Plumbing Question - Durso/Herbie

[DUPioneers]

Ok. So. I posted the following in the DIY Forum with no responses. Apparently, my glaring lack of expertise in tank plumbing systems is insulting to the folks who hangout over there. So, I'm trying here.

Anyway. Here goes.

Apologies in advance for my ignorance.....but hopefully I can tap everyone's expertise, here before I make a mistake that will cost me (more) time and money!!!

I have a 180 gallon that I'm in the process of setting up. The tank will be on the main floor of my house, with a basement sump/fuge set up. The head I'm dealing with is approximately 13', and, thanks to my handy Makita sawzall and a well-placed hole in my floor (that was a fun conversation to have with my wife...), I will have no horizontal pipe runs in my system.

The tank itself is a standard AGA reef ready tank, with dual overflows and 2 drilled bulkheads in the bottom of each overflow. Each side has a 1" bulkhead and a 3/4" bulkhead, installed.

Everything is dry at the moment and I have few preconceived notions of how I should set the plumbing up, save for the fact that I want the return to go up over the back of the tank into dual 1" sea swirls.

So...with those parameters in mind, here are my questions:

1) The guy I got the tank from had an air-assisted drain system (Durso) set up in each overflow (I have the standpipes), but after much research, it appears I'd be better served implementing a dual full-siphon Herbie-style system with dual emergency drains. Should I dump the Durso and go to a Herbie system?

2) If I go Herbie, which bulkheads should be the main, and which should be the emergency? I'm ASSUMING that the 1"s would be the main and the 3/4"s would be the emergency, but I could be persuaded that I have this wrong...

3) Should the drains be discreet from one another from tank to sump, or is it OK to tie them both into the same, say 1.5", line? If the drain line is tied together, I'm assuming that I'd still want to have a gate valve on each drain so that I can tune the siphons independently of one another?

And...

4) What am I missing here? What other questions should I be asking? What pitfalls do I need to watch out for?

Thanks in advance, everyone...this forum is a lifesaver!!!

[Palting]

Never let it be said that your questions are insulting :) . Here's my .02c, take it for what it's worth as I went with the dual durso for my 150.

1. You've already decided on dual Herbie's and over the back returns. Go with it.
2. I agree, and would use the larger one 's for the main and the smaller ones for backup.
3. The concept as I understand it behind the herbie is that the main drain is completely water filled, no air at all, so that there is no gurgling noise. Therefore, the main drain and the emergency drains have to be completely separate all the way down to the sump. Otherwise, the emergency drains will siphon air into the main drain, causing noise. As I said, take this with a grain of salt as I have Durso drains.
4. Can't think of any.

HTH!!

[hillscp]

A Herbie is a great system (I have one my self). Now if I were you and had it to do over I would tear out the overflows and make a coast to coast bean animal. That would open up your tank.

But this is a discussion about a Herbie. I use the 1" for the main and the 3/4 for the safety. I might get an argument about that.

You can't tie a main to a safety because it would kill the siphon but you could tie the two Mains together.

You should put a gate valve on each main. Leave the safety open.

I run the returns up over the back and it rocks!

Zero bubbles, zero noise, no hassle.

[StevieD]

Theres never an insulting question in this hobby...a question not asked can lead to very expensive mistakes... In your situation, I would run both 1" drains independantly down to the sump using a herbie setup...use GATE valves on the drains, no ball valves, run both 3/4" emergencies down to the sump independantly, run returns over the back, or drill new returns and go through the glass for the clean look...get yourself one hell of a pump and get to reefin'

[DUPioneers]

Awesome. Thanks for all of your input.

A quick note - I've never thought about tying the emergencies and the mains together - just the two mains. I can't see how that would cause a problem, particularly since I'd be going from 1" pipes into a 1.5" pipe, but I'm not a hydrodynamic engineer, so I wasn't sure...

Anyway. Thanks again for the input!!!

[hillscp]

People do tie them together but I didn't and it works fine. Some people say its hard to balance them separately but that's not my experience. When it looks like they need adjusting it is always because my pump needs cleaned or there is crud in the suction screen. I can't even imagine the mess a Durso would make with a 13' drop. You're gonna need to throttle down the siphon a lot I think.