Newly cycled tank is killing my snails

[erm213]

Hello,

I have a 60 gallon cube, with about a 15 gallon sump. I started it up 1/13/13, and have been cycling it since then (all base rock, and 2 pieces of seed live rock from my LFS). I watched the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates spike, and all come back down to zero levels. Last Friday (3/1/13) I put a chromis in, and it is doing well. I added about a sozen snails yesterday, and they all appeared to have died. I don't understand why? Any clues or suggestions of what I should look for?

Thanks,

Erik

[Surgical]

Did you acclimate or just slam dunk em?

[erm213]

Acclimated. Slowly added tank water over an hour or so. Then took them out of the acclimation water and into the tank.

Erik

[amutti]

You should drip acclimate snails over at least an hour . . . Some snails are more sensitive than others but dripping for an hour will pretty much guarantee success.

[erm213]

You should drip acclimate snails over at least an hour . . . Some snails are more sensitive than others but dripping for an hour will pretty much guarantee success.

I did acclimate for an hour, it wasn't drip, I would just add small amount of tank water every couple of minutes. This isn't like I lost a few, they all died. I can try again with a longer acclimation period, but iIdo not think that was the cause.

Erik

[jcmjoe]

Hopefully not a dumb question but you didnt get any copper in the water by any chance did you?

[erm213]

Hopefully not a dumb question but you didnt get any copper in the water by any chance did you?

Not that I am aware of. It is a new tank, new sand, new rock (except for the seed rock from the LFS). I didn't add any copper. The only additive I have used was Brightwell Aquatics MicrōBacter7.

Thanks,

Erik

[jcmjoe]

The water that the Chromis came in didnt get into the tank did it? I know that all my LFS keep copper in the Fish systems of their store. Good Luck!

[spieszak]

polyfilters turn blue when they absorb copper. Cheaper than a copper test when your doubtful there is any.
I've never over acclimated snails. Little bit of tank water and temp acclimation, and its worked for me. Inverts can be a lot more sensitive though. Knowing the ph an salinity of the water they came from compared to your water would be telling as far as acclimation problems are concerned. (IMO)

[erm213]

The water that the Chromis came in didnt get into the tank did it? I know that all my LFS keep copper in the Fish systems of their store. Good Luck!

Nope, they were acclimated like the like the snails were.

Good idea though.

Erik

[erm213]

Salinity is 1.025. LFS water was 1.023. My ph is 8.2. I didn't measure what the ph of the LFS water was. I will put some poly filter in tonight to be sure.

Thanks,

Erik

[Deinonych]

I would guess it's something other than acclimation - possibly heavy metals or something in the water. Most snails are intertidal so they can tolerate swings in pH and salinity fairly well.

[Squidmotron]

I never slow acclimate snails and they are very resilient. I think something's up in your tank. I second the testing for copper idea.

I assume they're dying quickly. If they're dying slowly, you could simply not have enough food for them yet.

[erm213]

OK, other than copper tests, any other suggested tests?

Do you think large water changes would be in order? I don't want to add any more livestock until I get a handle on what happened. So far I am stumped. I hope its not copper.

Erik

[moatdaddy]

Okay my opinion is simply they are starving. Had this happen a number of times. Was there an ov abundance of algae when you added them. Or have you been feeding nori?

[jBugg]

I thought you shouldn't drip acclimate snails after shipping: http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=67

Ugh, assuming they were shipped...

[erm213]

Okay my opinion is simply they are starving. Had this happen a number of times. Was there an ov abundance of algae when you added them. Or have you been feeding nori?

There was some algae, not an abundance. They died within a day of putting them in the tank. I wouldn't think they would starve that quickly.

Erik

[mikecc67548]

Without reading actual post.....it's not the Newly cycled tank is killing my snails. It's YOU killing them.

[erm213]

I thought you shouldn't drip acclimate snails after shipping: http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17&Itemid=67

Ugh, assuming they were shipped...

They were not. From the LFS.

[erm213]

Without reading actual post.....it's not the Newly cycled tank is killing my snails. It's YOU killing them.

Great. Now help me figure out what I am doing to kill them. I prefer to not kill them.

[HumbleFish]

Just a shot in the dark: Do you have any weird looking red or brown algae (with bubbles) growing in the tank? If so, could be dinos which has been known to wipe out snails.

[kissman]

I would assume there is not enough food in the sand bed and on the rocks and they may be starving

[t4zalews]

Did you acclimate or just slam dunk em?

I found the term "just slam dunk em" so funny, literally laughed out loud in the middle of my quiet office. :lmao:

Snails die if there isn't enough to eat. I've had extremely hard time even giving them algae sheets as they never seem to find it.

[Rognin]

Are you using RO/DI water?

[erm213]

Just a shot in the dark: Do you have any weird looking red or brown algae (with bubbles) growing in the tank? If so, could be dinos which has been known to wipe out snails.

Yes there is a brown algae, and there are tiny air bubbles that come on this. Now to do some homework on dino's

Erik

[erm213]

I would assume there is not enough food in the sand bed and on the rocks and they may be starving

Again, they are dying in less than a day. I wouldn't think they are starving that quickly.

[erm213]

Are you using RO/DI water?

Yes on RO/DI. TDS meter is 0 on output.

Erik

[kissman]

have you tested Salinity with and Refractometer and are you using calibration solution to calibrate? and not RO water?


What are your PO4 levels? Some inverts tolerate then better than others.

[Dholmblad]

Did you acclimate or just slam dunk em?

I always slam dunk them. FROM DOWNNNNN TOWNNNNNN

[erm213]

have you tested Salinity with and Refractometer and are you using calibration solution to calibrate? and not RO water?


What are your PO4 levels? Some inverts tolerate then better than others.

Salinity is 1.025, tested with a refractometer. It has been calibrated with solution, not RO water.

PO4 was .12 on my Hanna checker (that was a week ago, will do another test tonight).

Erik

[kissman]

.12 is high not sure if its high enough to kill. But the Hannas are .05+/- off so it could be closer to .17 or .07. Which Hanna are you using? I like the ULR 736 its a little more accurate since it measure in ppb instead of ppm. I have always just let a bag of snails float for 20 min to adjust to temp and dump them in. So I don't think that was the problem. I would take a sample to LFS and have them run a series of tests including copper and see how it comes out. Just to make sure, all your test are accurate. No need to buy a copper test kit they should be able to do it.

[HumbleFish]

Yes there is a brown algae, and there are tiny air bubbles that come on this. Now to do some homework on dino's

I had a dino outbreak, and the first thing that happened is all my snails just froze in place and died. I can't remember if my research determined it was due to the snails eating the dinos, or if the dinos released a toxin into the water that was lethal to them. I think it was the latter, because snails added after the initial outbreak all survived (as I recall).

If you do have dinos, then you have a much bigger problem than just snails dying. I had to go 3-day lights out (once a month) for months to eradicate the problem. Post pics of the algae if you can. It's pretty easy to confirm.

[kissman]

Here is a great read on Dino's.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-05/eb/index.php

[matt888]

I'd seriously consider doing a sanity check with calibrating your refractometer WITH RO/DI water! Take freshly filtered water, calibrate to "0", and then check your tank water. I don't trust "calibration fluid" any more than a quick check with RO/DI. I had calibration fluid that was at 1.037 a yr ago that ruined my party until I checked it against another tank and RO/DI water...

[erm213]

I'd seriously consider doing a sanity check with calibrating your refractometer WITH RO/DI water! Take freshly filtered water, calibrate to "0", and then check your tank water. I don't trust "calibration fluid" any more than a quick check with RO/DI. I had calibration fluid that was at 1.037 a yr ago that ruined my party until I checked it against another tank and RO/DI water...

Certainly would not hurt to check against RO/DI water. I am running another tank, and have no salinity issue with it, so I doubt it is out, but will double check.

Erik

[matt888]

Certainly would not hurt to check against RO/DI water. I am running another tank, and have no salinity issue with it, so I doubt it is out, but will double check.

Erik

Sure, just remember that even in a perfect world, the refractometer will be off by .001-.002 when using RODI due to being so far off the range you are interested in (1.024-1.026). If anything, this may help you with other issues another day! Good luck!

[erm213]

Ok, snapped some pictures quickly with the phone. Are these dinos?

Erik

[kissman]

Looks like Dino's could also be Cyano. But the fact that your snails are dying I would say Dino's they are very common in new tanks

[erm213]

Looks like Dino's could also be Cyano. But the fact that your snails are dying I would say Dino's they are very common in new tanks

Thanks, any suggestions of how to attack it? I am going to start my research now. There is nothing besides a single Chromis in the tank, and it can easily be removed if need be.

Erik

[kissman]

I would say do your research increase flow in tank. They may burn them selves out since the tank is new. Just do some reading and decide which direction you want to take if they get worse

[erm213]

I would say do your research increase flow in tank. They may burn them selves out since the tank is new. Just do some reading and decide which direction you want to take if they get worse

Will do. Thanks. I am going lights out for now while I figure it out. Will adjust as needed.

Erik

[erm213]

Small update. I have confirmed there is no copper. I am still running lights out. I blasted the rocks with a turkey baster to remove as much as possible, and once it was all on the filter sock, I changed it out. I plan on doing that daily for now. I am thinking about dosing some hydrogen peroxide as well.

Erik