LEDs getting better and better

[edgey]

I have yet to take the LED plunge. It seems every couple months, something comes out about higher efficiency LED lighting.
Of course, the latest and greatest have a premium price tag.
My question is this-are the inexpensive LEDs on Ebay comparable to last year’s latest and greatest?
Leds seem like computers in terms of being able to get a super deal if you are willing to go with barely outdated technology.
Am I on target here?

Almost forgot-HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

[dunc101]

The cheap LED's on ebay are usually just cool whites + royal blue. The craze in LED's these days are all about full spectrum (true violet, royal blue, cool blue, warm/neutral white, turquoise, red, etc).
If you are looking for a good budget LED fixture, I would look at the reefbreeder fixtures as he has taken the "ebay" looking fixtures and made them pretty close to full spectrum (they use bridgelux LED's instead of cree just like the ones on ebay).
IMO, the best "cree LED" fixture on the market if you are looking at just the spectrum/performance + price point + dimmability is the Maxspect razor (this is also the fixtures that I chose and I am very happy with them thus far.... I've had them about a month and a half now with great growth and color so far). I also liked the radion, but I couldn't justify the extra cost plus the lack of true violet (the Radion Pro's will have these, however, but at a MUCH higher price point).

If it were me, I would look at the following for a LED fixture:
1.) Is the fixture "full spectrum"
2.) Is the fixture dimmable for acclimation purposes
3.) Price vs the features that it comes with. Do I really need to control every color LED and do I really want thunderstorms?
4.) What types of LED's does it use? Bridgelux, Cree, Rebel, etc. for the main whites and blues.

[michael.lemke]

Go to reefkoi.com he is importing the Chinese led's and bus new fixtures are including many different colors of led's. he is in the usa(Colorado) and warranties for 2 years. These are built better than the eBay o Ed and cheaper than the big name ones. Exactly what you described you wanted in your post.

[megadeth72]

in many cases the cheap ebay leds are better

[edgey]

Thanks guys. I was not aware of the trend to mix in a bunch of colors for a full spectrum effect. I was thinking DIY, but I'll definitely check out reefkoi.


What I wondered is do some of the inexpensive LEDs on ebay have similar specs as last years best and brightest LEDs?

in many cases the cheap ebay leds are better


That makes me lean real hard toward an inexpensive build.
With any given wavelenght, would LM/watt be the most important spec?

[AMDphenomx4]

I have yet to take the LED plunge. It seems every couple months, something comes out about higher efficiency LED lighting.
Of course, the latest and greatest have a premium price tag.
My question is this-are the inexpensive LEDs on Ebay comparable to last year’s latest and greatest?
Leds seem like computers in terms of being able to get a super deal if you are willing to go with barely outdated technology.
Am I on target here?

Almost forgot-HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Edit: Don't buy Ebay LEDs.

The Royal Blue LEDs on Ebay are literally half the output of a Cree XT-E or Luxeon Rebel ES.

The white LEDs are around 40% less than a Cree XT-E LED ran at the same power. They Ebay LED is still not much of a deal when you can buy a Luxeon M from FutureElectronics for under 8 dollars. The Luxeon M is a 12W multichip that surpasses the XM-L noticibly and is a bit less than a Cree MK-R.

Here is a chart (http://goo.gl/0nFzE) I just made. Unfortunately, I was wrong with the Bridgelux Aquastyle carries. This is a good representation of a majority of the LEDs on Ebay. Epiled has terribly inefficient Royal Blues.

Also don't forget that the XT-E White can run at 1.5A meaning that you could run it at 1A and save money instead of buying a cheap chinese LED.

Thrown here in case I want to add it back

The Bridgelux 3W from Aquastyle for instance, put out about 880mW of royal blue at 4W. A Rebel ES puts out 1460mW at at less than 3W. They're just not worth it. If Luxeon get's their stuff together, their Royal Blue Luxeon M could be a good cheap option similar to the XM-L.

For example, the bridgelux 4000K LED at aquastyle runs at 2.6W at its max of 700mA. It has a light output of 180-200lm. The Cree XT-E outputs 247lm and uses less than 2W.

[dread240]

Edit: Don't buy Ebay LEDs.

The Royal Blue LEDs on Ebay are literally half the output of a Cree XT-E or Luxeon Rebel ES.

The white LEDs are around 40% less than a Cree XT-E LED ran at the same power. They Ebay LED is still not much of a deal when you can buy a Luxeon M from FutureElectronics for under 8 dollars. The Luxeon M is a 12W multichip that surpasses the XM-L noticibly and is a bit less than a Cree MK-R.

Here is a chart (http://goo.gl/0nFzE) I just made. Unfortunately, I was wrong with the Bridgelux Aquastyle carries. This is a good representation of a majority of the LEDs on Ebay. Epiled has terribly inefficient Royal Blues.

Also don't forget that the XT-E White can run at 1.5A meaning that you could run it at 1A and save money instead of buying a cheap chinese LED.

Thrown here in case I want to add it back

The Bridgelux 3W from Aquastyle for instance, put out about 880mW of royal blue at 4W. A Rebel ES puts out 1460mW at at less than 3W. They're just not worth it. If Luxeon get's their stuff together, their Royal Blue Luxeon M could be a good cheap option similar to the XM-L.

For example, the bridgelux 4000K LED at aquastyle runs at 2.6W at its max of 700mA. It has a light output of 180-200lm. The Cree XT-E outputs 247lm and uses less than 2W.


And I'm in complete disagreeance with what you say about bridgelux and ebay LED's, as it comes down to the users preference and the installation.

How far off the water line can you get, full spectrum or just royal blue/warm white? do you care for spotlighting or color banding?

In my situation the cheap bridgelux LED's were the BEST choice for my setup. cheaper and lower output meant more of them crammed into the fixture for better color mixing. I'm also only running them at like 25-30% output too and about to back it down some more as I still think it's a tad too much for the corals.

[hllywd]

The whole"full spectrum" idea is missing the mark. At 60' in the ocean you don't get "full spectrum"... Metal halides don't produce the spectrum of a LED fixture with 14 different colors, I don't think it makes sense, nor is it provent to be better than a NW/RB combo.

As far as inefficient LEDs making sense, You will need more drivers, use more electric, and in general cost more in the long run. IMO MH is likely the better choice in tha case.

[dread240]

The whole"full spectrum" idea is missing the mark. At 60' in the ocean you don't get "full spectrum"... Metal halides don't produce the spectrum of a LED fixture with 14 different colors, I don't think it makes sense, nor is it provent to be better than a NW/RB combo.

As far as inefficient LEDs making sense, You will need more drivers, use more electric, and in general cost more in the long run. IMO MH is likely the better choice in tha case.

And again, you're talking a case by case basis. For the royal blues I required 1 additional driver for the extra LED's ($4.65 for the driver). The other channels would have made no difference whether I was using bridgelux or cree

With additional LED's I'm also running them nowhere near their peak (old measurements put the entire fixture at 120w, Probably at most 180w now at the max intensity I run them at, which includes losses for the 48v power supply)

How is that more expensive then 500w worth of metal halides? or the old outer orbit fixture I was running with 300w of metal halides and 216w of t5's (which also require bulb changes every 6 months or so)

Sorry to snap back, but some people are so blinded by their own beliefs

int ch1Brightness = 70; //Colors: Royal Blue and Blue
int ch2Brightness = 180; //Colors: Violet
int ch3Brightness = 90; //Colors: Green and Cyan
int ch4Brightness = 90; //Colors: Red and Pink
int ch5Brightness = 100; //Colors: 6500k and 4500k

My actual dimming settings in the program (and only at this point for 4 hours in the day). This is a 0-255 number, 0 is totally off, 255 is 700ma (all driven on LDD-700H's)

roughly 28% for royal blue (40 LED's total)
70% on the Violets (I like the look, 16 violets total)
35% on green, cyan, red and pink (6 green, 6 cyan, 4 red and 4 pink)
39% on the warm white and natural white (12 total)

In comparison for the same effect with the cree's you would use the same number of led's at a lower current (higher startup cost) to get the same coverage and spread that I get

You would use less LED's but drive them at a higher current then what I'm doing further off the water surface to get the same output

Most of my LED's are running at less then 1.5w per diode, simply because I have so many of them. The efficiency of the cree's really really really take over near full output, you will not under any circumstance hear me debate that fact, as they are undeniably the best in that situation.

Get to the point where you're only running 1 to 1.75w of power on the LED and everything across the board becomes much more competitive at that point, and there is no land slide victory then

Also the full spectrum thing is for us. Corals don't have this coloration in the wild, we are influencing them with artificial lighting. I made the mistake of my fixture being all cool white and royal blue bridgelux. That combo right there had the absolute worst color rendition on everything. Corals looked drab over time, no matter what I tried parameter wise I could not keep certain colors vibrant.

The new fixture has already alleviated that and many corals now look exactly the same as they do under MH or T5 lighting. I also have much better control with the meanwell LDD drivers compared to the maxwellen drivers that aquastyle sold their kits with

[Reef Developer]

....I also have much better control with the meanwell LDD drivers compared to the maxwellen drivers that aquastyle sold their kits with

Dread240,


I'm looking at those LDD drivers here: http://www.mouser.com/new/meanwell/meanwelllddled/ and datasheet: http://www.meanwell.com/search/ldd-h/default.htm). Couple questions;

- Since their constant current, is your only adjustment the PWM dimming? If I don't have a controller whats the easiest way to integrate a PWM dimmer?

- Whats the catch with these, other Meanwell drivers are $25+ at places like rapidLED. Why are these so much cheaper?

I'm planning on having ~ 6 RB and 5 NW for my nano. Would like each on their own string with dimming capabilities.

Thanks,
Kevin

[rrasco]

Edit: Don't buy Ebay LEDs.

The Royal Blue LEDs on Ebay are literally half the output of a Cree XT-E or Luxeon Rebel ES.

The white LEDs are around 40% less than a Cree XT-E LED ran at the same power. They Ebay LED is still not much of a deal when you can buy a Luxeon M from FutureElectronics for under 8 dollars. The Luxeon M is a 12W multichip that surpasses the XM-L noticibly and is a bit less than a Cree MK-R.

Here is a chart (http://goo.gl/0nFzE) I just made. Unfortunately, I was wrong with the Bridgelux Aquastyle carries. This is a good representation of a majority of the LEDs on Ebay. Epiled has terribly inefficient Royal Blues.

Also don't forget that the XT-E White can run at 1.5A meaning that you could run it at 1A and save money instead of buying a cheap chinese LED.

Thrown here in case I want to add it back

The Bridgelux 3W from Aquastyle for instance, put out about 880mW of royal blue at 4W. A Rebel ES puts out 1460mW at at less than 3W. They're just not worth it. If Luxeon get's their stuff together, their Royal Blue Luxeon M could be a good cheap option similar to the XM-L.

For example, the bridgelux 4000K LED at aquastyle runs at 2.6W at its max of 700mA. It has a light output of 180-200lm. The Cree XT-E outputs 247lm and uses less than 2W.


You can't just say 'ebay leds'. Everything is sold on ebay, from BL to Luxeon to CREE. Some of the CREE may be more efficient, but your call for more raw power isn't really the issue here. My LEDs (bridgelux from AS) are running at 50% and 30% for blues and whites, respectively, in a 21" deep tank and are doing wonderfully. Lots of other factors come into play such as height AWL, optics, and running intensities. Why would I want a more powerful LED when the 'lower quality' ones work great at under half power? Maybe a multitchip to reduce the number of emitters, but that's subjective to your goal.

As far as inefficient LEDs making sense, You will need more drivers, use more electric, and in general cost more in the long run. IMO MH is likely the better choice in tha case.

While some of us innovate and make it easier, cheaper, and better to DIY LEDs, you can keep making up stuff.

Dread240,

I'm looking at those LDD drivers here: http://www.mouser.com/new/meanwell/meanwelllddled/ and datasheet: http://www.meanwell.com/search/ldd-h/default.htm). Couple questions;

- Since their constant current, is your only adjustment the PWM dimming? If I don't have a controller whats the easiest way to integrate a PWM dimmer?

- Whats the catch with these, other Meanwell drivers are $25+ at places like rapidLED. Why are these so much cheaper?

I'm planning on having ~ 6 RB and 5 NW for my nano. Would like each on their own string with dimming capabilities.

Thanks,
Kevin

You need something to send a PWM signal. In short, no matter how you achieve that, it will be through some sort of microcontroller. You could use an Arduino, Jarduino, Typhon, or any other PWM capable controller of your choice.

LDDs are cheaper because it's just the driver. Drivers you buy from places like rapid have power supplies , housings, etc. The LDDs have to be wired up or put on PCBs. We have a thread with several PCB designs for the LDDs.

[Cuddlefish69]

I am waiting until LEDs are provin winners and come down in cost. Until then, MH for me....

[Reef Developer]

I am waiting until LEDs are provin winners and come down in cost. Until then, MH for me....


Well, I hear you. If you have an MH setup and you like it would be hard to say its worth it going to LED from a short term cost perspective. However, since they use a fraction of the power and don't produce heat it may be worth seeing what the long term savings are, especially if you have multiple MHs and use a cooler.

[rrasco]

I'm actually about to move my sump to my reef room and connect a frag tank to that system. Thinking about putting a MH on the frag tank and keeping LEDs on the DT. That way I can have two tanks, in two different rooms, with the same exact water params, but lit by MH or LED. This would probably give me a pretty good comparison between the two. I just don't want to deal with the heat in the system and the reef room. I'm just curious, because I have only ever run T5 or LED.

[Reef Developer]

Rrasco,

Thanks for your reply about the LDDs. I decided to go with either an LPF or ELN series Meanwell.

So, will you need to buy a MH since you said you only have run T5 or LED? I have a Sunpod laying around if your interested, perfect for a frag tank.

I dunno, if it was me I may not want to have both LED and MH to mess with....but it makes sense from an experiment perspective.

[rrasco]

Rrasco,

Thanks for your reply about the LDDs. I decided to go with either an LPF or ELN series Meanwell.

So, will you need to buy a MH since you said you only have run T5 or LED? I have a Sunpod laying around if your interested, perfect for a frag tank.

I dunno, if it was me I may not want to have both LED and MH to mess with....but it makes sense from an experiment perspective.

No prob.

I actually have a MH in my reef room, I just never used it. It was given to me from a reefer buddy. I have 2 ballasts and a reflector, probably need a new bulb. And yes, this would be purely experimental, I have no desire to run MH...unless I actually get better results.