Do you I treat new fish. Even without signs of problem

[Jjtaylor62083]

Okay so have the qt setup do I treat all new fish, even though I dont seeing a sign of trou.ble. preventative? and what do I treat with

[Northside Reef]

IMO the importance of a QT tank is to monitor the fish, and ensure it is eating well. I would not treat a fish unless I knew what I was treating it for.

[jimbo78]

imo the importance of a qt tank is to monitor the fish, and ensure it is eating well. I would not treat a fish unless i knew what i was treating it for.

+1

[chirojosh]

Im in the other camp. I treat all new incoming fish as if they are carrying ich. Ive Qt'd fish in the past for several months with no apparent disease. Added them as a first fish to a newly cycled tank only to see them infested with ich. I believe a QT is less stressful than most DT's due to less disolved organics, less competion and territorial disputes. A fish with ich could live under these conditions for months or even years without showing signs. Ive used the watch and observe method of QT and its failed me several times. I now use tank transfer, cupramine, or a combo of both in sequence. Actice QT or nothing!

[Slystone]

After having a fish die in qt without appearing sick, i am now treating with prazipro. It is so cheap and doesn't require anything special.

[aandfsoccr04]

Some people do and some people don't. I will treat with prazi pro regardless of visibility of disease. It's not really hard on the fish. I won't treat for anything else unless signs of disease ensue.

[MuffsAbby]

some people do and some people don't. I will treat with prazi pro regardless of visibility of disease. It's not really hard on the fish. I won't treat for anything else unless signs of disease ensue.

+1

[Sk8r]

just observe for 4 weeks. The reasons not to treat 1) hard on fish to treat them 2) treatments aren't compatible (if you treat for the wrong thing and the fish has something else, you'll have a real mess.)

[Jjtaylor62083]

What does prazi pro cover as far as diseases

[johnwick]

I never treat unless I know exactly what I'm treating for. Treatment can be very hard on the fish. I just observe for 2-4 weeks in QT.

[wooden_reefer]

A tank is a closed system so pathogen-host relatiopn is fundamentally changed.

Some diseases such as ich has to be eradicated and all new fish have to be presumed to have it.

I always treat against ich irrespective of sign. 12 weeks min active treatment, absolute.

But I do not routinely treat against bacterial infection when there is no sign of it.

I also routinely treat against the larger parasites. When a fish eats well, it is best to treat with food whenever possible.

[Palting]

For those that simply observe, what do you observe? Can you list the signs and symptoms of all the diseases and parasites, subtle ones as well as obvious ones?

Let's keep it simple: What are the signs and symptoms of Ich infestation? Of an Ich carrier? In the absence of signs and symptoms after a 4 week observation, can the fish still carry Ich?

Here's another question. What are the chances that the average hobbyist (translation: non-biologist, non-marine expert, not a disease expert) can miss the subtle signs of disease by simple observation?

Anyone can obviously can do anything they think is right, just wanted to make sure they know WHY it's right.

[wooden_reefer]

Consider how fundamentally a closed system changes pathogen-host relation.

Consider the impact of closed system on lack of previous exposure of some strains of bacteria and viruses.

CLOSED SYSTEM

LACK OF PREVIOUS EXPOSURE FOR BACTERIA AND VIRUSES.

These are two factors that an aquarist should be profoundly aware of.

[Ostara]

Some diseases such as ich has to be eradicated and all new fish have to be presumed to have it.


This is exactly how I feel. I have seen how fish can appear clean but carry ich in their gills and do not take chances with it. I treat all fish with four weeks of Cupramine and two rounds of praziquantel. I have never seen a fish act adversely to or be stressed by either of these treatments, so I do not have the slightest compunction in using them both regardless of how healthy the fish appears.

[Deinonych]

I am new to this hobby, so take my opinion for what it is worth. I view quarantine and treatment no differently than bringing home a new cat or dog. We always vaccinate and treat our pets for know "at-risk" diseases or parasites (rabies, heartworms etc.) so they don't have problems. Therefore, I plan to proactively treat all my new aquatic pets for parasites as well. An ounce of prevention and all that.

The post above regarding the average aquarist's ability to assess disease is spot on, IMO.

[MrTuskfish]

I am new to this hobby, so take my opinion for what it is worth. I view quarantine and treatment no differently than bringing home a new cat or dog. We always vaccinate and treat our pets for know "at-risk" diseases or parasites (rabies, heartworms etc.) so they don't have problems. Therefore, I plan to proactively treat all my new aquatic pets for parasites as well. An ounce of prevention and all that.
.

Good comparison. Plus, fish can carry parasites/diseases that can kill all members of the new "household".

I treat all new fish with Cupramine, have for many years and haven't seen any protozoan parasites in my tanks since I started this. I also treat with Prazi-pro (or equivalent ) for flukes and other worms. Many folks are uncomfortable with copper and there is so much mis-information about copper around that I can see why. (Including the label on Cupramine, IMO). I think a good, safe, easy compromise protocol would be two rounds of Prazi-Pro for worms/flukes and tank-transfer for ich. Ich is by far the most common protozoan parasite. TT is (IMO & IME) safe, well tolerated, and idiot-proof. I keep fish in my QT a minimum of 6 weeks. If I'm going to lose a fish; I sure want it to be in the QT. BTW; I sure don't think a QT is a "stressful" place, quite the opposite.

[johnwick]

Does anyone do a good freshwater dip anymore? I've found it to be very effective (as far as I know)...

[wooden_reefer]

I am new to this hobby, so take my opinion for what it is worth. I view quarantine and treatment no differently than bringing home a new cat or dog. We always vaccinate and treat our pets for know "at-risk" diseases or parasites (rabies, heartworms etc.) so they don't have problems. Therefore, I plan to proactively treat all my new aquatic pets for parasites as well. An ounce of prevention and all that.

The post above regarding the average aquarist's ability to assess disease is spot on, IMO.

Actually, aquatic animals are more intimately affected by water than land animals are by air.

Water, because of its much greater inertia, has much greater power to disperse. Pathogens are less likely to be confined into certain space but will more likely be dispersed.


Plus, because solubility of oxygen is very low in water, aquatic animals have to be exposed to water more profoundly. Just imagine the volume of air that has to go thru lungs vs the volume of water that has to go thru gills to extract the same amount of oxygen.

Water integrates the life of an aquatic animal more so than air does to land animals.

[sleepydoc]

Consider how fundamentally a closed system changes pathogen-host relation.

Consider the impact of closed system on lack of previous exposure of some strains of bacteria and viruses.

CLOSED SYSTEM

LACK OF PREVIOUS EXPOSURE FOR BACTERIA AND VIRUSES.

These are two factors that an aquarist should be profoundly aware of.

Not sure what you mean about lack of previous exposure to bacteria and viruses; most fish are wild caught and you really don't know what they've been exposed to.

Either way, like you said, a closed aquarium system does increase the risk for infection and transmission of diseases. The fish are living in closer proximity and the if a pathogen is present, the 'concentration per gallon' is much higher.

[wooden_reefer]

"Not sure what you mean about lack of previous exposure to bacteria and viruses; most fish are wild caught and you really don't know what they've been exposed to"

I mean exposure to the strain of pathogenic bacteria.

[jhaimes]

what is tank transfer?

[jduck]

Everyone gets 10 days of chloroquine phosphate and
2 rounds of prazi pro. Sometimes prazi pro first.

[solitude]

Good water quality. Minimize any kind of stress.

[wooden_reefer]

Good water quality. Minimize any kind of stress.

For certain diseases, stress is practically not a factor. Fish gets sich from these diseases fundamentally because of the closed system, the lack of dilution. Protozoan diseases like ich and oodinum are such.

Too blanket a belief in the relationship between stress and disease manifestation is a major misconception and cause of failure in this hobby.

[Jjtaylor62083]

Thanks for your help and opinions

[Deinonych]

Everyone gets 10 days of chloroquine phosphate and
2 rounds of prazi pro. Sometimes prazi pro first.

Do you find that chloroquine phosphate is more effective than copper? How do you test to ensure you have the correct dosage?