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View Full Version : Dose Alk and Calc 24/7


Crackem
02/27/2013, 11:13 AM
Can i dose Alk and Calc 24/7 using drews dosers? my pH is very low and i am trying to maintain stability in my alk and calc using my dosers but my levels are dropping and not staying stable. ph is 7.76 to 8.0. My alk is at 8.4 dkh which i know is within normal range but i would like to keep it closer to 10.0.
The Brs calculator says to dose 68ml so i figured i would dose 34ml for one day and test and than recalculate. Basically i just want to know if its ok to dose small amounts 24/7 instead of like i was dosing which was from 10pm to 10am.
Im also dosing very small amount of kalk but not in my ato. Its in a small 1 gallon jug, but it doesnt seem to be doing much. i thought it would raise my ph and keep my alk/calc levels stable but im really just dosing very little. 25 min per hour at 1.6ml/min.

Thanks for your input as always

tmz
02/27/2013, 01:59 PM
Dosing kalk instead of two part would help the pH. You can dose 2 part 24/7 but raising the alk with carbonate won't do much for pH. CO2 needs to be lowr in the water for thatand thr hydroxide in calcium hydorxide( kalk) use CO3 to make carbonate.

_shorty_
02/27/2013, 02:23 PM
Dosing kalk instead of two part would help the pH. You can dose 2 part 24/7 but raising the alk with carbonate won't do much for pH. CO2 needs to be lowr in the water for thatand thr hydroxide in calcium hydorxide( kalk) use CO3 to make carbonate.

Would you suspect some ionic imballance with pH that low? I think water changes might be in order.

Psyops
02/27/2013, 02:41 PM
Would you suspect some ionic imballance with pH that low? I think water changes might be in order.

Not enough info to make that assumption. We don't know his systems kalk demand. What type of corals. Does he keep his house closed up all the time? Ph probe calibrated recently?

Redseadragon12
02/27/2013, 02:43 PM
I dose with an ismatec works great 24/7. I use part A/B, and kalk

Crackem
02/27/2013, 03:33 PM
My lab grade ph probe was recalibrated recently and I've tested ph with a new salifert kit as well. My apt is almost always closed up. I have a lot of sps frags and a couple small colonies on my 72bowfront. I made a gallon of kalk using mrs wages and RO and started dosing it 24/7 for 25min/hour with doser that does 1.6ml/min.
The other day my ph was at 7.75.
As soon as my lights come on my ph starts to climb and then peaks at almost 8.0 and than back down again.
I did a 25 gallon water change 2 weeks ago.
So maybe I should just keep dosing alk and calc at night as usual and increase my kalk dosage? I thought alk raises ph which is why it was recommended to dose after lights out. Also whenever I open my sliding glass door in a bedroom near the tank it definitely raises the pH. The highest I've seen is 8.1. I opened it today and my ph is already 8.05, but its to hot to keep the door open and its to far to run any kind of tubing to the door. My 2 part has lasted a very long time because I am dosing very little. I've been dosing about 1min per hour for 10 hours. If I switched to just dosing kalk I think I would have to dose a lot more per min and I would be constantly refilling my jug. My evap rate is about 1 gallon every 48 hours. I'm not sure how much alk my tank consumes but I think it was around .40-.50 per day dkh.

bertoni
02/27/2013, 05:25 PM
7.6 is low enough that I might work on the issue, but I'd be careful about believing the test result, although using a recently calibrated meter and a Salifert is fairly thorough.

The recipe 1 two-part will raise the pH temporarily because it consumes carbon dioxide from the water. Kalk is more effective per unit of alkalinity added, so using more of it seems like a good idea to me. Raising the alkalinity itself will raise the pH, but only a very small amount. This article has a chart:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

Personally, I'd try more Kalk and see how that goes. The next steps would be a carbon dioxide scrubber or an air exchanger, which are much more costly than Kalk.

Crackem
02/27/2013, 07:21 PM
I bought pre packaged 2 part recipe from brs but I'm not sure if its recipe 1 or 2. I believe its recipe 2. I will increase my kalk dose as suggested and see how that works. Thank You again for the quick responses.

_shorty_
02/27/2013, 10:03 PM
7.6 is low enough that I might work on the issue, but I'd be careful about believing the test result, although using a recently calibrated meter and a Salifert is fairly thorough.

The recipe 1 two-part will raise the pH temporarily because it consumes carbon dioxide from the water. Kalk is more effective per unit of alkalinity added, so using more of it seems like a good idea to me. Raising the alkalinity itself will raise the pH, but only a very small amount. This article has a chart:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

Personally, I'd try more Kalk and see how that goes. The next steps would be a carbon dioxide scrubber or an air exchanger, which are much more costly than Kalk.

Algae turf scrubbers are very effective at removing CO2. The ATS kind, not the UAS kind. And you'd run it on opposite light cycle from DT, helping reduce pH swing even more. Its so effective at removing CO2, that it eats through it and starts pulling carbon out of bicarbonates. You'd get the benefit of reduced NO3 and PO4 as well.

Crackem
02/27/2013, 11:27 PM
Anyone have a link for an easy to make DIY co2 scrubber?

tmz
02/28/2013, 11:56 AM
Would you suspect some ionic imballance with pH that low? I think water changes might be in order.

No, it's CO2. Waht "ionic imbalance" do you think would drop ph?

Crackem
02/28/2013, 01:43 PM
I checked my kalk tubing and saw that it wasn't dripping so I replaced the tubing. I also ordered sofnolime to make a co2 scrubber.

_shorty_
02/28/2013, 08:57 PM
No, it's CO2. Waht "ionic imbalance" do you think would drop ph?

I don't know exactly, and dont know chemistry enough to speculate in a legible manner... but I've had the issue before, caused by old/bad salt I used. Ultimately couldn't keep pH up and just couldn't keep things stable.

After a few water changes with decent salt, everything lined out, pH came up to normal, and other parameters stabilized.

Crackem
02/28/2013, 09:11 PM
It's definitely due to lack of fresh air in my apt. Today I opened a sliding glass door because we have a cold front for a few days and for the first time ever my pH hit 8.2, and its at 8.13 now, but I closed the door so I'm expecting it to plummet as usual to 7.7-7.8

bertoni
02/28/2013, 10:48 PM
The only water parameter that's going to affect pH is alkalinity.

Opening a window or a door often makes a big change in the pH. Unfortunately, most of us can't use that approach. :(

tmz
03/01/2013, 12:06 AM
I agree alkainity can effect pH for a short time in most tanks or if it's low. OP rorts 8 plus dkh though,sop I wouldn't mess with that.

tmz
03/01/2013, 12:19 AM
Anyone have a link for an easy to make DIY co2 scrubber?

Here is is a thread on it:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1889552&highlight=co2+scrubber

There are several designs throughout the thread. This is my $1 version presentned in psot #102 in the cited thread:



http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee306/fishandfootball58/reef%202011/IMG_0105.jpg


There are two in use one for each of two skimmers.

Crackem
03/01/2013, 09:07 AM
Thank You Tom I read your thread and saw your pics and I'd like to thank you for all of your help! I'm not a DIY guy even tho this project seems extremely simple so I got a brs universal air filter( looks like a RO cannister) also bought a two little fishys adapter to connect the skimmer tubing to the cannister. That was the part I was having trouble figuring out. How to connect the cannister to the skimmer tubing. Hopefully I'll have it set up soon. I wish I could just open a window or door cause I did yesterday and my ph hit 8.2 for the 1st time in a long time.

tmz
03/01/2013, 10:08 AM
You are welcome,

Good luck.