View Full Version : Giving up the fight with GHA
pkane11384
12/16/2012, 08:48 PM
The rock I inherited when I got my tank has won the fight. GHA is kicking my butt. I currently have 30 pounds of rock cooking in a Rubbermaid tote. Hopefully by mid-January or the end of January I'll have the new rock in the tank. Do you think 4-6 weeks will be enough to cook this rock? I'll post before and after picture's when I swap everything out. I'm getting antsy already and I just put the rock in....
pkane11384
12/17/2012, 07:32 AM
Does anyone have any input?
tommyz44
12/17/2012, 07:42 AM
is your hair algae growing from the rock itself or is it all over the glass too? test for phosphate if you can. also i recommend dosing lanthanum chloride to the rocks cooking to eliminate any phosphates from them that might be leaching. but for your question are you swapping out all of the rock or a few at a time?
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kegogut
12/17/2012, 07:56 AM
When I first got all my rock with my tank on Clist I took it all outside and blasted it with the hose and left it out in the sun for a couple weeks. You should also test for phosphates also like tommyzs44 said. if theyre high get a gfo reactor,I just purchased the tlf phosban 150.With all the prepared food we give our fish these days gfo is almost a must these days.
Mr. Demeanor
12/17/2012, 08:39 AM
Have you tried the peroxide dip on the rock with GHA. I did and mine was wiped out overnight. Once its knocked out, a good cleanup crew with a tang, foxface, etc. will keep it gone. They wont go after large GHA patches but they will do a great job on small, short, and new patches.
My experience was that you can reduce nutrients to nearly zero but once it is established its really not possible to starve it out of your tank. The dip did not harm anything else on the rock including sponges, feather dusters, even a couple aptasia.
pkane11384
12/17/2012, 08:43 AM
Tested for phosphates and came up with 0. I know it probably isn't true though.
At tommyz44, I'm replacing it all at once. I just need to wait for the rock to finish cooking. Just wanted a timetable on how long it might take.
I'm not opposed to running a GFO reactor in the tank. CPR makes one that will fit in the back of my BioCube, but i'm not sure if I should run Phosban or ROWAphos
pkane11384
12/17/2012, 09:00 AM
@Mr. Demeanor, the only problem I have doing that is I have a Toadstool Leather and RBTA on two of the rocks in the tank at the moment. A little apprehensive on trying to remove them. I know it's going to be inevitable but I want to make sure it's going to work 100% before I try and remove them from the rock. What percentage of peroxide did you do for the dip?
rrasco
12/17/2012, 10:00 AM
Definitely treat the rocks you are curing with LC. I did with my BRS dry rock. I didn't have any po4 issues like some. You can dose LC to your tank (read up on it first), but if those rocks in the tank are slowly leaching po4, it could take some time for it to deplete.
pkane11384
12/17/2012, 10:10 AM
@rrasco, The rocks in the tank I got with the tank. It was established and the GHA was already there. I didn't treat them before putting them back in the tank because I thought I would be able to handle it. Mind you i'm only running a BC 29 and i'd like to find out if it's reef safe. I don't want to stress anything out or potentially kill anything
tommyz44
12/17/2012, 10:48 AM
I did the same i got rocks from someone also i have phosphates leach from BRS rocks as well. I would recomend you do a Lanthanum dose on the rocks before you put them in. Its fairly cheap stuff and you wont have to use much. If you plan on doing inside the tank do some serious reading. BUT if you do it outside while curring your totally fine. Dose the bin its in. It should cloud up if there is alot of phosphates. Remove the rock drain the container and rince off the rocks for a few days in new or water change Salt water. This will prevent leaching. Im building a new tank now with new cooked and LaCl dosed rocks just becuase my 29 is so over run with Hair algae. You will see 0.00 phos because the algae is eating as much as is in the system so its at perfect equilibrium. If you pull the HA you will see an increase in phosphates. Even if you have GFO it might take away from that but if the rock is loaded it will still grow untill you eliminate the phosphates from the rock itself. I have kept my tank PO4 at 0.00 for a month now and i still see growth from the algae slower now but still have some because its eating right from the rock itself.
As far as peroxide its a good solution to get rid of the Hair algae. Unfortunatly 1) some coral wont like it at all and possibly die. 2) you kill the hair algae and also bacteria. Hence why you put H2O2 on cuts and infections. It kills good and bad bacteria. This is good for like zoanthid frags gets the HA out of those small nooks between polyps.
I HIGHLY recomend dosing some LaCl before you put them into the tank. I wish i had in the beginning. Plus its really safe if you do it while the rock is still outside the tank. Since the Lanthanum reacts with the phosphates instantly. You just rinse good and the lanthanum phosphate dust will fall off.
But to answer your question you should be fine, but how long has it been established should have enough good bacteria in the sand and stuff. I know some people think it doesnt work but i would dose a little stability from seachem or like bio spira. Ive always notised less cycle time when i do so i feel like the bacteria does work. It will help replentish it while the new rock is in. Im going to tag along on this becuase i would love to see your before and after shots.
pkane11384
12/17/2012, 10:58 AM
@tommyz44, I will post a shot soon. Where can you purchase it. I think I will definitely dose it while the rock is cooking. My friend, who I got the tank and rock from, had it up for over two years before I took it. So the rock I have was with her for two years and has been in my tank since I got it back up and running since early July of this year. I used BIO-Spira when I set the tank up. I guess I should use it when I change the rock out? Would you suggest using it while I cook the rock?
tommyz44
12/17/2012, 11:28 AM
You can get it at most pool stores mine didnt down here so i got it from amazon. Its a phosphate remover for pools. Scary sounding but its ok. The brand you want is called Seaklear I dose into my tank with a filter sock but i probably wouldnt have had to if i had just dosed when i initially cured the rock. Its dangerous when dosing in the tank but like i said outside the tank a good rince will get it off and you wont have issues.
Check with the reef club forum closest to you. Lots of people have it. If you happen to be somewhere close to elmira or corning i have some. Or i sometimes head up to alfred or rochester not sure where in ny you are. You would only need maybe a capfull. TMZ on that read below used 5-10 Ml for a 20 gal cooking bin I used about that ratio. Give or take is fine since its not in the aquarium itself. I can say ive used for my cooking rock and dosing in tank and you wouldnt be able to tell ive ever used the bottle! I made the mistake of curring my rocks with my well water so the rocks absorbed tons of phosphates and it just wont stop leaching. If you can check the phoshpates on the cooking rock not the tank. I notised when i cooked my rock this time with RO/DI i had a .78 phos after a few weeks of cooking so i knew it was being leached from the rock. I dosed the LaCl didnt see much foam like some people have but it did cloud up. Within a few weeks i saw .02 after a rince and has so far stayed constant at .02. i just started to build a 55 with this rock. So .02 i can run Gfo. I could have dosed LaCl again but i got impatient and figured .02 is well into managable levels.
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2049855
This is a good read on dosing LaCl with cooking rock. There is a huge article from gary about in tank dosing but this one is just for cooking with works great for your situation. Might add a week or 2 for the time which sucks because im super impatient out this stuff. But it is well worth pulling all of the phosphates out.
Sorry for the essay haha but I would use bio-spira (ive used both that and stability with same results in both) a few doses while cooking the rock will help get some bacteria. And continue with the doses untill the bottle is gone. Helps incase the bacteria colony is weak when you put the new rock in. If its been up a few years there should be some good amounts in the sand and stuff.
Mr. Demeanor
12/17/2012, 12:54 PM
@Mr. Demeanor, the only problem I have doing that is I have a Toadstool Leather and RBTA on two of the rocks in the tank at the moment. A little apprehensive on trying to remove them. I know it's going to be inevitable but I want to make sure it's going to work 100% before I try and remove them from the rock. What percentage of peroxide did you do for the dip?
I used it straight from the bottle. You could do everything except the rocks you are concerned about and just manually remove every spec you can on those rocks. Once you have 90% of your GHA removed, you CUC will focus there dining on what is left. Kind of like going into the donut shop when all but a few donuts are sold out. :thumbsup:
Just take out a rock, rinse/dunk it for 30 seconds, rinse with clean salt water, and replace. Do one rock and see what you think.
brandon429
12/17/2012, 02:30 PM
it should be added that peroxide does not kill surface bacteria, thats been mis stated all these years. its a poor antibiotic. it kills anaerobes alot better, but catalase positive aerobes not so much. our filter beds are not harmed
neither are the anaerobes because the fluid can't reach that far into the rock, or cut the films that house them very well
its primary use in medical circles is the bubbling action and physical removal of debris from wounds, but as far as kill microbes, you'd be surprised how weak it is. When we tested in the lab all typical surfaces for generalized aerobic bacteria (counter tops, floor etc) you couldn't even tell a difference in the plate counts between treated and untreated surfaces w 3%. Id venture to say distilled water is about as effective lol
labs use quat ammonia as a disinfectant for this very reason. if peroxide worked theyd choose it because its much safer than quat, but its just too weak. another example is the human mouth, after a long gargle with peroxide, the bacterial count remains the same. too many pits and crevices for microbes to hide away from the peroxide...same for live rock too.
trinity1012
12/17/2012, 02:36 PM
@Mr. Demeanor, the only problem I have doing that is I have a Toadstool Leather and RBTA on two of the rocks in the tank at the moment. A little apprehensive on trying to remove them. I know it's going to be inevitable but I want to make sure it's going to work 100% before I try and remove them from the rock. What percentage of peroxide did you do for the dip?
u can remove the RBTA easily.use a small powerhead at the base of the RBTA and it will lift off the rock.it wont like the flow so it will release itself
pkane11384
12/17/2012, 02:40 PM
@tommyz44 That's where the tank currently stands. I'm going to try the peroxide treatment on one of the rocks. Ill be ordering the Seaklear and a bottle of BIO-Spira today so I can start dosing it
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pkane11384
12/17/2012, 02:41 PM
@trinity1012 Ill try that with the RBTA. Any suggestions for the Toadstool? I guess just gently pry it from the rocks?
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brandon429
12/17/2012, 02:44 PM
for the toadstool I think that will stress it. What we've done is just treat around it. remove the rock its on, paint on peroxide on the bad areas, not on the toadstool. let sit for one min, rinse and reinstall. another poster simple inverted the toadstool rock into the tank where the toadstool remained wet, but the target areas were exposed and he let the peroxide sit on those areas emersed while the toadstool stayed wet, pretty slick huh
cleaner shrimp are your risk here not the corals. if you have any cleaner shrimp in the system of the genus lysmata, thats a concern when using peroxide.
tommyz44
12/21/2012, 07:51 AM
@ brandon hmm i didnt know that thanks for the info about bacteria count and H2O2! Well put i always thought and heard the same. But makes total scence when stated that way thanks!
If you have rock that has HA and nothing else the peroxide will help pull it right off. But it only kills the algae and wont eliminate phosphates or nitrates. When i treat it i do a 3 parts hydrogen and 2 parts water. i use this for my frags. If its just rock pure h2o2 will be fine. Eveyone has their own personal mix ratio though.
So to let you know my personal experience
I just purchased some dry rock a little while back and dosed LaCl with big results this time. Put in salt water mixed with rodi, added the rock and let sit for a day so that its fully soaked. In about 20 gal bucket, rock and powerhead, i dosed about a capfull on it just dumping it in. I know dosing slowely is key when dosing into a tank but i dont see the need to drip if its just a curing bin. Instantly the water turned milky white. My last batch i did didnt see affected so it must mean there was low amounts of Phos. This batch was all BRS rock. i let sit for about 10 minutes since the lanthanum disosiates and binds to the phos fairly quickly. Rinced in Rodi dumped the tub refilled with salt water and let soak another day. Dosed again and saw no cloudiness. So i rinsed and let sit in Ro/Di for a day to rid of any Lanthanum dust. Before adding dry rock to a tank this is the best think you can do. It will save you a massive headake down the road.
Crush Coral
12/21/2012, 09:00 AM
I have been fighting this evil plague for over a year. I have a 75g and I will do a 50% h2o chng and then syphon a few more buckets of water out of the tank and save them. I then put H2O2 into a spray bottle and spray the exposed portions of my tank. Let sit for 5 mins and then put back the saved water along with my fresh water. Wala - top 3/4 of my tank is HA free and bottom 1/4 has it. Makes for less harvesting of the HA. I need a fuge if I am going to ever beet it.
pkane11384
12/23/2012, 11:35 PM
I'll be installing a GFO reactor into the tank on Saturday(12/29) or Sunday(12/30) along with a new skimmer. I'm hoping that will help me with my GHA problem a bit. However knowing I have this beautiful clean rock cooking right now is killing me. Every part of me wants to rip the old rock out of the tank and put the new stuff in but I don't want this problem again. I'll try and shoot some pictures of the new rock tomorrow... If I remember
burban94
12/24/2012, 12:12 AM
Have you looked into algae turf scrubbers. 100% natural and many people seem to have good success with them. They are based on the principle that if you force algae to grow where you want it to (on a plastic screen) it will eventually outcompete the algae in your tank. Simple to understand, simple to biuld, simple to use. I actually started one lit by leds a few wks ago and its starting to fill in nicely. Lots of info on RC and over on Algaescrubber.net.
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pkane11384
12/27/2012, 09:22 PM
Finally decided to post a picture of the rock I have cooking
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tommyz44
12/28/2012, 08:10 AM
Looks very similar to my setup. I use the same skimmer if im not mistaken aquatic life 115? Big rocks they looks nice. Being that big it will be good you have had them cooking for so long. Sometimes when cooking you get the surface stuff but a nice long cure time helps pull the nasty stuff from the core. Have you gotten a chance to try out the LaCl?
pkane11384
12/28/2012, 09:49 AM
Not yet. I haven't had time to go out and get some. Maybe today before we get snow tomorrow. Yeah it's an Aquaticlife 115. I only had it in there to break it in and see if it would pull anything.
Eric45
12/28/2012, 09:50 AM
Look, the three things you need to beat gha are low nutrients, lower photoperiods and patience. Run mh's for 4--5 hours per day (max) and maintain Nitrates as less than 2/3 and PO as close to zero as possible. I think gfo is a necessity.
Cut it back as it grows, which it will continue to do, although more slowly. Over three or so months it will be gone. Guaranteed. I've been through it.
tommyz44
12/28/2012, 10:30 AM
Cool thats actualy exactly what i use to cure my rocks. It works well for small scale. I have 2 tanks plumbed into one system so i run it when im nor curing rocks in my smaller 20 gallon tank as well as the normal skimmer in the sump. I find it does a good job for such a small little guy. If you get a chance take a reading of your phosphates on the cooking rock. Rock over time will be depleated of phosphates in a tank. Just as curing can do depending on how much there was before. I just bought some BRS let sit for about a week in rodi salt mix and found my phosphates were up to .2 so i knew those were loaded but i bought some from a guy localy and cured his in a different bin and saw .09 at the very most. So i knew his was almsost rid of phosphates or the die off caused some phos. If you get time check out the levels.
BTW I work in a lab and have access to all kinds of vials. so i could just mail you a small vial(if you have used red sea products they are the exact same size as those) of it if you would like If you dont get out to get any.
whodat23369
12/28/2012, 10:38 AM
cut your light time down. i was having the same issue until i put my lights on a timer of about 8-8.5hrs each day. its been about a month and all my gha is gone. i also have two tangs and 5 mexican turbos snails. also try a sally light foot crab that aided in the removal of my gha.
pkane11384
12/31/2012, 04:40 PM
I only have a BioCube 29 so Tangs won't work. I have 6 turbo snails, 2 Emerald crabs and a Tuxedo Urchin. I'm going to start running a GFO reactor soon but I've also started dosing Brightwell Reef BioFuel which replaces Vodka dosing so hopefully it helps
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pkane11384
02/22/2013, 08:29 AM
Well I haven't posted on this in almost over two months. Been busy with studying for a test at work (damn civil service) and I have no time for the forums. The rock has been in the tote for almost two months now and I think it's time to make the switch. Next Monday i'll be moving everything over. I'll post before and after pictures for everyone also
tommyz44
02/22/2013, 10:55 AM
Good to hear from you! im thinking you will be fine, just keep monitoring levels. Since then i upgraded my tank. I had rock curring for 2 months which were also Lanthanum dosed. Almost no HA on them. But the original rocks i took out and scrubbed have re-grown the HA. Its amazing to see, Ill take a pic and post later as well so you can see the difference between lanthanam dosed and cured rocks vs non dosed rocks.
I also did some just curred rock for 5 months as well with no dosing to see the difference. There is a little bit of HA but nothing compared to the rock that i only cured for a month.
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