Why does my blue tang look like this?

[brittanysmith18]

I've had this yellow belly blue tang for almost 4 years. When I first got her, she had an awful ich outbreak within the first week (from the store's tank), and I saved her. Ever since, she's looked pretty bad, but she eats a lot. She scratched a lot when she was younger, but as she ages, it just looks like it's getting worse. None of my other fish have been affected, and they've been together for 3 years. I've treated her repeatedly, nothing works. I changed up her diet, but she's pretty picky and didn't take too much to seaweed or krill. What is this? What can I do?

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a639/Basmith18/IMG_1443_zps6affa07a.jpg

[stuifbol]

OMG that fish looks very bad:sad1: you need to feed him a lot of spirulina and other greens.....multiple times/day....I feel sorry for the fish.
What exactly do you feed him then?
I've had this yellow belly blue tang for almost 4 years. When I first got her, she had an awful ich outbreak within the first week (from the store's tank), and I saved her. Ever since, she's looked pretty bad, but she eats a lot. She scratched a lot when she was younger, but as she ages, it just looks like it's getting worse. None of my other fish have been affected, and they've been together for 3 years. I've treated her repeatedly, nothing works. I changed up her diet, but she's pretty picky and didn't take too much to seaweed or krill. What is this? What can I do?

http://i1287.photobucket.com/albums/a639/Basmith18/IMG_1443_zps6affa07a.jpg

[DustyReefer]

OMG that fish looks very bad:sad1: you need to feed him a lot of spirulina and other greens.....multiple times/day....I feel sorry for the fish.
What exactly do you feed him then?

Agreed fish NEEDS greens in its diet. If you say that it won't eat the seaweed then you aren't getting it any sort of veggies? Try spirulina as mentioned, also there's seaweed extreme pellets hikari makes that Iv'e noticed most tangs even finicky ones love.

[brittanysmith18]

I've tried spirulina, frozen and flakes, I got a new nutritional flake with 55% protein, and that's her favorite it seems. She doesn't like the green food! :( What other veggies can I feed her?

[Megatrev62]

Definitely don't enter it in any beauty contests, lol.
Not much you can do. Accept it for what it is.

[DustyReefer]

try adding the nori attached to a rock with a rubber band instead of on a clip, some fish just don't seem to like the clip. As I said theres the hikari seaweed extreme pellets Iv'e used and my fish were crazy about them. Try soaking the food in garlic extract to help entice the fish to eat it. Just try pretty much everything you can until you find the right thing. Go raid your local fish store essentially.

[brittanysmith18]

I bought some garlic enriched pellets, and they just spit them out. I know she's ugly haha, but she's doing well otherwise! I didn't use a seaweed clip, the seaweed floated and my clownfish picked at it, but the tang wouldn't touch it.

[DustyReefer]

Put it on a clip or a rock as stated, so then the fish will have more time to graze on it, and try it.

[brittanysmith18]

I will try that. What type of seaweed is best? I noticed there's red, green.. etc. I got green, but maybe another is more nutritional?

[i3oosted]

I'm surprised that fish is still alive, especially after 4 years.

[brittanysmith18]

Maybe she's just scarred and not actually unhealthy? She is actually a lot thicker than other tangs I've seen, she just has very poor coloring. But like I said, she had ich horribly when I first got her, and she actually was basically dead and wouldn't move, wouldn't breathe, and every time she breathed she would spit out the white dots. It was bad. She scratched a lot then too, so maybe the scratching just ruined her scales?

[MandarinFan]

My hippo won't touch the green seaweed. We get the purple stuff in the silver package (blanking on the name) and he gobbles it up. Definitely try different brands and colors/flavours, but I would recommend purple based on my experience.

[stuifbol]

Are you running actived carbon,because that maybe the reason for the bad skin?
grtz
Maybe she's just scarred and not actually unhealthy? She is actually a lot thicker than other tangs I've seen, she just has very poor coloring. But like I said, she had ich horribly when I first got her, and she actually was basically dead and wouldn't move, wouldn't breathe, and every time she breathed she would spit out the white dots. It was bad. She scratched a lot then too, so maybe the scratching just ruined her scales?

[JohnniG]

Wow. That looks bad :(

[brittanysmith18]

I believe I am running active carbon, is there inactive carbon?? (because I didn't know and would definitely change). I know it looks bad, but sometimes she looks better, and others she doesn't. She LOVES spirulina though, but not seaweed. I'll try different seaweeds though, definitely..

Can you explain the active/inactive carbon??

[potterjon]

I believe lignite carbon is the problematic one, not all carbon.

[arkaeus]

Definitely don't enter it in any beauty contests, lol.
Not much you can do. Accept it for what it is.

This comment is priceless, had a good morning LOL with my coffee..

My powder blue wouldn't touch any type of seaweed... red, purple, green, pellets, or flakes.
I rubber banded some to a rock on the sand bed instead of the clip.... still nothing. Soaked it in Kent garlic Xtreme, and American Marine Selcon. 3 days after shyly swimming past it, he was nibbling. A week later a full sheet of green mixed with purple in gone in a few hours. The kent garlic drops and Selcon helped on my end.
I also would like to add, I have a yellow tang. The yellow was the first to start eating the seaweed rubber banded to the rock. I would notice the PBT watching him as he nibbled. I think this also helped.... /shrug

[brittanysmith18]

She nibbles at green seaweed, but quickly swims away from it after one or two nibbles.

[DustyReefer]

Well at least its starting to bite at the seaweed thats a good start. Also are you rinsing off your carbon well before putting it in your tank? That could be the source of the problem as well.

[stuifbol]

there is no inactive carbon.....
I asked the question because there are studies that prove that skin from sensitive fish like tangs gets deteriorated from the use off carbon....and also cause Head and line erosion
I would say try a month without using carbon and see what happens with the fish's skin....I believe I am running active carbon, is there inactive carbon?? (because I didn't know and would definitely change). I know it looks bad, but sometimes she looks better, and others she doesn't. She LOVES spirulina though, but not seaweed. I'll try different seaweeds though, definitely..

Can you explain the active/inactive carbon??

[brittanysmith18]

I do rinse off the carbon before using it. I will try some time without the carbon in it, and see what happens. Thanks for the advice!

[Triton_Z]

This comment is priceless, had a good morning LOL with my coffee..



I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking the same thing.

You could also try to feed some spirulina pellets if your tang likes pellets. There are a number of varieties from different places. I used to have some HBH brand soft pellets I liked, but no longer appears on Amazon. I am still looking for another source.

This species of tang appears sensitive to HLLE and all sorts of skin conditions. Mix up the diet and evaluate your activated carbon use as suggested.

[s_kelley]

Have you tried nori? Can get at any reputable lfs or Asian cuisene store. I haven't seen a tang that will pass up this stuff. Soak it in garlic and watch out! Good luck with that fish I think you just need to vary its diet more algae.

[brittanysmith18]

My tank hates pellets. I feed her spirulina flakes. I might start feeding them rotifers (clownfish breeding) and maybe she will take to that. I plan on getting some mysis shrimp soon. Do you do frozen or live mysis?

[upnext]

Try yhe seaweed with garlic and put it on a clip, at first he might ignore it but he will eat it . I have 15 tangs and that mainly what I feed them. Good luck

[brittanysmith18]

I'll try. Or I could just not feed them anything else and just leave the seaweed in there. I feel bad about doing that though.

[LobsterOfJustice]

I have seen this a lot in blue tangs, believe it or not I have even seen one much worse. Could be from several things:

1. Lack of greens in the diet (as others have said) or otherwise poor nutrition. Blue tangs are one of the tangs that are planktivores in nature unlike most other tangs, so it can be hard to get them to eat greens (and IMO, they are not as dependent on greens in their diet as other tangs for this reason).

2. HLLE from poor water quality and/or stress. I hate to bring this up on a tang thread, but... how big is the tank he is in? Also what are your water parameters. This is also what people were pointing to asking about the carbon as carbon use has been reported to cause HLLE (this is hardly still debated and plenty of people run carbon and are fine though).

3. Blue tangs are just stupid and they scratch themselves up. They wedge themselves under rocks, in tight spaces, etc. I used to work in a fish store and we stopped ordering them because they would come in, scratch themselves up, and then nobody would buy them. One of the reasons I'll never have this fish is I am particular about my fish looking "perfect" and that rarely seems to happen with blue tangs.

[Vlado4x4]

That looks like a really bad case of HLLE to me !! Look for stray voltage in your tank and put a ground probe as soon as you can.

Offer lots of greens in the diet and you´ll start to see some improvement over time. It takes a lot of time, but it heals perfectly.

[brittanysmith18]

I'll check for all..

My tank parameters are:

Nitrates/Ammonia: 0
Salinity 1.024
Temp: 82
Copper 0
Calcium 400

She gets a pretty varied diet from spirulina, krill, shrimp, seaweed, garlic pellets...
She does slide between my rocks constantly though. She slides under them, and she sometimes backs up into them. She looks like an idiotic fish because she's super hyper it seems.

[DustyReefer]

I have seen this a lot in blue tangs, believe it or not I have even seen one much worse. Could be from several things:

1. Lack of greens in the diet (as others have said) or otherwise poor nutrition. Blue tangs are one of the tangs that are planktivores in nature unlike most other tangs, so it can be hard to get them to eat greens (and IMO, they are not as dependent on greens in their diet as other tangs for this reason).

2. HLLE from poor water quality and/or stress. I hate to bring this up on a tang thread, but... how big is the tank he is in? Also what are your water parameters. This is also what people were pointing to asking about the carbon as carbon use has been reported to cause HLLE (this is hardly still debated and plenty of people run carbon and are fine though).

3. Blue tangs are just stupid and they scratch themselves up. They wedge themselves under rocks, in tight spaces, etc. I used to work in a fish store and we stopped ordering them because they would come in, scratch themselves up, and then nobody would buy them. One of the reasons I'll never have this fish is I am particular about my fish looking "perfect" and that rarely seems to happen with blue tangs.

The carbon in terms of HLLE is one of my bigger concerns, not saying that it's the cause. But if say you just took the carbon and placed it in the tank without thoroughly rinsing it all the particulate carbon washes right out and into the water, and that's why I could see it leading to HLLE. Also you brought up some other very valid points about stress and tank size. She says the hippo is always "hyper" maybe it's due to constrained tank size that's stressing the fish out. Also I agree that the hippo tangs don't rely on as much greens as most other tangs, and are much more carnivorous than most, but a complete lack of any greens in its diet could cause problems.

[brittanysmith18]

She's hyper when one of my other fish comes around her (fire goby), other than that she's happy just sliding between rocks. She's a very greedy eater though and will rapidly swim to get as much food as she can. She's not very big, but since I added more rock, she has become more hyper.

[ingtar_shinowa]

Bad HLLE!! soak all the food in Selcon and try some Formula 2 flakes soaked in order to get him liking greens more. After that soak nori cut into strips and that should get him weened onto better foods as well.

[brittanysmith18]

I do feed Formula 2 flakes currently. How do I test for HLLE?

[brittanysmith18]

Meaning... how do I get rid of it out of my tank, or know that's the cause..etc

[ingtar_shinowa]

HLLE (Head and Lateral Line Erosion) is a thing that happens to tang and some other sensitive fish in captivity. Some people blame poor diet, carbon dust, flow issues, and even the low level voltage in the tanks. I have found over the years, that any bit of erosion heals quickly when I feed food soaked in Selcon, which is a nutritional additive found in a small pink bottle.

My lavender Tang will get spots start to form, and when it first happened it looked like flesh eating bacteria, they call it "Hole in the Head Disease" as well. Selcon treated food fixed him after 3 weeks, and to be honest, I haven't seen any erosion in months. I think everyone should use Selcon additive for health, my reef club does now.

[brittanysmith18]

Will my LFS have selcon? I definitely feed my fish a very varied diet, and the water parameters and flow are decent, and I'm adding a powerhead as soon as it arrives in the mail thats 800gph, so my flow will be even better. I'm not sure about the voltage. I do use carbon in my filters to remove ammonia and they've always been great to me. I've gone a month or two without carbon when treating the fish with prazi-pro and I didn't notice a difference in the tangs appearance. I've been trying to help her since I got her. This HLLE thing is a new thing I just heard of today!

[ingtar_shinowa]

Ahhhh, yeah HLLE only afects one of my three tangs and that was mostly from December-May this year and I wasn't using carbon or having stray voltage. It IS however, a very real malady in tangs.

As for your LFS having it or not I don't know. Mine stores didn't carry it until I asked them to and started promoting it with my friends. After opening it needs to be refrigerated or it gets yucky, but it lasts a long time.

I dose .5ml into a shot glass with tank water and foods for about 10-15 minutes then feed.

[brittanysmith18]

Where else would I find it??

Also, how do I find out if I haves stray voltage. I mean I have a voltage finder, but what would I put the anode and cathode as??? Because I only want to mess with the carbon if it is the problem because the carbon has done wonders with ammonia levels.

[Ostara]

2. HLLE from poor water quality and/or stress. I hate to bring this up on a tang thread, but... how big is the tank he is in? Also what are your water parameters. This is also what people were pointing to asking about the carbon as carbon use has been reported to cause HLLE (this is hardly still debated and plenty of people run carbon and are fine though).


I also generally like to avoid this until at least other avenues have been explored, but in this case I think it may be relevant.

Is this your 55 gallon, and has the fish lived there for all four years? It could easily be a combination of factors... it's worth looking at all of them. Most fish with HLLE seem to have had poor diets, as mentioned. I can't really make out what yours eats exactly since it's spread across so many posts. Is it only flakes? No frozen, seaweed, or pellets? If the diet is adequate I would look at some of the other things mentioned: carbon usage (what brand do you use?), potential stress from tankmates, and yes, the size of the tank and rockwork/available swimming space.

Also, Selcon can be purchased online from Foster and Smith. It is always a good thing to have on hand.

[brittanysmith18]

It's diet consists of a mixture of flakes, frozen spirulina and krill, freeze dried shrimp, garlic pellets and green seaweed.

I use pre-built carbon filters that fit my filter system, probably Marineland I believe. The fish have not lived in this tank all 4 years. They were in a 12 gallon tank for the first few months (not all these fish as obviously that's way too many), I had the tang in the 12 gallon tank. I noticed the change in color back then. It progressed slowly over time. I will get Selcon ASAP then. I am trying everyone's suggestions as well as tomorrow I will test for stray voltage. I don't know how to set the probes though..

[brittanysmith18]

I want to try some mysis shrimp and rotifers as well. Frozen or live, I'm not sure. Rotifers, definitely live as they will be for clownfish breeding. Mysis maybe could be frozen. I would love to make a large purchase of Foster and Smith.. what color seaweed do you suggest for the tang? She doesn't seem to like the green unless I only feed her that for the whole day...

[brittanysmith18]

I looked into it, and noticed Foster and Smith sells reef carbon. Maybe if I try something that's more for a reef tank? I don't know how to do the whole build your own filters though as I use the ones pre-made in the store, size C...

[Ostara]

Ah okay, that makes it easier. Is the frozen spirulina brine shrimp? And are the pellets only garlic, or are they normal pellets with garlic added?

I'm not sure what type of carbon they use in those, but investing in a higher quality carbon is probably worth it as well. They have different varieties at Foster and Smith if you want to order some with your Selcon. You can purchase a media bag to put it in either on the site or from Petsmart. They're usually around $1.

The tank size could definitely be a factor too. She looks awfully small for over four years old. How big was she when you got her, and how big is she now? What have you noticed about her growth? (Fast, slow, bursts of growth?) I've had a blue tang in quarantine for three weeks so far that was dime-sized when I picked it up and is already noticeably larger. Blue tangs grow fast when they're young/small.

As for seaweed, I have green, brown, red, and purple. Some tangs prefer certain colors over others. I've never had a tang that didn't devour the red stuff like candy so I always have some of that on hand. I try to mostly feed green though simply because I can get big packages of it cheaply from Asian markets.

[Vlado4x4]

I had the same issue about a year ago.

This was the worst he got

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg411/scaled.php?server=411&filename=doris2.jpg&res=landing

And this pic was about 4 months ago.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg825/scaled.php?server=825&filename=dsc03447l.jpg&res=landing

[reeferstace]

I still have not seen the current tank size posted.

[ingtar_shinowa]

...omg, This tang really needs a 125 or bigger.

[Dr Colliebreath]

Brittany,

This looks like hlle. Hippo tangs are very susceptible to it and sometimes never overcome it. You also may have residual skin problems from when it was young as you note.

Hippo are not herbivores and they eat a lot of meaty foods. Continue trying other greens and seaweed but that likely is not your problem if the fish is eating Formula Two flakes each day. I also use Omega Veggie flakes. I would feed this fish better sources of meaty foods, including PE mysis, Hikari mysis (some fish eat one but not the other), chopped scallop, shrimp salmon and clam fresh from your grocery store, and NLS pellets. Also soak foods in Selcon.

I would remove the carbon for a couple of months. It isn't breaking ammonia down, although it does remove some other dissolved organic from the water. Your rock and protein skimmer handle the ammonia.

I think the problem is part diet and part stress. The fish sometimes being hyper may indicate the tank is too small. Is the rockwork open so that there is a lot of swimming room in the tank?

It might be a good idea to increase your water changes. How often do you do them and how much?

Are your nitrates zero? How do you test?

Your tank's temperature is on the high side. Not really a problem, but perhaps contributing to what is going on with the fish.

Get the fish high quality meaty foods, Selcon, no carbon, and lowered stress and the problem should clear up.

-

[brittanysmith18]

I bought the instant ocean seaweed blend today and I fed that to her. I feed them the ocean nutrition formula 1 flakes as well as spirulina flakes. There's PLENTY of swimming room with the rocks in there, the rocks aren't very big. I just added a wave maker power head in today to increase flow for my sea anemone. The fish aren't taking to it well so I might have to move it.

[CedzAquAddictio]

Mabye I missed it... What size is the tank???

[brittanysmith18]

55 gallons

[Dr Colliebreath]

How big is the fish? If more than around 3 1/2 inches, the tank is too small. I imagine the fish is larger than that because you describe it as thick and have had it for 4 years. At 4 years old or more, that fish should need a much larger tank. This is likely a large portion of your problem even if the rest of the fish's environment is excellent.

You should make sure the rest of your water conditions are top notch, give the fish quality meaty foods with Selcon, and find it a home in a bigger tank (at least a 180). They are just too active a swimmer to live for an extended period in a relatively smaller tank.

[CedzAquAddictio]

Sorry Brittany, but, he's right...

That fish has been lucky to live this long, and may have not been comfortable for it's entire lifespan... If it's any consolation, I am QT'ing all of my fish in a 55g tank right now (before they move to my MUCH larger DT), and the biggest fish is about 4 inches long. I can definitely see some stress in them from the size of the tank. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but, he may not be likely to recover in that size tank as that is probably his main source of stress leading to decreased health. That's kind of like treating an alcoholic in a liquor store or asking that you spend your entire life locked in your bedroom. What are the possibilities of a bigger tank? It'll be easier on the fish and you. I want a tang so bad right now, but, if I get another, I'll probably QT him in this tank either alone or with 2 much smaller fish (jawfish and goby for my pistol shrimp) tops...

Best of luck!!! Please keep us posted. Let's turn this situation around...

[brittanysmith18]

My tang isn't quite that big, it's around 3 inches now, but that's pushing it. I got it when it was like 3/4 of a inch long. I bought selcon, just have to wait for it to arrive in the mail.

None of my fish liked the seaweed blend I bought. :(

[CedzAquAddictio]

Hmmm. 3 inches seems kind of small for a tang of that age. Probably affected by the constraints of the size of the tank.

Tell us about your filtration. How big is your sump, what kind of protein skimmer, etc... How often do you change your water? A little worried about your water quality...

Can you post some pics? Like to see your layout of your entire system and tank. It'll help us help you out...

[reeferstace]

Please do this fish a favor and get it re-homed into an appropriately sized tank.

[brittanysmith18]

I'll post some pics in a bit. My water quality is perfect, with no ammonias or nitrates, and I keep the salinity and everything else in check. I don't do water changes that often, but I am doing one tomorrow. My tang is scratching right now which makes me wonder if I should move her to a quarantine tank...