My 50W "cannon" style multichip build

[mcgyvr]

Just started with 1 LED just to see how I liked it.
1 x 50w hybrid 24 x 10K + 24 x 445-460 nm royal blue chip (29Vf @1.8Amps)
1 x Meanwell LPF-60D-36 driver (36V @1.67A)
1 x Thermaltake SpinQ VT cooler

Still gotta mount it some how.. and need to get on the lathe and whip up a "trim" piece to seal around the lens/enclosure. I also need to grab my thermocouples from work and test the temps.. I ran it for 15 minutes last night and it was cool to the touch..
I'd describe the color as "very white with a hint of blue"
I plan to add 1 more of these fixtures plus some sort of DIY LED actinic (420nm) strip.

[megadeth72]

Where did you get the housing? Looks neat

[Spazdad]

Looks cool. What's the spread with the light about 4ft off the ground. ?

[mcgyvr]

Where did you get the housing? Looks neat
The Container Store.. $12. 6" x 8" acrylic container. Works perfect. Much cheaper than buying acrylic tube..
Can't decide if I want to paint it black or not.. I was thinking about leaving a clear 1" vertical stripe so you could see the internals/red led accent lighting just a bit. Its like some flux capacitor back to the future looking thing now..

I heat sink is WAY overkill and I might redo it with a smaller stock intel w/fan heatsink/smaller enclosure.. But IDK its sort of growing on me

[mcgyvr]

Looks cool. What's the spread with the light about 4ft off the ground. ?
90 deg optics.. You do the math :)

[daks]

tan 45deg =1 ( cone to right angle triangle = 1/2 the < at the apex/optics)
1x48 =48
48x2 (triangle to cone ) =96"

Or the easy way...
45deg optics = Spread = .82 x height
60deg optics = Spread = 1.15 x height
90deg optics = Spread = 2 x height
120deg optics = Spread = 3.75 times height (or 4 or 3.73205 depending how anal your "calculator" is... ;) )

[megadeth72]

The Container Store.. $12. 6" x 8" acrylic container. Works perfect. Much cheaper than buying acrylic tube..
Can't decide if I want to paint it black or not.. I was thinking about leaving a clear 1" vertical stripe so you could see the internals/red led accent lighting just a bit. Its like some flux capacitor back to the future looking thing now..

I heat sink is WAY overkill and I might redo it with a smaller stock intel w/fan heatsink/smaller enclosure.. But IDK its sort of growing on me

yeah I saw it's rated for 130 watts, I need one that can do 200

[miatawnt2b]

I like the container. I used one of these for mine. Fits the standard cpu cooler justabout perfectly.
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/30131716/

[Spazdad]

tan 45deg =1 ( cone to right angle triangle = 1/2 the < at the apex/optics)
1x48 =48
48x2 (triangle to cone ) =96"

Or the easy way...
45deg optics = Spread = .82 x height
60deg optics = Spread = 1.15 x height
90deg optics = Spread = 2 x height
120deg optics = Spread = 3.75 times height (or 4 or 3.73205 depending how anal your "calculator" is... ;) )


Wow. So are u telling me the spread at 4 ft is 96"

[keener1830]

what is your tank dimensions? I have a 120 that is 48x24x24 that I was thinking of using two of these on.

[Lassef]

@mcgyvr: Awesome build!

However - my experiences with lenses and a chip of your type (half of the chip blue and half of the chip white) easily cause separations of blue and white in the aquarium. I prefer these hybrids there every second row is blue (or white). They are normally a little bit more expensive but give a more equal spread together with lenses.

What are your experiences - are there difference between the amount of blue and white between the different sides of the aquarium in your set up?

Sincerely Lasse

[nanolover80]

I know it was asked up there, but Where did you get the housing?

[mcgyvr]

@mcgyvr: Awesome build!

However - my experiences with lenses and a chip of your type (half of the chip blue and half of the chip white) easily cause separations of blue and white in the aquarium. I prefer these hybrids there every second row is blue (or white). They are normally a little bit more expensive but give a more equal spread together with lenses.

What are your experiences - are there difference between the amount of blue and white between the different sides of the aquarium in your set up?

Sincerely Lasse
Lasse, I've only had it on top of the tank for a few minutes (getting the thermocouples today) but I did not notice any separation of colors. But once its mounted above the tank and I can pull my old fixture out of the way I will check again.

[mcgyvr]

I know it was asked up there, but Where did you get the housing?
See post #4. The Container Store

[Chaucer]

Thanks for posting the pictures, they help a lot. I was kicking around something in a cannon style to "aim" at the SPS section of my tank as a supplement to my t5's. Probably will go bluer though. :thumbsup:

[daks]

Wow. So are u telling me the spread at 4 ft is 96"

With a perfect lens, light source mounted perfectly, in a perfect vacuum... Yes...

[mcgyvr]

Temp testing completed.
This is with the unit as shown above. I'm not happy with the temps at all. The container/vent holes are really restricting air flow from that heat sink. Max temp was 55 deg C. Took roughly 1 hour for temps to stabilize. This was running 100% current. see attached image

I did another test with the top cover off and it ran for 10 minutes before my stupid cat came running across the room and tripped on the USB cable from the datalogger thus stopping the test. The temps had dropped 15+ degrees C with the top cover off though so far.

I think I'm gonna scrap this one and try something else. Maybe like this http://www.nuventix.com/files/uploaded_files/pf_SynJet%20ZFlow%2090%2060W%20Spotlight%20Cooler%20E0X%20Preliminary%20Jan%202011.pdf

[megadeth72]

what did you use to log the temp?

I stuck mine in some pvp, full open on top and bottom so it can vent, I'm using an intel p4 heatsink, tdp rated for 130 I believe

there are heatsinks rated for up to 300w tdp now, but they are huge square bricks

[mcgyvr]

what did you use to log the temp?


Measurement Computing USB-TC logger and the horribly crappy Tracer DAQ software that comes with it. My uber nice Agilent mainframe is being used this week/next week for UL testing at work.
I thought it would be nice to actually have a graph to show.. Its important to note that it took 1 hour to stabilize. You can't just throw a thermometer on it after 15 minutes all call it safe.
While 55 deg C is perfectly fine, I can't just leave it as is.. I want to improve it. (its my nature). This is prototype #1.. a few more to come probably. Just wanted a baseline.

Removing the top or opening up the vent holes should drastically improve the results. But at 6" OD x 8" high its just too large for me now that I've been looking at it for a few days. A fun start but not good enough.
I'm gonna look around tonight for other fan/sink solutions (non-CPU stuff) and see whats out there now.. Might just order one of those Synjet coolers I linked to above. Its very low profile..

[O2Surplus]

Might just order one of those Synjet coolers I linked to above. Its very low profile..

I've been using the Nuventix heat sinks and Synjet coolers to cool my BridgeLux multi-emitter arrays (BXRA-C4500) for a little over a year now. The arrays are being driven at 50 watts. The Synjets are totally silent and the Heat sinks are effective enough that they remain barely warm to the touch even after running all day I'm not sure if they make any higher wattage coolers than the ones I've got, but I haven't looked at their product line recently.

[mcgyvr]

I've been using the Nuventix heat sinks and Synjet coolers to cool my BridgeLux multi-emitter arrays (BXRA-C4500) for a little over a year now. The arrays are being driven at 50 watts. The Synjets are totally silent and the Heat sinks are effective enough that they remain barely warm to the touch even after running all day I'm not sure if they make any higher wattage coolers than the ones I've got, but I haven't looked at their product line recently.

Excellent.. I actually just placed the Digikey order a few minutes ago for
1 x NX300100 Configurable 60W heat sink
1 x NX200108 12V PWM Synjet Zflow 90 cooler

The 50W multichip should fit "perfectly" snug into the heatsink mounting area. 56.5mm ID/mounting pad..

Should have parts/temp result/pics by Saturday..

[megadeth72]

I would not be surprised if those are worse than the cpu heatsink you have now, these 50+w chips really need copper core or better cooling

I'm pushing my 50w chip at 60w and the intel oem heatsink is keeping under 38c, the heatsink I'm using has a full copper core

[mcgyvr]

I would not be surprised if those are worse than the cpu heatsink you have now, these 50+w chips really need copper core or better cooling

I'm pushing my 50w chip at 60w and the intel oem heatsink is keeping under 38c, the heatsink I'm using has a full copper core
I plan to test the SpinQ heatsink without the "clear cookie jar" around it before I take it all apart. Thats the problem now with that.

But yeah, I would not be surprised either if the Synjet solution, watt for watt, can't dissipate as much as the CPU sink (manufacturer claims state that already).

For me, the sleek low-profile look of the Synjet is more than likely gonna beat out the large ugly overkill cpu cooler. Mamma lied when she said "looks don't matter". :eek:

[megadeth72]

you have to put the heatsink in something, I use a 4" pvc coupler painted black on a black gooseneck

[mcgyvr]

you have to put the heatsink in something, I use a 4" pvc coupler painted black on a black gooseneck
No.. actually I don't :)

[megadeth72]

so explain what your doing with the aluminum one you ordered?

[O2Surplus]

Here's a picture of the Zflow 90 coolers that I've been running.They're spec'd for the particular leds that I'm using and perform very well.

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/BridgeLuxLEDNueventixCooler003.jpg

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/BridgeLuxLEDNueventixCooler002.jpg

http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab172/kovawa/BridgeLuxLEDNueventixCooler001.jpg

[mcgyvr]

so explain what your doing with the aluminum one you ordered?
^^ There you go.. They are "pretty" enough to leave exposed.
I'll just make a goose-neck or something to attach them to the tank and leave it as is... "naked style" :thumbsup:

[megadeth72]

I run a 50 as a pendant, im not a fan of that setup for one big reason
One the lens will glare i cant stand them without a shield

I dont think that one looks any better than a kessil or plastic housing or any worse for that matter

Mine has 14 wires going into it
5x2 for led
2 for temp
2 for fan

[miatawnt2b]

5x2 for LED?

edit: Doh... nevermind. you have a hybrid chip.
-J

[megadeth72]

5x2 for LED?

edit: Doh... nevermind. you have a hybrid chip.
-J

Yeah 5 channel multichip, im going to use dvi cable

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[kcress]

Looks pretty cool er, neat I mean.

I'm always depressed by how badly 'holes' perform in air flows. Consider using those chrome fan covers for the top. On the bottom you could slot the cylindrical body with three arcs. The slots can be pretty big and still keep fingers out. Then the face could be uninterrupted with diffracting hole patterns.

You could also slot the top of the cylinder just like the bottom too.

Thanks for putting this thread up.

[iced98lx]

those Z flows are nice looking for sure.

mcgyvr I'm working on a similar build for my tank but it's 24 inches deep vs your 18. If you were building for a 24 inch deep tank, now that you have chips in hand, would you stick with the 50w versions, or bump up to the 100 chip model? You said you're running a 90 degree optic on them, are you going to be covering a 24x24 inch space 18 inches deep with two of them?

Don't mean to put words into your mouth, I'm mainly trying to figure out if I'm trying to cover the same space you are but deeper so I can use your experience to influence my build.

Thanks!!

Chris

[cephalotus]

@O2Surplus were did you get your lens and reflector? They do not look like ac-rc stock.
Your pendants look good are you having any heat issues?
Passive?
Are those 50watts?
Thanks, I may try something similar with my 50w Dreamchips

[emilypres]

Just out of curiosity what is the cost of something like this - i am a diy'er but this might be a bit out of my league.

[mcgyvr]

mcgyvr I'm working on a similar build for my tank but it's 24 inches deep vs your 18. If you were building for a 24 inch deep tank, now that you have chips in hand, would you stick with the 50w versions, or bump up to the 100 chip model? You said you're running a 90 degree optic on them, are you going to be covering a 24x24 inch space 18 inches deep with two of them?

Don't mean to put words into your mouth, I'm mainly trying to figure out if I'm trying to cover the same space you are but deeper so I can use your experience to influence my build.

Thanks!!

Chris

The 50W chips IMO are PLENTY for 24".. Its VERY bright on the sand bed. My clam put on his sunglasses when I turned that sucker on over him.

[O2Surplus]

@O2Surplus were did you get your lens and reflector? They do not look like ac-rc stock.
Your pendants look good are you having any heat issues?
Passive?
Are those 50watts?
Thanks, I may try something similar with my 50w Dreamchips

I posted those photos mainly to show the Nuventix Heat sink and Synjet cooler, since they'd been mentioned by a previous poster.I purchased all the components for my pendants from DigiKey. I'm running the now obsolete BridgeLux BXRA-C4500 led array. That model of heat sink and synjet cooler were specifically designed for it. The reflector is a 24 degree model made by Lidil.

[mcgyvr]

Just out of curiosity what is the cost of something like this - i am a diy'er but this might be a bit out of my league.

ballpark..
$20-40 for the LED
$30 for the driver
$20-50 for a heatsink/fan combo

[kcress]

covering a 24x24 inch space 18 inches deep with two of them?
Chris

down to 24" doesn't require anything special. 28" and beyond do benefit from added optics.

[iced98lx]

down to 24" doesn't require anything special. 28" and beyond do benefit from added optics.

So go optic less for a 24" cube of water to light? Sounds (cheaper) good to me lol.

Sorry to clutter up your build thread, mcgyvr, I enjoy seeing your progress, trial and iterations.

[mcgyvr]

So go optic less for a 24" cube of water to light? Sounds (cheaper) good to me lol.

Sorry to clutter up your build thread, mcgyvr, I enjoy seeing your progress, trial and iterations.

I wouldn't go without optics.. 90 deg or tighter IMO.
The optics are only a few bucks..

[megadeth72]

I would not go without either, it's 5 $ for optics

[mcgyvr]

BIG difference.
Max temp with the synjet heatsink is 38 deg C
And temps stabilized much quicker this time. (well more or less. it was still creeping up a bit and I was monkeying with it..hence the goofy spikes)

Here is both..
test 1 is with the CPU cooler/clear "cookie" jar
test 2 is with the synjet heatsink/cooler setup in free air.
pics of heatsink to come..

[mcgyvr]

Here are the pics.. Its soo small and cute :lmao:
Might find some sort of 1" tall 4" OD black metal ring of some sort to go below the heatsink and hide the reflector part but other than that this sucker is Excellent.
That synjet cooler is very quiet (at full power even).. sounds like a quiet Tom's aqualifter pump.

I just had to drill/tap 4 x #4-40 holes for the LED mounting, mount the synjet, slap on a thin layer of thermal grease to the LED, tighten it down and wire it up.. Super simple.

Now to fashion some sort of goose neck to mount it to the tank.. Then get out the wallet again and buy another led/driver/synjet to stuff my Xmas stocking. 4 total over my 72" L tank would work perfect for anything you want to grow.

[O2Surplus]

Nice! Glad to hear that you're happy with them. They're only warming to 38C, Awesome!

[megadeth72]

those are way larger than I pictured, what was the max temp in the housing you used compared to the cpu heatsink?

my son has a 50w epistar 450-470 led, I do not have a spare hybrid/mixed at the moment

I'm getting 450 par at the water surface, 280 on the sandbed on his 10 gallon tank

we redid how we are suspending it, I dont like the wires so I'm going to move my cube to the same type of setup, I tried a gooseneck but they dont support the heatsink weight

http://www.geekopolis.com/Other/2012/i-Pcsw6Kh/0/L/IMG_1238-L.jpg

http://www.geekopolis.com/Other/2012/i-KrBmcR6/0/L/IMG_1239-L.jpg

[megadeth72]

Got a new multichip to test today, it's a bright white light, needs a little more blue imo

6500K-7500K 30x
450nm~455nm 20x

Some par meter results

In tank and distance from lens
surface 470par 9.5"
sandbed 300par 18"
corner 175par 18"

top corners 90par 9.5"
dead center 268par 9.5"

24" air results 90par
36" air results 48par

[iced98lx]

what's going on with your testing and chips? Settled on one?

[mcgyvr]

F#&*in China..
Ordered another LED..exactly the same "spec" as last time and its a TOTALLY different color. Much less blue and "looks" TWICE as bright.. Had to dim it to 50% to match the other as far as the "perceived" brightness goes..
This sucks.. I'm gonna just leave it for now..

Once I have more time..(and money :) ) I was actually thinking about making my own "cluster" of LED's on one big PCB with individual drivers IC for each LED built into the board also.. Each LED would have its own current adjustment potentiometer and then the whole cluster is PWM dimmable.. That way I can dial in the exact mix I like then be able to dim the whole thing. I can easily do SMT reflow,etc.. and PCB's are "fairly" cheap now.

[iced98lx]

F#&*in China..
Ordered another LED..exactly the same "spec" as last time and its a TOTALLY different color. Much less blue and "looks" TWICE as bright.. Had to dim it to 50% to match the other as far as the "perceived" brightness goes..
This sucks.. I'm gonna just leave it for now..

Once I have more time..(and money :) ) I was actually thinking about making my own "cluster" of LED's on one big PCB with individual drivers IC for each LED built into the board also.. Each LED would have its own current adjustment potentiometer and then the whole cluster is PWM dimmable.. That way I can dial in the exact mix I like then be able to dim the whole thing. I can easily do SMT reflow,etc.. and PCB's are "fairly" cheap now.

BAHHH That's my biggest fear. I'll probably order 3 of the chip i settle on right away and use the one i have for a fuge or frag tank or something, just in case.

[Spazdad]

We tested out a 50w "20000k" version last night. Came up with 90 par on 21" deep water with it about 5" from water. This was with no optic. Have you tested without optic?, can you comment on spread and which optic you chose.

Btw. The 20k bulb we ordered was actually really close to around a 12k color in my eyes. I'm going to order 4 30000k 100w just so I can get a decent " common" batch.

[megadeth72]

what's going on with your testing and chips? Settled on one?

I'm using a dreamchip on my tank, my son has one of the 50w chips I already had

[mcgyvr]

We tested out a 50w "20000k" version last night. Came up with 90 par on 21" deep water with it about 5" from water. This was with no optic. Have you tested without optic?, can you comment on spread and which optic you chose.

Btw. The 20k bulb we ordered was actually really close to around a 12k color in my eyes. I'm going to order 4 30000k 100w just so I can get a decent " common" batch.

Cool. I'm running no optics.. The spread is great.. 2 x 50W 4" above the water and 12" off center on a 72" long tank and it fills the tank with light perfectly.. Don't have a par meter to test.. (PM me anyone if you wouldn't mind me borrowing one from you for a day or 2..)

I'd love to see pics of that 20000K just to see how much blue there really is.. I'm not happy with this last one at all and will probably order 2 more so they hopefully match and be "slightly more blue" than the first one I got..

Also need to get a few minutes to test the bulbs on the DIY spectrometer I built over the weekend (made the fold-able one from here just for kicks http://publiclaboratory.org/tool/spectrometer ) Actually seemed to work pretty well just attached to my smart phone with a CFL bulb..

[megadeth72]

if your near ft bragg or sanford I have a par meter you can borrow

[mcgyvr]

if your near ft bragg or sanford I have a par meter you can borrow
in Raleigh actually so not too far.. might tank you up on that offer one day when its more "finished"

[Spazdad]

down to 24" doesn't require anything special. 28" and beyond do benefit from added optics.

We tested no optic 50w and came up with 90 par. Not good enough for me. This was on a 120 with a 3" sb.

[megadeth72]

90 par at what distance? distance is everything, inverse square law and everything

and optics do make a big difference

[Spazdad]

I understand the optics. 5-7" from water. Full blast.

http://www.wireefsociety.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13209

[megadeth72]

there was something very wrong with it, how much wattage was the driver drawing? mine put out 500+ par at 5" from the led

[Spazdad]

This was not mine. View link. It's just a friends. I had no part in assembly. I just know we cranked up and took readings.

[megadeth72]

I guess I'm not understanding, exactly how far was the par meter from the emitter?

[Spazdad]

We tested out a 50w "20000k" version last night. Came up with 90 par on 21" deep water with it about 5" from water. This was with no optic. Have you tested without optic?, can you comment on spread and which optic you chose.

Btw. The 20k bulb we ordered was actually really close to around a 12k color in my eyes. I'm going to order 4 30000k 100w just so I can get a decent " common" batch.

[megadeth72]

I see now, so 24" from emitter that's exactly the same par as mine at that distance, with lens, mine is a 2:1 white:blue

My kids tank usess a led that's between 14 and 20k, the color looks pretty good on the spectrometer and my eyes, but the CRI is bad, green algae looks more brown than anything, but the corals seem to like it

[Spazdad]

Are you happy with that par. If that's full out don't you wanna run them at alittle dialed back. IMO I would do the 100w chips after 18". We didn't even have that good of par half way down to that point. 250w halides have more spectrum and double if not triple the par.
I could see 1 100w + 20 or 50w rb followed by some 3-10w red green uv maybe reg blue aswell.

What you think. That would still be a 30-40% energy savings an have ability for dawn dusk, moon and color tweak

[megadeth72]

yeah, but my tank is no where near 24" deep, I run them full out

on my main tank I run the dream chip at about 50 % of what it can do, and I favor the 420-450 range, I run the whites pretty low

[Spazdad]

Does anyone know the builder of the dreamchip. And sir how are you controlling ur deam

[megadeth72]

I have 5x ld-1000h on a circuit board ran by an arduino running jarduino

I found the dreamchip too white for my taste, so I am running two extra 450nm 20w multichips off one of the white channels, I mounted them to the heatsink fins, it keeps them cool enough with the fan over them

http://www.geekopolis.com/Other/2012/i-WKTFKkc/0/L/IMG_1246-L.jpg

[zachts]

just for ideas, the 40 watt nuventix heatsink can accomodate 12 star chips drilled and tapped, probably a few more if glued. these are really slick looking IMO. easily could cool 12 3up star chips! I cheaped out on the synjet....... originally thought I'd cut a hole thur the top of my canopy and have 4 of these just stickingout the top, as conversation pieces. this ones nice cause it has a hole for wire runs already on the mounting surface.