the way) with a dark blue coloring agent, and a 6oz fiberglass cloth.

79chopperdr

11/22/2013, 11:09 AM

I am out about $400 for plywood, screws, liquid rubber, and, of course my labor, but I am determined to create this wonderful tank and will rebuild with epoxy resin and fiberglass.

Bummer, good on you for pushing through. I love to DIY also and the quote above I can really sympathize with because materials have become so darn expensive. :headwalls:

Good luck

Lavoisier

11/22/2013, 03:22 PM

Thanks for the encouragement! Pics coming soon...

ReefSuds

11/23/2013, 04:54 AM

Ouch but that was a good lesson, not just for you but others. Keep up the great work and looking forward to seeing the new tank!

jccaclimber

11/23/2013, 11:29 AM

I'm glad to know you're diving back in to this to rebuild. It sucks that it failed the first time, but without risking things like that you can't experiment to look for a better way.

Lavoisier

11/23/2013, 07:38 PM

Ouch but that was a good lesson, not just for you but others. Keep up the great work and looking forward to seeing the new tank!

I'm glad to know you're diving back in to this to rebuild. It sucks that it failed the first time, but without risking things like that you can't experiment to look for a better way.

Thanks guys.

Diamond Dave

11/24/2013, 07:21 AM

Heavy Hittah

11/24/2013, 07:27 AM

I know of plenty solid plywood tanks on monster fish keepers. People also make lobster tanks out of plywood. The key is just proper engineering. So don't tell the OP it can't be done.

Coral Head

11/24/2013, 07:49 AM

Wow!! This thread reads like a best seller! I just came across this thread yesterday afternoon. I read every post from the beginning yesterday evening and this morning.

Sorry to read of the tank failure, but you will prevail, Lavoisier.

Subscribed.

trickedout900

11/24/2013, 02:49 PM

Something you may want to consider is using a plywood with more plys in it. The more plys the more stable it will be and the fewer voids/gaps you will find in the under layers. A large amount of plywood is imported these days and the glue they use is very questionable in my opinion. If your local lumber yard does not carry a better grade of plywood try to find a local cabinet builder. I once had some Walnut plywood that was 8 plys, it would have been perfect for building a tank.

Just my two cents. Good luck with your rebuild.

Lavoisier

11/24/2013, 05:11 PM

Wood and water don't mix. I think you will continues to have problems. Might want to bite the bullet and order an all glass tank. Plywood tank might work for awhile but it will always fail. Too much to risk IMO.

Thanks for your thoughts DD. I have had a successful plywood/glass tank in the past and there are a number around at 10+ years and counting. I could not afford a glass 500g tank but this one is within my reach even with the first failure. The problem was not wood and water (we both know wood has been used successfully in an aqua environment for centuries!) but my attempt to use polyurethane as a sealant with the liquid rubber. Again, however, I appreciate your opinion.

I know of plenty solid plywood tanks on monster fish keepers. People also make lobster tanks out of plywood. The key is just proper engineering. So don't tell the OP it can't be done.

Thanks HH. I do think it was my improper engineering that caused the failure!

Wow!! This thread reads like a best seller! I just came across this thread yesterday afternoon. I read every post from the beginning yesterday evening and this morning.

Sorry to read of the tank failure, but you will prevail, Lavoisier.

Subscribed.

Quite a compliment Coral Head. Thank you,

Something you may want to consider is using a plywood with more plys in it. The more plys the more stable it will be and the fewer voids/gaps you will find in the under layers. A large amount of plywood is imported these days and the glue they use is very questionable in my opinion. If your local lumber yard does not carry a better grade of plywood try to find a local cabinet builder. I once had some Walnut plywood that was 8 plys, it would have been perfect for building a tank.

Just my two cents. Good luck with your rebuild.

I will look into your suggestion, trickedout. I assume that your 8 ply was 1" plywood. Unlike the liquid rubber, the fiberglass/epoxy will actually be the tank when all is said and done.'

karimwassef

01/02/2014, 11:26 AM

Lavoisier - sorry for your bad experience. DIY is about trying different methods and you've added to our group knowledge by sharing your experience. it is expensive but valuable.

my plywood/pour epoxy sump with plexiglass faces is still up (6x2x2)... knock on plywood.

salty joe

01/02/2014, 12:35 PM

When you epoxy the bottom, you might want to hit the 'endgrain' of the top perimeter.
I heard of a failed woody from enough water splashing and soaking in there. IIRC, it took a year or two to delaminate the plywood.

IMO, one of the biggest challenges to a big woody is making the box stiff enough.
I used the bottom of a coast to coast overflow to stiffen the back of my 8' woody and steel angle to stiffen the front. The middle of the 3/4" glass viewing panel bows more than any other part of the tank. The perimeter of the glass is held almost flat (1/16-3/32" bow over 8')

jccaclimber

01/02/2014, 05:32 PM

It's been a couple years, but I used to spend a lot of time working with carbon fiber, kevlar, and fiberglass. Common two part resins tend to be either epoxy based or ester based. The ester based resins cost less, are commonly used on fiberglass, and stink to the heavens when they cure. The epoxy resins have less fumes, cost more, and are pretty much required for carbon fiber and kevlar work, or at least were for my applications. Something to note is that while cured epoxy resin sticks reasonably well to new epoxy resin with some scuffing, the same is NOT true for ester resins. For something meant to stay continuous with ester resin I would make sure the entire area is laid up wet at the same time. Using ester resin to bond on to an already cured area often holds for a time, then lets go one day as if it were never attached.

It sounds like your final tank will almost be like a bicycle tire. The tube provides the airtight layer and the tire provides the structural integrity to keep the tube from ballooning out. It this case the composite is keeping the water in, and the wood backing is giving it the strength to keep going.

criticalencore

02/23/2014, 05:57 PM

How is this coming along? I came across this also searching for solar tubes to light my 550g-fish plywood reef that has been going about 1.5 years now. Not sure how close you are but I have some ideas to toss around from building my own 8'x4'x28.5". Lots of trial and error but I went with RAKA resin and top coated with Sweetwater epoxy. Tagging along.

Lavoisier

06/19/2014, 05:23 PM

Wow...long time since my last post. If you've followed along you'll know about my set back. I'm ready to resume the thread as I've rebuilt the tank and it is solid! As I was rebuilding I took advantage of the time to enlarge the space around the back and side of the tank:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014002_zpsd546e52b.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014002_zpsd546e52b.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014001_zpse0c92af6.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014001_zpse0c92af6.jpg.html)

I wish I had never heard of liquid rubber!! Back to a proven technology of fiber glassing with 2-part epoxy. This material was easy to work with.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014004_zps9f35be44.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014004_zps9f35be44.jpg.html)

The bottom of the tank

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014003_zpsa02561c9.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014003_zpsa02561c9.jpg.html)

Corner joints

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014005_zps443a75fc.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014005_zps443a75fc.jpg.html)

From 2x2s

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014006_zps704a05fc.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014006_zps704a05fc.jpg.html)

Cutting the corners

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014008_zpsc5a6d7b5.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014008_zpsc5a6d7b5.jpg.html)

Not too difficult

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014009_zps941980dc.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014009_zps941980dc.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

06/19/2014, 05:23 PM

Front panel--second time!!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014012_zps985a77f9.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014012_zps985a77f9.jpg.html)

Another view

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014011_zpsc8db6cc9.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014011_zpsc8db6cc9.jpg.html)

Side panel

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/June2014013_zps82143cc3.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/June2014013_zps82143cc3.jpg.html)

More to come...thanks for you patience.

criticalencore

06/19/2014, 05:26 PM

Do you already have the Solar tubes?

Lavoisier

06/19/2014, 06:37 PM

Start at post 27...I could not get enough light to use the tubes in any significant way.

criticalencore

06/19/2014, 06:41 PM

Thanks. I was considering 3 solar tube for my 550g plywood tank but when the representing came by I wasn't sold on the idea. Good job on reinforcing the corners. I used Raka resin on my plywood tank and top coated with Sweetwater epoxy. Good luck, the end work is worth the effort

The actual Sola tube company says it's like 80% more efficient than the home Depot ones I think...

karimwassef

06/19/2014, 07:20 PM

How is it going, Lavoisier?

woodnaquanut

06/20/2014, 08:22 AM

Wow, I was impressed before but now I see you are cutting the 45 degree cuts with a skill saw! That's impressive!!

Keep up the great work.

AcMonster

06/20/2014, 07:58 PM

Lavoisier

07/06/2014, 02:40 PM

A little more progress this week...installing a 30 amp sub panel:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th001_zps0f647030.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th001_zps0f647030.jpg.html)

Wired on one end

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th005_zps225cd785.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th005_zps225cd785.jpg.html)

Platform for my Sea Swirls

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th007_zpsf9adbe05.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th007_zpsf9adbe05.jpg.html)

Mounted

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th009_zps5f7faac3.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th009_zps5f7faac3.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

07/06/2014, 02:44 PM

Using a 6 ft epoxied poplar board to mount my lights

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th010_zps60a553d0.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th010_zps60a553d0.jpg.html)

I thought I was going to use this hoist for my lights but with my low basement ceiling I did not have room! I will mount the lights directly to the floor joists and have 18-20 inches between water and 400w metal halides.

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th011_zps6477287d.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th011_zps6477287d.jpg.html)

Reflector

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th012_zpsbe1e1498.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th012_zpsbe1e1498.jpg.html)

All three attached to board

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/July6th013_zpsa09c23cb.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/July6th013_zpsa09c23cb.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

07/06/2014, 02:46 PM

How is it going, Lavoisier?

I am well and back to it...I've enjoyed reading your recent posts on your tank. Great work.

muttley000

07/13/2014, 07:42 AM

Nice update! Glad your back at it.

Lavoisier

07/13/2014, 08:15 AM

Wow, I was impressed before but now I see you are cutting the 45 degree cuts with a skill saw! That's impressive!!

Keep up the great work.

That was a bit tricky! I had to scrap my first one but after that they actually came out clean.

Lavoisier

07/13/2014, 08:16 AM

Great build thread. Looks like you're back in the game. I'll be following along. As others have mentioned, even though you had struggles, we will all benefit from it. Thank you for advancing the diy community.

Thanks, Ac. I love diy when the project fits into my skill range (or a little beyond!...and I have the tools for it.

Lavoisier

07/13/2014, 08:17 AM

Nice update! Glad your back at it.

Thanks for the encouragement, Muttley.

karimwassef

07/13/2014, 09:56 AM

Update ? Update ?

Lavoisier

07/13/2014, 11:34 AM

Update ? Update ?

Okay, okay, but I would like some advice from everyone on placing my skimmer when you are done looking.

Rock structures are back in the tank with pvc joints primed and glued and rocks mortared. It took me half a day to get that done and I still have to vacuum out the tank (good task for a Sunday). I apologize for the end view photo in advance.

Left structure from front

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/71314002_zps3076d1ff.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/71314002_zps3076d1ff.jpg.html)

Valley

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/71314003_zpse94a0aaf.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/71314003_zpse94a0aaf.jpg.html)

Right structure from front

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/71314004_zps40010123.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/71314004_zps40010123.jpg.html)

Lousy end view

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/71314001_zps25f91e43.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/71314001_zps25f91e43.jpg.html)

I'm sure you guys all know this but I recommend making oversized holes when running wire through joists. This is 10/3 wire with a 5/8" diameter. I thought I was being smart by using a 3/4" drill...it took me the second half of Saturday to run this 25' from sub panel to main breaker unit. If I had used a 1" drill I would have been done in 30 minutes!

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/71314007_zps1d9f572d.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/71314007_zps1d9f572d.jpg.html)

Lavoisier

07/13/2014, 11:53 AM

Now for some advice. Below is my Life Reef VS3-48 with extensions. I am planning on plumbing into the initial compartment in the sump (receives the overflow water from the BeanAnimal drain). I plan on running a wet skim/water change system with this skimmer. The problem is that this is the end of the tank with a view panel but 8' closer to the drain and right next to the sump compartment I will plumb to. I would rather keep this end of tank more open and put the skimmer at the other end of the tank in the corner. However, that means running the plumbing back the length of the tank into the corner and then running the drain hose 8 feet all the way back to the drain. It also means I would have to put a 90 degree elbow into the plumbing--connecting to a pan100 pump--and I am concerned with calvication. Can I do that or would it be better to plumb it next to the sump compartment with a straight pipe, close to the drain? Thoughts?

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/71314006_zpsbd9555fc.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/71314006_zpsbd9555fc.jpg.html)

karimwassef

07/13/2014, 01:32 PM

I'd go with the straight option with the least bends and distance.

jccaclimber

07/13/2014, 01:40 PM

I'm a fan of keeping bends out of systems as well, although long distances can facilitate slow bends. Since you seem reasonably handy, it isn't hard to make your own large radius bends out of rigid PVC pipe. A little evenly distributed heat goes a long way, just don't get in a hurry and burn or kink something. Cavitation will depend on NPSH available and required by the pump. Putting the pump closer to the source it is coming from rather than close to the target will reduce this issue.

karimwassef

07/13/2014, 03:18 PM

For large bends, I use Flex PVC (spa stores carry it).

It's expensive ($40 for 8 feet), but it is significantly better for multi-bend travel.

Lavoisier

07/13/2014, 04:12 PM

Yes, I think I knew that I really did need to a straight connection to the sump and will keep the skimmer at right side of the aquarium. Thank you for the input.

Lavoisier

07/20/2014, 01:43 PM

I just started a new post but thought I would ask here as well:

I have two questions for all you wonderful DIYers. First question (and I have read the PanWorld manual, checked their website, and searched this forum), can I run a PanWorld 100 on its "side," with appropriate foam cushing. If I can I will have a straight connection to my LifeReef with no curves in my vinyl tubing (or hard plumb).

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/72014008_zps9fd75d01.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/72014008_zps9fd75d01.jpg.html)

Verses an 180 degree bend or 2 90s if I hard plumb:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/72014009_zps202c0d25.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/72014009_zps202c0d25.jpg.html)

Second question is if I should hard plumb or use vinyl tubing?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

Kind Regards.

Lavoisier

07/20/2014, 01:57 PM

MH mounted:

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/72014004_zpsf3e2028d.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/72014004_zpsf3e2028d.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/72014005_zps20d7e4de.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/72014005_zps20d7e4de.jpg.html)

Closed Loop

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/72014001_zps1eb5ba73.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/72014001_zps1eb5ba73.jpg.html)

http://i1321.photobucket.com/albums/u542/jimselby/700g%20Build/72014003_zps14b45edd.jpg (http://s1321.photobucket.com/user/jimselby/media/700g%20Build/72014003_zps14b45edd.jpg.html)