Yellow Tang white fuzzy looking spots

[lil_delta]

Hi everyone,

All fish seem fine except my yellow tang which I noticed yesterday had these funny spots. I Googled Ich but it doesn't specifically look like Ich but kinda like flukes so I would like help with a more definitive diagnosis. The only thing that is different in the tank as of two days ago is I bought a cleaning package from reefcleaners.org whole bunch of misc snails (40g package to supplement my minimal cleaning crew). I think it might be a coincidence but it might not be...

No I do not have a QT tank because I have not bought any new livestock, and I do dip the corals( I have only bought a few small frags and that was 1+ month ago). I didn't know I need to worry about adding snails and maybe I should have QT'd them...

I bought the tank (tank, stand, live rock, fish, corals, etc) off CL about 6+ months ago (guy said he had it up for about 6 months) and it has been fantastic, had a slight cyano and brown algae bloom for a while as it did a re-cycle after the move. But seems to have stabilized.

My stats are as follows:
Temp 80
Salinity 1.025
Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
Calcium 480
(if you need anything else let me know)

Tank 65gal (39l x 18d x22h)
Sump/Refugium 40gal (roughly 20ish gal

Skimmer Reef Octopus NWB 150

Lights 1x250W MH and 2x 14k T5's

I do 5gal water changes every week with oceanic sea salt mix and top off daily/every other day with RO/DI at 0 tds.

Fish Stock:
1x Yellow Tang
1x Green Birdmouth Wrasse
1x False Percula Clown Fish
3x Chromis

Coral Stock:
1x Frogspawn
12x+ brown mushroom things
2x blue mushroom things
1x green candy cane
3x frags of misc zoanthids
2x frags of green flowing hair
1x Birds nest
1x frag Chalice
Misc other corals

1 Seabae Anemone

Feeding:
Feed Fish ever day 1 frozen brine gum drop and 3 sq inches of Sallys Green Marine Algae sheets both San Francisco Bay Brand
Spot feed Corals Coral Frenzy every 2-3 nights
Feed Anemone every Saturday a silverside

PLEASE HELP!

Thanks

[lil_delta]

So this is the tank if you need some more info or to just check it out.

https://plus.google.com/photos/103329693515057037836/albums/5815413110852934113

[b0bab0ey]

Are these spots all over the fish or just the fin? I think it's likely Ich (or Velvet). The spots are too numerous to be (small) Lympho. It's also very possible that Ich was in the water with the snails.

[lil_delta]

I even tried to filter all the water out from the snails... place snails in fish net, shake and then put them in tank with minimal water.

:worried:

Now to get a tank and try and fix this guy.

No the spots aren't just on his fin. They are on a couple other areas.

Also... am I gonna have to take out all my fish... I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this but not happy about it, also I have no idea where to put them :(

How big does my QT tank need to be to put all these fish in? or should i put each one in a smaller QT tank?

I need to do some reading ugh...

Thanks

[b0bab0ey]

I even tried to filter all the water out from the snails... place snails in fish net, shake and then put them in tank with minimal water.

A little trick I learned from someone on here is putting 3-4 snails at a time in a net and then gently pouring some of your tank water over them. This should "wash away" any parasite hitchhikers since they can't actually attach to a non-fish.

Also... am I gonna have to take out all my fish... I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this but not happy about it, also I have no idea where to put them :(

How big does my QT tank need to be to put all these fish in? or should i put each one in a smaller QT tank?

Unfortunately, they all need to be treated now. I think you could get away with doing it in, say, a 20 gal. Bigger would obviously be better. You're looking at a lot of WCs to control the ammonia, so I suggest you pick up one of these:

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html

I need to do some reading ugh...

I would start with these stickies:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2159738

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1992196

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2119086

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2041951

[MrTuskfish]

Its possible for ich to stay "invisible" for the 6 months you've had the tank & fish. Usually, the move would have triggered any "hiding" ich; but that isn't always the case. Nothing about ich is ever 100%; except the fact that its a PITA. It isn't for everyone; but I just assume any new fish has ich (or other parasites) and treat accordingly.

[lil_delta]

So I have a a 10 gallon QT setup and thinking if I should get a couple more or buy a bigger one... for right now.

So my initial thinking was buy a couple more 10gal tanks and split the fish up.. I think that would be easier to control ammonia and other misc. stuff, but was worried because I have heard that If I use copper in the tank I can't use anything from that setup anywhere else. Which in a couple months when this whole ordeal is over I was thinking of converting 2 of the tanks to some sort of pod breeding system... but I don't know if I can.

So if I were to setup 3 10 gallon tanks (filters, heaters, etc) as QT could I re-purpose them if I use copper in them down the road?

Is there a way to de-copperfy a fish QT tank for use as a coral QT tank?

Is there a way to de-copperfy just the heater?

Should I just buy a bigger tank for my fish QT tank (seems overkill down the road)?

Any thoughts, suggestions, etc are greatly appreciated!

And for previous posters thanks for all your quick replies and I have read all links posted.

[MrTuskfish]

The myth that copper is absorbed by the silicone in a tank just won't die. Rub down the tank with vinegar, rinse well, then use the tank for anything. Rinsing the heater, etc. well will "decopperfy; them Glass and acrylic don't absorb copper. A bigger QT tank makes more sense to me than a few small ones.

[lil_delta]

Well, I bought a 20 gal long and have it setup with filter and heater. I figure I should go with the long to help the tang with some more space since they swim so much... Also cut a bunch of PVC for hiding places for all the fish.

The fish are still in my main tank as I am waiting for the copper meds to arrive and that would also give my filter floss and PVC pieces some time to seed in my sump.

Also, I heard that garlic helps sometimes and I was a lil worried for my tang so I got some Kent Marine Garlic Extreme and have been soaking the food in it before feedings since yesterday... well there are no more indications of Ich. I still plan to QT everyone but is that a lil weird? I understand the cycles of Ich and all but for the tang to be spotless almost immediately is strange.

Also I am pretty excited to hear that copper doesn't leech into my equipment or that a good cleaning should take care of it.

Regardless I'm pretty stoked that I have a QT tank and plan to QT everything I can! I will keep this thread informed of my experiences.

[b0bab0ey]

Also, I heard that garlic helps sometimes and I was a lil worried for my tang so I got some Kent Marine Garlic Extreme and have been soaking the food in it before feedings since yesterday... well there are no more indications of Ich. I still plan to QT everyone but is that a lil weird? I understand the cycles of Ich and all but for the tang to be spotless almost immediately is strange.

If the white spots are gone, it just means that the trophonts have fallen off the fish and are now on the substrate (protomont stage). It will continue it's life cycle over & over again until no fish are present for it to host on. And it doesn't necessarily have to host under the skin; It can host in the gills where you'll never see it. I have a PBT, notorious for being Ich magnets, that displayed symptoms of Ich in her gills for months and yet I never saw any white spots during that time.

Fish seem to like the taste of garlic, so it naturally increases appetite and that in and of itself will boost your fishes immune systems. However, there is no scientific evidence that garlic has any direct effect on Ich.

[lil_delta]

If anyone was following this here are the results. I kept all the fish in the 20 gal QT for about 13 weeks. I medicated with Seachem Cupramine for many weeks and then a couple extra I think just to make sure. My DT was left fallow for far to long... it was kinda sad looking but what are you going to do. After all was said and done I re-introduced the ich-free looking fish back into the DT. And so far so good. No ich, tank looks great, and fish are SUPER happy to be back home. It is really awesome seeing all of them back in the tank swimming around. Thanks for all the suggestions and advice!