Cant solve cloudy water

[meegwell]

I have a new setup that i filled with rodi that was crystal clear. Nothing in the tanks (90 dt. 30 sump) but rodi and pumps. It was perfectly clear until i mixed in the salt (reef crystals). Its been a week now and its still cloudy. A hazy cloudines. No green or brown. Hazy.

There are no lights. No skimmer. No heater. No sand. No rocks. No fish.

Just water and pumps. The mag 7 return was and is running full time. My pump that will be used for my 20 gallon mixing container is a maxi jet that does a stated 750 i forget the model. I put that in the tank to help mix and have moved it around a bunch.

After a couple days of adjustments with fresh rodi the s.g. is 1.026.

Still cloudy and hazy. The only thing i can think of is there is not enough mixing power going on. My permanent dt circulation is not here yet. Could this be the problem? It seemed to improve a bit over time but now after a week its still not clear and im stumped.

Meegwell

[Chaotic Reefer4u]

Hmmm, im stumped too! the only thing i can think of is not enough circulation to break down the salt? although this would not leave a cloudy haze?

[Fizz71]

I'd get the heat running...but I'm stumped too. Can you get a filter sock in there somewhere? Even if it doesn't pull it out, it will force it to sit still and mix. Also...1.026 is a bit high for a reef IMO, but still shouldn't cause cloudy water.

Did you try mixing a little in a bucket? ..maybe the mix is bad or you added it too fast and caused some precipitate.

[Pittsburgh]

must be some particles in the water not clearing up. Get the skimmer going, it should clear it up in no time.

[meegwell]

No ill try the bucket. What would be too fast and what is precipitate? Thanks all im gonna chek with IO and get some heat going tomorrow.

[Fizz71]

Precipitate is anything that is supposed to remain dissolved but if made in too high quantity in solution becomes a solid again. Both of these pages talk about it when mixing salt too fast:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-11/nftt/index.php

http://www.reef-eden.net/basic_chemistry.htm

[hollister]

First of all never add salt to tank. Pre mix in seperate container and use a PH to mix it up. I like to pre mix the night before and let circulate all night untill i add. Also add new water slowly not to shock the tank.

If you have LR then you may have a large dieoff that caused the cloudyness.

[merritt32]

run carbon should clear it up

[meegwell]

First of all never add salt to tank. Pre mix in seperate container and use a PH to mix it up. I like to pre mix the night before and let circulate all night untill i add. Also add new water slowly not to shock the tank.

If you have LR then you may have a large dieoff that caused the cloudyness.

This was a first fill of a 120g system - I debated whether to mix in tank in another thread and the mix in tank won. There is nothing in the tank, I list content in the OP. Thanks.

[patsfan1130]

You were perfectly fine mixing in the tank - That's not the issue. I'd either try a drain sock or put a HOB filter with a sponge on it for a couple days. should clear right up

[Fizz71]

Mixing in the tank is fine for new systems, I'm guessing hillistor didn't catch that part since he said "not to shock the tank" and it's kind of hard to shock an empty box.

I'm still thinking you added the salt too fast...did you add the salt in quickly or sprinkled a little at a time? If your answer is quickly, then it's probably precipitate you've got. Even running a filter sock and/or carbon I would be afraid my water would be missing whatever it was that precipitated out. I asked about mixing in a bucket before just to see if your batch of salt was bad or if you could successfully mix a good bucket's worth.

You may need to drain and start over.

[meegwell]

Mixing in the tank is fine for new systems, I'm guessing hillistor didn't catch that part since he said "not to shock the tank" and it's kind of hard to shock an empty box.

I'm still thinking you added the salt too fast...did you add the salt in quickly or sprinkled a little at a time? If your answer is quickly, then it's probably precipitate you've got. Even running a filter sock and/or carbon I would be afraid my water would be missing whatever it was that precipitated out. I asked about mixing in a bucket before just to see if your batch of salt was bad or if you could successfully mix a good bucket's worth.

You may need to drain and start over.

My answer is I added it fast. Real fast. The first batch I did by the measuring cup - one cup full after another. Then I realized I used about one bag (fromt he box) when I was half way. So, in a moment of enlightenment (not) I dumped another bag in...~20 cups worth.

So now on to the solution. Obviously, I can empty the 110 gallons and start making rodi again. If I sock it, or carbon it, I'm still a couple months away from having any corals or fish - If I do weekly water changes during that time should I be OK? I would obviously like to avoid a full refill.

My next step was sand/rock so I wanted to start with the clear water becasue I know I'll battle the sand also.

a learning moment....

[meegwell]

Oh, and on the bucket test ill try that tonight.

[Fizz71]

My guess is the bucket will be clear in a matter of minutes...your problem is the rapid adding of salt. Adding salt causes an exothermic reaction (if my science is still right) meaning it generates heat...adding too much too fast can make a mess of it's ability to properly dissolve, or cause some elements to super saturate then when it cools off (which happens a 1/2 second later) precipitate back out... Atleast that's my take on the "why" adding salt too fast is bad, but I'd love to hear it from an actual "expert" on the topic.

Because I personally have never done it (and kept the water) I won't say whether it will ever be good. You could try a post in the chemistry forum and tell them you think you added salt too fast to 100g of RO and it precipitated and need to know if you should dump it, or if it can be saved. I'd trust the chemistry folks or somebody else who's done it before I'd trust me. :) ...I only have 20+ years experience (read as: "made a lot of mistakes" not as "I know everything") I don't have a degree in chemistry.

IMO you should dump and run...it should only take a few days to make new RO and salt is cheap compared to everything else you'll be putting in there. :)

Good luck.

[jimmy frag]

First of all never add salt to tank. Pre mix in seperate container and use a PH to mix it up. I like to pre mix the night before and let circulate all night untill i add. Also add new water slowly not to shock the tank.

If you have LR then you may have a large dieoff that caused the cloudyness.

its a empty tank, same as a empty pail:debi:

[meegwell]

Solid advice Fizz thank you. I didn't get to the bucket test last night (I have a bunch of kids...nuff said). I'll check with the chem folks on salvage.

[SkyJunkie]

I'm having the same problem. I've had cloudy water for weeks. I'm filtering 950gph and circulating another 2100 per hour. I have a nice big skimmer, change my filter bags regularly, I'm running carbon, and haven't added anything new. I have slightly elevated phosphate, but barely detectable. I don't know what to do. My lfs gave me some water clarifier to put in and it's not doing any good either.

[meegwell]

the conclusion over on the chem forum is leaning toward precipitate. The opinions are leaving the water (since there are currently no inhabitants) and doing my changes through the cycle/setup process will be fine.

[Fizz71]

I read the thread--Calcium (and Mg) would have been my guess as well. I didn't consider the fact that you'd be doing water changes during your cycle. I haven't had to cycle a new tank in years because I've always started with fully cured rock. But if you expect to be changing a lot of water out between now and when you start adding corals then I totally agree that the precipitate won't affect the cycle.

Worse case scenario you get to the end of your cycle with cloudy water and THEN change out the water. Water changes don't affect the bacteria population on the rock as long as it stays wet.

Good luck. You can let us know how it turns out here. :)

[Fizz71]

I read the thread--Calcium (and Mg) would have been my guess as well. I didn't consider the fact that you'd be doing water changes during your cycle. I haven't had to cycle a new tank in years because I've always started with fully cured rock. But if you expect to be changing a lot of water out between now and when you start adding corals then I totally agree that the precipitate won't affect the cycle.

Worse case scenario you get to the end of your cycle with cloudy water and THEN change out the water. Water changes don't affect the bacteria population on the rock as long as it stays wet.

Good luck. You can let us know how it turns out here. :)

[meegwell]

Fizz thanks so much you've been real helpful here. Let me ask a real noob question. I would like to get the water clear before i add my sand and rock so I have a clear base to start from knowing I'll battle some cloudiness from those additions. The suggestions are to run carbon and or a filter sock. I've never done either. My setup is still bare. I bought some carbon filter mesh bags and im thinking ill either stuff them in the bubble trap or in the pre filter plastic trap on the return pump (attached to the inlet). Regardless of whether filtering through carbon will actually clear things up, will doing it via this method be worthwhile if perhaps carbon is the right approach? Also.....what is a filter sock and where do i get one?

[Fizz71]

Considering it's a precipitate (still can't type word that fast) and not really a chemical issue I would think a filter sock would do you more justice than carbon. A mesh bag of carbon in your bubble trap might even get clogged up if you don't pre-filter the larger particles out.

For filter socks..you can get them at any salt water supply store but I got 5 of mine here:
BRS Filter Socks (http://aquarium.bulkreefsupply.com/search?asug=&view=grid&cnt=12&w=filter+sock)
(The other I bought in person at ThatFishPlace in Lancaster PA)

Felt will filter more than mesh, but that means felt will need to be changed out more often too. I currently have 6 felt filter socks (4" x 14" 200 Micron w/ Plastic Ring) and they'll last me maybe 2 to 3 months on my bioload and feeding. What I do is run one at a time, replacing them when they get clogged, then when the last clean one goes on, I wash the other 5 in the washing machine with bleach. They'll air dry in 24hrs so they're ready long before sock #6 is spent. Others hand wash or hose wash...I'm lazy. :)

I have my socks slipped over the drain from DT to sump..they have a plastic ring with a flap that grabs on to my 3" drain pipe elbow. Depending on your setup you'll need to find a way to get them in play. In a pinch..since you're cylcing and we don't care about looks..you could just rubber band one to your return right in the tank.

I run mine all the time...some folks don't bother so for long term use it's a preference thing. But I think right now getting a couple 200 micron felt filter socks is probably your best chance at clearing out the particulates. If you don't see a noticeable difference in 24 hours then you can try carbon, but I think the socks will take care of it.

Good luck.

[meegwell]

Just an update here i mixed a small bucket batch and it was perfect. I compared two glasses full next to each other and it was very easy to see the difference. So, the salt wasnt bad or anything, it definately had to do with how I mixed it. Running a filter sock now to clear it up then i'll rebalance the salt and begin to get back on with the setup project. Adding sand and rock next, so Ill have cloudy water again but at leasst I'll understand why!

[rerr001]

I used filter sock w/ carbon, water crystal clear

[meegwell]

I used filter sock w/ carbon, water crystal clear


How long did it take to clear up on what size system and what flow?

[TheKman]

I did the same then when i started my tank, It was cloudy for a couple of days.. I took my spare powerheads and added them in making a total of 4 power heads, (nothing was in the tank) and Added a carbon back next to my return pump and a filter sock.. Took about 36 hours and it was crystal clear. Also if you have a cleaning magnet, Mine left a film on it, once I did a good cleaning it looked even better. Give that a shot