SPS won't grow

[Sander_Bos]

Hello All,

I searched around the forum looking for a answer to my question, but didn't found it.
I have a few SPS corals in my tank for almost 3 months. The polyps are extended and they are (I think) doing well, but they're not growing :(
My SPS:
-Seriatopora Caliendrum (Green and Blue)
-Blue/pink Acropora
-Montipora digitata
-Acropora Millepora
-Montipora superman

Parameters:
pH: 8.3 (Sera)
KH: 8 (Sera)
NO3: 0 (Sera)
PO4: 0 (Sera)

Mg: 1500 (Salifert)
Ca: 500 (Salifert)

I know my Mg and Ca are not on the 'perfect' parameters, but does that have so much influence on the corals?

I'm running 100% LED. I have 24 Cree 3 Watt leds. 10 XP-G White and 14 XP-E Royal Blue on a 28 gallon tank.

Regards,

Sander

[rhino509]

in me experience a good balance is better than exact numbers....as long as my tank keeps a balance i dont bother chasing numbers (especially stuff like ph,as long as its close and its stable..)

[mandarinfanatic]

calcium and kh imbalance will cause ph to be too low. calcium multiplied by three gives correct mag and if you divide cal by factor of 42 it will give u correct kh.

sent from my galaxy s3

[maxwell86]

if sps won't grow there're probably 2 main reasons:
1. your light does not provide with enough PAR, my tank has simular size of yours, but i use 30x 3watts led with lenses mounted, even that, my sps didn't grow before I mount the lenses! And after I installed the lenses the sps started to grow and color changed right a way. BTW my water level is 45cm.

2.If the system is not stable, the sps won't grow either, it's true that your calcium is a bit high, but as long as it's stable, there's no problem, so try to make very thing stable!!

[stevedola]

NSW has a calc of 420 and alk of 7 mag of 1280...not sure about dividing calc number by 42 to get the correct alk reading. Ive never heard that could be true but that would mean that NSW is out of balance.

As for parameters: I would suggest getting your levels consistent. IMO your readings are too high but if they are consistent the corals should be showing siugns of growth. If they have been up and down then it maybe time to try to SLOWLY change things up and drop the levels to something more in line with 450-9-1350 by doing water changes until you achieve your number. Dont do it all at once. A couple of Water changes with decreased levels should lower the parameters. Then just be diligent at keeping the levels stable.

[stevedola]

good read for water chemistry info
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[racedout]

Phosphates

[westreef]

Double check your phosphate level with another test kit. Phosphate high could impede growth.

[stevedola]

its states 0

[jlv0lpk]

How are the color's of your colors?

If your colors are pale (even pasty looking) and you trust your test kits, you might not have enough nutrients.

I would also look into the stability of your parameters salinity (measure with refractometer), and temp.

as stevedola mention's parameters can be corrected with water changes.

[yt8181]

Im thinking that if its your sps thats not growing it may have to do with your LED set up! The par may not be ideal for sps, try to get ahold of a underwater par meter and test! LED seems to work for some people but the most ideal lighting for light loving SPS corals are MH light! You may want to move them closer to the crest of the water! MG and Ca are pretty high, try to let them come down slowly over the next few weeks to more normal levels, Mg 1350 and Ca 420-450.

[deepseadan]

It's funny how sps questions always create a bunch of responses that sound like guesses. I'll add my guess, your LEDs are not providing the proper spectrum needed for you sps. If you're like me, you will be pushed to the limit on patience and money before you finally realize what you were doing wrong. Be careful what you try, many people on these forums just regurgitate things they've heard from others and are completely wrong. My advice to you, only make one minor change at a time and eventually you will succeed. I did.

[Dapg8gt]

^^ this is true LOL..

Im strongly guessing that At 100% power on 24 LEDs over that size tank PAR is not the issue..

Get your parameters stable and within reccomended ranges not allowing them to drift too much will do wonders for SPS.. that last part is not a guess LOL.. Good luck

[yt8181]

^^ this is true LOL..

Im strongly guessing that At 100% power on 24 LEDs over that size tank PAR is not the issue..

Get your parameters stable and within reccomended ranges not allowing them to drift too much will do wonders for SPS.. that last part is not a guess LOL.. Good luck

YES stable parameters from my expirience are the key to most all sps problems! Most sps will adapt to their environment (flow, lighting, ect) Just keep the parameters in range and consistant and good things will come!!! Good luck

[power boat jim]

If the coral has good color, good polyp extension and is not showing signs of stress, it eventually will grow. It may be adjusting to the lighting or some other change in its environmental parameters. Lack of growth doesnt mean something is wrong. It may take several more weeks or even months for the coral to adjust to your tank. Patients is a big part of this hobby.

[Sander_Bos]

Wow, Thanks all for your helpfull answers!
I think I can find the solution now

Merci beaucoup :P

[michael.lemke]

In my experience the stability of the params (alk, cal, magnesium) have more to do with health of corals than anything else. As long as light and water movement, temp are adequate the params are most important.

That being said, I think your params are the more important with led's than other lighting. Meaning, with less broad a spectrum the params need to be spot on. Just my theory, no proof. I just have noticed that people with awesome tanks that switch to led still have awesome tanks. People with ok tanks that switch to led end up being disappointed.

[bangai64]

Water Flow...

[FragBuddy]

Ca should be atleast 420 and mag 1400..strong water flow

[MHG]

Well having started two threads on this and participated in several more, i can say there are some answers on reefcentral. But next time use google to search reefcentral... You get much better results.

I had the exact same issue. However how old it your tank and tell us about your lights. Also is the color good? Are you supplementing anything? Are you running pellets, zeovite, prodibio or some other carbon method? How often do you feed your fish? What kind of sand bed?


Anyway you are starving your corals. Zero nitrates will get you no growth (assuming your lights have enough par). You are running ULN as I was.... I started feeding 5 times a day and target feeding my corals every other day and once my nitrates hit .25...boom... Daily growth. Keep your nitrates low but not zero and your growth will take off... Also dose some amino acids but be careful...

Once your nitrates come up, back off on your feeding. It took me two months of heavy feeding to get them to come up...

I also have a shallow sand bed and vacuum it weekly and that helped as well to get rid of any trapped phosphates...

[mandarinfanatic]

phosphates being too high limits sps growth however to achieve growth you should not run phosphates at zero as photosynthetic bac need it. however the main reasons sps dont grow is kh being too low. there is research that has shown to increase growth kh needs to be higher. the recommended ratios for growth are as follows. cal minimum 420ppm magnesium must be minimum of three times cal so on 420 magnesium must be min 1260ppm. if calcium is 450 ppm then magnesium should be 1350. correct kh for 420 would be a kh of 10. and for a 450 ppm calcium it would be a kh of approx 11.3. read redsea research.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/11/3yme5edu.jpg look at blue acro top left and then second pic four months later http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/11/tehuzeda.jpg

[Bugger]

Your water is too clean, no fish and no nitrates to grow the coral.

[karsseboom]

phosphates being too high limits sps growth however to achieve growth you should not run phosphates at zero as photosynthetic bac need it. however the main reasons sps dont grow is kh being too low. there is research that has shown to increase growth kh needs to be higher. the recommended ratios for growth are as follows. cal minimum 420ppm magnesium must be minimum of three times cal so on 420 magnesium must be min 1260ppm. if calcium is 450 ppm then magnesium should be 1350. correct kh for 420 would be a kh of 10. and for a 450 ppm calcium it would be a kh of approx 11.3. read redsea research.http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/11/3yme5edu.jpg look at blue acro top left and then second pic four months later http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/05/11/tehuzeda.jpg

Thats complete false. a KH anywhere above 6.5 should be fine. There is no reason to rasie the KH above that. Most of the reefers are carbon dosing nowadays and can't rasie the KH above 8DKH or the corals will show signs of STN or burnt tips. Would you suggest zeovit users tor rasie there KH to increase growth? They seem to have pretty good growth already with low numbers.

[mandarinfanatic]

Thats complete false. a KH anywhere above 6.5 should be fine. There is no reason to rasie the KH above that. Most of the reefers are carbon dosing nowadays and can't rasie the KH above 8DKH or the corals will show signs of STN or burnt tips. Would you suggest zeovit users tor rasie there KH to increase growth? They seem to have pretty good growth already with low numbers.

you go with that. try reading info on redsea supplements website. they have research labs testing this stuff. your comments are anecdotal at best.

[mandarinfanatic]

ps running your kh at 6.5 is living on the edge. kh is called BUFFER for a reason. run it too low and it cannot buffer efficiently. do some research on how kh levels affect growth.

[mandarinfanatic]

http://www.google.co.za/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDUQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.redseafish.com%2Fuploadimages%2FProducts%2520brochures%2FRCP%2520Brochure%2F992 51%2520RCP%2520Brochure%2520Eng%25204W.pdf&ei=nWiPUaTCEdGS0QX4yoGIAQ&usg=AFQjCNFyEbm-5wgnks90v77M02ObVCZ4FA&sig2=6s53lS4KqR_RgEF1nLRC1Q

[mandarinfanatic]

www.redseafish.com

[jerpa]

I'm sorry but I would take information from a manufacturer with a very large grain of salt. Portraying a brochure attempting to sell supplements as some sort of guide to SPS health is misleading. It cited not one scientific source. The only "data" provided was a stylized graph showing growth rate on a birdsnest. I have seen far too many tanks with incredible growth AND color at varying alkalinity levels to put much stock in it.

[mandarinfanatic]

I'm sorry but I would take information from a manufacturer with a very large grain of salt. Portraying a brochure attempting to sell supplements as some sort of guide to SPS health is misleading. It cited not one scientific source. The only "data" provided was a stylized graph showing growth rate on a birdsnest. I have seen far too many tanks with incredible growth AND color at varying alkalinity levels to put much stock in it.

no probs go with what you want to follow. there is also non manufacturer research showing that kh is the major growth factor. when i have time i will find the research for you.

[mandarinfanatic]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

[epicurus84]

Im thinking that if its your sps thats not growing it may have to do with your LED set up! The par may not be ideal for sps, try to get ahold of a underwater par meter and test! LED seems to work for some people but the most ideal lighting for light loving SPS corals are MH light! You may want to move them closer to the crest of the water! MG and Ca are pretty high, try to let them come down slowly over the next few weeks to more normal levels, Mg 1350 and Ca 420-450.
This part about LEDs is bullshit. Led's will grow SPS corals. Just as wel or better then MH/T5 fixtures. LEP (plasma) works even better.

It can't be that i can run SPS's under LED and others can't. Just because of LEDs. Those who start with LED and can't grow SPS need to look at the other parts of the tank. Or the LED's aren't good enough. The last part is like hanning a 150 W MH at 1m high to light a 4x4 feet tank.

My corals seem to grow better at 410 Ca, and 1300 MG with a KH of around 7.5.

Every system is different. Don't stare too much at the numbers. Also keep it stable thats most important.

[jerpa]

I know increasing alkalinity can increase growth in certain systems. I also know that increasing alkalinity can lead to tissue loss in other systems. A dKh of 8 will not cause a complete lack of growth due to low alkalinity though. I merely think portraying a Red Sea brochure as though it were a scientific paper to refute someone else's "anecdotal" evidence is a bit misleading.

[mandarinfanatic]

I know increasing alkalinity can increase growth in certain systems. I also know that increasing alkalinity can lead to tissue loss in other systems. A dKh of 8 will not cause a complete lack of growth due to low alkalinity though. I merely think portraying a Red Sea brochure as though it were a scientific paper to refute someone else's "anecdotal" evidence is a bit misleading.

jerpa read the randy farley holmes article i posted the link to and tell me if that is misleading too.

[mandarinfanatic]

I know increasing alkalinity can increase growth in certain systems. I also know that increasing alkalinity can lead to tissue loss in other systems. A dKh of 8 will not cause a complete lack of growth due to low alkalinity though. I merely think portraying a Red Sea brochure as though it were a scientific paper to refute someone else's "anecdotal" evidence is a bit misleading.
increasing alkalinity will lead to growth if all perameters are in the correct ratios. as specified earlier. if you increase kh to facilitate growth you need to have a phosphate level of 0.08 and a nitrate of three to allow the growth remembering some phosphates are needed for cell formation and some nitrates to feed the photosynthetic bacteria in sps. if you increase kh in a system with no nitrates and phosphates then the outer tissue on an sps will tear and if there is no phophate to assist growth then the coral will expel excess photosynthetic bacteria and bleach and if it still doesnt get nutrients in small amounts it will rtn from the base

[RynosReef]

Hey Sander :) It sounds like your params are within an acceptable range. Is your magnesium actually 1500, or higher? I know certain test kits don't read any higher than 1500, so depending on your kit, you may have higher mag than that but can't test for it. You're calcium is also a little high. You haven't mentioned anything about your flow. This is very important. Also what is your salinity? How do you manage it? On a 28 gallon tank this is very important.

As long as your corals have polyp extension and no tissue loss I wouldn't sweat slow growth too much. Have your corals puddled at the bottom into the live rock? This can take a while. I've had corals that puddled for over a year before any vertical growth. All you should focus on is getting your params in the proper range and then keeping them there, consistently. I suggest keeping your alk at a level that can allow for mistakes. Keeping it on the low end such as 7 doens't leave you much room for error, especially in a 28 gallon tank where stability is especially difficult.

Good luck and happy reefing!

[nbgen12]

increasing alkalinity will lead to growth if all perameters are in the correct ratios. as specified earlier. if you increase kh to facilitate growth you need to have a phosphate level of 0.08 and a nitrate of three to allow the growth remembering some phosphates are needed for cell formation and some nitrates to feed the photosynthetic bacteria in sps. if you increase kh in a system with no nitrates and phosphates then the outer tissue on an sps will tear and if there is no phophate to assist growth then the coral will expel excess photosynthetic bacteria and bleach and if it still doesnt get nutrients in small amounts it will rtn from the base

Jerpa was basically saying the same thing as you, with less detail...