Fish Room = great on paper, not in real life

[SVTour]

Disasters in Reefkeeping 101.

I've been slowly running into a problem with my fish room. When I designed this from scratch...everything looked great in theory. Now that it's been in operation for 7 years, it's really been a PITA.

My few issues are this...

1) It's a converted porch...so temperature control has been difficult. I need to constantly run a heater in the winter, and AC in the summer.

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//Porch1.JPG

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//Porch2.JPG

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//Porch3.JPG

2) There's no water hook up in the room (no sink, no drain). I did run an RODI outlet into the room from the kitchen...so I can at least get water to the room for water changes.

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//water.JPG

3) The need for electricity is high. I'm running 13 direct connections to outlets, 5 of which are power strips of some sort...running 25 different items.

• Main pump
• UPS
o MaxJet 1200
• Skimmer
• Wavemaker outlet (3 solid, 3 wavemaker)
o 500W water heater - solid
o 150W water heater - solid
o MaxJet 1200 for nitrate reactor - solid
• Power Strip #1
o CO2 Relay
o Power for controller
o Kalk Reactor timer
o MaxJet 600
• Power Strip #2
o Heater for the room
o UV light
o Mag 7 for Closed Loop through UV
o Pump for saltwater mix
• Moon Light (always on)
• Overflow relay
• Overflow power
o Rio 1700
• Digital Aquatics power strip #1
o Powers controller
o LED strip 1
o LED strip 2
o LED strip 3
o 1 X 250W MH lights
• Digital Aquatics power strip #2 (non operational)
• Digital Aquatics power strip #3
o LED strip 4
o Fuge LED light
o 2 X 250W MH lights
• Netgear wireless ethernet drop


When I put this in...I ran 1 14 gauge line (for the AC) and 2 12 gauge 30A lines to run the tank. The issue is - I quickly ran out of outlets and started the use of power strips.

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//Original%20Electric.JPG

More compelling, I placed all the outlets close to the sump (for ease of getting all the powered items close to the tank. Issue is that they've all corroded over time.

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//Electric1.JPG

Some outlets...I won't even use now.
http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//Electric2.JPG

I need to replace all the outlets - getting them out of the way of the sump. I purchased 2 American DJ switch boxes...but I'll need to locate them somewhere...question is...where?

Here's the hardware that needs wired up...
http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//hardware.JPG

And the Digital Aquatics that would need wired in as well...
http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//DA setup.JPG

Here's what I have to work with...I can move the outlets, I can move the sump (or even both). How else can I configure this room to make things better for the long haul? Just looking to see if anyone has any good ideas (or have been through this kind of mess). I'd actually like to add an external fuge to this (15 gallons in size).

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//fish room.JPG

[Jonviviano]

Call a qualified electrician. You are running a huge risk of death by electrocution or fire from that many outlets near water. You should never have corrosion like that. Any outlet near a body of water is required to have a GFCI.

[BriggsReef]

Think of it as setting up your first tank.. nothing ever goes completely to plan on the first go.

First off i think 12g wire is rated for a 20amp circuit. So if your really running them off a 30amp the wires might be running hot.

Also if you have the room, try the weather proof bubble covers that are used on outside GFI's. they cover the plug and only leave an opening for the wires to get in.

You could also change all your boxes out into 2 gang deep boxes and make each of those single plugs into doubles. A weatherproof bubble cover would still apply.

It would also be pretty easy to run some wires out of those switch boxes into a nice labeled switch panel that is easily accessible and away from salt creep. Then you can use those spots for more plugs.

If the location of the plugs themselves are good then no need to move them. Just make them more safe and make the switches more accessible.

[Drae]

I bet if you overhaul your fish room you'd get it perfect ( for your needs) this time.

[BigAl2007]

I don't think going to the American DJ boxes will help a whole lot. I think the idea of "covered" outlets like mentioned above is probably the best way to go.

How "ventilated" is the tank room? Maybe install some type of ventilation to the outside on a humidistat or something.

I'll be doing an "Equipment Room" in my next home and I appreciate you sharing your experience with the rest of us. Maybe we'll all learn from each other along the way.

[DopeCantWin]

I feel like you have way too much going on. I'm setting up a 210, my max will be 452 watts, but normal running will take around 300.

[DopeCantWin]

Do you really need both a Kalk Reactor and a Calcium Reactor? Just using outside air line into your skimmer air intake should take care of any pH problems caused by the Calcium Reactor.

[Jeff000]

Any outlet near a body of water is required to have a GFCI.

No. Only 3' from a sink, shower, tub. And only if accessible. A fish tank is like a glass of water in the eyes of the code. "Easy" to move and not something you need to do anything permanent for.


OP, put some damn cover plates on those boxes and your issues would be all but solved with corrosion.
12g wire is rated for 20 amps. You have lots of power in the room.

Add more receptacles instead of the power bars. Just need more boxes. And move your switches to a central location that is easy to get to and out of the way. Adding an exhaust fan would probably be a good idea too.

Move the boxes that are below the top of the sump higher, and figure out why you are getting so much salt creep.

[SVTour]

Think of it as setting up your first tank.. nothing ever goes completely to plan on the first go.

First off i think 12g wire is rated for a 20amp circuit. So if your really running them off a 30amp the wires might be running hot.

Also if you have the room, try the weather proof bubble covers that are used on outside GFI's. they cover the plug and only leave an opening for the wires to get in.

You could also change all your boxes out into 2 gang deep boxes and make each of those single plugs into doubles. A weatherproof bubble cover would still apply.

It would also be pretty easy to run some wires out of those switch boxes into a nice labeled switch panel that is easily accessible and away from salt creep. Then you can use those spots for more plugs.

If the location of the plugs themselves are good then no need to move them. Just make them more safe and make the switches more accessible.

No. Only 3' from a sink, shower, tub. And only if accessible. A fish tank is like a glass of water in the eyes of the code. "Easy" to move and not something you need to do anything permanent for.


OP, put some damn cover plates on those boxes and your issues would be all but solved with corrosion.
12g wire is rated for 20 amps. You have lots of power in the room.

Add more receptacles instead of the power bars. Just need more boxes. And move your switches to a central location that is easy to get to and out of the way. Adding an exhaust fan would probably be a good idea too.

Move the boxes that are below the top of the sump higher, and figure out why you are getting so much salt creep.

So I looked on the box in the basement...I don't know what the heck I'm writing...

I'm running 12 Gauge to the AC, 2-10 gauge lines from the box to the original breakout of all these plugs. To boot, the fuses are 20A, not 30A as I listed above. I really did think that I had 30's in here though?

http://users.zoominternet.net/~kncj//fuse.jpg

I think I'm going to move the outlets away from the sump all together...probably on either side. I'll look into the covers as suggested.

I think all the salt creep is from the splashing...I have two down pipes from the display tank...and the skimmer down there.

[SVTour]

Do you really need both a Kalk Reactor and a Calcium Reactor? Just using outside air line into your skimmer air intake should take care of any pH problems caused by the Calcium Reactor.

No...probably not at this point. I bought the Kalk first...and it couldn't keep up with what I had so I bought the calcium reactor.

What do you mean by outside air for the skimmer? I've never heard of this...

[DopeCantWin]

No...probably not at this point. I bought the Kalk first...and it couldn't keep up with what I had so I bought the calcium reactor.

What do you mean by outside air for the skimmer? I've never heard of this...

Your Skimmer likely has an air intake on it. Instead of having that air getting sucked in from the room, take a tube and lead it to take air in from outside. This got my pH to go up by .3. The idea is that by piping in more oxygen, you're offsetting the CO2 that's being pumped into the tank via the Calcium Reactor. I assumed you got the Kalk to raise the pH, my mistake.

[Steve175]

I run Kalk and Ca reactors: pH is better balanced with both but more importantly, I have less Alk swings (acro heavy) if one goes off line (dosing pump for kalk fails, run out of CO2, etc).

I also think it is great that you posted you troubles after 7 years for us to learn from.

I am loving my filtration room after 3. I insulated it with Green wallboard which was sealed with epoxy and installed an HVAC to maintain a year round constant temp. I have 2 20 watt vent fans running off a humidistat (apex) which pulls air from house to room and from room to outset when dictated by humidity. I have 6 30amp circuits each running an apex module - all are well away from the sump and have GFI outlets (I have tripped every one of them multiple times doing stupid things over the years). I use my sink regularly. In fact, my skimmer cup rinses into it automatically twice daily.

Spend some time insulating, ventilating, wiring, and adding a sink to your room: it will become your favorite room in the house.

[JPMagyar]

I feel like you have way too much going on. I'm setting up a 210, my max will be 452 watts, but normal running will take around 300.

That all depends on the type of tank you want. You can minimize power, but that will come at a cost. Super Storm Sandy has given me "Laser Focus" on power, and the best I can do is about 2000 watts, but I'm an SPS addict. Please forgive me if I play "Doubting Thomas" but I don't think you can keep a 210 gallon tank healthy and interesting for 452 watts. I could be wrong, and if I am I ask your forgiveness but do you have any pictures of a tank running on 452 watts?

Here's mine on 3000 watts . . .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hxik9hVNB2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



For the OP I say I had the same problem until I installed a 600 cuft/min kitchen fan to vent my fish room, but even then corrosion happens and costs money to fix. Sadly, big saltwater aquariums are not cheap. Happily small tanks can be equally beautiful with none of the crazy issues involved with large tanks.

[atreis]

That corrosion on the outlets is downright scary. Salt has a way of migrating deeper into electronics...

0. Rewire. Now. Today.

In terms of power usage:
1. Add insulation to the fish room. You mention a problem heating it (winter) and cooling it (summer), which tells me the room is very inadequately insulated. Space heating and cooling is the largest source of residential energy consumption.

1a. Add active venting with energy recovery (for winter use) to the design of the room. You'll need to remove moisture somehow, and venting consumes far less energy than running a powerful dehumidifier. (Also, it's comparable in price to a dehumidifier.)

1b. Don't forget the windows when upgrading the insulation in the room. From the pictures they appear to be single-pane.

1c. A properly insulated fish room of that size likely would require very minimal heating. The tank water should (mostly) keep it heated. As part of the insulation upgrade add powered vents that can be covered in insulation in the winter, and operated during the summer, and don't AC the room at all.
1ci. A cheap way to do this: Open two windows and put a box fan in one of them. :)

Fixing this insulation issue will also result in less use of your tank heaters, saving you more.

2. If you continue to run AC, consider a split chiller (outside compressor), so that the chiller heat isn't added into that small room. Effectively during the summer, you remove tank heat using a chiller and add it to the heat of the fish room, then you use a window AC unit to remove that heat AGAIN and put it outside. The second biggest consumer of electricity in residential households is compressor-driven cooling (usually the refrigerator, but chillers operate the same way). If you don't AC the room and just actively vent it during the summer this change isn't needed.

3. You don't mention the turnover between tank and sump, or what type of pump is being used for that. From the pictures it appears to be a sizable one. For a 220, you only need ~500-660 gph turnover, which can be accomplished with a fairly small, efficient, pump. (Keep in mind, unlike lighting and heaters, the pump runs 24x7.)

4. Replace your MH with LED. This saves twice during the winter and three times during the summer with your current setup: During the winter, heating the house via other means than resistive heating (e.g. gas furnace, heat pump) is cheaper. During the summer, the chiller will run less, and so would the window AC. With the other efficiency improvements it still saves twice year round.

Funds being limited, I would prioritize as follows:
0. Rewire (today! Really!)
1. Active venting instead of AC (this costs almost nothing)
2. Replace windows with multiple glazing
3. Insulation and heat-recovery ventilator
4. LEDs
5. Replace main pump

6. Plumbing upgrades. You've lived with it this long... :)

[JaYbIrD1969]

That all depends on the type of tank you want. You can minimize power, but that will come at a cost. Super Storm Sandy has given me "Laser Focus" on power, and the best I can do is about 2000 watts, but I'm an SPS addict. Please forgive me if I play "Doubting Thomas" but I don't think you can keep a 210 gallon tank healthy and interesting for 452 watts. I could be wrong, and if I am I ask your forgiveness but do you have any pictures of a tank running on 452 watts?

Here's mine on 3000 watts . . .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hxik9hVNB2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



For the OP I say I had the same problem until I installed a 600 cuft/min kitchen fan to vent my fish room, but even then corrosion happens and costs money to fix. Sadly, big saltwater aquariums are not cheap. Happily small tanks can be equally beautiful with none of the crazy issues involved with large tanks.

OMG! I forgot what I was gonna say!

[DopeCantWin]

That all depends on the type of tank you want. You can minimize power, but that will come at a cost. Super Storm Sandy has given me "Laser Focus" on power, and the best I can do is about 2000 watts, but I'm an SPS addict. Please forgive me if I play "Doubting Thomas" but I don't think you can keep a 210 gallon tank healthy and interesting for 452 watts. I could be wrong, and if I am I ask your forgiveness but do you have any pictures of a tank running on 452 watts?

Here's mine on 3000 watts . . .

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hxik9hVNB2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

For the OP I say I had the same problem until I installed a 600 cuft/min kitchen fan to vent my fish room, but even then corrosion happens and costs money to fix. Sadly, big saltwater aquariums are not cheap. Happily small tanks can be equally beautiful with none of the crazy issues involved with large tanks.

Your tank is sick, and I totally understand the Doubting Thomas. I also have my doubts my tank will be as nice as yours. I can show some pictures of my 90 running basically in the same setup. Nowhere near as nice as yours, but the SPS is growing in. There is a lot I'm not happy with, but those items will be eliminatied in the new system. I'll list off the items I'll have. It will be up and running hopefully within a month, with most of my SPS in the tank in 2 months.

AI Sols x 6 running at roughly 60% max 252 Watts. Most of the time the last one will be off, it is for a quarantine.
Max Flo 2900 gph pump x 1 112 Watts likely running around 90 since the back pressure isn't that bad
MP60 x 1 60 Watts max likely running at 40. This might get replaced with 2 Tunzes, not sure yet.
Protein Skimmer to be named later 60 Watts. Likely lower, going to try for high end pump. Hoping for something like a SWC 230 or bigger.

I didn't include small items like the controller and Kalk reactor stuff. At max it is around 464. There will be a large Chaeto sump, powered by LED.

We're off topic, so PM is probably best for any more info, I might still do a build thread and would love input.