Kalkwasser cloudy

[bolling]

I am going to try Mrs Wages Pickling lime in my ato on my 38 gallon reef. My PH seems to only be 7.8 anytime of the day and I am going to add kalk to try and get it up. My KH is 8 or 9 so I know I will have to keep an eye on it not getting to high. I have mostly lps and softies, I do have a maximus clam and a couple of small sps. I mixed 4 teaspoons with 5 gallons of water to start and I have put a powerhead in the bucket to mix it. Will it stay cloudy as long as the powerhead is on. How long should I leave the powerhead on and how long should I wait to use it in my ato.
Thanks

[blanden.adam]

Really be careful about how much you mix it, because the more you mix it, the more CO2 gets into the water, which then precipitates out as calcium carbonate.

For my kalkwasser, I just give it a good 30 second mix with a length o PVC pipe in my ATO bucket, put the top back on the bucket to minimize air exchange, and then just let it sit for a couple of hours to overnight.

You will always have precipitate, usually in the form of calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate or other impurities, which will stay suspended as long as you have the powerhead on (seriously though, a quick mix with a pvc pipe is all you need if you are using a reasonably small container). After you stop mixing, the precipitate will settle to the bottom and you will no longer have a slurry, but the water will never be "clear," kalkwasser solutions are a bit cloudy. Completely normal.

That said, really be careful about how much kalkwasser you add if you don't need the extra calcium/alkalinity. Have you tried opening a window or otherwise ventilating your system? 9/10 times pH problems, in the absence of another obvious cause, are due to high CO2 in the air around the tank. Not saying don't use kalkwasser, as your calcium and alkalinity likely deplete between water changes, just be sure to test frequently (at first every day, then every couple days, then once a week etc.) as you are dosing until you get the right dose dialed in.

Good luck!

[bolling]

Thanks, I took the powerhead out. Should I still use it if I let it settle out. My corals look great but I have lost 1 jawfish and two orchid dottybacks in the last 6 weeks. They died at different times and looked great right up till the day they died. I do have a hard time with nitrates, when it gets to 20 I do a 5 gallon water change on a 38 gallon tank which is every week or week and a half. The rest of my parameters are good except for the 7.8 ph. The strange thing is it is the same in the morning before lights and later in the day after lights. I do run a 4 led refugium light 24/7. I did notice one dottyback breathing a little heavy before dying and the other kept going to the top of the aquarium the day before it died like the is not enough oxygon down low. My tank is only a few month old but I tranfered from an extablished aquarium. I have had my clown fish since day one and he is still alright so far. I also have a firefish and a watchmen goby which was added after the jawfish died. They do not have any marks or spots on them at all.

[funkejj]

a PH of 7.8 isn't going to kill three fish. I would imagine your oxygen is low in your tank due to the description of what the fish did prior to death. So you have a power heat pointed to the surface for agitation to help promote gas exchange? Do you have a skimmer? You can route your air line for the skimmer to fresh outside air. In the winter when people have their houses close up they end up getting higher co2 and less o2. Open some windows when the weather permits.

[disc1]

Should I still use it if I let it settle out.

You have to let it settle out. You should stir it good and then turn the PH off and let it settle. What you want is the clear saturated limewater but not any of the solids. There will always be some crud left over in the bottom of the bucket. It's best to leave that in there until it really builds up. That crud that falls out of one batch of kalk will help to remove any impurities in the next batch.

[blanden.adam]

David hit the nail on the head regarding the Kalk. Do exactly that.

Now onto the nitrates: That is a bit high for a tank with SPS. How much are you feeding? What is your feeding schedule like? Exactly what did you transfer from the old aquarium? What is your substrate? What are your other nitrogen tests at? What do you use for flow in your tank? What are you using for mechanical/chemical/biological filtration. Do you have a sump? What are you growing in your fuge and how well is it growing? Does algae grow in your DT?

Now for the fish: Losing 3 fish in 6 weeks is certainly something to be concerned about. When did the tank transfer happen? Did you test for ammonia/nitrate after any of the fish deaths? Were there any new additions to the tank before the fish started dying? Are you quarantining all new arrivals?

The heavy breathing is not necessarily an indication that there wasn't enough oxygen, but just that the fish was stressed. Could have been disease, something toxic in the water, or any number of things. In fact, I'd be very surprised with a tank of your size if it was oxygen demand given your stocking list unless it was incredibly poorly aerated.

Alright, I think that's enough questions for now.

[Barro777]

My PH seems to only be 7.8 anytime

How do you measure your pH anyway? Might your probe calibration have wandered off? Check before you start dosing stuff.

[bolling]

David hit the nail on the head regarding the Kalk. Do exactly that.

Now onto the nitrates: That is a bit high for a tank with SPS. How much are you feeding? What is your feeding schedule like? Exactly what did you transfer from the old aquarium? What is your substrate? What are your other nitrogen tests at? What do you use for flow in your tank? What are you using for mechanical/chemical/biological filtration. Do you have a sump? What are you growing in your fuge and how well is it growing? Does algae grow in your DT?

Now for the fish: Losing 3 fish in 6 weeks is certainly something to be concerned about. When did the tank transfer happen? Did you test for ammonia/nitrate after any of the fish deaths? Were there any new additions to the tank before the fish started dying? Are you quarantining all new arrivals?

The heavy breathing is not necessarily an indication that there wasn't enough oxygen, but just that the fish was stressed. Could have been disease, something toxic in the water, or any number of things. In fact, I'd be very surprised with a tank of your size if it was oxygen demand given your stocking list unless it was incredibly poorly aerated.

Alright, I think that's enough questions for now.

[bolling]

David hit the nail on the head regarding the Kalk. Do exactly that.

Now onto the nitrates: That is a bit high for a tank with SPS. How much are you feeding? What is your feeding schedule like? Exactly what did you transfer from the old aquarium? What is your substrate? What are your other nitrogen tests at? What do you use for flow in your tank? What are you using for mechanical/chemical/biological filtration. Do you have a sump? What are you growing in your fuge and how well is it growing? Does algae grow in your DT?

Now for the fish: Losing 3 fish in 6 weeks is certainly something to be concerned about. When did the tank transfer happen? Did you test for ammonia/nitrate after any of the fish deaths? Were there any new additions to the tank before the fish started dying? Are you quarantining all new arrivals?

The heavy breathing is not necessarily an indication that there wasn't enough oxygen, but just that the fish was stressed. Could have been disease, something toxic in the water, or any number of things. In fact, I'd be very surprised with a tank of your size if it was oxygen demand given your stocking list unless it was incredibly poorly aerated.

Alright, I think that's enough questions for now.

I have two sps, both green stylophora, one is about 3 inches tall and the other one was just a tiny piece on a frag rock and it has grown quite noticeably in the 3 months we've had it. I am sure I overfeed, I feed two or three times a day alternating flake, pellets and frozen shrimp. I also feed corals with Azox and Phyto Feast 3 or four times a week.
I tested after each death and the nitrates were always between 10 to 20, 0 nitries and 0 ammonia
I have a 500 gph pump split into two outllets right at the surface creating turbulance all the time. I also have two powerheads on oposite sides blowing at each other along the back way. These are small and do not seem powerful enough to me. The corals are all flowing and moving so the part of the tank that shows seems to have plenty of movement.
It is an IM all in one tank that has media baskets on both sides. I replaced the left one with an InTank media basket which has a filter sponge on top, a filter bag with carbon and pura phosloc second and a phosphate sponge last. I run filter floss on top of everything that I change every morning. The right side I removed the media basket and made a fuge with chaeto. I also made a little tray to cover this and run a thin sponge with filter floss on top of that which a also clean everyday. I also have a needle wheel skimmer that I run in the next chamber.
There were no additions before the first fish death. It was a jawfish and it looked like his home collapsed and he was outside breathing very heavily. The days before he was very active, eating and looked great. The last death was the male dottyback and he looked good yesterday but I noticed he didn't eat. He would go after food and even took some but spit it back out.
I am not quarantining new arrivals, bad I know but the little store I get my fish from quarantines everything before I take it.
Thanks

[bolling]

a PH of 7.8 isn't going to kill three fish. I would imagine your oxygen is low in your tank due to the description of what the fish did prior to death. So you have a power heat pointed to the surface for agitation to help promote gas exchange? Do you have a skimmer? You can route your air line for the skimmer to fresh outside air. In the winter when people have their houses close up they end up getting higher co2 and less o2. Open some windows when the weather permits.

Yes I have both of my return nozzles pointed at the surface creating turbulance. I do have a skimmer and at this time it is just drawing in room air. We do open window quite often and my tank is open topped.
Thanks

[bolling]

How do you measure your pH anyway? Might your probe calibration have wandered off? Check before you start dosing stuff.

I just use an API kit.

[bolling]

I do use on Rodi water from a LFS. I do know part of my nitrate problem other than overfeeding was the salt water mix I was getting from one store had 10 ppm nitrates whent I tested it before putting it into aquarium. I now use a different store which is 0 nitrates.

[blanden.adam]

I would certainly cut down on your feedings :P That will go a long way toward solving your nitrate problem. Without a sump though, you may just have to deal with nitrates being higher than you would like. Also, you should get a tank with a sump. When I initially planned my tank, sumps seemed very intimidating and I planned the tank without one, but then before the cycle finished I decided to go ahead and build a sump for it, and it's the best decision I ever made for the tank. I love having a sump, and now can't even imagine trying to run a tank without one, or why anyone would even want to. They are that useful.

On a slightly more sad note, I don't know what's killing your fish. It's certainly not the nitrates, and probably not the oxygen. They were definitely stressed, but that's about all I can tell from the current information. As a side note, it doesn't matter if your LFS, a reef club member, your best friend, or even your own mother quarantines livestock before you get it -- if it's wet, you should quarantine it. If you trust your LFS or best friend, ok, but remember that accidents happen, and if there is a problem you can't rule out poor quarantining because you didn't do the quarantine yourself, and all it takes is 1 to make it through to wipe a tank.

Good luck with the rest of your fish!

[bolling]

I would certainly cut down on your feedings :P That will go a long way toward solving your nitrate problem. Without a sump though, you may just have to deal with nitrates being higher than you would like. Also, you should get a tank with a sump. When I initially planned my tank, sumps seemed very intimidating and I planned the tank without one, but then before the cycle finished I decided to go ahead and build a sump for it, and it's the best decision I ever made for the tank. I love having a sump, and now can't even imagine trying to run a tank without one, or why anyone would even want to. They are that useful.

On a slightly more sad note, I don't know what's killing your fish. It's certainly not the nitrates, and probably not the oxygen. They were definitely stressed, but that's about all I can tell from the current information. As a side note, it doesn't matter if your LFS, a reef club member, your best friend, or even your own mother quarantines livestock before you get it -- if it's wet, you should quarantine it. If you trust your LFS or best friend, ok, but remember that accidents happen, and if there is a problem you can't rule out poor quarantining because you didn't do the quarantine yourself, and all it takes is 1 to make it through to wipe a tank.

Good luck with the rest of your fish!

Thanks for the replies and good helpful information. I don't doubt the stress part but I did want to mention all the fish got along perfectly. The clown doesn't even mind when my citrous goby lays in his finger leather and the firefish will sit side by side in the hole with my Watchman goby and pistol shrimp. I won't be adding any more livestock for a long time because my tank was probably overstocked with fish as I had six at one time and it is full of corals. I do agree about the quarantine.
Thanks
I am very aprehensive about the Kalkwasser but I am going to try it and will keep a real close eye on my KH and PH