My tank CRASHED overnight! :'( Please help me try to figure out why.

[JHempo]

OK so here's the whole story:

So I'm a newbie. I purchased a 7 month old biocube hqi about a month and a half ago. The tank has a cheato refugium in the back center and had 2 clownfish, a scooter dragonet, a hermit crab, an anemone (small, not sure what kind), a small mushroom, and a little circular patch of starburst. Everything was fine (i think) until about a week ago.
Oh, I should add that the rock and filter pads and carbon had been in the tank, but to transport the tank the previous owner took everything out, put it in a bucket, and threw the sand away and cleaned the tank. so basically i bought new live sand and put everything back in, being told the tank would go through a 'mini-cycle' but that everything would be fine since i didn't have alot of fish and the rock and filterpads were already established and it had a cheato refug as well. i also added a bottle of that instant ocean biospira to help things along. so everything was going along fine after a few weeks all everything was still alive and healthy and the tank was doing great with crystal clear water and algae-free rocks and sand.

So i added 5 peppermint shrimp and a scarlet hermit last weekend and they all seemed to be doing ok. many of the shrimp molted a few days later but they were all acting normal as far as i could tell.

Anyway, everything was fine until last week when i started to get green algae growth on the rocks and even some hair algae on my hermits shell. I realized I was running the lights too long (they were on throughout the day when I'm not home ~12 hours). I know i was overfeeding as well as I would feed pellets once a day and the guy at the lfs told me to stop to every two days and run the lights only 2-3 hours a day.

Soo, yesterday, i went to the lfs and bought 3 tiny emerald crabs, 2 of those biocube filter cartridges and a package of Deep Blue phosphate reducer. i cut a very long thick strip of the the phosphate reducer and lined chamber 1. then behind that on the bottom i had the old carbon from the previous owner, a small bag of boyds chemipure elite on top, and on top of that the two filter cartridges stacked on top of the other (note that chamber 1 is REALLY deep) with the space behind them filled up with some fluval filter pads (with big holes). on top of that i put a bag of carbon in the third chamber where my heater is. so basically, i had a massive amount of filtration going on back there in hopes i could clear up my water and get rid of phosphates feeding my algae. i should add that the carbon in the third chamber had already been there. all i added yesterday was the two biocube filter cartridges and alot phosphate reducing stuff. big mistake. whatever i did i royally ****ed up because i woke up this morning and nearly everything was dead!! The two clowns, the anemone and all the shrimps lay dead on the floor and the crabs are dead also on some of the rock. the only thing still living is the first original hermit (i can't see the scarlet so idk if he made it) and the starburst polyp which started to bloom a little when i turned the light on.

I hadn't tested my water in a few weeks and while i do have a water test kit, it only tests pH, nitrite, nitrate and ammonia and nothing else. the pH was slightly low (around 8) and the nitrates were in between 0 and 5 ppm last time i checked (it's one of those test kits where you match the color). anyway, i'm so sad and discouraged right now i dont know what to do i feel like i'm gonna cry. if anyone can please help and advise on cleanup or help me know the error of my ways i would really appreciate it.
i dont know if i added too much filtration stuff at once or maybe too much life at once i have no clue but everything just went to **** overnight. :(

[blanden.adam]

I'm sorry to hear about all of that man. It's hard to tell specifically without having been there to watch the process or without more test results, but my suspicion is the fast changing water quality and low lighting hurt the anemone, the anemone began to deteriorate, caused an ammonia spike, and then everything else died as a result. Of course, that's just a theory, but with a small water volume like a biocube without sump-filtration it is all too possible. Anemone's hate fluctuating water parameters. What did the ammonia test when you got to the tank, and what were you using for lighting?

I know how heartbreaking losing your aquatic pets can be. Hang in there. Most of us, including TOTM winners, have been through a tank crash or two. Keep your chin up.

[120reefermadnes]

I'm sorry to hear about all of that man. It's hard to tell specifically without having been there to watch the process or without more test results, but my suspicion is the fast changing water quality and low lighting hurt the anemone, the anemone began to deteriorate, caused an ammonia spike, and then everything else died as a result. Of course, that's just a theory, but with a small water volume like a biocube without sump-filtration it is all too possible. Anemone's hate fluctuating water parameters. What did the ammonia test when you got to the tank, and what were you using for lighting?

I know how heartbreaking losing your aquatic pets can be. Hang in there. Most of us, including TOTM winners, have been through a tank crash or two. Keep your chin up.

+1 just remove anything dead and do water changes like once a week until all water peramiters come into check(get a phosphate test, a refractometer and something to keep an eye on temp and dont go cheap with test kits). Take it slow and let the tank cycle and slowly add inhabitants after all tests come back in check.
Just be patiant and take it slow thats most important.

[jbraslins]

How did you acclimate your new crabs?

If they got stressed and one of them died overnight, that could have set off a cascade reaction.

You've also changed a lot of things about your filtration.

I'd say too many changes too quick could be a huge contributor to the crash. The smaller the tank, the more careful you have to be and taking things slow.

Sorry about your losses. I know it hurts.

[Occane5]

Sorry to hear about your loss. Best thing to do now is a massive water change. If the anemone is dead, it is likely the reason for tank being nuked. Run activated carbon and let tank settle before adding any new livestock. Perhaps get a better test kit vs the color strips. Green hair algae (GHA) likely due to combination of 12 hour photo period and phos. Reducing lights to 2 or 3 hours is ok for short term, ie, a few days but not for long term. Are you running any gfo or phos guard to reduce phos? Btw, are you using RO or RODI water?


My first tank was a BC29 HQI so perhaps I can share some lesson learned. I left chamber 1 open.....cut a small piece of plastic wall separating chamber 1 and 2 for increased water flow. I had an Intank Media basket (w/ water flow director) which forced flow thru various medias in the basket. I also had a Tunze 9002 skimmer in chamber 2. Upgrade stock return pump to MJ1200. I ran my lights for 6 hours. Since you bought the tank used, might want to check if bulb is still good in HQI.

[gonpostal]

All good advice. What are you using for top-off water?

[JHempo]

Thank you all so much! I feel like **** right now but I'm going to get through this. so here's a really quick update. i have to go to church in a little but i thought i'd get on to post this so you guys can have more info. i'll be back after church and lunch with 30 new gallons of water and will check here with you guys before i do anything.

Ok, so i removed all the dead guys. they were 2 clowns, 1 anemone, mushroom coral and like a little palm tree looking thing (coral?), several shrimp and the scooter blenny. the survivors which i put in a pitcher of the water i had saved from the change i did yesterday (i think i forgot to mention that on top of changing all the filters yesterday, i also did a 5 gallon change AND as i was cleaning out the filters today, realized i threw away the bag of carbon which came with the established tank -bad move i'm guessing).
so the survivors were: 1 scarlet, 2 emerald crabs, 1 hermit crab and 1 tiny shrimp which was lingering right by the upper intake into chamber 1.
i don't know if the anemone was the first to die and triggered everything else or it was just another casualty but right now i've taken everything out but the sand and rocks (there were alot of tiny brittle starfish i think that i didn't know i had in there btw but i think they were dying not sure).
i don't know if i should remove the rocks or not so i took two out and placed them in a bucket (with no water cuz i have no more uncontaminated water) and left the other two in the tank. on second thought, i think i'm going to go put them back in the water before i leave for church. im thinking all the nitrogenous compounds in the water in the tank might be good for the bacteria in the rocks (am i right in this logic?)
so yea, that's it. the survivors are in a pitcher of my remaining amount of uncontaminated water and i've got nothing but cloudy water, sand and the rocks in the tank. as far as the back goes, i took out all the Deep Blue phosphate pads (http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Blue-Phosphate-Remover-18X10/dp/B004HSOWU0) and the new biocube filter cartridges i installed yesterday in addition to my boyds chemipure. all i left was the fluval filter pad in front of the intakes of chamber 1 and the original filter pads that came with the tank when it was established. i also left the bag of carbon that was a few weeks old resting halfway between the first and second chamber so that the water flows through it before going into the refugium (on second thought i'm going to put this bag of carbon back in the third chamber so that my refugium filled with copepods and cheato can get the nitrogenous water). many copepods survived by the way before cleaning i noticed that there were a bunch in chamber 3. so yea, i've gotta go my dad here is rushing me about church ill be back later thank you all so much for all the info and support

[kissman]

I have seen people talking on different threads about Deep Blue phosphate reducer and how it caused very high PH spikes and killed everything. Best thing to do is research each products before just adding them. Quick fixes don't usually work. Reduce feedings, run GFO in a reactor to reduce PO4. What kind or brand of test kit are you using?

[FTDelta]

I can see the problem here and there is only one solution to solve this: SLOW DOWN!


The reality is You're not letting your tank cycle completely and you're adding fish, inverts & corals to soon. A cycle takes a minimum of 8 weeks. QT all livestock takes 8 weeks. Small tanks are more suspectible to crashes if you don't know what you're doing. I'm sorry for your losses but what it , is. Slow down and be patient. Saltwater aquaria keeping if all about taking things slow and having patience.

Read and research everything on saltwater keeping - especially in nano tanks. There's very little room for error and you must be on top of things to know what you're doing.

Oh yeah - stop adding livestock and corals all at once. Spread them out in week or two at a time.

[philosophile]

The solution to tank problems is rarely buying more critters for your tank. Adding 5 peppermint shrimp and 3 crabs probably didn't help things.

Think about the ocean. Most of the ocean is empty of macro life with life being concentrated near shallow parts. You need to give the livestock in your tank a lot of water for their waste to be diffused and treated by biological filtration.

[Anemone]

Whenever a tank crashes "overnight," I immediately think oxygen deprivation event. What's your surface water movement/agitation like? A lack of surface oxygen exchange (caused by inadequate surface water movement) can cause a compete tank die off like this.

Several things can contribute to low oxygenation levels in the tank. You went for 12 hours of lighting to 3. During those extra 9 hours of non-lighting, all the algae in your tank (including the Chaeto in the fuge, the green sheen you were complaining about as well as the hair algae) burn oxygen, rather than produce it (as they do through photosynthesis during the light cycle). If you're "close to the edge" oxygen-level wise, then a single death (and the bacterial bloom involved in consuming the dead critter) can cause the oxygen to drop to where other animals can't get enough oxygen, so they die. As they die, more bacteria is produced, stripping more oxygen out of the water, accelerating the whole process.

If this was the cause, the most important change you can make is making sure you have enough surface agitation - either point a return at the surface of the tank, or add a powerhead that's pointed upward.

This whole scenario also works if something else you changed caused the first death (or even several deaths). Nothing good ever happens quickly in a reef tank, so take things slow!

Kevin

[stingythingy45]

You posted a few parameters but never mentioned ammonia?
Didn't the previous owner say there would be a small ammonia spike?
So,how high was the ammonia in this tank?

You need to slow down.Sorry to hear about this crash.
But,you should have let everything stabalize for a few months before adding anything else.

[Sk8r]

My wild guess is that the nem went first due to conditions from a tank rushed a shade too fast, and that (they're incredibly stinky and their stinging cells survive them) spiked ammonia and took everybody out faster than the carbon could uptake it.

Cycle this tank thoroughly before putting anything new in. Also, at any future time you get in trouble, put EVERY ANIMAL into clean salt water (no sand, no rock) in a qt tank.

Sorry this happened: most of us have had a disaster at some point due to some combination of circumstances. I'm guessing here there wasn't enough sand/rock or it wasn't aged enough. Bacteria-in-a-bottle aren't reliable. The bacteria need to penetrate all the way to the heart of a rock, and a light exposure isn't going to do that. Don't try an anemone at all until you've had months of experience, and even then, go carefully: they easily take out a tank.

Just let the pump and lights run and get some tests and an autotopoff system before you get anything else. I have good water parameters in my sig line.

[coralsnaked]

JHempo

I am so sorry to hear that you lost your tank. Must really hurt. I know that losing those critters is hard, but look don't let it get too down or be too hard on yourself; just make
sure you learn from the lesson.

Here's what I know from running multiple JBJ - BC tanks. Can't make fast changes as they become unstable. Even when your water params get wacky you still have to make changes pretty slow. And although people on this site probably get tired of hearing me say it, these cubes need lots of rock to help stabilize them, heck any tank does! Your sump on the back is only 3.0 gallons and the display is only 25.0 gals so water params can get icky - quickie. I would suggest a minimum of 1.5 lbs of well cured rock er gal of water for your tank. I keep mine closer to 2lbs. Not a ton of swimming room left, but I am more into corals than fish anyway. Now is the time to add more cycled rock while you have no live stock in tank. Here’s what I’d do…

Buy some test kits; I suggest Red Sea Pro Marine Care test kit. This covers Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and Alkalinity. Then get the Red Sea Pro Calcium and Magnesium test kits. The best $100 investment you’ll make. You can’t do this without quality test kits. Stay away from the likes of API, Nutrifin, and other lower priced testing equipment as they are basically worst than useless. There are other quality kits from Salifert and others but they are pricier. Also invest in a NSW AT Refractometer from National Instruments for < $50. This is a must as well for maintaining proper salinity. Water quality is not that hard when you have these simple tools and learn how to use them and make the time to do it. This is your investment in a safe quality tank. You’ll also need some food grade water storage containers to purchase and store pre mixed salt water and RODI for top off. So the bottom line is a $200 investment if you don’t have these things. Or plan to spend a lot of time at the LFS getting your water tested X2 weekly.

1. Pull all that filtration out of the back of the tank.

2. Do a 30% water change with good premium salt mixed w/ RODI (NO TAP WATER). Get this from your LFS for now.

3. Add new Cycled Live Rock from LFS to get you to 35 – 40 lbs.

4. Wait for a possible mini cycle to pass. Test water until it reads 0.0 Ammonia, 0.0 Nitrites, and < 5ppm Nitrates. Then…

5. Set up your Mini sump w/

A. Center box top slot = sponge, center slot = 100 Gram carbon bag, bottom slot = Purigen “The Bag” w/ 1.5 TBSP Purigen and ¼ cup PhosGuard mixed in same bag and well closed w/ enclosed zip tie. Be sure to rinse both carbon bag and mixed bag well in RODI several times until clear.

B. In small up-flow boxes on either side place rolled up ½ inch foam filter or floss as secondary filtration. Leave outer boxes w/ pumps empty.

6. You’ll want to clean those sponges weekly as well as change the contents of “The Bag” weekly. Change the Carbon bag monthly.

7. For the 1st 6 months test your water weekly for everything: Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates, Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium. If you detect even a trace of Ammonia or Nitrites something is WRONG ! Don’t panic, but do a 30 % water change as this will reduce them by 1/3 of detected level. If they persist more than 24 hours do another 30% water change and add ammonia reducing filter pad or use Prime for even faster results. Follow directions on Prime label for 25 gals. But this shouldn’t happen because you have lots of rock now w/ a very strong nitrifying and de-nitrifying bio-filter. After 6 months and your tank is established I would test for only: Calcium, Alkalinity and Magnesium weekly and adjust if needed w/ quality supplements like Kent for Nano 2 part. And only test the others if you suspect something is wrong. I would test for Nitrates monthly.

8. Do water changes weekly. Two gals a week is needed since you are not running a skimmer, which are basically useless unless you run a back pack type which defeats the look and purpose of a Bio-Cube IMO. Also allows you to vacuum your substrate which is mandatory.

9. Plan on regular cleaning and maintenance. Here’s what I do once a week. First I clean the inside glass w/ a little Algae scrubber, then I use a turkey baster to blow off the rocks, then I use a vacuum to clean the substrate and remove 2 gals of water in the process. Make sure you have turned off all filtration pumps to do this part. I then add 2 gals of saltwater w/ matching temp by pouring over a small plastic tub to keep from disturbing the tank too much more. Then I wait a couple of hours or next day after tank has cleared to remove the sponges and clean and to change chemical filtration. Then I test my water parameters. My target is: Am = 0.0, Nitrites = 0.0, Nitrates = <5, Ca = 450, Alk = 9.0 dKH, Mg = 1450 Salinity = 1.026, Temp = 78 F. Only after water change and testing should you dose if needed. Can’t begin to tell you how much to dose as every tank runs differently depending on the usage from corals and coralline, as well as amount and type of water utilized.

10. Don’t overload the livestock. If you run a reef tank (Fish and orals) then plan on a short list of fish. Max out at 4 small fish such as Gobies, Fairy Wrasse ect… Bigger fish like clowns then I would go w/ 1 mated pair and maybe one other smaller different shaped fish like a Purple fire fish. 2 Cleaner shrimp are beneficial and fun to keep. No NEMS they can nuke your small tank, right! Past that just a good (CUC) Clean Up Crew of snails and crabs in about the 2 dozen range. Emerald crabs and the like will eat smaller fish like gobies. Stay w/ red –legged crabs for cleaning your rock and substrate. Personally I like crabs better than snails because they are easier to keep and I don’t mind cleaning glass in these Nano tanks. If you keep both then be sure to add lots of empty snail shells or the crabs will murder your snails for the shells. If you have sand go w/ snails and if you have crushed coral or course aragonite then keep crabs. And I would have only ½ inch of any kind of substrate. Just enough to cover the bottom is all I ever use as it is a horrible filtration devise in a nano and usually causes more problems than it’s worth.

With the HQI you can grow pretty much any king of coral you want to. Just need to increase tank flow for LPS corals to a total of 500 GPH and SPS to 750 GPH. A couple of small power heads can get you there. And watch the heat from that tank. The HQI and CF models tend to run about 8 -10 degrees above ambient room temperature. So the room they are in needs to stay at around 70 F. unless you add a 1/15 chiller. You would need a heater if room stays under 66 F.

I hope this helps and here is what your tank can look like in 12 months w/ a little effort.

Merry Skerry

[coralsnaked]

Sorry the photos didn't upload but let me try again

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh578/ahebert401/e1f567ac-5ac6-4cb5-840f-23254fa59056_zps010478b5.jpg

This is a pic of my Bio Cube 12 LED w/ Softie frags started 12 months ago w/ 2 Skunk Clowns that host the GSP during daylight hours Note No Anem

http://i1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh578/ahebert401/060_zps84bc96fd.jpg

A shot of my Bio Cube 28 CF LPS tank started at the same time w/ LPS and a few Acropora

[OrQidz]

I'm sorry to hear about your tank :( I think you are getting some really good advice and information here.

Try not to get too discouraged; look at it as a learning experience. It takes a lot of practice to get the knack of reef tanks and just take it slow, research and one thing at a time.

[Reeferz412]

Reef fast and you crash. Learn it and be patient. You don't need a mess of carbon or emergency phosphate sponges. You cut your light drastically which should be reduced in increments. A lot of things could be pointed out that could have led to this disaster so I myself, can't really give you a straightforward answer as to what could have caused the disaster. The bio load? The instant reduction of light time? The phosphate remover? The huge amount of carbon you had?

Check out Sk8trs stickies on the new to hobby thread and be very patient. If you are, you will do very well in the hobby and do your research!

[Fish Biscuit]

+1 there is alot of great advice on here, read the stickies.

I found w/ my 12 that you have to change the chemistry very slowly, smaller tanks require more work to maintain but it can be done if you don't slack off on anything.

I know the previous owner had a Scooter Blenny in there, but they really aren't suitable for a tank that size. It's like owning a mandarin, even with eating frozen & pellets it will be difficult to maintain unless you like not leaving the house to stay home & feed it 10 times a day.