AGA / Aqueon Megaflow Overflow anti-siphon noise fix!

[Dexters Reef]

Hello All,

I had a lot of algae inside my overflow, and cleaned it all out really good the other day. I noticed that since, my tank has been really noisy. I tracked it down to water shooting out the anti-siphon hole on the return side of my megaflow overflow kit. If I cover the hole with my finger, the noise is gone and the system is quiet. This hole is on the inside of the right angle pvc that connects to the lockline. It seems, my system was quiet, because algae had covered this hole on me.

I did some searching and people said to cover it, and drill a new one a little below the water line, but I didnt want to modify the system, and was too lazy to break out the tools. Other people said to reduce return flow, which I tried, but I had to dial my mag7 back about 50% to reduce (and not eliminate) the noise, and I didnt want to have a flow reduction, or put stress on my pump.

Heres what I came up with. Ok follow me here, the picture really helps. On the inside of the overflow there is a small gap, and then an inner wall. Between that inner wall, and the return piping, was about a 1/2" gap for me, and this is where the water was spraying out of the tiny hole and hitting the inner wall and then splashing into the water inside the overflow.

On the overflow box, there is a U channel that the lock line rests in. I repositioned the lockline, so the threaded part of the lockline return, sits in the U channel, instead of the round lockline itself. This tilted the pipe forward a little, so now my antisiphon hole is about 1/8" (maybe less) away from that inner wall (see small red line below elbow). The water comes out and immediatly hits that wall, and doesnt splash or gurgle. FREE FIX!!

If you notice you have a water trickling/flowing noise on your setup that is solved when you cover your anti-siphon hole, and dont have your lockline threads resting in the U channel like the picture below, give it a shot! It took me about 5 minutes since my parts are just press fit into my bulkhead, and it is much quieter now. Best part is it doesnt affect the functionality of the hole if there is a power outage.

Hope this helps some people out there!

[micielo719]

Don't see a pic??

[DavidinGA]

I had that same AGA mega-overflow junk on my 210 and dumped it for my trouble free whisper quiet Herbie setup and never looked back...

[Johnseye]

I had that same AGA mega-overflow junk on my 210 and dumped it for my trouble free whisper quiet Herbie setup and never looked back...

Herbie's nice but you need to either drill for more bulkheads or come up and over with the return when using a tank with only two holes in each overflow.

[DavidinGA]

Herbie's nice but you need to either drill for more bulkheads or come up and over with the return when using a tank with only two holes in each overflow.
No you don't...

I have a 210gal with the original 2 drains and 2 returns and run a herbie. One drain is full siphon and the other is a dry backup then I use the two returns like normal.

[Johnseye]

No you don't...

I have a 210gal with the original 2 drains and 2 returns and run a herbie. One drain is full siphon and the other is a dry backup then I use the two returns like normal.

So you have a return coming up each overflow and in one overflow you have 1 full siphon in one overflow and 1 dry backup in the other? Then do you only have one active drain?

[KingTriton1]

I was actually configuring this particular setup earlier. How would that work exactly? As wouldn't this leave your emergency overflow box stagnant or are you trickling the water down the emergency to create circulation?

[DavidinGA]

So you have a return coming up each overflow and in one overflow you have 1 full siphon in one overflow and 1 dry backup in the other? Then do you only have one active drain?


Correct.



Overflow 1
full siphon
one return


Overflow2
dry backup
one return

[DavidinGA]

I was actually configuring this particular setup earlier. How would that work exactly? As wouldn't this leave your emergency overflow box stagnant or are you trickling the water down the emergency to create circulation?


I get a slight trickle due to the wave action on the top of the water in my "dry" backup.

[tmc1313]

Can you raise your water level enough so the anti-siphon hole is slightly below the water line? Not so low that it would cause your sump to overflow in the event of a power outage, but low enough that you wouldn't hear the return water shooting out the anti siphon hole. If you can't raise the water, can you lower the return somehow, but again not low enough that it would cause your sump to overflow.

[ca1ore]

There are a number of ways you can configure without either boring a new hole or going over the back rim. On my dual overflow 265, one corner is siphon/return, the other is siphon/open channel backup. I see no reason for dual returns, frankly, so by having a siphon in each corner, I avoid any stagnation problems.

[micielo719]

Could you guys draw up a design so I can follow. Here's what I think you're saying

[DavidinGA]

Could you guys draw up a design so I can follow. Here's what I think you're saying
Yes.

[micielo719]

So David, is this he exact way you plumbed your tank? If so, any issues or noise? I'm getting ready to plumb soon and was interested in doing this. kingTriton gets all the credit. Thank you

[DavidinGA]

So David, is this he exact way you plumbed your tank? If so, any issues or noise? I'm getting ready to plumb soon and was interested in doing this. kingTriton gets all the credit. Thank you
Yup that's exactly how I did mine.

Zero issues all around and dead silent.

[ca1ore]

Could you guys draw up a design so I can follow. Here's what I think you're saying

If DavidinGA has done it that way and it works, then I'd think you're good. Personally, there are a couple of things I don't like about it though. That the open channel corner will have very low flow means that some stagnation is possible, but more importantly, you are essentially running the tank with all surface skimming to just one corner - which may or may not be problematic. As I noted earlier, I have not done mine that way. I find dual returns unnecessary so use one corner as a siphon/return and the other as a more traditional herbie, siphon/open channel. That way I get significant flow though both corners and have no issues with surface scum buildup. Clearly you can avoid that in part by directing a power-head towards the surface, but then its not functioning ideally as in-tank flow. Pick your poison I suppose :)

Just my 2 cents.

[DavidinGA]

If DavidinGA has done it that way and it works, then I'd think you're good. Personally, there are a couple of things I don't like about it though. That the open channel corner will have very low flow means that some stagnation is possible, but more importantly, you are essentially running the tank with all surface skimming to just one corner - which may or may not be problematic. As I noted earlier, I have not done mine that way. I find dual returns unnecessary so use one corner as a siphon/return and the other as a more traditional herbie, siphon/open channel. That way I get significant flow though both corners and have no issues with surface scum buildup. Clearly you can avoid that in part by directing a power-head towards the surface, but then its not functioning ideally as in-tank flow. Pick your poison I suppose :)

Just my 2 cents.



My setup works fine, because I have a ton of in-tank flow from wavemakers and my dry box gets slapped by waves non-stop. I have zero surface film and no issues all around.

Having said that, I would suggest ca1ore's setup over mine as it makes more sense. I set mine up when I was fresh into the hobby and if I were to redo it now, I would probably run a drain in each box like he's suggesting. The only caveat I have with ca1ore's suggestion is to make sure your single return line can handle the gph you intend to run through it.

:beer:

[ca1ore]

Yes, that's a good point. My single return is an unobstructed (no loc line) 1" pipe.

[KingTriton1]

I'm getting ready to plumb soon and was interested in doing this. kingTriton gets all the credit. Thank you

Thanks for not using the first drawing :lmao:

If DavidinGA has done it that way and it works, then I'd think you're good. Personally, there are a couple of things I don't like about it though. That the open channel corner will have very low flow means that some stagnation is possible, but more importantly, you are essentially running the tank with all surface skimming to just one corner - which may or may not be problematic. As I noted earlier, I have not done mine that way. I find dual returns unnecessary so use one corner as a siphon/return and the other as a more traditional herbie, siphon/open channel. That way I get significant flow though both corners and have no issues with surface scum buildup. Clearly you can avoid that in part by directing a power-head towards the surface, but then its not functioning ideally as in-tank flow. Pick your poison I suppose :)

Just my 2 cents.

I like both designs and don't think you'll run into any issues with either setup in terms of stagnantion. That said I like ca1ore's design the most as no trickling is involved or needed.

[micielo719]

Ok.. I am running an Eheim 1262 so if I run one overflow w/return & siphon and the other w/siphon & emergency Do you think it would be okay for 900gpg? I am guessing that I will be using the 3/4" side for the siphon and the 1" for the return? And on the opposite overflow I would be using the 3/4" for the siphon and the 1" for the emergency does that sound correct?

[micielo719]

Thanks again to KingTriton for putting up with my thousand back-and-forth emails and all his time. Thanks again

[micielo719]

And when you mentioned open channel? Is that just like the emergency? I thought that would also involve trickling?

[ca1ore]

And when you mentioned open channel? Is that just like the emergency? I thought that would also involve trickling?

Yes, sorry, I tend to use the terms 'open channel' and 'emergency' interchangeably, even though they aren't strictly so.

[micielo719]

Doesn't that mean that the water will actually be trickling down the emergency tube? What is the placement of the actual emergency tube? slightly below the waterline to allow just enough trickle?

[ca1ore]

Doesn't that mean that the water will actually be trickling down the emergency tube? What is the placement of the actual emergency tube? slightly below the waterline to allow just enough trickle?

That's a topic of debate. I have never worried all that much about keeping the emergency dry (though others will demur) so, yes, I simply position the top of the emergency an inch or so below the bottom of the overflow teeth and then 'tune' the siphon so that the water is just trickling into the emergency. I then adjust the siphon in the other overflow so that flow between the two siphons is about equal. Requires a bit of back and forth, but once they are set, it's pretty stable. BTW, I always put screens on the tops of my drains - requires a bit of periodic maintenance, but prevents a large occlusion.

[DavidinGA]

Ok.. I am running an Eheim 1262 so if I run one overflow w/return & siphon and the other w/siphon & emergency Do you think it would be okay for 900gpg? I am guessing that I will be using the 3/4" side for the siphon and the 1" for the return? And on the opposite overflow I would be using the 3/4" for the siphon and the 1" for the emergency does that sound correct?


That pump is probably in reality only going to do about 600-700gph after head loss so you can pretty well setup your drains/dry/returns anyway you want and not have a single problem.

[DavidinGA]

One last piece of advice....

USE A GATE VALVE and NOT a ball valve on the drains.

[KingTriton1]

That's a topic of debate. I have never worried all that much about keeping the emergency dry (though others will demur) so, yes, I simply position the top of the emergency an inch or so below the bottom of the overflow teeth and then 'tune' the siphon so that the water is just trickling into the emergency. I then adjust the siphon in the other overflow so that flow between the two siphons is about equal. Requires a bit of back and forth, but once they are set, it's pretty stable. BTW, I always put screens on the tops of my drains - requires a bit of periodic maintenance, but prevents a large occlusion.

What would be your reasoning for running the water down the emergency exactly? The only benefit I see is maybe more water to surface contact. Thoughts?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2405245

[micielo719]

Ok gotcha. Makes sense. Now a last question. For now..LOL do you run both siphons back into the skimmer section? What about the emergency ? Where do you place it in the sump? My sump from left to right will be skimmer/reactors/return like the drawing above. Thank you

[micielo719]

Got it no ball valves at all. Strictly 2 gate valves 1 on each of the siphons only. Emergency is strictly tubing going into sump and return is direct from pump no valve

[DavidinGA]

Got it no ball valves at all. Strictly 2 gate valves 1 on each of the siphons only. Emergency is strictly tubing going into sump and return is direct from pump no valve
I would recommend running the two drains into a single line right before the sump and use ONE gate valve. Using two gate valves is just a setup for frustration and their is really no good reason to use two.

[KingTriton1]

Wouldn't that create noise? Ca1ore hows yours set up? Any pics?

[micielo719]

Yes pics please.. I also thought noise on just one valve?

[KingTriton1]

Noise and irregular drainage? Enlighten me David :hmm4:

[DavidinGA]

Noise and irregular drainage? Enlighten me David :hmm4:


Why do you think it would create noise?

The two drains will simply merge into one line and one gate valve at the bottom before draining into the sump and having one gate valve will just make your life easier. The two drains will come to an equilibrium and be balanced by the gate valve controlling the flow.

If you were to run TWO gate valves I would think that would be very tedious, frustrating and harder to dial in an even/equal drain between them. I would say using two gate valves would make for an environment that is MORE likely to create noise (one drain pulling more than the other for example).

I have one single gate valve on my herbie setup and it can be annoying to dial in just right sometimes. I can't imagine having/wanting to have to dial in two of them and make them equal out and work in harmony lol.

[KingTriton1]

Why do you think it would create noise?

The two drains will simply merge into one line and one gate valve at the bottom before draining into the sump and having one gate valve will just make your life easier. The two drains will come to an equilibrium and be balanced by the gate valve controlling the flow.

If you were to run TWO gate valves I would think that would be very tedious, frustrating and harder to dial in an even/equal drain between them. I would say using two gate valves would make for an environment that is MORE likely to create noise (one drain pulling more than the other for example).

I have one single gate valve on my herbie setup and it can be annoying to dial in just right sometimes. I can't imagine having/wanting to have to dial in two of them and make them equal out and work in harmony lol.

Ha yea tell me about it. Id probably just set one gate valve and fine tune that water level with the other. That said merging the two makes since now that I think about it. Thanks for the input on that one!

[DavidinGA]

Ha yea tell me about it. Id probably just set one gate valve and fine tune that water level with the other. That said merging the two makes since now that I think about it. Thanks for the input on that one!


Yeah, running two of these gate valves and doubling the frustration is a bad idea :spin1:



To the OP here is 70+ pages on the Herbie you can browse through if your bored :wavehand:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344892&highlight=herbie+system

[KingTriton1]

Final conclusion 2 bad 1 good. Thanks David and a big thanks to Dexters Reef for letting us wreck this place :uzi:

[Johnseye]

If DavidinGA has done it that way and it works, then I'd think you're good. Personally, there are a couple of things I don't like about it though. That the open channel corner will have very low flow means that some stagnation is possible, but more importantly, you are essentially running the tank with all surface skimming to just one corner - which may or may not be problematic. As I noted earlier, I have not done mine that way. I find dual returns unnecessary so use one corner as a siphon/return and the other as a more traditional herbie, siphon/open channel. That way I get significant flow though both corners and have no issues with surface scum buildup. Clearly you can avoid that in part by directing a power-head towards the surface, but then its not functioning ideally as in-tank flow. Pick your poison I suppose :)

Just my 2 cents.

To be clear, your return water only comes out from one hole of one overflow. The other 3 are intake with 1 of those 3 as the emergency?

[ca1ore]

Correct, one return, three drains (2 siphons, 1 open channel)

[ca1ore]

What would be your reasoning for running the water down the emergency exactly? The only benefit I see is maybe more water to surface contact.

There's no functional benefit, and if I can dial the siphons in so that there is no trickle, then I do. I'm just not OCD about a small trickle because I see no practical downside to it.

[KingTriton1]

There's no functional benefit, and if I can dial the siphons in so that there is no trickle, then I do. I'm just not OCD about a small trickle because I see no practical downside to it.

Gotcha, same here.

[ca1ore]

Ca1ore hows yours set up? Any pics?

Difficult to take pictures because overflows are enclosed, and mechanics are in a basement sump room. Basically one overflow has a siphon that runs down through a dedicated gate valve and then into my algae scrubber. Return in that same overflow is a 'home run' straight up from the pump with no obstructions like loc-line or unnecessary elbows to maximize pump output. The second overflow is then setup as a traditional herbie. Siphon goes though a (second) dedicated gate valve into the sump; emergency is a durso-topped standard open channel, also into the sump. All drains have screens.

[Johnseye]

Correct, one return, three drains (2 siphons, 1 open channel)

Do you get a lot of flow out of that single return pipe? Currently my return pump is feeding 2 pipes and flow is moderate.

Also, if you aren't using lockline are you using pvc and if so did you have to widen the overflow cutout to accommodate? Picture of the top of your overflow would be great if possible.

[KingTriton1]

Difficult to take pictures because overflows are enclosed, and mechanics are in a basement sump room. Basically one overflow has a siphon that runs down through a dedicated gate valve and then into my algae scrubber. Return in that same overflow is a 'home run' straight up from the pump with no obstructions like loc-line or unnecessary elbows to maximize pump output. The second overflow is then setup as a traditional herbie. Siphon goes though a (second) dedicated gate valve into the sump; emergency is a durso-topped standard open channel, also into the sump. All drains have screens.

Nah.... I think its a pretty simple setup :spin2:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x363/Gtturner1988/IMG_0388_zpspbznvnpm.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/Gtturner1988/media/IMG_0388_zpspbznvnpm.jpg.html)

[Johnseye]

Is a valve necessary on the emergency drain? I plan on a gate valve for each siphon. My sump only has 2 inlets into socks for drains so my setup will be a little kluge. I was going to just have the E-drain hanging down into the sump.

[micielo719]

No, you don't valve the Emergency drain.

[Johnseye]

With 1 in. bulkheads do you go 1.5 in. both inside the overflow and to the sump/ from return with 1 to 1.5 adaptors? Or just 1.5 for the siphons in the overflow?

[ca1ore]

Do you get a lot of flow out of that single return pipe? Currently my return pump is feeding 2 pipes and flow is moderate.

Also, if you aren't using lockline are you using pvc and if so did you have to widen the overflow cutout to accommodate? Picture of the top of your overflow would be great if possible.

Sorry for the tardy response. My single return is a simple 1" PVC run up from the pump, through only a pair of elbows. No loc-line to muck things up. Overflow cutout already handles 1" PVC, so no mod required.