Ecotech why so expensive?

[bigworm616]

This is more of a curiosity question, but why are they so expensive? I am looking for a powerhead for my 29gal and came across these. i have seen them on a number of aquariums. Still the prices are staggering for a powerhead. Why?

[KafudaFish]

Why are apple products so expensive?

[bigworm616]

thats a good answer. Also why i dont buy apple products.

[Allmost]

Kafudafish said it right ....

and there are alot of ppl using apple products, me included, apple is not lacking any sales to need to lower price to attract new customers :) that's the rights you get when you are the top in your market.

[celamb89]

I know, I feel the same way.. but either way they are great PH and plan on using them for my next build... they have some many functions, controls among other things that they are able to price them so high... I have heard they get noisy which makes me doubt given the high price

[t4zalews]

As a multiple vortech owner..for the high price...they should look into doing something to quiet the dry side. If they could fix that...I'm sure they're business would bump up considerably.

[chadfarmer]

they need a real controller

[Allmost]

As a multiple vortech owner..for the high price...they should look into doing something to quiet the dry side. If they could fix that...I'm sure they're business would bump up considerably.

price isnt really high .... tunze 6105 and controller is 417 bucks.
MP40 is 499.

but I agree, if they could make it quite, Id buy a bunch more ... but Id expect even higher price for it.

they need a real controller

what is unreal about their controller ?

[rrasco]

Hahaha....Apple is at the top of their game so they have the right to rip people off for crappy products? Okay... They are control freak con artists. The iPhone 5 finally has 4G...yeah, that's the top of the game for sure.

The answer to the price of products usually has to do with overhead and R&D. Things are not cheap to research or develop. Along with overhead such as manufacturing costs, distribution, sales, support, etc all factor into the cost of a product. Try to design one yourself, you'll see how expensive it gets.

On the other hand, some companies do enjoy price gouging.

[tkeracer619]

Why even compare it to apple? Thats a whole different kind of fruit because well, apple sells software, the hardware is identical. If you buy an iphone you bought a samsung. If you bought an iMac you bought an intel. You just paid double for it. Also, ask apple investors if they are on top of their game.

Vortechs have no competitor in regards to construction. Physically what sets them apart is there are no wires inside the tank and it is magnetically coupled. There are no others on the market like this.

Cost? They use much more more rare earth magnet material then typical prop pumps and the cost for that material for a while was growing exponentially. For example, when Ecotech first released the parts store I think the magnets were $10-15 each. Now they are $50 each. China has that market cornered and the price on the magnets alone drives the cost up further. They also have a lot more components then normal prop pumps. This means more molds, machining time, quality control, fitment, seconds that are thrown away, ect ect. In general its just a more complex device.

A real controller? Huh? You cannot be serious. Is that some lame attempt at a troll or did the rest of us miss something?

[James77]

Overhead, retail(probably about 20%),payroll, profit, advertising and marketing, insurances and taxes, actual materials, future warranty support and research and development. If they could sell the same power head for half the price and still cover what they do now, you can bet your butt they would. I wouldn't doubt their profit margins may be a smidge higher than some companies though I don't know. They aren't flying around in personal jets :). It is a fairly niche market also, it's not like they are selling millions. I'd be curious how many they have sold just for curiosity sake.

[chadfarmer]

Why even compare it to apple? Thats a whole different kind of fruit because well, apple sells software, the hardware is identical. If you buy an iphone you bought a samsung. If you bought an iMac you bought an intel. You just paid double for it. Also, ask apple investors if they are on top of their game.

Vortechs have no competitor in regards to construction. Physically what sets them apart is there are no wires inside the tank and it is magnetically coupled. There are no others on the market like this.

Cost? They use much more more rare earth magnet material then typical prop pumps and the cost for that material for a while was growing exponentially. For example, when Ecotech first released the parts store I think the magnets were $10-15 each. Now they are $50 each. China has that market cornered and the price on the magnets alone drives the cost up further. They also have a lot more components then normal prop pumps. This means more molds, machining time, quality control, fitment, seconds that are thrown away, ect ect. In general its just a more complex device.

A real controller? Huh? You cannot be serious. Is that some lame attempt at a troll or did the rest of us miss something?

1 controller would bring the price down

i dont like the controller, thats my opinion, would want more than 4 settings and pulse, maybe where you customize more

[bigpuffer1]

i own multiple mp40's and i am very happy with what i got for the money. i was so happy with the pumps i bought the radion led's and i am equally impressed. i can say this is a very tough crowd "reefers" when it comes to spending money and puting a value on a piece of equipment. we all know what we would like to pay but i think that anyone would agree if you had a product that was good and could get more money for it you would.

as for controllers i think eco tech prices will drop and i am willing to bet we will soon see a new line of vortech pumps we can custom program via computer interface like the light fixtures.

[MHG]

Basic laws of supply and demand... When demand is high prices are high. They are the only game in town which that type of product.... I am sure they will sue anyone who comes out with anything like it...


And the only way they are gonna fix their dry side or come out with a better controller is when sales are down or they lose market share...

Either way, I don't own an iPad3 because it is not worth 800 bucks no matter how good it it and I will never own an mp60 because it is not worth 700 bucks no matter how good it is.... I love my mp10 but I wish it was more quiet with a better controller...

Their new pro light is a grand.... If you buy a 300 gallon deep dimension tank that is 6k in lights.... Not worth it no matter how good it is...

But that's just me. As long as people buy their products they will keep the price high...

[bigpuffer1]

i have a oceanic 135 i bought 3 gen1 radions and did the TIR upgrade. i own them for around 2300.00 3 of them were too much light so i cut down to two. thats under thats around 1500 for a 6 foot tank and 250 watts of power consumption. i paid over 1000.00 for a oceanlight and 6 months later i spent over 300 in bulbs at almost 1000 watts power consumption. the inital investement in any high end equipment lighting pumps skimmers or even if it not reef related will be high but your overall expense will level out quickly.

[Laddy]

I'd be curious how many they have sold just for curiosity sake.

I wanna play! :)

[tkeracer619]

I wanna play! :)

You gotta pay to play ;)

Also a mp60 is worth every penny. I love mine. Best prop pump as far as I am concerned of all time. Then again everyone has their own scale of worth. I don't think $700 is unreasonable considering what I have invested in my system over the years.

I had 3 months this year with a power bill over $800 per month. At least I have something to show for the money I dropped on my mp60s.

[Terrance]

I keep hearing the noise problem by many people (yes I know everyone will have different noise tolerance). Will the vortechs become more quiet when set at lower flow?

[tkeracer619]

Yeah. They are silent under 70%. Really the only time you hear any noise is when you run it in wave mode which IMO is mostly useless and slightly annoying to the fish and reefer. It is great in nutrient transport mode where it creates a standing wave once in a while to shake detritus loose.

Real ocean surge does not look like a kid sloshing bathtub water. You will never get a real looking surge in a reef tank with a prop pump or wavebox.

[Prince916]

Its only expensive because people keeps on buyin it. If no one was to buy the product for 5-6months, stores would always have sales. Less demand = lower price.

[fishgate]

Why are they so high? Simple; people are willing to pay it.

I am waiting for the cheap Chinese knockoffs to hit the market. The price should then drop to a more reasonable level like well under $100.

[alton]

Why are they so high? Simple; people are willing to pay it.

I am waiting for the cheap Chinese knockoffs to hit the market. The price should then drop to a more reasonable level like well under $100.

Yea pretty soon the Chinese will have real nice aquariums and we won't have anything , because we won't have any jobs here in America anymore because we are so cheap! Think about it Toyotas are made in USA, GM, Ford and Dodge Made in Canada and Mexico. My MP 20 works great and no chance of ever leaking current into my tank and killing anything. For years people did not mind paying extra for good products.

[indyjaco]

I think their pumps are worth the money, I enjoy my MP40. The Lights... not so much.

[Tradewinds]

Yeah. They are silent under 70%. Really the only time you hear any noise is when you run it in wave mode which IMO is mostly useless and slightly annoying to the fish and reefer. It is great in nutrient transport mode where it creates a standing wave once in a while to shake detritus loose.

Real ocean surge does not look like a kid sloshing bathtub water. You will never get a real looking surge in a reef tank with a prop pump or wavebox.

Supposedly, you can replace the bearings to help reduce the noise level of these pumps. I wonder if Ecotech will ever offer Vortech Pro series, which would include better bearings and perhaps more programmability, for those who need it.

[Laddy]

I believe a lot of hobbyists ask too much from their ecotechs.....my truck starts to rattle and shake too at high speeds. People who don't want clutter in their tanks, but who are still trying to move a lot of water should really think about a closed-loop :eek2: I know the horror of "ancient" technology.

[WaterSkiier]

Closed loop it is hard to get a very random flow. It really is a problem to get random flow in hundreds of gallons for quiet and cheap :(

[usmc121581]

I believe a lot of hobbyists ask too much from their ecotechs.....my truck starts to rattle and shake too at high speeds. People who don't want clutter in their tanks, but who are still trying to move a lot of water should really think about a closed-loop :eek2: I know the horror of "ancient" technology.

I love my closed loop system, I have PVC pipes buried under the sand and some that pertrudes into the rock work and other places. Another good thing is the gaint pump is hiden away and canr be heard.

[bhazard451]

While it is not really needed, a GUI on some of their pump controllers or lights would be nice for a change. I hate not knowing which exact mode I'm in unless I remember key presses or watch/hear the "whoosh, whoosh" of NTM.

[ReachTheSky]

I think their pumps are worth the money, I enjoy my MP40. The Lights... not so much.
Pretty much on the same boat as Mr. indyjaco over here. I love my MP40's. There's nothing quite like them and I wouldn't trade them for anything. As for the Radion though, I'm sure it's a phenomenal product but it has failed to win me over. $750 per unit is just not reasonable for me (I need two) and unlike the Vortech which is utterly dominating the water flow market, there are other LED fixtures available that are matching wits with the Radion for much cheaper.

[grcforce327]

I would never give up my mp40's!I really like the different settings. As for the noise,if mine starts to make any slight noise,I give the wet side a good vinegar cleaning and the noise is gone.

[PrangeWay]

I believe a lot of hobbyists ask too much from their ecotechs.....my truck starts to rattle and shake too at high speeds.

Just for the record... My Tunzes (pair of 6105's) make no noise or rattle at all...

[Allmost]

Just for the record... My Tunzes (pair of 6105's) make no noise or rattle at all...

but its also twice the size of a MP40, has a wire inside the tank, and lacks the undertow ...

they each have advantages, and disadvantages. just like everything else in life :)

[potterjon]

My two mp 40's took the place of 5 koralia 4's and they use less energy and provide better flow. Worth every penny in my opinion. Customer support has been great with these guys also. That alone is worth money.

[potterjon]

Not to mention resale value if you want to sell them used and the ability to upgrade the old ones to eco smart. You don't ever see them last long in the for sale forum.

[James77]

Supposedly, you can replace the bearings to help reduce the noise level of these pumps. I wonder if Ecotech will ever offer Vortech Pro series, which would include better bearings and perhaps more programmability, for those who need it.

That would definitely be interesting. My main reason I will not have them on my tank is their noise. Were that eliminated, the choice would be much tougher between them and Tunze. Though I do like have the Tunze on the back angled inwards.

[Laddy]

Closed loop it is hard to get a very random flow. It really is a problem to get random flow in hundreds of gallons for quiet and cheap :(

You run the returns through seaswirls.

[Arnoldtatts]

I love the clean look and all the settings. My mp40 combined with radion LEDs are great combo. I wouldn't worry about noise at all. Just make sure its aligned properly and a vinegar now and then

[rrasco]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try the vortechs, but I need an MP40, or two. So that's $1000 for powerheads. Ouch.

[bhazard451]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try the vortechs, but I need an MP40, or two. So that's $1000 for powerheads. Ouch.

Lots of used ones pop up in the ~$350 range here. Saves quite a bit of money.

[Laddy]

Not to mention resale value if you want to sell them used and the ability to upgrade the old ones to eco smart. You don't ever see them last long in the for sale forum.

This is a very good point as well.

Tunzes has a great product line; have and will in the future use them for certain applications.......the only brand loyalty I have in this hobby is with Euro Reef, aka Reef Dynamics, but thats an entirely different thread. :hmm3:

[JER-Z]

My mp10 is probably the biggest piece of junk I have bought for my tank in years. I will never buy another one. The bearings are shot and it sounds like an RC airplane. I put it on the frag tank in the garage but I can still hear it in my living room. There is no way I could use it indoors.


It will cost about $100 to get the dry side replaced. I'm not going to invest that much more money on this piece of garbage. It's going to the scrap heap when it dies.


To answer the OP question, I have no idea why they are so expensive. Overpriced crap that constantly needs maintenance, attention, and replacement parts.


Save yourself time, money, and sanity and go with tunze. I have some 7 year old tunze streams running like they did the day I bought them. Completely silent with the original parts.

[Allmost]

I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to try the vortechs, but I need an MP40, or two. So that's $1000 for powerheads. Ouch.

are you using tunze now ?

unless you are using korallia, it will cost about the same.

[rrasco]

Lots of used ones pop up in the ~$350 range here. Saves quite a bit of money.

I keep an eye out, but that's still a good chunk of change to throw around. I could get some really nice corals for $350...

are you using tunze now ?

unless you are using korallia, it will cost about the same.

I am using koralias. I have one 1400 and two 1050s. Tried the Magnum 8 but it was way too much...LOL.

[plasma327]

I have the MP10. It is silent and works great!

[mussel and hate]

This is more of a curiosity question, but why are they so expensive? I am looking for a powerhead for my 29gal and came across these. i have seen them on a number of aquariums. Still the prices are staggering for a powerhead. Why?

Patent law and patent lawyers.

[Tank2379]

High prices but if something goes wrong with the unit it's not there problem because of wear and tear after 2 months of use I've already have to replace both shafts and my MP 10's they both sound loud and horrible even scaring my fish and all they could say was yeah thats not covered when I called cusotmer service

[JonnyD91]

High prices but if something goes wrong with the unit it's not there problem because of wear and tear after 2 months of use I've already have to replace both shafts and my MP 10's they both sound loud and horrible even scaring my fish and all they could say was yeah thats not covered when I called cusotmer service

I cant/dont believe this. Out of every manufacture of equipment for my tank ecotech has the BEST customer service. If you are within the year warranty they will replace anything. My shafts were borked and they sent me 2 brand new wet sides free. Power supply died, free. After those hicups i have them running nonstop 3 years and don't even clean them. Yes the vibrate a little but i could also take better care of them.