Pondering the Cryptic Zone

[The Curious]

First-of-all, I would love to hear any feedback from members who have or had cryptic zones incorporated into their filtration.

OK...so I am planning on using a 5-gallon black trash-can , plumbed into the sump, to create a cryptic zone under my new 90. The largest issue that I can foresee is the inevitable accumulation of detritus that a low flow-rate will cause. I have been reading about people having luck, and not having luck, using a turkey baster to remove the waste from the bottom, then I found Simon Garratt's article discussing the topic. http://www.reef-eden.net/cryptic_zones.htm

Near the bottom of the article he states, "When looking into a cryptic zone some time later on in its life, we will usually find a settled out layer of detritus on the bottom. Whilst at first we may think this isn’t a good thing ‘especially seeing as we try to minimise detritus build-up in the main tank. It should be remembered that this material is just the ‘inorganic’ remains and silt that’s left over ‘after’ the biologically available nutrients have been assimilated by the organisms above, so it represents absolutely no danger to the system in terms of nutrient load. If anything, this silty layer provides yet more habitat for a variety of scavenging worms and micro fauna that burrow through it in search of any missed morsels."

So, according to the author, the build up of detritus in this "refugium" would have no ill affects on the main system. Actually it would provide an additional habitat in the reef tank, allowing different organisms to thrive...creating more biodiversity.

This makes sense to me, how about you guys?
__________________

[tmz]

I use several. One is a 32 gallon rubber maid brute garbage can,stacked with large pieces of live rock. Water fed from a gravity drain enters the bottom at about 300gallons per hour and flows out the top. It then goes over a deep sand bed covered with live rock in ambient light and then on to the sump. I've used it for about 5 years and haven't needed to clean it.

[cloak]

Does a "cryptic zone" consist of sumps that have not been ulliminated over the years?

IME, there's all kinds of life in the dark, but the benefits are minimal. It's just another ecosystem, but it's somewhere else. (behind the rocks)

[tmz]

I disagree. It is beneficial,ime.. It provides plenty of room for extra live rock, surface area for bacteria, filter feeders, sponges ,pods and such. Very useful and easy. No pumps just a drain through set up loaded with rock and eventualy life. There is no light and no nusiance alge to worry about.PRetty simple stuff overdone in the write ups on it I think.

[cloak]

I know what you mean, but I doubt you'll have any problems removing your cryptic zone...

If the LR in the DT can't get it done, you might be wasting your time. (skimmer aside)

JMO. :)

[Allmost]

just take into account the sponges that grow in there.

they EAT bacteria [like a skimmer] and detritus, and organic carbon.

they shedd their cells, which is the best food for corals.

so just the sponges that grow in there are beneficial. there are alot of other organism that will re produce there sending larva into water, which is another great source of food.

Im a big believer in Cryptic areas.

[bcfishman]

always wondered whether a cryptic zone could be set up in DT

If you have alot of porous rock, seed the bottom where there is low light and flow

Wouldnt you in effect get a cryptic zone built up over time?

Is there any downside to this?

[The Curious]

Well...I'm officially sold on the cryptic addition to my filtration. I have an overload of live rock that I have not been able to bring myself to sell, so I am planning to break my rock into fist sized pieces so that I can shove as much of it as possible into my cryptic zone.

From what I have been reading you are absolutely right bcfishman, your DT is full of dark areas where sponges, feather-dusters, etc. flourish. The under-side of many pieces of the mature live rock in my DT is covered in sponges, and I don't believe that there is any down-side to this.

The cryptic zone seems to basically be a refugium for benthic organisms, who happen to be very useful to our enclosed systems.

What an awesome hobby :spin1:

[tmz]

always wondered whether a cryptic zone could be set up in DT

If you have alot of porous rock, seed the bottom where there is low light and flow

Wouldnt you in effect get a cryptic zone built up over time?

Is there any downside to this?

I have something similar in several tanks where higher sand mounds ( for wrasses) are in the back with overhangs of live rock that keep it realtively dark. Sponges and filter feeders grow there. Downsides : flow may cause some detritus and organisms you don't want to blow around the tank, light will trigger some nuisance algae . The extra live rock out of tank also offers opportunites to use less in the tank for better flow through and more swimming room.

[tmz]

Well...I'm officially sold on the cryptic addition to my filtration. I have an overload of live rock that I have not been able to bring myself to sell, so I am planning to break my rock into fist sized pieces so that I can shove as much of it as possible into my cryptic zone.

From what I have been reading you are absolutely right bcfishman, your DT is full of dark areas where sponges, feather-dusters, etc. flourish. The under-side of many pieces of the mature live rock in my DT is covered in sponges, and I don't believe that there is any down-side to this.

The cryptic zone seems to basically be a refugium for benthic organisms, who happen to be very useful to our enclosed systems.

What an awesome hobby :spin1:

I'd probably, not pack it too tight. FWIW I use large pieces to allow flow to pass easily from the bottom to the top.
Some of those prganisms are very useful as food and for processing iorganic phosphat and nitrogen into organic forms which can be bio avaialable and also skimmable .

[tmz]

I know what you mean, but I doubt you'll have any problems removing your cryptic zone...

Why would I do that; it's part of a system that does very well in terms of the vibrancy of the corals,the fish and other animals. It takes no maintenance . It's particulary useful for me as extra space for bacteria and keeps them from stringing up the display tanks. I also dose organic carbon/vodka and vinegar so bacteria densitites are healthy.

[cherubfish pair]

There's one guy on here that has a hob marineland magnum canister that he quit doing maintenance on and it filled up with worms, sponges, tunicates and the like.

[cloak]

I know what you mean, but I doubt you'll have any problems removing your cryptic zone...

Why would I do that; it's part of a system that does very well in terms of the vibrancy of the corals,the fish and other animals. It takes no maintenance . It's particulary useful for me as extra space for bacteria and keeps them from stringing up the display tanks. I also dose organic carbon/vodka and vinegar so bacteria densitites are healthy.

Because you can... K.I.S.S.

Just as an example, why would I want to spend $100 on a tank, when I can get the same results for half the price? (no cryptic zone, no GFO, no refugium, etc)

Whatevers clever though... ;)

[SantaMonica]

Cryptic certainly would not hurt. Just a matter of what you'd rather do with the space. I would probably first go for more algal growth space, but if I had enough of that then cryptic would sure put lots more spores of sponges etc into the water. Cryptic also would suit closets, bedrooms, etc where you don't want lights, fans etc, and it would also provide places for NPS to take hold such that they might have a better reproductive chance in the display.

[Saltydrip]

I have also been making this debate. It's hard to figure out how and where to plumb it into the system though. I'm thinking it would be best to surface skim the water out of the fuge, you really want to avoid as much solid mater as possible. It would end up filling up and clogging the live rock with time. When I ran my fluval FX5 canister I would always be very carefull when cleaning it. It was always loaded with critters.

[Cuddlefish69]

I utilize a 20 gallon hex tank and 1/3 of a 55 gallon long sump for cryptic use. All are stuffed with rock. It is a great way to use biological filtration and it grows all sorts of stuff on the rocks. It works, it is easy, and it is no maintenance.

IMO cryptic zones work better than deep sand beds or macro algae as I have tried both for periods of time but never had great luck. But I have always had cryptic zone one way or another.

[cherubfish pair]

I think I will entirely replace my refugium/algae filter with a cryptic zone. The fuge runs three power cords: light, inlet pump, internal circulation pump. The cryptic requires no power: the inlet is the discharge from my skimmer. No light or circulation for the cryptic.

[cloak]

Just make sure your not getting the term "cryptic zone" mixed up with an abundance of live rock. Some of which are in the dark.

FWIW, the older I've become, (experience) the more I've started to realize that all the "bells & whistles" are not really necessary. Is something like a cryptic zone needed, or do you just want to set one up for $h!ts & giggles?

Good luck. :)

[pledosophy]

A 5g zone on a 90g tank, forget it, you can use that space better by growing cheato at a minimal increase in cost to run the bulb.

I have a 65g cryptic and a 40g refugium on a 125g tank and the pod life and coral growth is amazing. I hurt myself in June, haven't done a water change, I only add 2 part, and my tank is better then ever. I also add top off water. Two part and top off water is all I put in the tank.

5g's worth on a 90? Just sounds like a detritus trap to me.

My 65g crptic zone has a split return from my display, a modded maxijet for 3 hours a day, and a closed loop that pushes through 150 lbs of LR for 1 hour a day.

The rocks are clean and not much visible growth of anything, but the tank is good, so who cares, the tank looks good.

[The Curious]

So I have decided that instead of using the 2 foot long sump I already have, I'm going to silicone some baffles into a 30 long I have laying around. This will give me plenty of space for my mangroves, chaeto, and live rock rubble. It will also take away the space I planned on putting my 5 gallon cryptic zone.

This situation I am in kills me, I have enough extra 30 and 40 gallon tanks laying around that I could set-up a serious filtration system, however, I do not have room in my living room to do such...according to my lady (the boss). So I am trying to beef up my filtration in a way that fits completely underneath the 90 gallon.

A friend of mine just sent me some pics of his overflow chamber, which he has turned into a cryptic zone. It is not exactly in the perfect sequence (preferably the cryptic zone comes after the skimmer) but I'm thinking about implementing that Idea, along with a canister filter painted black and powered by a low-powered powerhead. I am not assuming that these small cryptic zones will make a huge impact on my filtration system, but I do think that they will add a small amount of food for my corals and a habitat for additional organisms that will process waste. It may not be much, but it doesn't seem like it will hurt, and it requires basically no maintenance once set-up.

[tmz]

A couple of points:
Prefilteing or pre skimming isn't needed, ime. Mine is fed directly from a drain off a grwow out tank . Detritus that' settles in there and degrades feeds the fauana and mineralizes over time. I have never cleaned mine and it's been up fo ra number of years.

Water leaving the darlk rock pile goes over an un lit area of sand piled with live rock rock and then to the chaeto and on to the sump and skimmer.

Mine is simply , extra live rock, in the dark with room for water to flow through it and around it , fed with moderate flow from the bottom up which helps to lessen heavy detritus build up and to deliver nutrients to the benthic fauana. . Lot's of sponges and fliter feeders like fealther dusters grow there; bacteria too. All contirbute to the food web in the system.
I also run a couple of them in in ambient dim light.
All of my filtration is in an unfinished basement ; so, space is not an issue for me,thank goodness..

I don't think it's a substitute for an algae grow/harvest system and vice versa. While both remove inorganic nutrients, they do different things in different ways.

I also keep a moderately sized chaeto refugium fed from the rock pile .

Algae on opposite photo period can help oxygenate the water when other photosynthesis stops. The algae can also uptake inorganic nutrients as cyrptic fuana can and can also provide some habitat for pods and such as cryptic fuana can . Algae can also use up some CO2 which may help low pH.

[SantaMonica]

I think I will entirely replace my refugium/algae filter with a cryptic zone.

Remember you'll still need a way to remove P, and metals.

[tmz]

Bacteria, sponges filter feeders, et alia assimilate and use phosphorous .Free metals are bound by organics which are plentiful here. There may still be a need for some additional nitrogen and phosphorus export as with any technique but a healthy thriving base of microfuana and surface area for bacteria and a more open aquascape facilitating flow in the display tank while minimizing detritus buildups helps.ime.

[tmz]

BTW, I run a very well fed mixed reef sps dominant system with over 40 fish and hudreds of corals with PO4 at .03ppm or less and NO3 at,0.2ppm. It's been this way for almost 5 years with these zones,gac , good skimming and moderate vodka and vinegar dosing to encourage bacterial growth , thus feeding the food web from the bottom up and providing skimable forms of nitrogen and phosphorous assimilated in the bacteria.. I haven't used gfo or other PO4 removers since several months ago when I decided to try the system without using even the small amounts of gfo I was using unitl then .Next I may remove my opposite photo period chaeto refugium to make room for a seahorse grow out tank and to turn off another light ;it doesn't grow much anymore in the low nutrient water but does still provide some nightime oxygen and some habitat.
I see no reason a similar dark area with rock wouldn't help quite a bit even without the extra organic carbon. It's just an add on that can do a few things for a system in terms of surface area, water volume and organics processing.

[SPotter]

Tom, do you put a lid on the cryptic zone to keep it totally dark? Did you use anything to seed the cryptic zone with sponges and pods or did they just develop on their own?

[007Bond]

Tom, do you put a lid on the cryptic zone to keep it totally dark? Did you use anything to seed the cryptic zone with sponges and pods or did they just develop on their own?

Wondering the same Tom---Rick

[tmz]

The brute can is covered and dark,The largerl ive rock pieces in it live rock in it were not seeded but it were healthy the system it's attached too has a lot of fuana that likely migrates. to it . I also use a bin full of deep sand with about 10 inches of larger chunks of live rock on top of it ;that on is in dim room light . The extra live rock in part of my sump are also in ambient light.

[Lavoisier]

Bacteria, sponges filter feeders, et alia assimilate and use phosphorous .Free metals are bound by organics which are plentiful here. There may still be a need for some additional nitrogen and phosphorus export as with any technique but a healthy thriving base of microfuana and surface area for bacteria and a more open aquascape facilitating flow in the display tank while minimizing detritus buildups helps.ime.

Do you repopulate your cryptic zone periodically or have you found it unnecessary over the five years you have had it? If you do add additional "life" occasionally, what do you add and how often?

Regards

[tmz]

I think adding life could be useful but no I haven't added anything . It does get it's flow from the main system which seems to meet it's needs. I also dose organic carbon (vodka and vinegar) to the main system which keeps C and bacteria in the food web.

[SPotter]

I think adding life could be useful but no I haven't added anything . It does get it's flow from the main system which seems to meet it's needs. I also dose organic carbon (vodka and vinegar) to the main system which keeps C and bacteria in the food web.

Hey Tom, I know Im digging up an old post but I am getting close to setting up my new system and I am laying things out on paper. Im definitely going to set up a similar cryptic zone as yours and I am trying to decide what kind of holding containers to use. I see you are using something as simple as brute cans….would you mind posting some pictures of your set up?

[007Bond]

I bought these barrels on Craigslist. $23 each. #3 & 4 have rock. I looked under "for sale" general, ...then under search plug in "barrels"

http://i.imgur.com/t3iF60O.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1gYPX1e.jpg

[SPotter]

Thats amazing! Can you tell me whats in #1 and #2? are you driving the water down to the bottom of #3 & 4? finally how many lbs of rock do you have in those containers?

[007Bond]

Well its my water change set up. The 4 barrels add over 200gal in total volume to the system. I change 100 gals at a time. Its all gravity... no pumps. Here is how it works. step 1- swing the return pipe over to barrel 3. Step 2- shut valve off between barrels 2&3 Step3 open the drain valves on barrels 1&2 Step 4- refill with ro-di water add salt (I have a mixer motor on barrel 1) turn on heater, ck parameters... reverse steps 1&2....your done!

Yes I send the water to the bottom of each barrel and exit at the top per Tom's design.
I'm not sure how much rock fills the barrels. The design also helps to filter the water, and I do have bottom drains on barrels 3&4 as well. Every 4 to 6 months I open them for just a short burst to drain bottom detrius off.

The nice thing the barrels are kind of heavy duty and cheap,...They usually are advertised as previous have had pickles, alcohol,ect. in them Good luck with your build,---Rick

[ReeferYork]

Question answered, don't mind me...

[SPotter]

Well its my water change set up. The 4 barrels add over 200gal in total volume to the system. I change 100 gals at a time. Its all gravity... no pumps. Here is how it works. step 1- swing the return pipe over to barrel 3. Step 2- shut valve off between barrels 2&3 Step3 open the drain valves on barrels 1&2 Step 4- refill with ro-di water add salt (I have a mixer motor on barrel 1) turn on heater, ck parameters... reverse steps 1&2....your done!

Yes I send the water to the bottom of each barrel and exit at the top per Tom's design.
I'm not sure how much rock fills the barrels. The design also helps to filter the water, and I do have bottom drains on barrels 3&4 as well. Every 4 to 6 months I open them for just a short burst to drain bottom detrius off.

The nice thing the barrels are kind of heavy duty and cheap,...They usually are advertised as previous have had pickles, alcohol,ect. in them Good luck with your build,---Rick

Thanks for the explanation!!!! Now the hunt begins for some barrels!

[007Bond]

I think you find them easy to come by.

[tmz]

Hey Tom, I know Im digging up an old post but I am getting close to setting up my new system and I am laying things out on paper. Im definitely going to set up a similar cryptic zone as yours and I am trying to decide what kind of holding containers to use. I see you are using something as simple as brute cans….would you mind posting some pictures of your set up?

Here is an older photo made shortly after I put it in place, years ago. It's still there and functioning. It's a simple set up. Water approximately 300gphenters the top of the can from drain line which fits through a hole in the lid . The black drain hose is loosely inserted into the the pvc pipe. The pipe is set about 3 inches over the top of the water and goes down to about 3 inches from the bottom . The water comes out through the bulkhead on the left near the top. The outflow goes to a bin in ambient light which is filled with sand with live rock on top. The live rock over the sand assists advective flow into the sand a little . The bin water enters at the top and flows out at the top.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee306/fishandfootball58/Toms%20Reef%20System%20July%203rd%202010/TomTMZreefphotos452.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fishandfootball58/media/Toms%20Reef%20System%20July%203rd%202010/TomTMZreefphotos452.jpg.html)

[Rybren]

If you're hesitant to use used barrels, I have found new ones in wine-making supply houses. The biggest one near me sells new food grade 55G blue barrels for $24 ea.

[007Bond]

The white barrels I found are food grade also and are larger than 55gals. You need to cut the tops off because there are just two bung holes on them, and there heavy duty. Mine measure 1/4 thick where I cut them,...I think there built to take a bit of rough handling.
Their also pretty common on craigslist. I thought about my design for quite awhile and never had any trouble finding 3 or 4 guys selling them at anytime.---Rick

[SPotter]

Here is an older photo made shortly after I put it in place, years ago. It's still there and functioning. It's a simple set up. Water approximately 300gphenters the top of the can from drain line which fits through a hole in the lid . The black drain hose is loosely inserted into the the pvc pipe. The pipe is set about 3 inches over the top of the water and goes down to about 3 inches from the bottom . The water comes out through the bulkhead on the left near the top. The outflow goes to a bin in ambient light which is filled with sand with live rock on top. The live rock over the sand assists advective flow into the sand a little . The bin water enters at the top and flows out at the top.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee306/fishandfootball58/Toms%20Reef%20System%20July%203rd%202010/TomTMZreefphotos452.jpg (http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fishandfootball58/media/Toms%20Reef%20System%20July%203rd%202010/TomTMZreefphotos452.jpg.html)

Thanks for posting Tom. One last question about the bin in ambient light….is it a round bin or rectangular and do you think it matters what the shape is for this bin?

[tmz]

It's a rectangular storage box type bin.,about 36 inches by 22 inches . I think the larger the surface area the better. Most of the denitrification will occur in the first inch or so. Mine has 7 inches of fine sand in it; if I were redoing it, it would be 2 to three inches deep and 6 feet long.

[SPotter]

It's a rectangular storage box type bin.,about 36 inches by 22 inches . I think the larger the surface area the better. Most of the denitrification will occur in the first inch or so. Mine has 7 inches of fine sand in it; if I were redoing it, it would be 2 to three inches deep and 6 feet long.

Great to know! My new system will have a 360g dt and in the garage I will be building a fish room. I was going to buy a 100g stock tank for the cryptic zone and then let it drain into a big Fuge. I like the brute cans because they are more compact and should take up less space than a stock tank even if I use 2 of them. Now just need to figure out the ambient bin/fuge.

[tmz]

Sounds like fun. Good luck with it.

[SPotter]

thanks! but now that I think about it more…..If I use the brutes I won't be able to feed the cryptic zone with one of my drains from the dt. so I think I might be back with using a stock tank.

[Red_Ant]

I am thinking of doing the same thing as I now have 2 55 gallon drums free since switching to 105G water storage containers. Going from the bottom up now makes perfect sense. Does that take care of the issue of low oxygen in the containers? I spoke with Tyree and his concern was low oxygen issues with using 55 gallon drums. But, I had planned to have a DSB at the bottom of each with the LR on PVC stands on top. They were going to be top feed, that may have been the low oxygen issue. Should I just forget the DSB in each and just do cryptic with the Live rock?

[tmz]

The feed drain is high enough to gravity feed the can in my case

The oxygen is not problem for me( I do not get any sulfide build up or hydrogen sulfide from mine after years of use) with a feed of around 400gph , upward flow and large pieces of rock which leave plenty of pathways for the water to flow through without clogging .

The water exiting the can from the top never has an odor at all;nor does teh water in the can ;there is no black sulfide residue at the bottom even in accumulated detritus.
The water then runs over a 36 inch horizontal course open to the air before hitting the sump
My idea is to get the drain water and thr nutrients and oxygen it carries to come up through the pile of rock. On a reef it moves up via advective flow as currents strike the structure from the side causing a drop in water pressure under it and a consequent upwelling.
In a situation with horizontal flow like a stock tank some flow hitting the side of the structure can cause a similar upward flow but I don't think it will be as strong.

[Red_Ant]

Thanks for the input Tom. I actually have another option as well. I have a spare 100 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. Would I be better off using it? I could fill the bottom with 6" of sand for a DBS and then put the lr on top of pvc above the sand for the cryptic zone. Would this be a better option then two 55 gallon barrels?

Also is it better to feed directly from the display tank or after the sump to avoid detritus? I actually have two drains/return pumps that would flow probably 450 gallons each.

[tmz]

Honestly I don't know which would be better. I know my set up has been trouble free for years. I feed from a single tank drain, detritus and all but there are seven tanks in the system

[Red_Ant]

Gotcha. Is the cryptic after those 7 tanks? If so, I wonder if the 7 tanks capture most of the detritus. I think I will do the 100g Rubbermaid since it takes up the same space and follows your point that more horizontal space is better for the dsb. I'll plumb the Rubbermaid both ways with ball valves so I have the option to feed from the display or from the sump.

Thanks so much for your help. You have just helped me finish the new basement sump/cryptic design for my new 300 gallon tank. Now I just need to start a build thread to force myself to keep moving forward. :)

[tmz]

Gotcha. Is the cryptic after those 7 tanks? If so, I wonder if the 7 tanks capture most of the detritus. I think I will do the 100g Rubbermaid since it takes up the same space and follows your point that more horizontal space is better for the dsb. I'll plumb the Rubbermaid both ways with ball valves so I have the option to feed from the display or from the sump.

Thanks so much for your help. You have just helped me finish the new basement sump/cryptic design for my new 300 gallon tank. Now I just need to start a build thread to force myself to keep moving forward. :)

You are welcome have fun with it and goood luck.

No the cryptic area is fed from a tank with fish and corals and feedings that gets its water from the sump where all the other drains including those from the cryptic set up empty pre skimmer so it gets some detritus. There are 3 return pumps in action each feeding a 2 or 3 tanks. I don't use mechanical filtration,( ie socks etc )anywhere except during cleaning so there is a bit of particulate organic matter time blowing around in relatively high flow most of the time ; not enough settles out to cause buildups in the tanks with occasional siphoning of a few areas.

[007Bond]

Hi,...I would like to add/seed some sponges to my cryptic area. I would like to add, and not disturb them further. What/how needs to be done? Do you simply drop them in? What types of sponges,...blue, red, yellow, orange ball type? Thanks in advance,---Rick

[tmz]

I don't know. Keep in mind some sponges need silicate;some are ,mixotrophic, ie, they need some light.Try to find out whether any seeding you may do is with vatieties that are calcareous ,ie do not use silicate for structure an channels to a large extent( you can dose silicat an some do but it also enocurages diatoms) and heterotrophic, ie do not need light . Figuring that out and finding the right specimes may take a good deal of work. Since I have rather copious sponge growtht through out my system I just let nature take it's course in seeding the cryptic area.

[SPotter]

Steve Tyree sells starter packs to seed cryptic zones.

[007Bond]

Thanks for the input Tom,...I have read that some people have said similar to you that they are just natural occurring from adding things to your tank. I have been in a restart up mode on system for better than a year so my system if pretty sterile, and I'm not planning on adding any new rock is where the question came from. One other thing I have read about them is they can releasing toxins if they die/stressed. I do like the fact that they help with filtering and are just another living thing in a total system. My barrels are opaque, so they do get some ambient light in.---Rick

Steve Tyree sells starter packs to seed cryptic zones.

Thanks SPotter,....I'll check into that.

[SantaMonica]

Could always try the blender trick.

Also, where is Tyree's site nowadays?

[jimmy n]

I have a small cryptic zone attached to my sump, no light. I toss rubble and coral skeleton in it. Need to shine a light on it and see how it looks in there:)

[rexdenton]

I had a cryptic zone built on for a long time. I've left it more or less behind and go without from the SPS tank. In general terms:
Pros:
1) More aquatic diversity,more food for the tank.
2)More interesting tank at night.
3)Copepods, amphipods and worm prey good for nighttime hunters/predators.
4) low soluble nutrients as dispaly waste gets 'fixed' into the cryptic area

Cons:
1) good to remember its a closed systems akin to a space ship for out aquatic friends, so, if something goes wrong all the waste nutrients jump right back into the ship, (and wow, what a smell...#weoncereturnedfromvacationtoareefdisaster)
2) in my experience, the water 'color' was never as crisp and clear as the build without it.
3) The sand bed had an abundance of some real creepy crawly polychete worms that kind of freaked me out when I stuck my hands in there...

[007Bond]

Steve Tyree sells starter packs to seed cryptic zones.

Anyone come up with a link to Tyree's starter packs to seed a new cryptic zone :confused:?
Thanks,---Rick

[SPotter]

Here it is....sorry I forgot to post it sooner. Click on farmed sponges

http://www.reeffarmers.com

[Red_Ant]

I'm actually going to order the starter pack after I researched and talking with both Steve's. I'll try to remember to post some pictures when I setup everything by the end of the month.

[007Bond]

Anyone come up with a link to Tyree's starter packs to seed a new cryptic zone :confused:?
Thanks,---Rick

Any other links/thoughts for seeding? The Tyree starter pack is a couple hundred samolies delivered.:crazy1:...Think I could just buy some LR. my LFS ? He always has some nice stuff full coralline ect, and he sells it pretty cheap. Should I just get some of that, and see what grows in my barrow with just ambient light? My biggest fear is to reintroduce aiptasia. Notice I said reintroduce,...my tank is pretty much virgin after so called,...cooking all my rock in my basement for better than a year. Anyhow sorry for the long question.---Rick

[H.reidi.MN]

Wow nice barrel set up. So to be a crypoc zone. Just no light is required? Do most people just run rock rubble cryptic zones or DSP cryptic zone etc... Could a chamber in a sump be used or would ambient light defeat the purpose ?

Thanks.

[007Bond]

Wow nice barrel set up. So to be a crypoc zone. Just no light is required? Do most people just run rock rubble cryptic zones or DSP cryptic zone etc... Could a chamber in a sump be used or would ambient light defeat the purpose ?

Thanks.

I'm not sure of the answer reidi, I know TMZ explained his set up that he has had going for a number of years. I think his first barrel is dark and the second gets some ambient light. And Steve Tyree has a cryptic zone set up also.---Rick

[SPotter]

the starter pack isn't cheap but the shipping is what really kills it but IMO its really worth it. I used that on my last tank and was amazed at the condition of everything when I got the package.

[007Bond]

I would hope so. Thanks.

[greyreef]

Any update on how your cryptic zone is coming?
Did you eventually get Tyreea starter pack?
Thnking about this myself, maybe combining it with some of his corals...

[Lavoisier]

Any update on how your cryptic zone is coming?
Did you eventually get Tyreea starter pack?
Thnking about this myself, maybe combining it with some of his corals...

I'm about 2 or 3 weeks from life in my tank. I will probably just visit a couple of LFS and grab a rock or two and some sand from the bottom of their LR tanks, and maybe add some addition copepods from LAquaria. I did start a 20g cryptic tank for my 90g DT about 2 months ago and just added some copepods from Reefs2Go. I have not noticed any significant differences at this point.

[scubadan206]

I think it's awesome how many sponges can filter out nutrients and turn them into food for other organisms. My next big upgrade has a cryptic zone penciled in.
Does anyone know how to frag sponges?
Anyone know of a commercially available sponge that likes cryptic zones? Besides the aforementioned Reef Farmers starter pack....
Daniel. :wildone:

[SantaMonica]

I like to think of cryptic as an enlarged periphyton field under a rock.

[Lavoisier]

I like to think of cryptic as an enlarged periphyton field under a rock.

If you add the potential presence of worms, sponges and other filter feeders, then I would certainly agree.

[Red_Ant]

I did the Tyree starter pack. Because of weather it took about 2 months for me to get everything. But, well worth the wait.

But, here is the funny thing. During that 2 months I feed my frag tank heavily. I ended up with crazy sponges and sea squits all over the bottom part of my egg crates. It had to be the oyster feast. I'm going to cut up the crates and move them into the cyptic tank soon.

Question for everyone. Do you run filter socks with the cryptic system? I currently have my overflow go straight into my skimmer with the extra flow going through a filter sock. But, I'm starting to wonder if the filter sock is taking out the little food that could be feeding the cyptic zone which is why I see so much growth in the frag tank vs. the cryptic tank. Should I remove the filter sock?

[tmz]

FWIW,I do not use filter socks .The drain from one of the tanks on the system feeds the water( around 20% of total system drain water) to the bottom of the brute can; it exits from the top; flows over and into a deep sand bed with rock on top of it to aid advective flow into the sand kept in ambient light, then ;through a bare bottom chaeto refugium ( when I can get the chaeto to grow;PO4 is often too low for that) and; on to the main sump where it is skimmed and returned to the aquariums.

[Red_Ant]

Thanks Tom. Do you ever have to clean out the bottom of the brute can?

[tmz]

Once a year or so but i don't remove all of it. Most of it seems to be left over gritty material ;not a large proportion of degrading detritus. There are a lot of sponges and small feather dusters dusters , even more sponges on the rock kept over the sand bed.
As some detritus does move to the aquariums from the other drains , I siphon some out of the tanks from time to time . I think some detritus is ok but not so much so when it accumulates very near corals.
For clarification I do use a for one of the 7 tanks on the system( an extremely heavy fed seahorse tank).Seahorses can dirty up a tank quickly, they require frequent heavy feeding and don't fully digest much of it.

[Red_Ant]

Ok, got it. I feed my main tank heavily so it sounds like I should keep the filter sock there. The answer may be to take the frag tank drain and have it go straight to the cryptic tank. Currently I have 70% of the main tank straight to the skimmer and 30% straight to the filter sock in the sump (which is after the cryptic tank). The frag drain goes straight over the deep sand bed in the sump and then back up to the main tank. I'm going to move that drain to the cryptic tank since that is the starting point of my filtration (past the skimmer) anyways. Would that be a better way to keep the cryptic zone fed, but still keep a lot of detritus out? My frag tank will basically act like your brute can.

[tmz]

I'm not sure what way is best. I'm satisfied with the way I do it for my tanks.

[roosterchef]

I have a question about the order of refugiums in the flow. The article referenced in the OP describes the crypto-fuge being the last stage in the flow before return to the DT. I believe this is to maximize the amount of food coming out of the crypto getting into the DT. Yet most everyone seems to describe their own setup as putting the crypto before the lighted refugium, with an apparent pathway of DT -> Skimmer -> crypto-fuge -> chaeto-fuge -> return to DT.

What's the thinking here? Anyone try it both ways?

Planning for a return to the life after being away for 10 years. Funny how much has changed (led lights, crypto-fuges, vodka-dosing, etc.) and how much hasn't (lighting arguments, skimmer arguments, etc.). Like putting on old shoes. :-)

-jc (sorry, no signature block yet)

[SantaMonica]

Chaeto will trap food particles causing them to rot, and the trapped food particles will also block light and flow from reaching the chaeto. So you'd probably want to put the chaeto where there is the least food particles.