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MarlinHooker
12/29/2012, 08:07 AM
The directions say to use 1/4 teaspoon max per gallon which equates to about 5 grams on my gourmet kitchen analog scale. The container has 800 grams in it which translates to about 160 gals of supplement. At $21/container that works out to about 13 cents/gal.

A LFS sells CaCl at $3.50/lb which requires 2.5 cups/gal or 1.25 lbs or $4.38/gal.

Obviously I should be using the Kent Marine stuff assuming it works as advertised ...

Am I missing something here or just been paying a lot for CaCl ...

disc1
12/29/2012, 10:09 AM
Yes you are missing something. With calcium chloride it is 2.5 cups per gallon of rodi water to make up a supplement that you will use milliliters per day of.

You're comparing apples and oranges. You've got he tank dosing for the turbo calcium and the two part recipe for the bulk calcium chloride and thinking that is a tank dosage. It isn't. You should read the directions a little more carefully. If you add 2.5 cups per gallon in your tank it would be very bad.

Kent turbo calcium IS anhydrous calcium chloride pellets and nothing else. You can beat that price all day long. Compare by weight but be careful, the other form dihydrate vs anhydrous has less calcium by weight and should cost much much less by weight since a goodly portion of that weight is water.

DHyslop
12/29/2012, 10:21 AM
The LFS is basically selling the powder to mix a gallon of calcium solution for under $5.

Kent is selling you a pint of the same calcium solution for $20, with added smoke and mirrors.

The LFS that sells the CaCl is your new best friend. Many shops are trying to cling to the revenue that the Kent et al products make and they're going under as serious hobbyists have learned that they've been sold stuff at 100x markup for the last decade when they could make it themselves for pennies.

MarlinHooker
12/29/2012, 11:52 AM
I'm obviously still confused so let me see if I can break this down into manageable parts ...

This is what I do understand:

1. My goal is to make 1 gal of liquid Ca supplement to dose my tank to replenish Ca used up by my critters. I'm still in the process of determining how much per day to dose for my tank but I know it's around 100 ml every other day

2. The LFS sells a granular substance they just call CaCl which requires 2 1/2 cups to make 1 gal at a cost of $3.50/lb or per 2 cups.

3. You have said this is dihydrate Ca.

4. Kent Turbo Ca says to use 1/4 teaspoon of their product to make 1 gal of liquid which they claim is for Ca supplement. The label just says "Calcium Chloride"

5. You have said this is anhydrous Ca Cl

Here's what I don't understand:

1. What's the difference between anhydrous & dihydrate CaCl?

2. From your post it appears that you are saying the entire container (800 grams) of the Kent stuff is equivalent to the 2 1/2 cups of the dihydrate CaCl from the LFS?

If true, obviously the LFS is a great deal ...

disc1
12/29/2012, 02:07 PM
I'm obviously still confused so let me see if I can break this down into manageable parts ...

This is what I do understand:

1. My goal is to make 1 gal of liquid Ca supplement to dose my tank to replenish Ca used up by my critters. I'm still in the process of determining how much per day to dose for my tank but I know it's around 100 ml every other day

And here's the recipe:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

2. The LFS sells a granular substance they just call CaCl which requires 2 1/2 cups to make 1 gal at a cost of $3.50/lb or per 2 cups.

OK

3. You have said this is dihydrate Ca.

I most certainly have not. I have never been to said LFS and I won't be going any time soon. So you will have to tell me whether it is anhydrous or dihydrate.

4. Kent Turbo Ca says to use 1/4 teaspoon of their product to make 1 gal of liquid which they claim is for Ca supplement. The label just says "Calcium Chloride"

The label says anhydrous last I checked. Even if they have changed the label, I know that the Kent product is anhydrous. But the 1/4 teaspoon is for adding directly to the tank for some given rise in calcium. It should say. If it doesn't we can figure it out.

5. You have said this is anhydrous CaCl

Actually, I said it is anhydrous CaCl2. But OK.

Here's what I don't understand:

1. What's the difference between anhydrous & dihydrate CaCl?

The dihydrate contains 2 molecules of water for every molecule of CaCl2 bonded into the crystal.

When using the anhydrous form to make two -part you use about 20% less. So it would be more like 2 cups for the anhydrous stuff.

2. From your post it appears that you are saying the entire container (800 grams) of the Kent stuff is equivalent to the 2 1/2 cups of the dihydrate CaCl from the LFS?

2.5 cups of CaCl2 is right at 500g. But if you are using Randy's recipe you'd be using a little less. Maybe you'd get close to 2 gallons out of that.

If true, obviously the LFS is a great deal ...

It can be beat, but it is a decent deal.

DHyslop
12/29/2012, 03:03 PM
MarlinHooker, forget about the words "anhydrous" and "dihydrous" and the 2 and all the chemistry stuff. Both products are dry calcium. The $5 stuff is meant to be mixed with a gallon of water to create a high concentration solution of calcium. You can keep the Ca level in your tank up by adding a small amount of that solution every day. This as part of a well-known, inexpensive and proven method called two-part dosing.

The Kent stuff is a slightly different dry calcium. It costs a bunch more, but there's really not a bunch more calcium in it. It costs more for the same reason a Kent brand RO membrane costs more than a Dow membrane that's of better quality.

disc1
12/29/2012, 03:15 PM
MarlinHooker, forget about the words "anhydrous" and "dihydrous" and the 2 and all the chemistry stuff. Both products are dry calcium.

Whether or not the calcium chloride you are using has is hydrated or not makes a significant difference in the amount of calcium that is there by weight. If you make two solutions with the same weight of each then the one you made with the anhydrous product will have significantly more calcium in it and will most definitely affect the dosage.

Anhydrous CaCl2 is 36% calcium by weight.

Calcium chloride dihydrate is about 27% calcium by weight.

It makes a difference.

Yes both are dry calcium products. The hydrate doesn't mean it is wet. It means that there are water molecules bound in the crystals.


You can certainly use the Kent product to make up two part. It is a waste of money but you can certainly do it. You just have to reduce the amount of dry product you are mixing. by about 20%

DHyslop
12/29/2012, 06:39 PM
Whether or not the calcium chloride you are using has is hydrated or not makes a significant difference in the amount of calcium that is there by weight. If you make two solutions with the same weight of each then the one you made with the anhydrous product will have significantly more calcium in it and will most definitely affect the dosage.

Anhydrous CaCl2 is 36% calcium by weight.

Calcium chloride dihydrate is about 27% calcium by weight.

It makes a difference.



Yeah, it makes a difference, but not a 4x difference to justify the price. The OP's original question was just why the dramatic difference in cost. He didn't ask how many grams of it he needs to add to match 25 mL of Randy's recipe alk... Maybe I understated the difference in the products, but I think that jumping into the technical details in such a way confused him.

disc1
12/29/2012, 07:11 PM
I was talking about what the LFS is selling. Definitely buy that but find out if it is anhydrous or not. Probably not but who knows.

MarlinHooker
12/30/2012, 07:33 PM
Thx everyone for your explanations ... The main confusion on my part was the assumption that the Kent Turbo Ca was to be used like the CaCl2 dry crystals from the LFS ... That is to mix it to make 1 gal of liquid supplement. The label clearly states to mix 1/4 teaspoon with 1 gal of RO/DI water and use as a continuous drip ...

I will check with my LFS to see if their product is dehydrate, if so I assume I can use the different weights you mentioned ( 36% vice 27%) to figure out how much of the Kent stuff to mix with 1 gal of water to make the same concentration of Ca supplement that my LFS CaCl2 creates, right? Since I have the Kent stuff I might as well use it if I can ...

john rochon
12/31/2012, 07:11 AM
why don't you just use Kalkwiser for your tank. Seeing as its a mixed reef you should be able to manage both ALK & CA requirments.

MarlinHooker
12/31/2012, 08:07 AM
I'm actually in the process of setting up my Georeef Ca Rx which I bought when I was setting up my tank ... all this has convinced me to just go ahead and get it up & running so this is really (hopefully) just a temporary issue while I get the reactor dialed in ...