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View Full Version : Cyano.. I'm lost for words with its Destruction...


thebkramer
12/29/2012, 06:15 PM
I've been dealing with cyano for well over a year or so now. Off and on.. here and there.. but nothing to this extent!!!! I've tested my water.. I've done water changes.. I've done lights out.. but these past few months.. its taken over my life!!
For years I've used tap.. I KNOW.. BAD CHOICE! I am now lugging water to my house from my lfs. I want a RO/DI unit.. but have NO more space left in this home of mine!! I'm hoping with me having to move in the spring, I will find a place big enough for my tank & all its needs!!!
I had bulbs that were waaaay too old!! I know this was a part of my issue.. but they are now new! Brand new! on top of that.. I am waiting on ecoxotic Panorama LEDS!! very exciting!!
so.. 2 problems that have a hand in my cyano plague taken care of!
then.. there is the nitrates!! which hadn't been an issue (atleast not like now) until 3 months ago. They were at 160ppm which seemed like it was overnight (I know, not possible) but I've been able to get them to hover between 60-80ppm. I'm sure its higher.. just not reading.
My phosphates are always reading 0.. which I don't get at all. These are all being done with Salifert test btw. I've even compared my readings with my lfs.
last week my salinity somehow jumped to 1.032!! insane!! but I slowly brought it back to 1.026
my calcium had also spiked to 520.. but that leveled out with the swap of fresh water. (460)
rest of readings.. Ammonia 0 Trites 0 pH 7.8 kH 9
I don't test for Mag.
what am I forgetting?????
oh.. my filters have been scrubbed and soaked and refreshed with new foam and carbon. my skimmer was not working for about 6mos.. then someone here THANKFULLY helped me with the most simple of fixes!!! she is now up and running and the skimmate is PURE nastiness!!!!
I just bought a brand new 1400gph Koralia to replace a 750 that stopped working.. so that makes 2 now of those and a small nano powerhead also in the tank.
I haven't touch my sandbed in YEARS.. and have left most of the maintenance up to my DWG , nassarius and a conch and whatever other little guys I have in there. the sandbed has looked beautiful through all this.. until my goby died 2 weeks ago :sad1: I'm heartbroken to say the least!!!
I have been going dark for 3 days once a month.. but this last time my PTA decided to start moving around.. so it was cut a day short. I did a 25% water change next day. (last week) I did another 20% on the 26th and plan to do another 20% tomorrow.
the cyano disappeared about 60% and was back 1000% worse with a vengeance within 3 days!!
I really thought I could get ahead of this horridness.. but its kicking my arse to say the least!! I'm feeling defeated, embarrassed, mortified, neglectful.. and I'm at a loss with if my plan is really the best!??!
That is where my fellow friends come in! Trust me when I tell ya.. this was really hard for me to post!! Who wants to show their tank like this, or admit something you're doing is wrong!!! *sigh*
I really appreciate any and all help!!! I really want to turn this around!! I LOVE my tank!!! they are my other babies & its killing me like you would never believe to wake up and see it in this state!!!! :sad1:

If I left anything out.. please let me know!


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thebkramer
12/29/2012, 06:16 PM
http://i47.*******.com/2psrrie.jpg
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Skimmate after 3 days:
http://i46.*******.com/16m1weh.jpg

heathlindner25
12/29/2012, 06:19 PM
you need a lot more flow in that tank

Sharkey18
12/29/2012, 06:24 PM
You've answered your own question. You cannot run a successful reef tank with old bulbs, tap water, no skimmer, no water movement and nitrates at 80 ppm. You can't seriously be wondering why you have cyano?

Invest in proper equipment and get your water quality in shape. That's it.

Heliman
12/29/2012, 06:27 PM
Do you know what those "Pagoda" like structures in your Tank are made of ? They could be leaching phosphate that is being used by the cyano...hence you dont get a reading when you test the water.

Seems to me like flow and phosphates are a good place to start. I think you must get going with GFO or similar.

jimmy frag
12/29/2012, 06:39 PM
i would rip that tank down and start fresh when you get a rodi unit. dont trust your fish stores water either, its most likely just ro. good luck with your tank

Painted skin
12/29/2012, 06:39 PM
How much water change are you doing? You may need to step up increase water change volume. You're using HOB filter with foam are feeding with it on running? If so turn it off when feeding as food is collected and trapped, it's a nitrate factory. How much are you feeding, may want to cut down on feeding. Definitely high nutrient you running with old bulbs does not help. Your not registering phosphate, because your cyano is consuming it faster.

Suggestion:

-vacuum as much cyano as possible.
-take rocks out one by one and swish it around in clean saltwater to clean cyano from rocks.
-do more frequent WC and might want to increase the volume changed, at least until you get a handle on it.
-Replace bulbs and make sure you change bulbs sooner.
-make sure you have enough water flow with no dead spots. (you may still have lot of current, but still hav dead spots).
-maintain skimmer often. Also your skim mate is a bit Dark which is fine, but may want to do a wet-er skim.
-Make sure to not over feed and don't let that filter run until all food is gone.
-Get rid of those structure and replace with LR instead.

Steve Wright2
12/29/2012, 06:47 PM
agreed with the comments thus far on flow, and the addition of GFO
as these will help control future issues

black outs - these need to be done properly, in that the tank needs to be covered with dark material, of reasonable thickness, because even low levels of natural light can be enough to prolong the existance of some of the cyno, thus if no other action is taken, within a few weeks it has once again spread and taken over the tank

so black out for 72 hours, fully covered
increase flow or ensure flow is better throughout the tank
get some GFO - this could be in a mesh bag in your HOB filter or if you have sump, in a reactor would be more efficient ( start the GFO using half the suggested dose for a week or so and allow your inhabitant time to adjust to the better water quality slowly)

no more tap water for water changes becuase that may be the source of the cyno, so every water change your currently doing may be worsening the problem rather than being part of the cure



Steve

trinidiver
12/29/2012, 07:16 PM
Wow, that tank is really in a bad state. He may even be willilg to try Chemi-clean with heavy areation. He may have o do a few treatments but it will work fast. I;ve used it a few times on my other tank and it worked like a charm.

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 07:23 PM
How much water change are you doing? You may need to step up increase water change volume. You're using HOB filter with foam are feeding with it on running? If so turn it off when feeding as food is collected and trapped, it's a nitrate factory. How much are you feeding, may want to cut down on feeding. Definitely high nutrient you running with old bulbs does not help. Your not registering phosphate, because your cyano is consuming it faster.

Suggestion:

-vacuum as much cyano as possible.
-take rocks out one by one and swish it around in clean saltwater to clean cyano from rocks.
-do more frequent WC and might want to increase the volume changed, at least until you get a handle on it.
-Replace bulbs and make sure you change bulbs sooner.
-make sure you have enough water flow with no dead spots. (you may still have lot of current, but still hav dead spots).
-maintain skimmer often. Also your skim mate is a bit Dark which is fine, but may want to do a wet-er skim.
-Make sure to not over feed and don't let that filter run until all food is gone.
-Get rid of those structure and replace with LR instead.

Thanks for feedback!
w/c.. I'm currently doing 20% to 25% twice a week. my reg schedule the past 5 yrs was about 15% every other week.
never thought about turning off filter during feedings.. will do that for now on thank you.. I use to overfeed years ago because I loved the feeding frenzy with flakes. Have since learned my lesson (had high nitrates) and now only do a tiny pinch of LifeSpectrum Pellets (I have alot of little guys) every morning and a small portion of frozen food once a week


agreed with the comments thus far on flow, and the addition of GFO
as these will help control future issues

black outs - these need to be done properly, in that the tank needs to be covered with dark material, of reasonable thickness, because even low levels of natural light can be enough to prolong the existance of some of the cyno, thus if no other action is taken, within a few weeks it has once again spread and taken over the tank

so black out for 72 hours, fully covered
increase flow or ensure flow is better throughout the tank
get some GFO - this could be in a mesh bag in your HOB filter or if you have sump, in a reactor would be more efficient ( start the GFO using half the suggested dose for a week or so and allow your inhabitant time to adjust to the better water quality slowly)

no more tap water for water changes becuase that may be the source of the cyno, so every water change your currently doing may be worsening the problem rather than being part of the cure

Steve

Thanks for feedback! I will def look into GFO.. I don't have a sump or reactor, so I never thought I could go with it. I stopped using tap water over a year ago, 18mos actually. I will never go back!! I had tested my water with good results. But I just knew after all the literature.. that I needed to switch.

Painted skin
12/29/2012, 07:23 PM
Wow, that tank is really in a bad state. He may even be willilg to try Chemi-clean with heavy areation. He may have o do a few treatments but it will work fast. I;ve used it a few times on my other tank and it worked like a charm.

Though that might be an option for short term fix, unless you nip in the butt the problem for long term. It will come back.

Touring
12/29/2012, 07:26 PM
i would rip that tank down and start fresh when you get a rodi unit. dont trust your fish stores water either, its most likely just ro. good luck with your tank

That's probably the ugliest tank I have ever seen. Throw that thing away and start over.

Painted skin
12/29/2012, 07:30 PM
That's probably the ugliest tank I have ever seen. Throw that thing away and start over.

haha, no beating around the bush or sugar coating on that one. Not making fun of your situation thebkramer, just a funny comment.

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 07:31 PM
Wow, that tank is really in a bad state. He may even be willilg to try Chemi-clean with heavy areation. He may have o do a few treatments but it will work fast. I;ve used it a few times on my other tank and it worked like a charm.

I did almost fold and use Red Slime Remover.. but I refuse to use it. I just can't.. not unless its an absolute last resort. I still want to get ahead of this with lots of extra TLC!!



I am also taking what rocks I can out and cleaning them when I do my w/c.
I do have a lot of water flow.. its even better now. the same day my 750 went out.. I bought the 1400.
My castles have been in the tank from day 1.. we've had no problems first 5yrs of tank.. then two small cyano outbreaks with some HA in year 6... I can't see myself parting with them.. they are just like LR.. you won't believe everything growing on them.. or the population of buttons that were on there (I personally cut them back due to its invasion on my tank)
I also use it as "caves" for my Red Chili cactus and black tubastrea.. which are both doing good.

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 07:33 PM
That's probably the ugliest tank I have ever seen. Throw that thing away and start over.

wow! really? unreal smh
my tank is gorgeous.. just hurting right now!

BAGGERZ13
12/29/2012, 07:33 PM
Tap water is loaded with phosphate so i would definitely start there. Replace those "pagoda" like structures like another member has stated and as you do your water changes i would take each rock out one by one to clean it and as you do the waterchange vacuum out some the sand to help clear that up.

Steve Wright2
12/29/2012, 07:34 PM
Thanks for feedback! I will def look into GFO.. I don't have a sump or reactor, so I never thought I could go with it. I stopped using tap water over a year ago, 18mos actually. I will never go back!! I had tested my water with good results. But I just knew after all the literature.. that I needed to switch.[/QUOTE]

you are welcome thebkrammer

GFO does work in mesh pouches in HOB or cannister filters
it is not as efficient, as a reactor, but still effective

as mentioned by others, deal with the cyno you have
syphoning, or black out ( a plastic mesh type colander or tray placed over the nem, may prevent it going on walkabout during lights out)

once it has been dealt with
increase the flow
add the GFO ( half suggested amount when you start)
and all being well, you should not have the issue negatively affecting your enjoyment of the tank, in the future


Steve

Boboli
12/29/2012, 07:39 PM
Speechless

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 07:49 PM
as mentioned by others, deal with the cyno you have
syphoning, or black out ( a plastic mesh type colander or tray placed over the nem, may prevent it going on walkabout during lights out)

once it has been dealt with
increase the flow
add the GFO ( half suggested amount when you start)
and all being well, you should not have the issue negatively affecting your enjoyment of the tank, in the future

Steve

I will continue with the w/c and scrubbing my rockwork. Hopefully adding GFO will add to the positives like the new lighting. I just did a blackout right before xmas and it was with a blanket wrapped around the outside leaving the top open for oxygen exchange. I will do the tent method next month if needed. I wish I could show a pic of what it looked like right after.. even from the 26th to now is unreal with how quickly it covered everything!!

when you say increase the flow... how? I was told a second 1400 would be too much flow in my tank along with the other Koralia and my HOBs. How would you increase it?

Steve Wright2
12/29/2012, 08:03 PM
Thebkrammer

you now have 2 x 1400 GPH power heads?
if so that gives you about 50 x volume in flow, and that should be perfectly adequate
just need to make sure its distributed well
cyno often forms in areas of less flow, and as most of us want our sand beds to stay on the bottom, rather than pilling up in the corners, the lowest part of the tank often has least amount of flow, and cyno appreciates the calm water and the resulting pockets of nutrients that are found there

so try and create an even flow throughout the set up, with just enough water movement along sand bed area but not enough that would shift the sand
its a fine balancing act, but with trial and error it is achievable

Steve

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 08:13 PM
kay... again.. I appreciate it. I knew what needed to be done.. but I also knew there has to be more.. Thanks to you and Painted Skin.. I def have more hope with getting things back to really enjoying our tank!!

s_kelley
12/29/2012, 08:34 PM
Look into dr. Tim's aquatics their re fresh and waste away product would clear that bad boy right up I bet

frankyrivera
12/29/2012, 08:34 PM
I'm not a fan of chemo pure or any other chemical treatment but from the looks of it most people refuse from going that route due to their livestock but I don't see any SPS or LPS for that matter in your tank so why not just bite the bullet do the treatment followed by massive water changes and help tip the scales in your favor. Is there any way of installing a rodi under your kitchen sink or bathroom or basement that's removable just for water changes. You can always put a brute trash can in the kitchen set the rodi on the counter and buy a hose attachment with a John west fitting for the ro tubing perform water change an put all into empty brute container when done till your next change

ssteal
12/29/2012, 08:45 PM
Use some chemiclean

EricShane
12/29/2012, 09:03 PM
What I would do...
Take out the castles and other non reef organic decor.. And buy a couple more powerheads, take a turkey baster and stir your bed around and blow off anything un there you can, run.carbon and change it after a couple days.. Dont be scared to blow around junk in there, it cant get worse

trinidiver
12/29/2012, 09:12 PM
Use some chemiclean




Thats what i'm telling him. will clean that tank up

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 09:14 PM
I'm not a fan of chemo pure or any other chemical treatment but from the looks of it most people refuse from going that route due to their livestock but I don't see any SPS or LPS for that matter in your tank so why not just bite the bullet do the treatment followed by massive water changes and help tip the scales in your favor. Is there any way of installing a rodi under your kitchen sink or bathroom or basement that's removable just for water changes. You can always put a brute trash can in the kitchen set the rodi on the counter and buy a hose attachment with a John west fitting for the ro tubing perform water change an put all into empty brute container when done till your next change

I am one who refuses.. but did def think about it.. even bought it. Just can't bring myself to use it! I do have a PTA that I am most worried about with using it, along with pom pom crabs and a tubastrea.
I do think..now.. that I can get to the other side without it.

as for the RO/DI unit. I just don't have the room for one right now. I am moving in the spring.. so I WILL make sure to get a big enough place (basement) to accommodate my tank!! I don't mind lugging water from lfs for now. it is what it is

Painted skin
12/29/2012, 09:15 PM
What I would do...
Take out the castles and other non reef organic decor.. And buy a couple more powerheads, take a turkey baster and stir your bed around and blow off anything un there you can, run.carbon and change it after a couple days.. Dont be scared to blow around junk in there, it cant get worse


No, you need to extract the cyano not stir it around and spreading it around. I like to know who gave you that info and give them a spanking.

MinnFish
12/29/2012, 09:19 PM
How many years of tap water usage? Phosphate is leeching out from rocks and sandbed. Probably best to replace sandbed and then run GFO.

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 09:34 PM
6 years of running with tap! all I did was let it sit in jugs for days before using..which I know all it did was dechlorinate the water. Tests always came back clean of trates and phos.. but I eventually just didn't believe the tests and switched over.

I can't say it enough!!! I WISH I NEVER EVER USED TAP!!!!!!

and I really wish I had found RC before starting a saltwater tank!!!
I learned soooo much more here in just a few months (and still do years later) than I ever did with my lfs and some books.

MinnFish
12/29/2012, 09:43 PM
I feel your pain. Just hang in there, this will pass. We all have problems, and they all can be rectified. Good luck, and happy new year.

frankyrivera
12/29/2012, 09:50 PM
If you're really set on keeping your Disney castle I would at least take it out scrub it rinse it and then put it back together with all the other pieces. I can only see about 4 fish and a bunch of zoas and polyps. It's time to pull the trigger on a fix and pull the trigger on the chemi pure follow the directions to the letter and then work on better water quality from there on

mikmac
12/29/2012, 10:38 PM
i have used chemi clean before and it works pretty well.

EricShane
12/29/2012, 10:48 PM
I seriously doubt the tap water was the biggest fault

thebkramer
12/29/2012, 11:00 PM
I feel your pain. Just hang in there, this will pass. We all have problems, and they all can be rectified. Good luck, and happy new year.

Thanks.. I appreciate the kind words!! Happy New Year to you too!!


I seriously doubt the tap water was the biggest fault

it certainly was not..
it was a combo of things.. bad bulbs, letting the tank go skimless for awhile, and not being able to get a better hold on the cyano when it first appeared.

not because I didn't want to.. but because I couldn't... I can now !!

jgoodrich71
12/29/2012, 11:04 PM
Just remember, it took 5-6 years for your tank to get like this. It is not going to correct its self overnight. Just keep working at it and you will see improvement. Nothing good ever happens fast in this hobby.

Gary Majchrzak
12/30/2012, 12:09 AM
Just remember, it took 5-6 years for your tank to get like this. It is not going to correct its self overnight. Just keep working at it and you will see improvement. Nothing good ever happens fast in this hobby.x2
and it all starts with the owner's attitude and ability. It sounds like they're on the right path!

I'd like to see this aquarium turn around because I KNOW it can be a showstopper.

You've received a LOT of suggestions for beating Cyano here.
The bottom line is that you need to limit and increase nutrient EXPORT so that it's greather than IMPORT (ie: what's going into the aquarium).
My suggestions to help starve out red slime: use a reliable instrument to keep specific gravity (S.G.) at 1.026 and run a properly rated skimmer correctly 24/7

YOU CAN BEAT RED SLIME!

heathlindner25
12/30/2012, 06:09 AM
if you use the chemicals your losing half the fun of it!! and you have to learn the errors of your ways less feeding more water changes the learning curve on how to get rid of cyno is part of the hobby. I've had cyno it can be beat!! but if you don't learn what's causing it you can buy all the chemi-clean you want your still gonna get it
P.s. I've done 20 percent water changes weekly ever since I had cyno, and that was over a year ago, it's actually broke down to-2 ,10 percent water changes a week and before I do the water change I use a powerhead to blow off all my rocks.

thebkramer
12/30/2012, 08:36 AM
Just remember, it took 5-6 years for your tank to get like this. It is not going to correct its self overnight. Just keep working at it and you will see improvement. Nothing good ever happens fast in this hobby.

Totally agree!!! Thats why I won't use a quick fix!! I know its going to take some time, patience, and little extra elbow grease! but I'm ready!!!

x2
and it all starts with the owner's attitude and ability. It sounds like they're on the right path!

I'd like to see this aquarium turn around because I KNOW it can be a showstopper.

You've received a LOT of suggestions for beating Cyano here.
The bottom line is that you need to limit and increase nutrient EXPORT so that it's greather than IMPORT (ie: what's going into the aquarium).
My suggestions to help starve out red slime: use a reliable instrument to keep specific gravity (S.G.) at 1.026 and run a properly rated skimmer correctly 24/7

YOU CAN BEAT RED SLIME!

Thanks Gary! So appreciated! def on my way! and refractometer is in mail.

if you use the chemicals your losing half the fun of it!! and you have to learn the errors of your ways less feeding more water changes the learning curve on how to get rid of cyno is part of the hobby. I've had cyno it can be beat!! but if you don't learn what's causing it you can buy all the chemi-clean you want your still gonna get it
P.s. I've done 20 percent water changes weekly ever since I had cyno, and that was over a year ago, it's actually broke down to-2 ,10 percent water changes a week and before I do the water change I use a powerhead to blow off all my rocks.

thanks for feedback!!

Just wanted to thank everyone who gave me positive feedback, encouragement and constructive criticism!!!! I am feeling much more confident with the road to recovery!! I knew what needed to be done, but now I have even more ammo to attack our tank with!!!!

Today:
Doing water change..
scrubbing off LR in separate container..
suck out as much cyano from tank that I can...
go buy GFO and place in filter (using 1/2 the amount)

days to come:
patience and more water changes !!!

Thanks Again All!!
Rhonda :bounce3:

thebkramer
12/30/2012, 09:41 AM
As Painted Skin suggested.. I am turning off filter during feedings.. but now I'm thinking.. do I really need the foam? is this just another nitrate/phos collector? I thought it was helping with water quality..? but if its more of a hinder than help, I am more than willing to stop buying them! lol Thoughts? I also run carbon in there too (more than suggested) and will be adding GFO today. Which brings me to another question.. Do I run both GFO and carbon? or just the GFO? Is there something else I should put in there??
I also read a thread in Reef Discussion about AZ-NO3... but not sure if its a quick fix product or not?

With buying GFO.. do I go with Granular or High Capacity?

thanks.. Rhonda

Mr. Demeanor
12/30/2012, 09:52 AM
I had it like that or worse. Hit it with ChemiClean to get ahead of it and never looked back. Every now and then I will get a little spot and then it disappears after a few days.
You obviously need to make some changes to your program but I would hit it with ChemiClean to get a head start.

mpierce
12/30/2012, 09:56 AM
3 days of lights out, suck up as much cyano as you can before. Then for the sake of all things good get an RO/DI! Start some heavy water changes and get this thing under control.

Gary Majchrzak
12/30/2012, 11:08 AM
I'm not a fan of 'lights out' for Cyano because all it does is release the "Cyano fuel" back into the water column... only to reappear as new Cyano when the lights go back on.
Syphon the Cyano out. Clean up the water. Leave your lights alone.

thebkramer
12/30/2012, 11:21 AM
As Painted Skin suggested.. I am turning off filter during feedings.. but now I'm thinking.. do I really need the foam? is this just another nitrate/phos collector? I thought it was helping with water quality..? but if its more of a hinder than help, I am more than willing to stop buying them! lol Thoughts? I also run carbon in there too (more than suggested) and will be adding GFO today. Which brings me to another question.. Do I run both GFO and carbon? or just the GFO? Is there something else I should put in there??
I also read a thread in Reef Discussion about AZ-NO3... but not sure if its a quick fix product or not?

With buying GFO.. do I go with Granular or High Capacity?

thanks.. Rhonda


just worried this got lost.. need some input with these ?'s
lfs is only open til 5 and closed til the 2nd :lol2:

whitemarlin
12/30/2012, 11:54 AM
I would drop the foam and run just run GFO and carbon in the HOB, as for which GFO type i've only used BRS regular GFO never used the HC GFO it may be better for your setup with you not using a reactor.

Painted skin
12/30/2012, 05:39 PM
Removing the foam is an option, but you can still use foam as a mechanical filter to remove larger debris which your skimmer and carbon won't pickup. Having said that you must clean it on a regular basis you should be fine. If left alone with build up it's a nitrate factory. As for GFO and GAC you can use both as they are design to do 2 different things.

Sk8r
12/30/2012, 05:50 PM
NEVERNEVERNEVER stir a sandbed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you want a sandbed cleaned, turn a few (very!) Nassarius snails loose in it.

Overturning a sandbed in an older tank is an engraved invitation to a total tank crash.

I'd recommend a decent (not great) skimmer, nassarius under the sand, and a sequence of large ro/di water changes, 2 25% changes a week until chemistry improves. Changing it with more tap water isn't going to help much---some, but not much. You might also finish the cleanup with a bit of polyfilter, qv. Read the sticky on Dirt Simple Chemistry, and ask questions until it makes sense. While large water changes are rough on a tank---really bad water is rougher.

input80
12/30/2012, 10:19 PM
Some great reading advice there, mind if I piggyback on this thread while I learn (could be for yrs tho lol) ?

edman79
12/31/2012, 05:40 AM
I'm a noob myself, so I'm not much help, but I will give you my experience with cyano. I got a nanocube as a gift from an aunt of mine who had no clue what she was doing. I had never had a saltwater tank before either. When she gave me the tank, the cyano was WAY worse than what you have. She was doing tapwater top offs and poor maintenance. The whole tank was blanketed in the stuff. I'm talking thick sheets of the stuff. I could literally pull it out like it was a blanket. Pulled out as much as I could manually and did 50% water changes weekly with LFS water. Much better now. Luckily my fix was easier than yours, but it's doable.

Eddie Ed

lance1337
12/31/2012, 06:12 AM
You've answered your own question. You cannot run a successful reef tank with old bulbs, tap water, no skimmer, no water movement and nitrates at 80 ppm. You can't seriously be wondering why you have cyano?

Invest in proper equipment and get your water quality in shape. That's it.

+1

Also, try some of that red slime remover if you haven't already.

thebkramer
12/31/2012, 08:31 AM
You've answered your own question. You cannot run a successful reef tank with old bulbs, tap water, no skimmer, no water movement and nitrates at 80 ppm. You can't seriously be wondering why you have cyano?
Invest in proper equipment and get your water quality in shape. That's it.

obviously misread what I wrote. I do have proper equipment. I never asked why I have cyano.. I asked what else can I do with my current plan. there are also lots of reefers that run a successful tank with no skimmer.. however I don't want to be one lol no water movement? never said I didn't have any. Thanks for feedback... (:

Removing the foam is an option, but you can still use foam as a mechanical filter to remove larger debris which your skimmer and carbon won't pickup. Having said that you must clean it on a regular basis you should be fine. If left alone with build up it's a nitrate factory. As for GFO and GAC you can use both as they are design to do 2 different things.

okay.. that's what I thought. I was changing out my foam every month.. maybe best to start changing every other week?? and rinsing weekly? is that too much or not enough you think? and thanks for getting back to me about GFO! I bought the granular, they didn't have the other one.

NEVERNEVERNEVER stir a sandbed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you want a sandbed cleaned, turn a few (very!) Nassarius snails loose in it.

Overturning a sandbed in an older tank is an engraved invitation to a total tank crash.

I'd recommend a decent (not great) skimmer, nassarius under the sand, and a sequence of large ro/di water changes, 2 25% changes a week until chemistry improves. Changing it with more tap water isn't going to help much---some, but not much. You might also finish the cleanup with a bit of polyfilter, qv. Read the sticky on Dirt Simple Chemistry, and ask questions until it makes sense. While large water changes are rough on a tank---really bad water is rougher.

Thanks for input Sk8r!! I feel special :lol2:
I def won't stir my sandbed.. didn't plan too.. to scared of it lol and I'm done with tap and won't look back. I will def look into polyfilter and Dirt Simple Chemistry!!! thanks again!!!

Some great reading advice there, mind if I piggyback on this thread while I learn (could be for yrs tho lol) ?

this is a part of my reason for posting.. so others can see and learn!! :lol2: (but it won't be years lol)

I'm a noob myself, so I'm not much help, but I will give you my experience with cyano. I got a nanocube as a gift from an aunt of mine who had no clue what she was doing. I had never had a saltwater tank before either. When she gave me the tank, the cyano was WAY worse than what you have. She was doing tapwater top offs and poor maintenance. The whole tank was blanketed in the stuff. I'm talking thick sheets of the stuff. I could literally pull it out like it was a blanket. Pulled out as much as I could manually and did 50% water changes weekly with LFS water. Much better now. Luckily my fix was easier than yours, but it's doable.
Eddie Ed

thanks for feedback!

Soo.. did the 25% w/c yesterday and scrubbed all the rocks I could take out and sucked up the others with a toothbrush and turkey baster. I put in GFO also. Hopefully this time it won't be back as bad in the next couple of days. Oh.. and I have a new friend now.... Hair Algae!! yay! lol I def expected this though.. I'm sure it will be fine though and will disappear with the cyano. I plan on another w/c in a few days.

Will post pics and water params in a bit!!

rustyjames
12/31/2012, 08:43 AM
I've seen your tank over the years and really like it. I know with diligence you'll get it back to it's former glory. Another option, in addition to what's been suggested, there are some nice display macro algaes. Since you don't have a sump it might be an attractive way to harvest some n and p. Good luck.

Herbie
12/31/2012, 09:02 AM
Try to keep your PH on the higher side. High PH/alk will help bind phosphates. Consider dosing kalk if you arent already, it will help raise and maintain PH and Alk. It also does a great job of keeping undesirable algea and cyano outbreaks to a minimum. I would recommend using a good top off system like an osmolator, and a kalk reactor. In the long run, your tank will be much better off and more stable if you use kalk water for all top off / evap water. Also, use a good phosphate control media to absorb as much as possible. Rowa phos would work well for you. It will keep the hair algea to a minimum once you get the cyano under control.



HTH
Herbie

edman79
12/31/2012, 11:07 AM
I also had a hair algae outbreak after I cleaned out the cyano. I got rid of that also, no idea how though. Now I just have a straight boring tank. I actually kinda liked the look of the hair algae. I actually like the color of the cyano too. LOL. I'm retarded, I know. Even my wife said that she missed all the color the cyano gave the tank. LMAO. I need some corals, badly.

Eddie Ed

Sk8r
12/31/2012, 01:03 PM
If you've got hair algae, this is actually a good sign. You've got phosphate (your tapwater, sand, and rock) and the gfo will help with the green algae over about a 3 month period. Thing about cyano, it mutates to find an available nutrient: it NEEDS only light, water, and carbon. The only thing you can take from it in a marine tank without killing the tank---is light. So do the lights-out once monthly during your cleanup, but lights-out won't half work if you don't have a skimmer keeping ahead of the die-off. Get the skimmer functioning at top efficiency and keep it going.

Painted skin
12/31/2012, 01:54 PM
okay.. that's what I thought. I was changing out my foam every month.. maybe best to start changing every other week?? and rinsing weekly? is that too much or not enough you think? and thanks for getting back to me about GFO! I bought the granular, they didn't have the other one.



Since you have a HOB filter it very easy to just take it out once a week and rinse it a small bucket of saltwater will take you no more than 5 minutes.





I also had a hair algae outbreak after I cleaned out the cyano. I got rid of that also, no idea how though. Now I just have a straight boring tank. I actually kinda liked the look of the hair algae. I actually like the color of the cyano too. LOL. I'm retarded, I know. Even my wife said that she missed all the color the cyano gave the tank. LMAO. I need some corals, badly.

Eddie Ed

You can also seed your rocks with different color Coraline algae that will also give some more color.

thebkramer
12/31/2012, 02:11 PM
I've seen your tank over the years and really like it. I know with diligence you'll get it back to it's former glory. Another option, in addition to what's been suggested, there are some nice display macro algaes. Since you don't have a sump it might be an attractive way to harvest some n and p. Good luck.
thanks Rusty!! I thought about macro.. I've even had it in my tank before, in soap dishes.. but for some reason it never really helped or someone always pulled it out of the dish and I'd have a bunch of mini pieces all over.. got really annoying!
If you've got hair algae, this is actually a good sign. You've got phosphate (your tapwater, sand, and rock) and the gfo will help with the green algae over about a 3 month period. Thing about cyano, it mutates to find an available nutrient: it NEEDS only light, water, and carbon. The only thing you can take from it in a marine tank without killing the tank---is light. So do the lights-out once monthly during your cleanup, but lights-out won't half work if you don't have a skimmer keeping ahead of the die-off. Get the skimmer functioning at top efficiency and keep it going.
just did a lights out.. so next month I'll do again.. I have an Eshopps and its working like mad!!
Since you have a HOB filter it very easy to just take it out once a week and rinse it a small bucket of saltwater.
this was what I was doing in the beginning.. guess I got lazy and just started replacing it once a month instead. smh I will put it back in the maintenance schedule and keep it there!!!

THANKS ALL!!!!!


Here are some pics after scrubbing and w/c


http://i50.*******.com/1e2u0j.jpg
http://i48.*******.com/2637bz5.jpg
http://i46.*******.com/6sqg46.jpg
http://i49.*******.com/5duq1x.jpg
http://i50.*******.com/28spugp.jpg
http://i48.*******.com/2ebu3ic.jpg

and the params as of this morning
Trites Ammonia Phos 0
Trates 60
pH 7.8
alk 9
Ca 480 (a bit high?)
salin 1.026
temp 80.2

the tank pretty much looks the same today, with a touch more cyano in the sand, but thats expected. I hope it stays at bay on the rocks this time! we'll see!

OrQidz
12/31/2012, 05:17 PM
it looks a lot better! You are obviously willing to put in the work to get your tank back in shape so I'm sure you will get it there.

I have a HOB filter for mechanical filtration. I buy those sheets of blue filter foam stuff at the LFS, along with a finer filter pad. I usually change these out daily. (I cut them into small filter sized pieces and just swap out the dirty one with a clean one). If you've got live rock, I don't think you want a sponge acting as a biofilter anyway.

Good luck and kudos on your hard work!

input80
12/31/2012, 05:22 PM
The cleanup looks good so far. When I said years, I meant my learning period, so far it looks like one can never stop learning in this hobby. I just hope that my joining it was not another "impulse" buy, lol.

frankyrivera
12/31/2012, 05:25 PM
if you use the chemicals your losing half the fun of it!! and you have to learn the errors of your ways less feeding more water changes the learning curve on how to get rid of cyno is part of the hobby. I've had cyno it can be beat!! but if you don't learn what's causing it you can buy all the chemi-clean you want your still gonna get it
P.s. I've done 20 percent water changes weekly ever since I had cyno, and that was over a year ago, it's actually broke down to-2 ,10 percent water changes a week and before I do the water change I use a powerhead to blow off all my rocks.

Really half the fun. I thought think cyano or any other outbreak is any fun lol but I agree with everything else as far as learning and getting to the root of the problem. But fun lol I highly doubt it. Good luck

thebkramer
12/31/2012, 05:36 PM
it looks a lot better! You are obviously willing to put in the work to get your tank back in shape so I'm sure you will get it there.
I have a HOB filter for mechanical filtration. I buy those sheets of blue filter foam stuff at the LFS, along with a finer filter pad. I usually change these out daily. (I cut them into small filter sized pieces and just swap out the dirty one with a clean one). If you've got live rock, I don't think you want a sponge acting as a biofilter anyway.
Good luck and kudos on your hard work!
Thanks! and Thanks for the HOB tip! I look into them.

The cleanup looks good so far. When I said years, I meant my learning period, so far it looks like one can never stop learning in this hobby. I just hope that my joining it was not another "impulse" buy, lol.
:lmao: I got ya know!! and it is years!! I'm still learning 7 yrs later!!! its an never ending pool of knowledge!! and I love every minute of it!! (well almost! hahhaaha)

Really half the fun. I thought think cyano or any other outbreak is any fun lol but I agree with everything else as far as learning and getting to the root of the problem. But fun lol I highly doubt it. Good luck
:lol2: I'm having a Blast!!! :uhoh3: :eek1: :fun2: :wildone:

input80
12/31/2012, 08:42 PM
Yup & I just started last month.
I would like to thank everyone that has posted here, I am definitely learning quite a bit.
Do you know what your cyano started as, I mean how much ? I just want to know the signs that I need to be looking for ?

luker80
12/31/2012, 08:42 PM
I know you don't have a sump but is there any way you could grow some chetto or other macro algae that might eat the nutrients before the Cyano?

Luc

luker80
12/31/2012, 08:47 PM
oops, I guess I missed some posts! The tank is definatly looking much better. Keep up the good work.

thebkramer
01/01/2013, 08:50 AM
Yup & I just started last month.
I would like to thank everyone that has posted here, I am definitely learning quite a bit.
Do you know what your cyano started as, I mean how much ? I just want to know the signs that I need to be looking for ?
it starts off as small patch(es) on rocks, sand, maybe even your corals. There are many reasons for it to decide to invade your tank.. lighting, bad skimmer, weak water flow, overfeeding, high nitrates, high phosphates... just to name a few :lol2: and if the conditions are right.. will quickly turn into what I've posted.. and can even get worse!!!!!
So glad you are finding my thread informative!! part of my reason for sharing my skeleton :lmao:
there are some Great threads out there by Sk8r and other awesome reefers about cyano!! lots of info!! here are a couple links if you feel like reading up more about it. Sk8r actually has LOTS and LOTS of threads & blogs with LOTS & LOTS of info for any and everyone!!!! She puts alot of time into giving us all the info we need.. and then some!!! :bounce3:

Sk8rs Info on Cyano (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1969115)
More Cyano by SK8r (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2095174&highlight=cyano)

there is info in the Capns Log (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1786183) .. PLUS lots of other great stuff too!!

and here are some other of my favs that I reference often if you're interested!!

WaterKeepers New to RC (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074)
WaterKeepers New to RC2 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1696795)
WaterKeepers Newbies Info (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18934902#post18934902)
Sk8rs-How to Start a Tank (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19333137#post19333137)
Sk8rs Blog (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/blog.php?u=116634)

I have links for days :lmao: especially on critters and creepy crawlies! so if you're ever interested in others.. let me know :lol2:

The tank is definately looking much better. Keep up the good work.
Thanks !!!! appreciate it!!

thebkramer
01/01/2013, 09:12 AM
Todays status

Found some spots of cyano I missed.. will be taking care of that today. Other than that.. things are still looking good.. not too bad with "regrowth" this time. I'm also going to pull out the couple of rocks that the HA appeared.. looks like it grew 1in overnight. So gonna pluck what I can off. think I'd rather have HA than cyano!?!?!? am I nuts? lol

Params this am
Ammonia Trites Phos 0 wonder when the phos will actually start reading?
Trates 60
pH 7.8
alk 9
Ca 480
salin 1.026
temp 77.6 cold this am.. I switched my 2nd heater to daytime runner.. don't know why? plan to switch to night runner

also always have an issue with getting my alk higher.. should I start using Kent SuperBuffer dkH or Kents Coral Builder?? (actually, don't even remember what Coral Builder is for smh)

here are some pics (:

http://i45.*******.com/15ot7hy.jpg

Hair Algae growth
http://i47.*******.com/zvugeh.jpg
http://i49.*******.com/vcxsgl.jpg
http://i49.*******.com/2nkufeq.jpg
http://i47.*******.com/34ooxlf.jpg

patches of cyano I missed
http://i45.*******.com/14cgn47.jpg

and my Skimmate from just 24hrs

http://i45.*******.com/2ypllz7.jpg

now just to hope tank still looks like this by 6pm! (one day at a time!

other plan today.. update signature! its a bit off!!!!

thebkramer
01/02/2013, 09:08 AM
Tank still holding strong!!! :lol2:

there are still patches of cyano here and there on rocks and sand... I will again suck what I can up tomorrow with another water change. Feeling good!! :bounce3:
if in a few weeks I still have some remaining.. I will do another black out.. may do it anyways just to be sure.....

So.. I bought a package of Polyfilter as Sk8r suggested.. will be placing that in today.

I went to LFS yesterday.. they were having a New Years Party.. so I wanted to see what I could get for a good price. I ended up winning a $13 gift card! woo hoo lol I also returned the RedSlime BS (17.99) ..so I ended up walking out of there with Polyfilter (12.99) Foam (6.99) and the Gift Card (now has $9.77 on it) its always nice to walk out getting things, not spending any money and to walk out with more money than I came in with LOL

so I asked a employee to help me find GFO and she states "no one uses GFO anymore.. you aren't going to find it anywhere"
oh really? lol I couldn't help but chuckle and say to her.. "oh.. I see"
I did speak to owner (he wasn't there the other day) and he is going to get some in for me.. but I have a feeling I will be better off ($$ wise) just buying it through BRS. or I could just use the ChemiPure Elite I suppose??

Water Params this AM

Trites, Ammonia phos 0
Trates 60
pH 7.8
alk 9
Ca 420
salin 1.026
temp 80.2

so I guess thats it!! I'm def better off now than last week!!

THANKS AGAIN TO ALL WHO HELPED WITH MY PLAN TO GET THINGS BACK ON TRACK!!! I REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!! RC ONCE AGAIN WINS!!!! SO THANKFUL THAT THERE ARE GREAT, FRIENDLY, EXPERIENCED REEFERS HERE!! :bounce3: