Ph level 7.8

[Kayezz]

My tank has been set up for 2 months now, I have a 29 gal FOWLR 1 Sebae Clown, 4 hermit crabs, 1 chocolatechip starfish.
My Ph is 7.8, everything else reads fine, is this a concern? Should I add PH up ? Please advise....Thanks!!

[MalHavoc]

pH up is a temporary solution to the issue. What is your alkalinity? What are your other measurements that "read fine". Please be specific.

How are you measuring your pH? Most test kits are subjective at best.

[Kayezz]

Ammonia reads 0, Nitrtires 0, Nitrates5.0, Spacific Gravity 1.023

[MalHavoc]

You didn't tell me what your alkalinity is, or how you are measuring pH.

[Kayezz]

My test kit does not include a alkalinity test, I use drops to test ph and compair the color to a color chart.

[MalHavoc]

You need to test your alkalinity. It is important, since alkalinity is a measure of how well your pH is buffered, and when alkalinity is high, pH is more resistant to change. I would also suggest bringing a water sample into your local fish store and having them do a test for you as well. "Drop by drop" pH test kits are notoriously inaccurate, and you might be worrying about nothing.

[Kayezz]

My LFS only carries the "drop by drop" test kits. What other kits are there?

[DgenR8]

PH, ALk. and Ca. are all relative to each other. If your Ca. is high, Alk. will be low. Low ALK. will cause low PH, as Alk. is the measurement of your system's ability to resist change in PH.

[DgenR8]

For testing ALK. and CA. you are best off to use a tried and trusted test kit from Salifert. I monitor PH with an electronic monitor.
Salifert may/maynot be available at your LFS. I believe you can order Salifert test kits from www.marinedepot.com

[Bass Master]

Don't forget magniesium. Magniesium needs to be in check so calcium has something to "grab"on to. Once this is in check your ph should/will fall into place. I drip "kalk" (Balls pickling lime) to keep alk in check. Also I use Kent"s turbo calcium to get levels where I want them and use the kalk to maintain them. Dripping kalk also precipates phosphates. Good Luck.

[DgenR8]

To really get a handle on this whole Ca. ALK. PH Magnesium thing, check out Dr. Farley's forum here at RC. There are many threads/articles where he goes into great depth explaining the relationship, and best means of maintaining correct levels.


http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=1&forumid=112

[aquaman67]

7.8 is low, but not a crisis.

Here are some other things it could be.

Is your tank covered with glass tops? CO2 builds up in tanks that are covered. Point a powerhead to break the surface and remove the glass top. See if your pH changes.

Also, do you keep your house sealed up? If you don't let enough fresh air in, your house can build up CO2 too. Might want to open a window for a while.

One last thing, when are you testing? pH is lowest first thing in the morning and highest right before lights out. Test it in the evening and it may be higher.

Seachem makes buffers that you can add to your make up water that will raise pH and Alk.

[mb4000]

If your house is building up CO2 then I would be more worried about your own life then the PH in your tank.:D :rolleyes:

Do you have enough circulation around your rocks? Do youmdo water changes ? The more info you can give about your tank and maint, the better we can help you.

[DgenR8]

CO2 building up in a closed house is actually very common, especially in today's very tight homes, and yes, it can definitely cause issues with keeping PH up in your tank. The glass tops are also notorious for for lowering PH and raising heat!
Aquaman's point regarding what time of day you test is also very valid. That's why I sprung for an electronic monitor. It cost me a little over $100.00, but I now know exactly where my PH is at any time of the day by just glancing up at the monitor. I believe it was money well spent, as PH problems are an indication of deeper troubles in your system.

[mb4000]

CO2 build up in the house will not be a problem. If CO2 becomes a problem then the inhabitents will be passed out on the floor.

[DgenR8]

Low PH in your tank will show up long before CO2 buildup in your house will be problematic to humans, not to mention that most humans do leave their house on occasion, and breathe fresh air, your tank doesn't have that luxury.

[Kayezz]

Wow , so much to learn, my LFS told me nothing about all that. Thanks a million!!

[mb4000]

Originally posted by DgenR8
Low PH in your tank will show up long before CO2 buildup in your house will be problematic to humans, not to mention that most humans do leave their house on occasion, and breathe fresh air, your tank doesn't have that luxury.

You said that tightly sealed houses build up CO2. Now you say that people going in and out gives the house a breath of fresh air. So if opening the door brings fresh air into the house then would'nt the tank get that same fresh air and prevent the lowering of PH due to CO2 build up in the house? Now a covered top can contribute to trapped CO2, but you said that trapped CO2 inside the house can definately cause issues in keeping PH up in your tank, which seems pretty far fetched.

[aquaman67]

mb4000

If you'd care do to research on here, you'll find that CO2 building up in a house enough to effect pH is not rare. Especially in new, air tight homes. The CO2 level needed to effect a tank's pH is far below the level needed to effect humans.

[mb4000]

I would love for you to show me some proof that CO2 build up inside a house will drop the PH in a tank. Is there an experiment that is out there that excludes all other factors that effect PH and narrows the drop in PH to a house full of CO2? If somebody actually did that experiment then I shall concede to your house full of CO2 explanation, but lets be real here. What solid info will this site possibly have about CO2 build up in a house and it's scientific relation to the build up of CO2 in an aquarium.

[rmendis]

Originally posted by mb4000
I would love for you to show me some proof that CO2 build up inside a house will drop the PH in a tank. Is there an experiment that is out there that excludes all other factors that effect PH and narrows the drop in PH to a house full of CO2? If somebody actually did that experiment then I shall concede to your house full of CO2 explanation, but lets be real here. What solid info will this site possibly have about CO2 build up in a house and it's scientific relation to the build up of CO2 in an aquarium.

This has been discussed on many threads here at RC. Simple tests like opening the window or comparing indoor pH tests to outdoor pH tests seem to indicate that certain levels of indoor CO2 can affect a tank's pH level.

See this article for more info:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/apr2002/short.htm

See the following threads for more info:
What's up with my PH? (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202494&highlight=indoor+AND+CO2)
Why can't I increase my PH? (http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=206619&highlight=indoor+AND+CO2)

[DgenR8]

I'm not sure what you disagree with, mb4000. Is it that you don't believe CO2 can build up within a tightly sealed domicile, or is it that you don't accept that it can effect PH?
BTW, if you re read my post, I said PEOPLE tend to go outside and get some fresh air, your tank doesn't have that luxury. I never suggested that people leaving and returning added significant fresh air to a home full of CO2. I don't think I've been arguing with myself here.
Do you at least accept that CO2 is a byproduct of animal respiration?

[mb4000]

You would have to litteraly never open a window or door and have a ton of people inside the house with no plants of any type to build up that much CO2. With lots of surface agitation and good water movement throughout the tank there will be plenty of oxygen inside the water. Like I said, The tank should be the least of your worries if your house is building up CO2.

My first response was more of a joke since CO2 in the house is a safety issue rather than a PH issue.

My second response was because you actualy believe that somebody would actually build up enough CO2 in their house to effect the PH

My experiment response is because your responses tend to suggest that PH is gonna crash left and right due to high CO2 levels.

It is funny how a humorous resonse could cause such a debate about something that probably will never happen.

:rolleyes:

[Tpareefer]

:rolleyes: taggin'

[DgenR8]

It doesn't appear that I'm going to change your mind, that's okay.
Should I start having problems maintaining PH in my system, one of the first things I'll do is open a few windows. I'll also recommend that course of action to others that have the same problem. It might not be the solution in every case, or any case for that matter, but it certainly couldn't hurt.
BTW, did you take the time to read over any of the links rmendis posted??

[do6151]

Guys, some people just refuse to accept certain things and it’s not worth your time arguing

Mb4000 I would kindly ask that you do some research before you begin to argue, certain things are just conmen sense.

[rmendis]

For those who are interested in reading more about low pH and indoor CO2, check out the following link: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marphfaq2.htm

[Kevin Riley]

Co2 build up in house will lower the PH in a Tank. Here is the test I did, PH at 7.8, run tubing from outside to Skimmer air intake after 24H PH 8.1. Take tubing off PH back to 7.8 after 24H, Tubing on and Ph at 8.1. This is only when AC is on

[aquaman67]

Hey Kevin,

WELCOME to R/C!

[NaClH20reeffish]

Here's another article that says inside CO2 levles can cause low pH.

http://www.aquariumfish.com/aquariumfish/detail.aspx?aid=9997&cid=3793&search=

[ItsMee]

Very interesting.....so high CO2 causes the PH to drop...or lower CO2 causes PH to drop?

[DgenR8]

High CO2 will cause PH to drop, significantly in some cases. This tends to be a problem more often in newer houses that are very tightly built.

[AJtheReefer]

I have the same issue. CO2 inside the house is keeping my PH low.

I did a couple of tests to confirm (based on the articles from Randy)
1. I took a water sample from the tank (showing 7.85 PH) and aerated with small pump and stone for 2 hours inside the house. PH did not change.

2. I did the same test outside of the house. Resulting PH was 8.2

[aquaman67]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=1632232#post1632232 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by mb4000
I would love for you to show me some proof that CO2 build up inside a house will drop the PH in a tank. Is there an experiment that is out there that excludes all other factors that effect PH and narrows the drop in PH to a house full of CO2? If somebody actually did that experiment then I shall concede to your house full of CO2 explanation, but lets be real here. What solid info will this site possibly have about CO2 build up in a house and it's scientific relation to the build up of CO2 in an aquarium.

Was this close enough?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=3870816#post3870816 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AJtheReefer
I have the same issue. CO2 inside the house is keeping my PH low.

I did a couple of tests to confirm (based on the articles from Randy)
1. I took a water sample from the tank (showing 7.85 PH) and aerated with small pump and stone for 2 hours inside the house. PH did not change.

2. I did the same test outside of the house. Resulting PH was 8.2