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View Full Version : Bonehead mistake? Phosphate spike!!


emilypres
12/19/2012, 06:04 AM
Hi all,
Well i made a bonehead noob mistake 2 days ago. I was setting up my new eheim automatic fish feeder because I am going out of town for about 3 days and wanted the fish to get something in the way of food while i am gone. Like a dummy, instead of testing it out, I set it up, placed it on the tank, forgot I had the food slot halfway open and hit the manual feed button. Needless to say it dumped quit a bit of food pellets in my 90 gallon tank. I was able to scoop up some but the damage was already done. I knew this would prove to be quit costly and was going to be something that would really throw my tank equilibrium out of wax.

I have been testing the following parameters pretty much every day and had no issues up until now (ph, nitrite, nitrate, ammonia, calcium, alkalinity, salinity, temp). I also had ordered a phosphate kit and was waiting for that to arrive. Meanwhile my tank got real cloudy the next day. I have 2 phosban reactors and some carbon i had been waiting to add. I immediately set this up and started pulling from my refugium for the carbon filled phosban reactor. I tested ammonia, nitrate, nitrites and still nothing. The next day, I began to see brown stuff growing on everything, which up until now had not happened, this tank is around 4 months old. Oh and I also do daily water changes (approx. 1 gallon per day, sometimes 2 gal/day) - and these equate to almost 30-40 % each month.

The next day (day 2 after overfeeding) I finally saw some traces of ammonia, nitrates. Testing showed nitrate = 10ppm, nitrite = .25ppm, ammonia = .25 ppm, alkalinity = 7. Water still very cloudy. That night i tested and my ammonia had dropped to .20ppm and my nitrates and nitrite had gone to 0. I thought ok that wasn't so bad (the overfeeding i mean). I thought i was thru the worse.

Day 3 after overfeeding - Woke up and tested as usual; nitrate = 5ppm, nitrite = 0, ammonia = .25ppm, phosphate = .5ppm (this had finally arrived). Salinity remained 1.023 throughout this whole thing. I then decided to add Amquel Plus to help out with removing the phosphates, nitrates, ammonia, etc...

I guess my question is should i just keep doing what i am doing? Does anyone think i need to order some GFO for my other phosban reactor? I feel like I am on the right track, I have some chaeto in my fuge, I have my protein skimmer set up, I am running some carbon next to my skimmer. My tests all seem to be going down with the exception of phosphates, however, i am not really sure what levels they were at. I can say this though they weren't high enough to cause any problems with diatoms (brown stuff on sand?) building up before. I really think I have an assignable cause here and as long as i am patient I feel like the phosphates will go back down.

What do you guys think? Any suggestions.

ajcanale
12/19/2012, 07:11 AM
One overfeeding shouldn't be an issue. If it was consistant, likely. Let the nitrogen cycle run it's course then do a larger WC. Phosphates should eventually drop.

emilypres
12/19/2012, 07:20 AM
Forgot to mention my livestock, 1 powder brown tang, 1 yellow tang, 1 coral beauty angel, 1 ocellaris clown, 1 orange spotted goby, 1 sand sifting star, 1 pencil urchin, 1 very large brittle star (2' length). Does anything sound like any of these should be removed?

emilypres
12/19/2012, 02:13 PM
bump

Heliman
12/19/2012, 02:32 PM
Firstly, you dont say how long your Tank has been in operation. If it is a relative short time (less than say 6 months) then what you have seen is a normal "mini cycle spike" due to the excess food going in. It seems that this mini cycle is now receeding and all should be Ok from here...just keep doing what you have done, it is fine.

Regarding Phosphate.....it may well be your PO4 has been climbing for some time and this may be the result of natural leaching...if your Tank is fairly new.

If it is an old, mature set-up, then this PO4 spike could well be another effect of the "food dump"

Either way, if you have fish only, high PO4 is not as bad as it would be if you had live corals.

If you have natural leaching, when you get to test for PO4 you may well find it stays at the current level or even increases.

If your high PO4 is a one-off event due to the food issue , then it will slowly decrease naturally with water changes...but this may be too slow to prevent nuisance algaes.

By all means, hook up a phosphate removal system (Phosban, or GFO) but go slowly, take the PO4 down at a steady rate because dramatic reductions in PO4 can cause adverse effects on the biological population in your Tank..........same goes for any rapid changes in the water chemistry.....slow but steady is the go :lol2:

If you leave PO4 it as is, it is likely that you will generate unwanted nuisance algaes down the track, so action to remove PO4 is certainly called for.

emilypres
12/19/2012, 04:39 PM
Hey thanks for the reply, my tank has been up and running for around 3 months i think, however, all the rock and sand came from tanks that had been running for 5 years. This is going to be a reef aquarium with some fish, but the only thing i have in there so far with respect to corals is a small pumping xenia, some green mushrooms which seem to be growing and multiplying at a very rapid pace, and a candy cane coral which just showed up one day on a piece of rubble rock in the tank. Never even knew it was there.

So my daily water changes wouldn't be enough to get the phosphate level to come down? I will continue on my current course and if the phosphate level does not drop in a week, I will bite the bullet and purchase some GFO. Already have the pump and reactor so getting the GFO and getting it going shouldn't be a big deal.

Heliman
12/19/2012, 05:01 PM
Water changes will certainly help in controlling PO4, but dont forget that you are adding PO4 all the time from feeding your fish. "Natural" reductions may not be enough to get to the levels of PO4 (about 0.04 ish) that corals will be comfortable at.

If you can get to this level and stay there consistently without using media to remove it...well and good. But I suspect that this wont happen and you will need a little help from GFO or similar.

Best monitor it daily for a while and get to know what the trend is based on your normal daily routine. Once you have established a trend...up or down, you can then take appropriate action. Be careful with adding any media until you know the trend....number chasing is fraught with dangers !!

Your 'shrooms are not the best indicator of water quality....I think these blasted things would grow well and thrive in hot soup !!!!!!!!

I have many SPS and 'shrooms just hate the pristine water that SPS have to have....they dont grow and just sulk.

CRJ
12/19/2012, 05:11 PM
run phosphate remover like phosban or some kind of GFO, i like antiphos.

Water change. 30%+

salinity should be a touch higher, but NBD

cloudyness is most likely a bacteria bloom from the sudden amount of food to eat. it will pass.

emilypres
12/24/2012, 08:25 PM
Well I just got back in town to find the tang (brown powder) and the clownfish dead. I had someone feeding my fish while gone.

My water parameters upon my return are:
Temp- 74
Salinity-1.025
Ph-8.0
Phosphate-.25ppm
Ammonia-.25ppm
Nitrate-10ppm
Nitrite-0
Alkalinity-7
Calcium-420
Magnesium-1110

The fish that died had been showing signs of ick for about a week and a half but were eating fine. Any ideas? Did I maybe have an ammonia spike?

csauer52
12/24/2012, 08:35 PM
The ammonia you're seeing now is more than likely symptomatic of the dead fish. How long were they dead in the tank?

As for the ich, more than likely stress related. I have to be honest, your water temp is likely too cold for a powder tang. They prefer water temps closer to 80*, 74* is much lower than they would be accustomed to in the Indian Ocean. Probably related to the cold temp more than anything else.

Full disclosure, I'm no expert. Just basing my opinion on the powder blue I've had for 2 years. He showed signs of stress at the same temp and when I raised the temp, all was well....

Now my tank never strays from 80 within a half degree either way.

MrTuskfish
12/25/2012, 01:29 PM
Next time, just leave them. no fish is going to be hurt going without food for 3 days. Top-off can be a bigger worry, an ATO eliminates that.

emilypres
12/27/2012, 07:04 AM
It's funny u mention top off because my external pump was sucking air but I don't see how that could have killed them. The spike was due to the over feeding I think. They had probably only been dead about a day. One side note, I added a bag of phoszorb last night and this morning my parameters are ammonia-0, nitrates-0, nitrite-0, phosphate-.20 (these had jumped to 1 ppm last night). The phosphate spike prompted me to purchase the phoszorb bag.