Mini upflow ATS for my 28 nanocube

[kalgra]

I have been running a JBJ 28g nano cube for a little over a year now. Along the way I have tried just about every kind of nutrient export out there with the exception of bio pellets. I also tired many of the top brands of nano skimmers (The in chamber not HOB). Nothing really seemed to work that well. If I ran chaeto with the JBJ nano glo fuge light in the basket in the back fuge it somehow always seem to block flow and collect detritus. If I ran chaeto without the basket it would get sucked down into the other chambers away from the light and just die. Actually it always seemed to die given enough time anyway.

The most success I really had was with VERY low feeding and running carbon and GFO in a two little fishies media reactor hanging off the side. This worked well for keeping algae out of my tank but also I believe might be responsible for pulling the vibrant colors out of the corals leaving them more of a pastel color rather than the electric colors that got me into coral in the first place.

I then saw the thread posted by Santamonica about the up flow Algae Turf Scrubber and thought it seemed like a good idea. I originally thought it would be great to use the JBJ nano glow light and all id need is the Knitting mesh, air pump, air stone, and some tubing. It worked ok but still not enough to do away with the GFO all together which is now my goal along with being able to feed allot more. A little more reading about ATSs revealed the warm white leds in the nano glow were probably not well suited for algae growth with an ATS.


First this is the original one I came up with:

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/Misc/jbjled.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/Misc/ATS1.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/Misc/ATS2.jpg





This is what I was getting after 10-14 days. Unfortunately this was not keeping up with the nutrient export and I was starting to see small signs of algae blooming in my display again after about a week. So I started running half the amount of GFO I was before for only half the amount of time and that seemed to balance things out again but the ATS stopped producing nearly as much algae.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/Misc/TS2.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/Misc/TS1.jpg


Ultimately this is what I want to be producing. This is not mine but another person who posted. Its about the same size as mine.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/UasFishuntbikeOnAS-2.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/UasFishuntbikeOnAS-3.jpg

[kalgra]

So this brings me to my updated build of a mini JBJ ATS light and this is what I came up with. Im very excited to see if I get a significant improvement over the nano glow. This is the new light I built in hopes of getting the right amount of reds and blue. For this I got a heat sink measuring 4"x4"x1" and 4 660nm 3w red leds and 1 455nm 3w royal blue. since the combined required voltage drop required was exactly 12 volts I was able to just use a 500mw 12v PC fan power adapter to drive all 5 LEDS. I used a 1/4" rubber gasket cut into strip to use as a standoff attached with 3M windshield/molding adhesive tape and a 1/16" 4"x4" piece of acrylic also attached and sealed with the 3M adhesive tape. Let me just take a minute to say this tape is darn near impossible to get of once it has time to cure. I had the misfortune of having to take it off to drill a couple holes and it took me over two hours to cut it off and completely scrape it away. I guess I don't have to worry about it ever coming apart.

I found a "hang on door" hook at Ace that seemed to be perfect for using as a bracket to just hang the light off the back of the fuge chamber. I'm sure I could have gone with a larger heat sink and found a way to incorporate magnets to attach the light like the JBJ nano glo but I didn't do this because from time to time you need to scrap the inside of the glass where the light shines though to get rid of algae film and coralline that build up reduce the lights ability to shine on the knitting mesh of the ATS. The magent on the nano glo was alway in the way and because my tank it pushed pretty tight again the wall it made for remove the magnet and light very difficult.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/E5CCB777-EC96-4BA9-B6BE-FC2C2890E387-1455-0000051B3DE36B86.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/E66C82B7-2AE5-4BCB-9545-0AA296C61B63-1455-0000051B3F2F7776.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/F64529B8-1F52-4996-9F4A-DBE2BFC0A69E-1455-000004D2A8562DEC.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/DEF63AA0-E08D-488D-975D-F3FFE484152C-1455-0000051B402F7AC7.jpg



This was after the first 5-6 days running along with the GFO to see how well.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/EFC6A762-22B1-43AD-8A57-DCFC0D26E024-1769-00000171915C205E.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/62B149D7-2C91-484F-8DFB-CAA4D9EDF4F1-1769-000001718D8BCD41.jpg


This is what I harvested after about 18-20 days. I had a little mishap with our tank sitter dumping hand lotion (yes hand lotion!) into my tank so the algae turned some weird colors as did my SPS :furious:. I have averted the lotion disaster and will now run the scrubber with no GFO at all for 18-20 days to see what kind of results I get.

Sorry I accidental deleted the pics that showed the screen before I scrapped the algae off.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/5E550D56-885C-4669-834E-2EE5CCBC41E3-654-000000831A408299.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/BE50BF35-893A-4F93-82CC-4C146FABCF9F-654-0000008339BB2649.jpg

[iced98lx]

Pefect timing, I just embarked on building this exact thing for biocube!! I'm snagging this for my light:

http://content.screencast.com/users/iced98lx/folders/Jing/media/d42f2bf1-fa94-4c1c-8a85-a0976efbadb8/2012-12-03_0937.png


And I'm working on building a screen/bubbler that sits in the fuge basket from mediabaskets.

Looks like your scrubber is working pretty well. How much are you feeding and what size is that screen? If I added a RB LED what output is that wall transformer (That seems like a $$ saver to me, since I have about 5390539 of those laying around lol)

What are you using for the bubbler? What air pump?

Sorry for the all the questions just perfect timing!

[kalgra]

Looks like your scrubber is working pretty well. How much are you feeding and what size is that screen? If I added a RB LED what output is that wall transformer (That seems like a $$ saver to me, since I have about 5390539 of those laying around lol)

What are you using for the bubbler? What air pump?

Sorry for the all the questions just perfect timing!

Right now I have been able to feed about 4x what I used to. I feed about a nickle size piece of a frozen blend of mysis, brine, blood worms, etc along with one scoop of reef chili, about 4 drops of reef nutrition row, 4-5 drops of reef nutrition oyster feast and 5 drops each of elso omega 3 and skimmer carb. I do all this one per day usually at night.

Some of the screan actually sticks out of the water but the part that is used is about 4"x4".

That wall transformer was meant to power a 12v computer fan. Its rated at 12v 500mA which just so happens to be what these 5 leds require. This transformer was about $10.

I'm currently using the fluval single "ultra quite" which isn't so quite lol. for the bubbler im now using a simple bubble wand found at any pet store.

Im actually running about twice the wattage in LEDs I should need for a screen this size so I have cut my photo period to 16hrs for the time being.

[iced98lx]

Thanks for all the info! I've got a bunch of transformers, I"m sure one will be around 500mA or so. I'm planning on this air pump:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YJ4NG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p199_d3_i5?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=0A5ZFM2SYSE6D8772FBH&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938811&pf_rd_i=507846

Thanks again for the inspiration and answers!

[kalgra]

Sure no problem! Im no expert but it seems to be working well. I think that air pump looks as good as any other for this application.

On a side note im not sure which is better the air stone or the bubble wands. The air stone was nice because it really aerated the water well but the bubbles were really fine. The weight of the airstone also helped to weight down the screen but it plugged up really fast. The bubble wand makes bigger bubbles and I was able to poke a few pin size holes in the foam materiel to control the flow of bubbles.

I don't know whats better, the large bubbles or smaller bubbles for making the maximum contact with the algae.

[SantaMonica]

When ordering LEDs get the 120 degree ("Lambertian") ones, without lenses.

[iced98lx]

When ordering LEDs get the 120 degree ("Lambertian") ones, without lenses.

if they were going to be within close(ish) proximity to the screen, I would agree. My screen is going to sit a distance away from the LED's, thus both the larger number (4 vs 2 of your design) and the lenses. Since you popped into this thread (kudos to you guys for your work, btw) what wavelength LED do you guys use? I thought i saw 660nm but I"m not sure what power you're driving them with.

OP: Keep posting updates :)

[kaskiles]

Kalgra, thanks for posting, I want to do the same thing with my JBJ 28g.

Do you know if you really need the air pump and bubble wand when running this way, since water is going to flow past the screen anyway? I think the original UAS uses the air pump to lift water up and through the screen.

Also, what brand LEDs did you use?

[kalgra]

Kalgra, thanks for posting, I want to do the same thing with my JBJ 28g.

Do you know if you really need the air pump and bubble wand when running this way, since water is going to flow past the screen anyway? I think the original UAS uses the air pump to lift water up and through the screen.

Also, what brand LEDs did you use?

Yes you need the the bubbles to provide the carbon dioxide, oxygen, and other atmospheric gases that help it grow. Because the screen is submerged it dosnt get as much. The ones that are the water fall type with wAter flowing down the screen don't need the air pump because they are already exposed to it.

It may work without but probably not as we'll.

I used Cree LEDs.

[SantaMonica]

660nm red has been the primary. 20% can be 450nm blue.

[duganderson]

I want to buy or build a ATS for my nano cube 28. Does anybody have updates or new builds for ATS for nano cube 28 with photos, plans, materials, etc?

Are you guys finding that it works best to put it the ATS in the media basket or behind?

Does anyone sell one that works in the back compartments of the nano cube 28? The Santa Monica one is a little too wide.

What is the best option for a light to buy instead of make yourself? I only have about 3 inches behind my cube. I'm thinking about seeing if Santa Monica filtration will sell only the light if I can't find a better option. Would this one be too big for this tank/screen?

Thanks

[kalgra]

So it's been about another three weeks. Still getting a ton of growth. Interesting thing though is that now most of the algae is growing everywhere in the fuge except where the light is most concentrated. This can only lead me to believe that the intensity is too high. I haven't figured out what ill do about this yet but I may need add a dimmer or reconfigure the lights.

Front
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/4A4FC42F-2A5F-499F-9C54-1314A7B5C76F-4401-0000062B35299B48.jpg

Back
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/7C415087-AA44-46DF-BD00-A4563676344B-4401-0000062B319EE8DC.jpg

With all the algae collected off the sides of the fuge it covers the whole screen in about 1/2" of very dense algae.
http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/FE74175C-74A7-412F-8C66-288AFD0D6657-4401-0000062B37B9FD08.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/261847FC-579E-4B7E-B858-6A9F5AD36411-4401-0000062B3A259109.jpg

[kalgra]

I want to buy or build a ATS for my nano cube 28. Does anybody have updates or new builds for ATS for nano cube 28 with photos, plans, materials, etc?

Are you guys finding that it works best to put it the ATS in the media basket or behind?

Does anyone sell one that works in the back compartments of the nano cube 28? The Santa Monica one is a little too wide.

What is the best option for a light to buy instead of make yourself? I only have about 3 inches behind my cube. I'm thinking about seeing if Santa Monica filtration will sell only the light if I can't find a better option. Would this one be too big for this tank/screen?

Thanks


Well there is Santimonica's thread on building them in general, calculations etc. As far as making one specifically for the JBJ 28, I'm the only one I know of that's done it or at least done it like mine.

If you did yours like mine then you don't need the basket it would just be in the way. I don't think anyone makes a light that would just work at least not well anyway. I already tried the one JBJ makes and it just didn't cut it, not for this purpose.

I only have 1.5" behind mine cube and the light I made fits just fine. You should have no issues with 3".

[kalgra]

For anyone who wants to make one of these for the jbj using my design I would recommend going with 1 watt Leds instead of the three watt Crees or at least make it dimable.

[nanomania]

nice...

[kalgra]

So Santamonica PMed me and recommended I drop my photo period to 9 hours so I am going to try this and report back in another three weeks.

[duganderson]

Kalgra or other folks using a similar setup......

Do you get a lot of algae growing in places other than the screen such as the media basket or chambers since there is not a cover around the screen the like HOG. 5? If so, is this growth hard to clean up or create problems?

I know the Kalgra has his screen where the media basket normally goes. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this setup with the screen between the media basket and glass back wall? It seems like there is enough space there and it would be closer to the light. Also, you could still use the top compartment for floss.

Thanks, Doug

[kaskiles]

I know the Kalgra has his screen where the media basket normally goes. I'm wondering if anyone has tried this setup with the screen between the media basket and glass back wall? It seems like there is enough space there and it would be closer to the light. Also, you could still use the top compartment for floss.


Seems like you could zip tie a 3x4" roughed up piece of screen directly to the back of the stock media basket. Having the screen back against the surface of the media basket might mess with the air bubbles coming up though... I bet it would still work though.

The hard parts with doing the ATS in the JBJ 28g seems to be mainly:
-no two sided growth
-small space for a light (need flat LED lighting)

[duganderson]

Pefect timing, I just embarked on building this exact thing for biocube!! And I'm working on building a screen/bubbler that sits in the fuge basket from mediabaskets.



I'm thinking about building one too in an in-tank media basket for a nano cube 28. I'm curious how this project is going and how well it's working? I would love to see some pictures/video or get some details about what you used for the build for the screen/bubbler/media basket setup. I plan to use the light from the Santa Monica Filtration HOG.5 on the outside of the tank.

If your willing, please post details and/or pictures/video OR PM or e-mail me.

Thanks, Doug

[kalgra]

Ok so it's been about another three weeks with the lights it backed down to 9 hours. I do have even better growth but still have the bald spots where the light is too intense. I've decided to try something else. I pulled the light off the tank and took some 400 grit sand paper and dulled the plastic cover right over each led a circle about the size of a dime. Hopefull this will diffuse the intensity enough to run the light more hours. So with the the diffuser in place I ramped the photo period back up to 16 hrs. Ill report back again in another three weeks.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/CDA06E37-7FD8-4601-84C2-C79D93E15A93-12201-0000105C746E9E4B.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/69395D02-0824-48BF-BC5A-1B66693EAFB1-12201-0000105C78FDFA52.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/E3BF8D2F-AEBF-4D14-94D3-D2BE7220D139-12201-0000105C7CCBA0D1.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/A3915561-745A-4679-8088-49F3F9AFE3CA-12201-0000105C803B4738.jpg

[kalgra]

Ok so it's been about another three weeks with the lights it backed down to 9 hours. I do have even better growth but still have the bald spots where the light is too intense. I've decided to try something else. I pulled the light off the tank and took some 400 grit sand paper and dulled the plastic cover right over each led a circle about the size of a dime. Hopefull this will diffuse the intensity enough to run the light more hours. So with the the diffuser in place I ramped the photo period back up to 16 hrs. Ill report back again in another three weeks.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/CDA06E37-7FD8-4601-84C2-C79D93E15A93-12201-0000105C746E9E4B.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/69395D02-0824-48BF-BC5A-1B66693EAFB1-12201-0000105C78FDFA52.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/E3BF8D2F-AEBF-4D14-94D3-D2BE7220D139-12201-0000105C7CCBA0D1.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/A3915561-745A-4679-8088-49F3F9AFE3CA-12201-0000105C803B4738.jpg

[SantaMonica]

Might want to hold off on increasing the hours.

[kalgra]

Yeah I suppose that makes good sense.

[kalgra]

So heres another update of my mini scrubber. Unfortunately even though I had tired to fog the lens with sandpaper the light is still too intense but it produces a ton of algae as is so the questions is should I leave well enough alone or build in a dimmer to truly optimize it?

This is my harvest from this morning.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/715DBD1A-CC76-4681-9A05-7E4F056985A7-20638-00001B43028F998D_zpsc84ea75f.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/A08474C5-AB9C-47D7-A03D-3586B07309F4-20638-00001B431603689F_zps0b3ceb92.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/42E81B78-56BA-440E-83F1-CBF671285399-20638-00001B4308FE8DF2_zpsa9ad07b8.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/A08474C5-AB9C-47D7-A03D-3586B07309F4-20638-00001B431603689F_zps0b3ceb92.jpg

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/EA330108-5380-4A88-81D6-DBC9AEB9264B-20638-00001B432909D620_zpse0ad97af.jpg

[SantaMonica]

I'd leave it.

You can try leaving a little more in the middle when cleaning.

[duganderson]

Wow...that seems like good growth. How many days of growth is that?

[kalgra]

Wow...that seems like good growth. How many days of growth is that?

I think its 22 or 23.

[duganderson]

I think its 22 or 23.

Most folks I read about seem to clean their screens after 1-2 weeks max because they start to get die off of the algae. I don't see any brown, dying algae on yours.

Any clue what helps you to get healthy growth for so long?

If other folks are reading this, is it true that 1-2 weeks is usually max for folks before cleaning?

[Wereami881]

Where is the scrubber mounted in the tank?

[kalgra]

Where is the scrubber mounted in the tank?

Its not mounted per say. The grey rigid plastic tube that is zip tied to the top of the mesh extends past the width of the main back chamber so it basically just hangs in the water with the rigid tubing resting on the chamber baffles.

The light also just hangs off the back outside of the tank shining through the back glass onto the screen.

http://i831.photobucket.com/albums/zz234/kalgra/DEF63AA0-E08D-488D-975D-F3FFE484152C-1455-0000051B402F7AC7.jpg

[Wereami881]

Oh know I see thanks! Is it worth me doing?

[kalgra]

Oh know I see thanks! Is it worth me doing?

I guess that's just a matter of opinion. To date it has worked better for me than any other form of nutrient export for this tank. I have this tank pushed very close to the wall and cannot run a HOB skimmer and don't have a sump. Perhaps a good HOB skimmer would be as good or maybe even better I don't know because I have never used one and its not an option for me currently.

I tried all the popular in tank skimmers meant for AIO tanks and none of them really worked out that well for me. It took me awhile and allot of trial and error to get this thing really dialed in and now I love it. This tank is SPS dominated and is doing better than ever since putting this in place.

Just like everything else in this hobby though what works for me my not work well for someone else. However its relatively cheap to put together. I think I spent $60 total and most of that was in the parts for building the light so its cheap enough that there is really no reason to not try it if you like the idea behind it.

[Shia]

Any updates on the ATS. I am thinking of doing the same thing, but am going to buy a light rather than try to build one. Any changes you have made since the orginal build? I am thinking of 6-red-1watt and 3-blue-1-watt bulbs. Do you think that would be okay for how close it is to the glass?

Thanks,

[kalgra]

Any updates on the ATS. I am thinking of doing the same thing, but am going to buy a light rather than try to build one. Any changes you have made since the orginal build? I am thinking of 6-red-1watt and 3-blue-1-watt bulbs. Do you think that would be okay for how close it is to the glass?

Thanks,

I broke this tank down to set up a larger 60 cube with sump. Now that I have room for a skimmer im no longer using the ATS.

If you have the same 28g nano cube ill sell you the one I built for $60 shipped if you are interested. Honestly I don't think you need that many leds. If you get too much light the algae wont grow. I think 4 reds and 1 royal blue in 1 watt would be good assuming you are doing it the same way I did. You could go with 6 and 3 but you might need to reduce the amount of time you run them.

[Shia]

I broke this tank down to set up a larger 60 cube with sump. Now that I have room for a skimmer im no longer using the ATS.

If you have the same 28g nano cube ill sell you the one I built for $60 shipped if you are interested. Honestly I don't think you need that many leds. If you get too much light the algae wont grow. I think 4 reds and 1 royal blue in 1 watt would be good assuming you are doing it the same way I did. You could go with 6 and 3 but you might need to reduce the amount of time you run them.

PM sent