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OrionN
03/09/2013, 04:11 PM
Many anemone keepers know, the collection and shipping process from ocean to local fish store (LFS) is a stressful event. Most host anemones do not survive this process without help, especially H. magnifica and S. gigantea. Other host anemones also have high mortality. Most succumb to infection in the first 4 weeks on arrival to LFS. With help from other anemone keepers at ReefCentral.com Anemones and Clownfish Forum, I have come up with an antibiotic protocol that seems to be successful and drastically improve the initial survival of anemones during this critical time.

The antibiotic choice: Ciprofloxacin (Cipro), a floroquinone antibiotic or Trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Septra) combination antibiotic
There are several reasons I choose these antibiotics. They are broad spectrum antibiotics that should, hopefully, cover most pathogens involved. These antibiotics covered most of the pathogens involved in a saltwater wound infection in humans. This is not to say that pathogen that infected the anemones are the same ones that infected human. However, we have to start somewhere and these two antibiotic are reasonable choices. The other reason for choosing these antibiotic is that they are inexpensive and widely available. Cipro and Septra dissolve well in water and will break down with light exposure in a tank environment. Another antibiotic that can be use is levofloxacin (Levaquin). However, Levaquin is a newer fluroquinone and much more expensive because generic are not available.


Instruction:
The dosage for continuous exposure (not dipping) in a hospital tank is Cipro 250 mg or Septra 160/800 mg per every 10 gal of water. I recommended that anemone be treated in hospital tank. I used a standard 20 gallon (high) tank, power head (PH) , heater, egg crate and possibly an air stone. I also recommended that full light is provide for the anemone to help it recover via photosynthesis. The hospital tank is divide into two compartments by the egg crate. Place the anemone with an inert object (a mug or a medium piece of rock) for it to attach to in one compartment. In the other compartment place the heater, PH and +/-air stone.
Fill the hospital tank half way (10 gal) and added either Septra or Cipro, then added the sick anemone. The hospital tank water needs to be keep stable with respect to temperature and salinity. I recommend that all the water in hospital tank be change daily as the day-time cycle comes to an end. After a water change add antibiotic. The best method to add antibiotic into the hospital tank is to rub the tablet between thumb and index finger in front of the PH until fully dissolved. With reasonable light, it is likely that all or most of the antibiotic will be degraded by the end of the day-time cycle. Adding medication at the begin of the night-time cycle, should give optimal antibiotic exposure for the anemone for most of the 24 hour time period. Adequate circulation, with small PH, is a must. The hospital tank will have a minimal ability to process ammonia, therefore feeding sick anemone is not recommended during treatment process. I do not recommend tapering the dosage of the antibiotic because low level antibiotic treatment is what causes problems and creates resistant strains of bacteria.
Anemones often discharge various substance when they are not well. When the hospital tank water have solid discharge, I recommend removal of these discharge. At any time, if the water of the hospital tank is cloudy, I recommend a 100% water change and new antibiotic added.

Length of treatment:
It is recommended that the anemone is treated for a minimum of 7 days, and at least 3 days after it stops deflating. Early termination of treatment is a mistake that has caused me to loose a few anemones.

Disposal of antibiotic containing water:
There is no special treatment needed for disposing water containing antibiotics. Cipro and Septra will break down quickly with light exposure and will not stay around long in the environment. Short course of antibiotic use like in this protocol should not have significant impact on the environment. It is harmful for the environment if there is a continuous low level antibiotic discharge, but not for short courses like in this protocol . In human usage, these two antibiotics are eliminated unchanged by the kidney, and flushed down the toilet into the sewage system, which is what we are doing with our treatment water. It is unclear if treatment by bleach will do anything to the antibiotic. If you are concerned, store the water and put it under sunlight for a few days then discard.
I clean the hospital tank and all equipments thoroughly include bleaching the full set up in fresh water. Once thoroughly cleaned, the hospital tank can be dry and put into storage until needed.

I will link most of the threads here on RC about the antibiotic treatment of a sick anemone, to this thread. Please feel free to add a link of you own thread to the list. This way we can learn from each other and hopefully do a better job at keeping these beautiful animals alive. I am sure I overlooked a few threads. Please add any other threads as you see fit.
__________________________________


Amoo's Sick Nem Treatment Protocol:
Let me start by saying most of my research wouldn't exist without what OrionN (Mihn) started on Reefcentral.com years ago. Most all of my treatments have been done on H. Mag and BTAs so my experience applies in different areas. For the sake of this treatment I am only going to go over how I treat H. Mags from the time they arrive until they hopefully go into a DT. I've had good luck with not bleaching my nems and getting most of them to survive.

Medications:
While I am experimenting with other medications, the only drugs I am comfortable recommending at this point are the same basic ones Mihn uses. I get 500mg Ciprofloxacin (Cipro) tablets and 400mg/80mg Sulfamethoxazole and Trimethoprim (SMZ & TP) tablets. Individual dosing will be explained below.

Arrival:
Upon arrival of the Nem I immediately float the Nem bag, to acclimate it to tank temperature. This is done for 30 minutes. A clean 5 gallon bucket is then used and the contents of the bag are placed in the bucket. At this point I visually inspect the Nem for signs of damage and immediately give it a condition score. (I will explain the scoring system at the end of this article.) 9 times out of 10 I will drip acclimate the Nem for about 30-45 minutes before placing it in quarantine tank (QT). There have been times I have had a Nem arrive in such bad shape and water that I have immediately moved it to QT without drip acclimation. Note: This is not the preferred method, but as I buy almost all of my specimen from the same vendor I know what water params to setup my QT for (I still double check to ensure).

QT Setup:
My QT setup is slightly different then Mihn's so I will go into detail about it here. I choose to use a two tank approach. I believe in using two tanks because it allows me to fully clean EVERYTHING in the tank. As I am working with a smaller species I can afford to get away with two 10g tanks. Both tanks are equipped with a divider, heater (79F), power-head, fresh salt water, a coffee mug AND a cycled bio-wheel HOB filter. There is a full spectrum light (Par 38 14000K Full Spectrum Dimmable Reef Light (Coral Compulsion))with a manual dimmer hanging 12" above one tank at a time (I manually move it when I move the nem). Remember this is still a QT tank until we begin treatment.

My first order of business is to slowly begin light acclimating (12 hours with 10 hours of full light) the Nem and observe it. I will not start treatment for a minimum of 6-8 hours on a freshly shipped Nem. I first allow it time to adjust to the new tank conditions and lighting. If it has not shown any signs of improvement (scoring system) I will then begin treatment. Usually there is some improvement and I will give the Nem until the first lights out period to see if it continues to improve. Typically anything above a 5 and I start treatment after 6-8 hours. Anything below I let it ride until "sundown". Once I make the decision to start treatment (Tx), it immediately becomes lights out, I remove the Bio-wheel HOB and dose 250mg/10Gal of Cipro. I then give a strict 12 hours until further action is taken.

Treatment:
IMPORTANT: At the same time I dose the occupied tank with 250mg/10gal of Cipro I dose the second "empty" tank with Cipro as well.

After the first 12 hour, medicated lights out treatment, I immediately move the Nem to the second tank which already had it's HOB removed before dosing. I move the clamp light and begin it's light therapy for the day. At this point I tear down the first tank, take all components outside to clean and dry. Once dry, I bring everything back in and fill the tank with fresh SW and all of it's gadgets. Once it's time for complete lights out, I move the Nem again to this fresh tank and dose 250mg/10gal of Cipro, only to this tank this time.

Note: I feel the 12 hour water changes are important for the first day and a half, beyond that I allow a nem to remain in the same tank for 24 hours unless the tank becomes extremely cloudy.

Once through that first day, I have my second tank setup and ready to go by lights out and move the Nem over for his nightly Cipro dose. Prior to moving him is when I score him for the day. I maintain a 250mg/10gal dose of Cipro for the first 3 lights out periods regardless of score.

Increasing Dosage or Changing Medications:
After 3 lights out periods I check my pictures and scores and determine if my current treatment appears to be working. If he has come down 2-3 points from where he started, I continue on the same path. If he has not shown improvement or his score has increased I change my dosage. My first line of action is to increase the daily Cipro dosage to 500mg/10gal. This is again done for 3 lights out periods.

After three lights out periods I assess my pictures and notes and determine where to go from there. If things are improving I back off on my Cipro dose, back down to 250mg. If things are not improving, I still back down on my Cipro dose to 250mg but also add 400mg/80mg of SMZ & TP. Things are again maintained for 3 lights out periods.

If you're still reading, things aren't going well and it's probably decision time. Hopefully by this point your nem is close to a 2-3 at worst, but if it's still above 5 and hasn't shown significant improvement it's time to start really hitting it hard. If things are still bad I will double my dose of both Cipro to 500mg/10gal and SMZ & TP to 800mg/160mg. I do this for 3 lights out periods. Anything beyond this point with the Nem not improving significantly is still experimental and not something I'm ready to recommend yet.

Amoo's Severity Scoring System:

0 - Healthy Nem
1 - Tentacles shortened, still fully inflated, mouth tight, responsive to touch
2 - Tentacles shortened, still fully inflated, mouth slightly droopy, responsive to touch
3 - Tentacles shortened, still fully inflated, mouth slightly open, responsive to touch
4 - Tentacles shortened, still fully inflated, mouth open, responsive to touch
5 - Tentacles shortened, still fully inflated, mouth gaping open with insides exposed, responsive to touch
6 - Tentacles shortened, partially inflates, mouth gaping open with insides exposed, responsive to touch
7 - Tentacles shortened, inflates and deflates multiple times daily, mouth gaping open with insides exposed, responsive to touch
8 - Tentacles shortened, most always deflated, mouth gaping open with insides exposed, responsive to touch
9 - Tentacles shortened, always deflated, mouth gaping open with insides exposed, barely responsive to touch
10 - Tentacles shortened, always deflated, mouth gaping open with insides exposed, non-responsive to touch
11 - Mush (Sorry )
_________________________________

1) OrionN's H. Mag
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2220652 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2220652)

2) Reef1589's S. Gigantea
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2247231 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2247231)

3) Slickcg33's S. Gigantea
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2252486 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2252486)

4) Teejay77's S. Gigantea
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2262036 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2262036)

5) PTR13's S. Gigantea
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2259228 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2259228)

6) Winwood's S. Haddoni
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2260164 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2260164)

7) OrionN's S. gigantea from Petco
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2329256 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2329256)

8) Ron Popeil's Anemone's and Antiobiotics
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2111858 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2111858)

9) Beuchat Pedal Laceration.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1942967 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1942967)

10) Winwood's H. Mag
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2184538 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2184538)

11) illcssd's treating bacterial infections in host anemone's.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2156179 (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2156179)

12) Amoo's Nem Treatments
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2421087

benjaminspades
03/09/2013, 07:41 PM
Thank you I have been following your method for a while now and have saved quite a few but at the same time I do see losses especially after ship out. Conventional shipping has yielded that fast change in water params makes the gigas spew something during shipping taht clouds the water. I suspect that this might be what is causing the fast degradation during ship out. I am unsure why it is this way but I would want to continue improving the methods with you so hopefully we can find a solution together.

benjaminspades
03/09/2013, 07:42 PM
I have a few questions also ygpm

SNAKEMANVET
03/09/2013, 08:24 PM
Great write up Minh.

cichlidconvert
03/10/2013, 01:33 AM
I've been building a tank for a carpet and now with work like this I'm more confident in a h.mag or gig species tank. This is an important thread IMO:)

OrionN
03/16/2013, 07:40 AM
Just a note to Anemone newbies. H. magnifica (Ritteri, Magnifica) and S. Gigantea (Gig, Shaggy Carpet, Gigantea, Giant Carpet) are very difficult anemones to keep. They are among the hardest animal to keep in our reef tank. Please commit yourself before you attempt to keep one of these. Please research their requirement. Please set up their QT tank such that you can keep it there fairly long term if needed (1 month or more). They got to have temp, salinity stability and high light with good circulation in the QT. Water condition got to be keep great even in QT.

ezhoops
03/21/2013, 07:18 PM
How and where do i get cipro?

OrionN
03/21/2013, 08:59 PM
You can get a dentist, vet or doctor to prescribed for you. You can also buy it on ebay. Antibiotic for fish without prescription.

joeyjoe35
03/21/2013, 10:10 PM
http://www.aquaticpharmacy.com/product-info
I just bought a bottle from here.

benjaminspades
03/22/2013, 05:48 PM
Just a note to Anemone newbies. H. magnifica (Ritteri, Magnifica) and S. Gigantea (Gig, Shaggy Carpet, Gigantea, Giant Carpet) are very difficult anemones to keep. They are among the hardest animal to keep in our reef tank. Please commit yourself before you attempt to keep one of these. Please research their requirement. Please set up their QT tank such that you can keep it there fairly long term if needed (1 month or more). They got to have temp, salinity stability and high light with good circulation in the QT. Water condition got to be keep great even in QT.

What temperatures and salinity is best?

OrionN
03/22/2013, 06:01 PM
I keep my Gigantea at 83F. I keep gigantea at higher temp than normal because Rod Beuler who had the longest Gigantea in captivity (18+ years) keep his at high temp also, up to 86F, if I remember correctly. Rod stated that if the temp get below 80 his Gigantea would "looks off".
I never have any problem with keep the tank at 83 degree so I have not change. My tank is very stable temp wise with controler.
Salinity, I keep all my tank at 35ppt and have not seen any reason to change that.

benjaminspades
03/22/2013, 06:03 PM
35ppt is 1.025? and temperature at 83 degrees?!

benjaminspades
03/22/2013, 06:04 PM
wowzers I am at 78 do I raise it overnight??

OrionN
03/22/2013, 06:21 PM
salinity stay constant with temp change but SG change with temp. There is a conversion table somewhere but I always use refractometer so I never pay attention to SG.
If you can easy control your temp. I would increase it by a degree or two every day. I do not think that increase ofer several hours would be a problem, but we really don't need to increase it that quick. When I first got my Gigantea, I increase temp of my tank from 80 degree to 84 over several days (4 days I think) but do not think that it is is detrimental for them to increase it quicker.

benjaminspades
03/22/2013, 06:46 PM
Do you know the reason to why they need warmer water?

OrionN
03/22/2013, 07:28 PM
No I do not

Reef1589
03/22/2013, 08:08 PM
Do you know the reason to why they need warmer water?

In the wild they are usually in Warmer Water's.. ( S. Gig's that is ) because htey are found on the shallow reef's, where tides come and go and sometimes sit out in the sun for several hours before tide comes back... the shallower water = warmer temperature's .

i keep my S. Gig's are at 81-82..

Rotknee
03/25/2013, 06:58 PM
Hey Minh...

First of all, thank you sharing your success with us. I lost a couple of gigs in the past two years and was a little nervous about trying again until I knew I could do something different to increase my chances of success. I think you found that something different that is going to benefit us all.

Are you concerned about ammonia at all? It is my understanding that any measurable amount of ammonia is harmful. When setting up these new hospital tanks are the 50% water changes enough to keep the ammonia levels in check?

OrionN
03/25/2013, 07:25 PM
Not feeding plus change 50% of the water and suck out any discharge from the anemone should be enough to keep ammonia level not detectable

God.
03/28/2013, 05:52 PM
I believe it would be best to use water from your display for the water in your QT, thus eliminating the typical ammonia spike problems.

As for temp, my tank spiked up to 89 with a problem. My zoas closed and my 24 head frogspawn melted but man was my gig lookin good. I usually keep my tank at 83-84 like minh. Had my big blue for a year now, no problems.

alprazo
04/07/2013, 01:10 PM
Just want to note that I had success treating a H. haddoni with 3 consecutive days of 5 hours cipro baths. The anemone was removed from the tank and placed into 3 gallons of cipro treated tank water. It was then returned to the tank after each treatment. It took an additional five days to show improvment.

ca1ore
04/08/2013, 06:04 PM
Is it a good idea to use this treatment for all ritteri, etc, or only if worrisome symptoms present themselves?

OrionN
04/08/2013, 06:57 PM
I recommend only treat sick anemones. I would not treat healthy anemone "just in case" they are sick. Quarantine and treat if sick.

ca1ore
04/08/2013, 09:29 PM
I recommend only treat sick anemones. I would not treat healthy anemone "just in case" they are sick. Quarantine and treat if sick.

That would be my inclination also; I've just read quite a few threads here that lament 'if only I'd started treatment sooner' .....

OrionN
04/08/2013, 09:59 PM
I think these are the cases where the reefers were not prepared, Med or equipment needed for treatment. There were never a question of if the anemone need treatment but how soon can the treatment started.

greech
04/30/2013, 08:52 PM
Is it possible to use a dip process with this medication? If one were to give the anemone a treatment bath for several hours in an unlighted dip tank, would that provide a similar result?

Reefomania
05/16/2013, 03:53 PM
My green carpet Anemone had a gaping mouth and was not doing well. I received the specimen 30 days ago in perfect condition from one of my suppliers on the west coast. I placed the carpet in a Solanas 60 gallon mature reef tank with excellent water parameters. All of the other corals in this tank looked great including a vibrant pink bubble tip. For some reason the Green Carpet took a turn for the worst and started shrinking up in the tank and not attaching. I am trying your cure and would like to post my results; win or lose,but I am hoping for success! I am two days into it. So far I have setup a 5 gallon hospital tank and added 125mg tetracycline on day 1 as I did not have any Cipro on hand. My GF had some leftover so I used it out of sheer resourcefulness or should I say desperation. Not many people willing to write scripts for fish tanks around here. However, I was lucky to source Cipro from a local dentist who wrote me out a script even though the Anenome was not a patient :) Cost me $10 for 12 250mg tabs at CVS in case anyone is curious. I am now on the Cipro starting day 2. So far so good. I am taking pics and keeping track of everything. How and where do I post a thread with pics?

ca1ore
05/24/2013, 09:43 AM
I bought FishFlox from VetDepot sans prescription, and a 5 day course following OrioN's suggested approach brought my Mag back from the brink.

OrionN
05/24/2013, 12:20 PM
....I am taking pics and keeping track of everything. How and where do I post a thread with pics?

Reply with the "Go Advanced" instead of "Post Quick Reply". Scroll down to "Manage Attachments" and attach the pictures from your files. Max size for the picture is 800X800.

Hope this help

Daniel62
05/31/2013, 01:09 PM
Has anyone used this treatment on BTA?

OrionN
06/21/2013, 01:20 PM
Has anyone used this treatment on BTA?

This treatment likely work with all the anemone species. If you treat another anemone species please add your information so that we all can learn from it.

D-Nak
08/08/2013, 03:36 PM
Unfortunately, it looks like I'm going to have to add one to the loss column. I picked up a very small, 3.5" red haddoni (100% positive ID, not a tapetum) exactly one week ago today. It was inflated but its mouth was gaping so I immediately began QT with nightly doses of 250mg Cipro. This is the same 10 gallon QT set-up that I used to successfully treat a S. gigantea.

Each day the haddoni got progressively worse. I was removing brown pellets each morning.

Today I will probably pull the plug. It has fully not inflated for a couple of days now, and its mouth is gaping and I can see the innards starting to disintegrate. Tough loss. Had it made it it would've been a stunning specimen. I'm guessing that since it was so small it didn't have the energy v. surface area to rid it of its ailment.

Jeff000
08/11/2013, 11:23 AM
Any idea on how Amoxicillin would work?

gcline87
08/11/2013, 11:51 AM
This is the first time I have ever heard of using antibiotics as a treatment for anything in a reef tank. All I have to say is wow we love our anemones. Thanks for the education.

Reloadeddevil
08/11/2013, 12:49 PM
Tagging along

ca1ore
08/11/2013, 12:51 PM
I have sucessfully used fish flox to treat cardinal tetras - ok, not reef fish, but still.

Sparkpaul
08/21/2013, 09:53 AM
I have 3 anemone in my dt; rbta (1 year old), green haddoni (6 months), and a red haddoni (2 months).

I added a blue haddoni few weeks ago and it died.

At the time, I didn't think too much of it.
Just thought I had bad luck because rest of the anemones were doing well.
Soon, the rbta started to lose color and started to hide in the rocks.
Then the green haddoni started inflate deflate after eating a dead Hawaiian tang.

The red haddoni is the size of a silver dollar, so I can't tell if it's inflating/deflating.
It seems fine and it's eating quite frequently.

Can I do a cipro dip? If so, how? because I don't have a separate tank.
I guess I can go buy one but I don't know if the QT tank condition will be stable.

I have sps, lps, and softies.... can I drop cipro into the dt?

Any suggestion is appreciated, thanks guys!

AD87
08/21/2013, 09:55 AM
Does anyone know how long the treament should last? Is, lets say 12 days to long?

OrionN
08/21/2013, 10:14 AM
I have 3 anemone in my dt; rbta (1 year old), green haddoni (6 months), and a red haddoni (2 months).

I added a blue haddoni few weeks ago and it died.
....
This may or may not cause the other anemones to get sick. These infections are not 100% infectious


Soon, the rbta started to lose color and started to hide in the rocks.
This may or may not due to the blue Haddoni


Then the green haddoni started inflate deflate after eating a dead Hawaiian tang.
If the dead tang was killed by the anemone, it likely OK but if the tang was dead for a while, like several hours, then it likely is full of bacterial and by eatting it, the anemone will end up with a full load of bacterial in it inside and get sick from this.


Can I do a cipro dip? If so, how? because I don't have a separate tank.
I guess I can go buy one but I don't know if the QT tank condition will be stable.

I have sps, lps, and softies.... can I drop cipro into the dt?
We should not use broad spectrum antibiotic in DT. The whole biological filtration of our tank depends on bacterial. Using a broad spectrum antibiotic on the tank will likely crash the tank, or best case really screw up the biological filtration.
DON'T DO IT

Sparkpaul
08/21/2013, 12:13 PM
You are right, the tang was dead on the bottom of the tank. It was full of ichs the day before. Some one thought the anemone should eat it.

I will take your advice and get a QT tomorrow. It's not worth the risk at all.

Can I have both rbta and green haddoni in the same QT?

Thank you for your advice, I'll keep everyone updated.

D-Nak
08/21/2013, 12:48 PM
Can I have both rbta and green haddoni in the same QT?

I realize that most people can't set up two QT tanks, but ideally treatment should be administered separately. Also, I can't stress the importance of running the full course when using Cipro -- from 5-7 days. Antibiotics can show results almost immediately, but the key is to make sure that it wipes everything out, hence the 5-7 day course.

AD87
08/21/2013, 12:57 PM
D-Nak, how long is too long though when treating? Im only on day 4.

Sparkpaul
08/21/2013, 12:58 PM
What is the minimum size tank I need to get? For filtration, can I use hob filter with flourecent light?

D-Nak
08/21/2013, 01:06 PM
D-Nak, how long is too long though when treating? Im only on day 4.

5 to 6 days is recommended. I have treated nems for 7 days, then observed them in QT without meds for another week or so. If all is well, they return to the DT.

What is the minimum size tank I need to get? For filtration, can I use hob filter with flourecent light?

Since 250mg is the typical size of a Cipro tablet, I recommend a 10 gallon tank as the minimum size since it's the easiest to dose.

No filtration is needed in the tank. If you were to run carbon filters, it would remove the medication. You can use an empty HOB filter to provide water movement if you like. Per Minh's original treatment recommendation, I use a small powerhead and heater on one side of the tank, separated by an eggcrate wall, which prevents the nem from floating and getting sucked into the powerhead or burned by the heater. Since you're doing a 50% water change every day, pollutants shouldn't be an issue.

Lighting depends on the condition and species of nem being treated. For example, for gigantea and magnifica, you can blast them with light. I've used both a 250 watt halide and a Kessil A150. Both worked well, though the Kessil was better since it didn't produce any heat. Keep in mind that light breaks down Cipro, so treatment should be done at night after lights out.

Sparkpaul
08/21/2013, 07:19 PM
Got it!
I live in Taiwan and it's fairly hot 80f+ thru out the day, do I need a heater?

If I don't have hallide? Should I get one or can i have the tank outside with natural lighting? It's overcast in taipei right now.

OrionN
08/21/2013, 09:24 PM
D-Nak, how long is too long though when treating? Im only on day 4.
You should treat it for 3-4 days more after it return to essentially normal. Likely 7-10 days total. If it does not responsed, by 10 days it is likely dead already.

OrionN
08/21/2013, 09:26 PM
Got it!
I live in Taiwan and it's fairly hot 80f+ thru out the day, do I need a heater?

If I don't have hallide? Should I get one or can i have the tank outside with natural lighting? It's overcast in taipei right now.
It need temp stability. I think 5 degree swing from day to night is likely too much. Don't quote me on this because I do not have experience with this type of temp swing in my tank.
I put a fan on the tank during the day. Heater on at night. Tmp swing is often within 2 degree at the max

Sparkpaul
08/22/2013, 06:43 AM
I got everything setup but I have a problem. My green haddoni is stuck on the rock and it won't budge. I tried my best to yank him out but no luck. I think I might kill it before I get him out of the dt.

I guess I will treat the rbta first.

Any suggestions on how to remove Mr Green?
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/sunaganu.jpg

This is him before eating the Hawaii tang about 3 weeks ago.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/ypu8a7y3.jpg

This is my red haddoni today.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/degegu8y.jpg

This is the QT with rbta
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/7e5uhejy.jpg

OrionN
08/22/2013, 07:08 AM
That green carpet is a Gigantea instead of Haddoni. You can remove the whole rock to treatment. You can put a larger PVC pipe over him. He will move and attach to the PVC and you then can remove the PVC.
Hie is a very nice Gigantea. Good luck with him.

Sparkpaul
08/22/2013, 07:24 AM
OrionN, thank you for pointing that out. Unfortunately he is stuck to my main tree so i can remove the entire rock however I got him out by using a credit card (master card) with some patience.

This is my Tree and it's located in my kindergarten called Tree House Academy in Taipei, Taiwan.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/ty8ype2y.jpg

Sparkpaul
08/22/2013, 07:49 AM
I ground the cipro into fine powder with my master card, turned off the lights and mixed it into the tank.

I should change water after 24 hours. Do I need to dose again after water change? Or is it just one dosage?

I will turn on the lights in the morning and turn it off again at the same time.

Day 0, 8 pm taipei time: This is them in the QT
I have never seen mr green with his mouth gaping open before. Does he have a chance?
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/uhebyqep.jpg

OrionN
08/22/2013, 09:32 AM
Very nice tank

Sparkpaul
08/22/2013, 09:52 AM
Is the gigantea dead?

OrionN
08/22/2013, 11:48 AM
No it is not bu un happy. Wait to see how he response

Sparkpaul
08/22/2013, 12:40 PM
thank you for your response... i don't know how i became so attached to my anemone :(

Sparkpaul
08/22/2013, 11:22 PM
Day 0, 15 hours: I just switched on the lights. This is Mr. Green and his mouth is closed so I can only guess he is doing better because his mesentry and pharynx are not showing.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/unynuty7.jpg

I hope the light will do him some good.

This is the rbta
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/a5urytaq.jpg

Sparkpaul
08/23/2013, 03:32 AM
Day 0, 20 hours:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/betugeda.jpg

D-Nak
08/23/2013, 04:25 AM
Day 0, 20 hours:

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/betugeda.jpg

It's looking better! Keep it up. Follow the protocol exactly as stated in the sticky and you should be fine.

Sparkpaul
08/23/2013, 04:32 AM
So i change 50% of the water, do i dose again after?

OrionN
08/23/2013, 06:31 AM
How much water in the treatment tank?
If you have 10 gal in the treatment tank, then change 5 gal and dose 250 mg Cipro. Cipro dissolves very easy so you don't have to ground it to a powder. Just hold it in your finger and rub it in front of the PH. It dissolves quickly in a min or so. The current will carry it to the rest of the tank.

OrionN
08/23/2013, 06:32 AM
He does look a lot better. Good luck with him.

Sparkpaul
08/23/2013, 08:29 AM
After 24 hours before lights off.
How is he doing?

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/u7y2e5y6.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/hymegave.jpg

saltwaterguy718
08/26/2013, 03:39 PM
I wanted to thank you for posting this. My gig that I just purchased last week had signs of being sick one day after putting him in my tank. I started treatment with cipro 2 days ago and he's looking 80% better already. This is a great thread that saved my anemone, I'm not out of the woods yet but the anemone is responding great to the treatment. Thank you!

Sparkpaul
08/27/2013, 02:33 AM
I'm having a pretty bad luck recently with anemones. Today, one walked into the powerhead. I put it in a quarantine box....He is pretty scratched up, should I treated with antibiotics too?

OrionN
08/27/2013, 05:10 AM
You may want to treat it for a few days to make sure it doesn't get infected. What kind of anemone? BTA?

Sparkpaul
08/27/2013, 05:48 AM
I am not exactly sure what specimen this is. It's neon green bubble with purple dot on the tip.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/27/dajyjege.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/27/y2a3u5et.jpg

AD87
08/27/2013, 07:20 AM
Im still treating, and I am on day 10. I will try and post a picture tonight. Mouth is still wide open.

OrionN
08/27/2013, 09:06 AM
I am not exactly sure what specimen this is. It's neon green bubble with purple dot on the tip.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/27/dajyjege.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/27/y2a3u5et.jpg
It's a BTA. They are usually hardy, and often survide getting torn up by PH often. It would not hurt to treat him until he start to heal up some.

AD87
08/27/2013, 06:56 PM
Day 10 of treatment

AD87
08/30/2013, 07:30 PM
Day 13 still looks the same. Should I move the anemone out of the qt and back into the display?
Any suggestions?

Thanks

OrionN
08/30/2013, 07:59 PM
If he does not deflates I would move him back to DT. Open mouth often does not mean that the anemone is sick. Open mouth in sick anemone is different than your's. sick anemone does not have fleshy thick lip like your anemone's mouth.

OrionN
09/07/2013, 10:54 PM
Another thread of me using Cipro to treat 3 Gigantea I got from Petco

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2329256

OrionN
09/07/2013, 10:57 PM
Day 13 still looks the same. Should I move the anemone out of the qt and back into the display?
Any suggestions?

Thanks
Having open mouth does not always mean poor health. This is my Multicolor Gigantea that I got for almost 1.5 years at this time. He grew from 6 inches to 18 inches. Here is his mouth tonight. Often, it is even larger than this.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=244989&stc=1&d=1378611830

Tmoriarty
09/11/2013, 02:32 AM
Hey Minh, long time no talk.

Been off the forums for almost 9 months after loosing well over 100 6month Black Photon clowns that were ready to go due to a skimmer pump melt down, but on to my problem.

So I have been keeping a Magnifica in my tank for about a year, healthy never had problems with it, never moved. I have many pictures of it posted somewhere on my other old posts but maybe you remember those Minh. Anyways about a week ago it decided to walk, managed to push aside the screen on my MP40 and got destroyed, took out two 2.5 Year old tangs with it (I believe from stings caused by the destroyed tentacles). Almost lost a couple other fish as well but was able to save them.

This last weekend I was in San Francisco and what would you know I see a good Purple based mag at some hole in the wall down town. The store was pretty gross and the nem was fairly large (12" column). While I know the success rate of larger mags is atrocious I couldn't pass up the chance to at least try, knowing that I had some ability and knowledge regarding treatment with antibiotics (I know I helped you a bit when you first started treatments with half life information caused by light and water, I see you have that information in this article which is awesome). Anyways I made the purchase and brought the beauty home.

Day 1-

No deflations, wasn't holding it self up as well as it should but looked fairly well in the Tank and wasn't moving.

Day 2-

No deflations for most of the day, about 9pm the tentacles began to look less full, I made sure I had everything I would need to begin treatment if needed.

Day 3-

Came home from work today with approx. 15% of the tentacles beginning to look stringy, the mouth was slightly open approx. .75 inches, I made the decision to begin setting up a treatment tank and move the magnifica into it tonight.

So here is the interesting part. I set the tank up which is a 10g with a sump return pump for flow. The tank is sitting in my broken 55g (kids broke it a little over a month ago) which still has its 4bulb t5 fixture so I placed the 10g down inside the tank for the purpose of using it for lighting. I placed a basket in the 10g that just so happens to fit perfectly added the heater and water matched salinity etc.

Well By the time I went to pull the nem out of my display tank one half of the nem had deflated tentacles but the other half looked mostly normal (only slightly less full). As I began removing the nem from the rock work, which it was still stuck to fairly well I noticed something weird as heck......My finger went right through the center bottom of the nem and out the mouth :O.

At this point I have realized one of two possibilities, either one the nem was starting to look bad because it has begun the splitting process which I know can and will make magnificas look pretty dismal for quite a few days, or it is deteriorating (but there is no bad smell so I feel its splitting not deteriorating). Either way it is still one of the weirdest things I have experienced with nems, especially magnificas which I have no kept successfully for over a year.

I decided to move it into the treatment tank regardless because even if it is splitting I would rather ensure that it is healthy and has a easy infection free split, and if it is sick than I would like to remove the bacterial infection and allow it to heal its hole in the middle.

As of now it is not expelling any zooxanthelle or "guts". I did take a number of pictures but I will load them up tomorrow morning for you to see Minh. This should be a fun one to follow.

Tyler

OrionN
09/11/2013, 06:00 AM
Tyler,

So sorry about your clown babies.
However I am looking forward to see the picture of your new anemones. I think for sure your anemone is splitting. My experiences was the same. Several times when my Magnifica split, it start to look bad, then the mouth dilated an a hole form on the foot, I can see the rock through the dilated mouth. I got pictures posted here on RC years ago but one of the server upgrade chewed it up. I am too lazy to look for it from my massive old photocolection.

Hope everything is well and you will end up with two beautiful Magnifica.

Tmoriarty
09/11/2013, 08:12 AM
Yah indeed I hope for the same thing. I know the babies is just part of the hobby, I am just glad I had them in a separate system then the parents who I still keep in my reef tank.

If the Magnifica is splitting then I may keep it in the Treatment tank for a couple weeks while it starts the healing process. Perhaps that will help in the recovery of the nem as well.

When I lost my original Magnifica my breeding pair of clowns were very displaced. Despite the fact I have 9 or so BTA's in the tank they were unsure of where to go. They did eventually move to the BTA's with the snowflake occe that is also in the tank but continued to go back to the rock looking for their real home. The moment I added the new Magnifica they were right back into it (in fact before it was even out of my hand and placed). I have high hopes everything will be good with this nem and hope I do end up with two beautiful Magnificas.

Tyler

Tmoriarty
09/17/2013, 10:33 AM
No good, nem melted about day 5. I am suprised it went so fast after looking fairly good from the day I got it. The next one I will start treatment on it on day 1.

tatuaje08
10/02/2013, 11:03 AM
Can this be used to prevent infection, not just treat it? I propagate btas and would be curious to know if a quick dip would do them some good?

LisaE
10/06/2013, 10:04 PM
OrionN do you think Fish Flox is an acceptable form of Ciprofloxacin, or would it be better to obtain a prescription for Cipro from a local doctor/dentist?

OrionN
10/06/2013, 10:13 PM
I think FishFlox is OK. Get it from reputable dealer. Heat and moisture will degrade most medicine. Keep them in cool dry place is very important.

s2nhle
10/15/2013, 11:20 AM
tagging along

motojoe1988
10/16/2013, 11:45 AM
Im looking to pick up a gig today but cant get any cirpo for a few days. Can I use amoxicilan?

Bratyboy2
10/18/2013, 11:19 PM
To far gone to treat? It just came in and was stressed was fine then this happened...

OrionN
10/19/2013, 01:57 AM
Not too far gone. Sometime they can really turn around but the sooner the better.

Bratyboy2
10/19/2013, 08:06 AM
Thanks orion! I'll start working with it tonight!

GTR
10/22/2013, 10:24 AM
Is the ciprofloxacin being chosen due the price and availability?
I have a steady supply of baytril used for fish treatments. Never gave much consideration to treating anemones weakened in transport.

plthijinx
10/26/2013, 12:03 PM
Hey y'all. new to the forum and have been back in the hobby for about 6 months now after about a 6 year hiatus. I just had two fish (blue damsel & clown fish) die. I QT'd them and treated them with Herbtana but to no avail. The symptoms were lethargy in both of them with sore like wounds on them. The Damsel died first then the clown a couple days later. Here's a weird note, I would do a 50% water change every other day and on the last water change within an hour the clown fish snapped out of it's lethargic state and back to it's normal feisty self. I thought cool! he's going to make it only to wake up the next morning to find him dead. there were no signs of ich whatsoever. i'm thinking the infection wasn't parasitic.

everything else in my display are good and show no signs of stress. ph is right down the middle, salinity is 1.024, nitrates are a tad high (5 ppm) but i'm working on that, bought the tank used and it had been severely neglected, nitrites and amm are 0. tank consists of 2 pj's, one dragon gobi and house cleaners (aka shrimp and snails).

yesterday i went out and bought another clown fish and anenomie. both seem to be doing fine although i did catch a bristle worm trying to steal the food i'd just given the anenomie but the anenomie won that round.



your thoughts?

Pastey
01/23/2014, 10:29 AM
During treatment of a haddoni, is it wise to have a a container with sand for the nem to put it's foot into to make it feel more secure while in the treatment tank or just leave it bare bottom?

D-Nak
01/23/2014, 11:05 AM
During treatment of a haddoni, is it wise to have a a container with sand for the nem to put it's foot into to make it feel more secure while in the treatment tank or just leave it bare bottom?

I've treated two red haddoni -- once with sand (in a plastic container a bit larger than the nem) and once without -- and both ended with the death of the anemone. On the other hand I've treated a few gigantea, all with success.

I was told the first time around that the bacteria present on the sand may have died when Cipro was added, and this may have fouled the tank, so the second time I didn't use any substrate. The first haddoni never attempted to bury its foot, and the second never tried to attach to the tank. This is in contrast to all of the gigs, which quickly attached to either the tank bottom or rock (in one case it was already attached to a rock when I received it, and it never detached).

Both haddoni never showed a positive response to the Cipro treatment, only a quick decline. Again, this is in contrast to gigs, which all showed an immediate improvement.

If there are any other haddoni owners who have successfully treated with Cipro, I'm curious to know what the experience was like. In my cases, I started to think that for some reason, Cipro isn't as effective on haddoni as it is with gigantea, but there are too many factors -- and not enough testing to support my hypothesis -- that this is actually the case.

D-Nak
01/23/2014, 11:19 AM
To far gone to treat? It just came in and was stressed was fine then this happened...

Thanks orion! I'll start working with it tonight!

Update? Did the nem make it?

Reef1589
02/02/2014, 10:00 AM
If there are any other haddoni owners who have successfully treated with Cipro, I'm curious to know what the experience was like. In my cases, I started to think that for some reason, Cipro isn't as effective on haddoni as it is with gigantea, but there are too many factors -- and not enough testing to support my hypothesis -- that this is actually the case.

Ive treated Mostly S. Gig's and my latest addition was my red haddoni, I treated it and saw rather quick improvements, not as quick as most of my S. Gig's, but non the less improvements within 24 hrs of treatment..

Picture at the LFS

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=246593&d=1379870749[/QUOTE]

nearly 24 hr laters in treatment tank..

<a href="http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/Reef1589/media/r2-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Reef1589/r2-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo r2-1.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/Reef1589/media/r1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k507/Reef1589/r1-1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo r1-1.jpg"/></a>

It took about 3 weeks for his mouth to fully close tightly tho..

I know ive said this before in my S. Gig thread and on any of my treatment threads, I use different medication then Cipro, I use Levoflaxocin, which from my understanding talking to minh, is the Updated version of Cipro and tends to cost a tad bit more...

Thread is here with all my anemone's
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2276752

OrionN
02/02/2014, 12:48 PM
I treated my Green Haddoni with Cipro and it works fine.
It is not the anemone, but the bacterial. If the bacterial is sensitive to ciprofloxacin and if we start it early enough, it should be effective.

maddmaxx
02/13/2014, 12:17 AM
orionN couple questions sir...

if i have a 20L laying around, obviously i could use that as a HT..if i was to fill it all the way up during treatment and did a 50% water change, would i use 2 tablets after the water change?

also would a 4x T5 lighting fixture be enough for a s.mag?

OrionN
02/13/2014, 06:53 AM
I would dose 25mg/gal gal every day, so if your treatment tank is 20 gal then I would dose 500 mg. I think if you have fairly good lighting, the ciprofloxacin would breakdown with light so I assume that by the end of the day, you level is much lower if not all gone.
When my anemone is not doing well, I do 100% water change, I would still dose 25mg/gal. Right now I am treating two Gigantea in my HT, 20 gal high 50% fill. 1st day, last night, I change 100% of the water. Today, I will change only 50% of the water. They are doing much better. Last night I dosed 250 mg and will dose 250 mg today also. I have a 40 W flood LED 10,000K light on this tank. It is really bright with this LED.

OrionN
02/13/2014, 06:58 AM
maddmaxx,
IMO, lighting is important. Without it, your sick anemone will loose all his zooxanthealle and after treatment he will be that much more difficult to bring back. Really bright light is not essential but enough light (more is better IMO unless it cause temp instability) so that the anemone will not loose all of his zooxanthallae. Your light should be fine. As long as there are zooxanthallae still in the anemone, they will repopulate the tissue easy enough.

It is unlikely that the light will help anemone produce enough calorie to sustain himself especially with infection and injury. Since they are not eating with treatment, anything help.

OrionN
02/17/2014, 04:54 PM
Another thread on treating newly import S. gigantea with Cipro. My Petco Gigantea (5 total)
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2329256

Raquiros
02/27/2014, 10:19 AM
I'm starting the Cipro treatment today... Will let you know how it goeshttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/28/yramyqyg.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/28/u6ybypum.jpg

AD87
02/27/2014, 03:46 PM
Great video Minh! I loved it.

Brando5185
03/06/2014, 09:52 AM
Is cipronatin the same? I ordered ciprofloxacin and they sent cipronatin.

this is me
03/12/2014, 10:47 AM
I'm planning on doing this treatment when I acquire a gigantea. What kind of light during the treatment process? Does it need to be strong MH light during the treatment? Wouldn't the strong light makes the cipro dissolve too fast and not give it enough time to treat the infection?

KCFITZ78
03/12/2014, 11:01 AM
Does Erythromycin work?

this is me
03/13/2014, 07:45 PM
I'm planning on doing this treatment when I acquire a gigantea. What kind of light during the treatment process? Does it need to be strong MH light during the treatment? Wouldn't the strong light makes the cipro dissolve too fast and not give it enough time to treat the infection?

Does anyone actually check this thread? lol

OrionN
03/13/2014, 08:26 PM
I used full light when I treat if I can. Other people seem to use less light.
I used a 40W LED plus morning sunlight before but now just use the 40W LED on top of my 20 gal tank
Light break down Cipro so treated and add med at begin of night cycle

AD87
03/13/2014, 10:33 PM
I have used a single household power compact screw light bulb in the past.

prior20
03/31/2014, 10:27 PM
I can get a Pharos led fixture to use but I'm not sure how to set the intensity to the news liking. Should I be worried about too much intensity? Is there an ideal PAR range?

ir_danno22
03/31/2014, 11:49 PM
Interesting read knowing Cipro kills off a wide range of good and bad bacteria.

prior20
03/31/2014, 11:56 PM
I can get a Pharos led fixture to use but I'm not sure how to set the intensity to the news liking. Should I be worried about too much intensity? Is there an ideal PAR range?

Sorry for the autocorrect meant to say the nems liking not news.

OrionN
04/01/2014, 06:01 AM
Interesting read knowing Cipro kills off a wide range of good and bad bacteria.
Antibiotic in the tank is bad. Because of this, they should be treat in the Bare treatment tank.

OrionN
04/02/2014, 06:18 AM
The last two anemones I treated did not response well to Cipro. They continue to deflates for 3 days after on Cipro so I switch antibiotic.
I used co-trimazole (brand name Bactrum DS or Septra DS), each containing 800 mg sulfamethoxazole and 160 mg trimethoprim, to treat them.
Web search indicated that these medication also break down in the environment by photo-degradation. There is a Master Thesis at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, that look into degradation of various antibiotics in the environment.

In human, Septra DS excreted unchanged in the urine and goes down the sewage system. Dose in human is 1 tablet twice a day.

The regiment I used is 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water. 100% water change every night as the light turn out. One week of treatment. The anemones did not deflate at all after the first day of switching antibiotic. I watch them for 3 days after I discontinue the antibiotic without problem. I put them back in the DT system last night.

rayn
04/06/2014, 04:12 PM
I picked up a haddoni almost a week ago. Wondering what determines or justifies treating with cipro? Is it the mouth gaping, not attaching, constant deflating and reflating, combination? Read through the thread and didn't really see a answer other then don't treat just to treat at one point.

OrionN
04/06/2014, 05:20 PM
I would encourage treatment if the anemone is sick
What constitute a sick anemone is your question. A veteran anemone keeper will know when an anemone is sick. This is variable and different for each species. If you don't know, your best bet is taken picture when he is at his worst and at his best. Post online and ask for advises.
There is not one or two or three thinks that would point out a sick anemone. However, repeat deflation is universally regard as sign of a sick anemone.

rayn
04/06/2014, 05:41 PM
Thanks.

Mine attached within hours of going in the tank. It has yet to deflate, I believe that is a good sign. The mouth is open on occasion, but not by much. I don't think you could even fit a dime in there. So I presume that is good. The biggest issue I see so far is light. When they are off it is full with tentacles out. Lights come on and it kinda shrinks up as if trying to get away. They are led turned down as much as possible and three layers of egg crate to protect.

I had originally planned to great with cipro, but now I am second guessing the need to with this one.

prior20
04/10/2014, 11:12 PM
Mine also started off well so I put off ordering the cipro. Almost a week later it started to deflate and now I wish I had the cipro right away. Now I have the anemone in a treatment tank and have to wait until tomorrow for the cipro to arrive. My advice would be just to have it handy in case you ever need it.

Chrisq0904
04/12/2014, 09:06 AM
Mine also started off well so I put off ordering the cipro. Almost a week later it started to deflate and now I wish I had the cipro right away. Now I have the anemone in a treatment tank and have to wait until tomorrow for the cipro to arrive. My advice would be just to have it handy in case you ever need it.


I agree with you on this. I almost was in the same situation but I was able to get some cipro from a local reefer. I ordered fish flox for when I ran out but what I got before seems to be enough. But I now have a full bottle in case this ever happens again.

hypnoj
04/18/2014, 10:41 AM
Bactrim DS is also a pretty inexpensive antibiotic with better coverage then Cipro. I'm glad to see that someone has already tried it out. I'm picking up a H. Mag today and I plan on putting a quarter tablet of Bactrim right in the bag before I bring it home. I'll then acclimate it to my DT and place it in. If it starts going down hill after this, then I'll pull it back out, place in QT and begin medicating it. Wish me luck!

OrionN
04/18/2014, 03:05 PM
If you look at the spectrum of activity, Cipro is better at taken care of water related infections in HUMAN. In anemones who know. I just choose Cipro becasue it is effective in human for water related infection, cheap and easy to get. Septra DS is OK but not as broad spectrum.
I used it before also and it seem effective the one time I used it. I added 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water and change 100% of the water each day. Septra did not disolves as easy as Cipro in salt water. I got clumps in the water for 4 hrs after trying to disolves it in the QT. By the next morning everything have disolved.

TinManx
04/18/2014, 03:20 PM
I am currently treating a large S. gignatea with cipro. I am on the 5th day of treatment. The anemone hasn't deflated in 3 days, and the amount of black pellets being released has diminished significantly. However there is still some black pellets being released. Should I continue treatment until the pellets stop, or do you think I am OK to cease treatment and return to the DT? Are the pellets just dead symbiotic bacteria, or something else do you think?

hypnoj
04/18/2014, 03:37 PM
If you look at the spectrum of activity, Cipro is better at taken care of water related infections in HUMAN. In anemones who know. I just choose Cipro becasue it is effective in human for water related infection, cheap and easy to get. Septra DS is OK but not as broad spectrum.
I used it before also and it seem effective the one time I used it. I added 1 Septra DS for 10 gal of water and change 100% of the water each day. Septra did not disolves as easy as Cipro in salt water. I got clumps in the water for 4 hrs after trying to disolves it in the QT. By the next morning everything have disolved.

It won't matter what species it's in. Assuming that the medication can get into the tissues it will kill the organisms that it is designed to kill. Cipro can kill lots of organisms, but they're mostly in one family (Gram -). Bactrim can't kill as many Gram - species as Cipro, but it has greater Gram + killing potential. I will admit though, when you look at what's species are Gram -, they're the kind that you'd expect to find in water (proteus etc); so Cipro more then likely is more effective for saltwater bacteria types :)

OrionN
04/18/2014, 03:48 PM
Microorganisms that infect one species or related group of species often do not infect animals of another species. What infect human does not necessary infect anemone.<O:p</O:p
For example, bird flu does not normally infect human but can wipe out a bird population. When through mutation it jumps to infect human, it can be very virulent because human never been exposed to similar virus before.<O:p</O:p
Waterborne infections in humans are mostly gram negative bacterial.<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p

hypnoj
04/18/2014, 06:48 PM
Microorganisms that infect one species or related group of species often do not infect animals of another species. What infect human does not necessary infect anemone.<O:p</O:p
For example, bird flu does not normally infect human but can wipe out a bird population. When through mutation it jumps to infect human, it can be very virulent because human never been exposed to similar virus before.<O:p</O:p
Waterborne infections in humans are mostly gram negative bacterial.<O:p</O:p<O:p</O:p

I'm not talking about what infects humans and what infects other creatures, I'm merely stating which antibiotics kills which organisms. It's obvious that certain bacteria infect certain creatures; whether it's human/anemone or not, has nothing to do with it. Certain antibiotics kill certain bacteria; since no one on this forum has cultured these bacterial strains, it's wise to use broad spectrum antibiotics. Broad spectrum means that it kills multiple different strains of bacteria in different species groups, ie, gram -, gram +, aerobic, anaerobic, etc.

OrionN
04/19/2014, 12:38 AM
No, but all the pathogen for human that associated with water are gram negative. I would guess that bacterial that infect anemones are likely gram negative also. Also Cipro have good gram positive coverage also.

hypnoj
04/19/2014, 06:43 AM
No, but all the pathogen for human that associated with water are gram negative. I would guess that bacterial that infect anemones are likely gram negative also. Also Cipro have good gram positive coverage also.

Yup, I agree. That's why Cipro is such a good choice.

KindCorals
04/26/2014, 12:42 AM
Do you think this might work for treating infected ricordea yumas? Everyone seems to think its a bacterial infection when yuma (especially pink yumas like mine) start with brown jelly, get a hole near the mouth and melt away. It went from 2 pinks to a green and now another green yuma. I might try cipro since these are anemone corals.

OrionN
04/26/2014, 07:25 AM
Why not try it and let us know.
Somebody should try to treat an infected Elegance also

MachPilot
04/30/2014, 11:56 AM
It should not be a problem. Infection is infection. Organisms are not selective for which they infect.

Bacteria gets a foothold in traumatic wounds and stressful conditions just like people.

Cipro is better then E-mycin because it has a broader spectrum of coverage.
You could also use Bactrim (would need ot treat in the nighttime cycle due ot light degradation)

In a perfect world, dripping vancomycin would be THE definitive drug of choice for any anemone/invert but its not available outside of the hospital and requires dripping and maintenance of peaks and troughs.

Cipro is really the easist to use.

TinManx
05/05/2014, 02:32 AM
In a perfect world, dripping vancomycin would be THE definitive drug of choice for any anemone/invert but its not available outside of the hospital and requires dripping and maintenance of peaks and troughs.


I sincerely hope that you are joking:sad2: I am sorry, but no reef creature is worth utilizing the LAST LINE of defense that humans have against life threatening infections. I am thankful vancamycin is protected from reckless prescription. Hopefully no reef addicts try and grab some on the black market....:jester:

hypnoj
05/05/2014, 08:01 AM
lol.. This thread has turned pretty funny. Anyone have tips on how/where to insert an IV into my nem? I'm not letting this guy go down without a fight!!

OrionN
05/05/2014, 11:57 AM
lol.. This thread has turned pretty funny. Anyone have tips on how/where to insert an IV into my nem? I'm not letting this guy go down without a fight!!
Just get a needle and stick it in there. Now tape the IV to keep it on the anemone can be a problem, but we fight that battle when we get to it. :)

Seriously. Vancomycin is only effective again gram possitive organism and would not be an ideal antibiotic use to treat anemone infection unless I completly miss the boat. It have very narow spectrum of activity and very good for certain infection but hardly the last line of defense for human.

OrionN
05/05/2014, 12:08 PM
Just for kick, Vancomycing is very expensive, even generic. It hav ebeen out since the 1950's
Pricing: U.S. Dose abour 500-1000 mg per day
Capsules (Vancocin HCl Oral)
125 mg (1): $34.82
250 mg (1): $64.20
Capsules (Vancomycin HCl Oral)
125 mg (20): $626.12
250 mg (20): $1154.32

TinManx
05/05/2014, 12:20 PM
but hardly the last line of defense for human.

Perhaps I am misguided. What is considered the last line of defense against MDR infections then?

OrionN
05/05/2014, 12:40 PM
Depends on the infections. We culture them out and then use antibiotic that it is sensitive to. There are enterococcus strains (one of the Gram possitive cocci) that is resistant even to Vacomycin. There are a few newer medication we can use but all we can do is isolate Pt treat them with what we can and hope for the best.

Often highly resistant oragnisms spend a lot of their energy maintian the resitant (they have to produce a lot of factors that keep them drug registant) and not really invasive other than for weaken pt with weaken immune system. Here is a reasonable article regarding Vancomycin Registant Entercoccus (VRE)

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/vancomycin-resistant-enterococci-vre-overview

hypnoj
05/05/2014, 02:16 PM
OrionN is correct, Vanc is hardly last defense and there are way better abx out there right now depending on what's cultured. Vanc is just cheap and easy and works pretty good for MRSA etc.
However, I think we should get back on track with this topic and begin discussing medications for water-born bacteria that can infect anemones. (I know I contributed to the foolishness too :)

TinManx
05/05/2014, 06:50 PM
OrionN is correct, Vanc is hardly last defense and there are way better abx out there right now depending on what's cultured. Vanc is just cheap and easy and works pretty good for MRSA etc.
However, I think we should get back on track with this topic and begin discussing medications for water-born bacteria that can infect anemones. (I know I contributed to the foolishness too :)

Thanks for the clarification. I am not an M.D., so i need some education sometimes. But there is certainly some merit to my stance on vanc, as evidenced by the guidlines for its use set forth by the CDC:

http://wonder.cdc.gov/wonder/prevguid/m0039349/m0039349.asp

As part of the discussion, it would be interesting to see what antibacterial treatments others have tried. So far I only have only heard of cipro and spectrum ds.

MachPilot
05/09/2014, 03:51 PM
Going to set up a vanc drip!....

Ugh this hobby gets more involved by the second lol

tassy
05/09/2014, 09:30 PM
Hello all.

Speaking of getting back on track with the disscussion of medications for water born bacteria. I did a post about a week ago with different meds and possible dossages. And i do believe that because of my post count, little info was offered.If we want people to try different meds then lets offer a little help. FYI I lost all my password stuff and or for got, and have been on here under diff names. Been in salt since FFEand stocked my 1st tank with them.


peaceout

John

OrionN
05/09/2014, 10:01 PM
I am not sure if MachPilot is serious so this may not be needed. While Vancomycin is not the last line of defense for human it is a very important antibiotic. However I do not think that it is an appropriate antibiotic for anemone or fish infection since it only effective against gram positive organism.
Hospitals all have appropriate protocol to ensure it's use is appropriate. I think using IV vancomycin for fish tank is consider very inappropriate. In addition getting IV vancomycin cannot be easy. IMO it also have a wrong spectrum of activity for our need

Reefahholic
05/19/2014, 10:33 PM
I am not sure if MachPilot is serious so this may not be needed. While Vancomycin is not the last line of defense for human it is a very important antibiotic. However I do not think that it is an appropriate antibiotic for anemone or fish infection since it only effective against gram positive organism.
Hospitals all have appropriate protocol to ensure it's use is appropriate. I think using IV vancomycin for fish tank is consider very inappropriate. In addition getting IV vancomycin cannot be easy. IMO it also have a wrong spectrum of activity for our need

Vancomycin is the wrong antibiotic for anemones. There are much more affective antibiotics that will work a lot better.

hypnoj
05/20/2014, 09:38 AM
don't worry guys, we were just kidding about the Vancomycin :)

Amoo
05/21/2014, 10:23 PM
Maybe I'm confused here, but why would one need to inject the Nem with Vanomycin? If I have my understanding correct, our nems internals are filled with whatever we fill the water column with. They don't have kidneys to dispel the medication like humans do, so I would think it would be just as effective in the water column, with far less stress to the nem, then trying to IV a nem. If this works with Cipro, why wouldn't it work with Vanco?

M Woodhill
05/31/2014, 11:34 PM
Does Erythromycin work?

Nope. I tried on my ritteri and basically saw no improvement

Enrico Rj
06/02/2014, 09:44 AM
I didn't head all the comments, but about use the UV light together ?!

dmmdlaw
06/10/2014, 07:25 PM
Is it ok to treat with cipro in tank with fish and other creatures?

OrionN
06/11/2014, 05:51 AM
Is it ok to treat with cipro in tank with fish and other creatures?

We should not use broad spectrum antibiotic in a reef/marine tank. These tanks use bacterial as the main filtration method. These antibiotic will cause a lot of unpredictable changes in the bacterial population.
IMO, we should not use antibiotic at all in a marine or reef tank, but definitely not broad spectrum antibiotic.

Jilnifer
06/20/2014, 09:45 PM
I bought a Haddoni carpet over a month ago. Within a week, his mouth was gaping. I moved him to a HT and administered Cipro for 7 days. It looked better and was moved back to DT a few days later. After a couple of weeks his mouth is gaping again and he is deflating daily. Should I try Cipro treatment again? Any other suggestions on how to save him?

Jilnifer
06/22/2014, 12:16 AM
Bump

I need some help, please!

OrionN
06/22/2014, 08:11 AM
I would treat again, maybe use Septra DS this time.
Check your tank condition, healthy anemone normally do not get sick out of the blue. Something cause the problem and get him sick. You may not keep him healthy long term unless you fix this. Often just frequent large water change will get the chemistry back to normal and get rid of "bad stuff" that cause them to be sick.

Amoo
06/22/2014, 04:58 PM
Minh,

Any reason you haven't taken a shot with Cefotaxime? I know when plants have gram + infections they treat with vanco, but for gram - they treat with Cefotaxime.

OrionN
06/22/2014, 07:31 PM
Cefotaxime is a Cephalosporin antibiotic, third generation. This group the spectrum are mostly gram + intil third generation. Most of these Ceph. third generation drugs are expensive and IV only. Cefotaxime is IV or IM only, not oral thus come only in powder for mixing IV. It cost about 2.50-3.50 per dose
I did not use these because they are harder to get and are more expensive. They are not usually available in outpatient pharmacy since they are only use in the inpatient setting.

Amoo
06/22/2014, 07:49 PM
It's actually generally inexpensive $3.50 for 10ml of 500mg/ml. I do understand that it is meant for IM or IV use, but this still goes back to my earlier comment about Vanco, as long as we're suspending it in the water column it's going to get into the Nem's body. Beyond that, we don't know much more about what it's reactions could be as we do with a "normally" oral medication like Cipro.

Maybe I need to look up the method of delivery for plants, but I feel it's an unexplored option with something with a little more coverage, or at least different coverage, than Cipro is currently giving us.

Edit:

This site seems to have a pretty solid list of what we have potentially at our disposal. There's not much I can think of that we use in the vet industry on a daily basis that isn't listed here:

http://www.phytotechlab.com/pdf/antibiotics.pdf

OrionN
06/22/2014, 08:08 PM
It certainly harder to come by. I treat Human so I do not know much about what is available for researcher or Vet. The following is my information about pricin gof cefotaxime from uptodate.com, a professional medical information site that I use a lot.

I try to use medication that is cheap and easily available. If what we usually use does not work then we can expand to different antibiotic. Cephotaxime can be use and it should be effective. I would use 1000 mg per 10 liter. If you use it, please post so we can all gain some experience. These are wholesale price. Pharmacy will add their profit on top of this. AWP is Average Wholesale Price

Quote from uptodate.com
Pricing: U.S.
Solution (Claforan in D5W Intravenous)
1 gm/50 mL (50 mL): $16.15
2 gm/50 mL (50 mL): $28.54
Solution (reconstituted) (Cefotaxime Sodium Injection)
1 g (1): $2.64
2 g (1): $13.00
10 g (1): $65.00
500 mg (1): $6.38
Solution (reconstituted) (Claforan Injection)
1 g (1): $2.06
2 g (1): $5.05
10 g (1): $22.68
500 mg (1): $1.80
Solution (reconstituted) (Claforan Intravenous)
1 g (1): $4.04
2 g (1): $7.32
Disclaimer: The pricing data provide a representative AWP and/or AAWP price from a single manufacturer of the brand and/or generic product, respectively. The pricing data should be used for benchmarking purposes only, and as such should not be used to set or adjudicate any prices for reimbursement or purchasing functions. Pricing data is updated monthly.

Amoo
06/22/2014, 08:32 PM
I do all of our ordering and the pricing I listed is accurate for current market direct to me before markup.

I'm wondering if it might be worth trying it as a second line of defense after cipro, I'm afraid a nem might be too far gone though to know for sure.

OrionN
06/22/2014, 08:41 PM
I do all of our ordering and the pricing I listed is accurate for current market direct to me before markup.

I'm wondering if it might be worth trying it as a second line of defense after cipro, I'm afraid a nem might be too far gone though to know for sure.

You should be able to get medication easier and cheaper than the rest of us. Please post if you decide to use other medications (other than Cipro and Septra)

Amoo
06/22/2014, 09:22 PM
Will do, just going to seek guidance on dosing and situations to use. There are a few others I have thought of, but nothing as hard hitting that I can think of as Cefotaxime. Any others?

Also, why the choice of Septra? Not sure you have explained that.

OrionN
07/28/2014, 08:57 AM
Hi Everybody,
I got Debi to change the first post of this thread to update for a few new information and my current treatment recommendation.

Amoo
07/28/2014, 08:14 PM
Mihn,

You're welcome to add my ongoing thread to the OP if you choose.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2421087

OrionN
07/28/2014, 08:30 PM
Mihn,

You're welcome to add my ongoing thread to the OP if you choose.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2421087
Amoo,
If you don't mind, please write a summary of your recommendation regarding medications and doses, I will see if Debi can added it to the first post, clearly state that it is your recommendation. I think this will help give everybody different choices and regiment to use to treat sick anemones.

dc
07/30/2014, 01:29 PM
Amoo, I added it to the first post and moved your actual posts to your original thread.

Amoo
07/30/2014, 02:48 PM
Amoo, I added it to the first post and moved your actual posts to your original thread.

Thank you kindly.

Pinkskunk
09/29/2014, 12:31 PM
Folks,

What is the equivalent product for Septra DS?

i know Fish Flox is another name for Cipro used for ornamental fish and i would like to know if this exist for Septra DS as well, please advice.

OrionN
09/29/2014, 01:05 PM
Fish Sulfa Forte,160 mg trimethoprim and 800 mg sulfamethoxazole is equivalent to Septra DS
Sulfameth/Trimeth (SMZ) Tablets 800mg/160 mg
SMZ-TMP 960 mg

OrionN
09/29/2014, 01:12 PM
You can get them here at DFS website
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=12101&cmpid=03csegpl&ref=6111&subref=AA&CAWELAID=1517191850&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=530005150000113571&cadevice=c

Pinkskunk
09/29/2014, 01:13 PM
Thanks Minh !

CoralsAddiction
10/02/2014, 10:54 AM
Based on the Scoring system on the first page of this thread, at what point does one start a treatment?

Amoo
10/07/2014, 05:38 AM
Based on the Scoring system on the first page of this thread, at what point does one start a treatment?

It's not completely black and white CA, it's more about the change in score you've noted. If you've noted a change of 1/2 points, probably no big deal. If you noticed a change of 3/4 points, probably time to think about treating. Also almost anything 6 or above I treat.

HTH.

ca1ore
10/07/2014, 06:50 AM
While I do think a scoring system is useful, I have tended to take a somewhat simpler approach. If I have an anemone that fully deflates (not just a few tentacles) more that once - two days in a row, for example - I put it into treatment. My own personal experience with magnifica anemones is that if I get them into treatment quickly, I have a 100% survival rate (3 out of 3). If I wait too long, I have a 50% survival rate (2 out of 4). I had one years ago that survived without any treatment, and one that dies before I knew any better; but all the others I have kept required treatment, including a recent specimen that had already been treated by DD.

Gaidin
10/13/2014, 01:00 PM
I purchased a red based H. Magnifica and put it into my DT. At the LFS it looked inflated, mouth closed and healthy. But it had just arrived the day before. Initially it looked the same in my tank but the whole anemone looked "empty". The way a car dealership arm flailing inflatable tube man would look. Inflated but like it had no substance to the anemone. I left it in my DT for a week on a wait and see. The first few days It looked like it was beginning to improve on its own and the anemone attached in a nice spot high up and great water flow. Then it began to regularly deflate for 20-30 mins about an hour before lights out on my DT. Otherwise looking healthy the rest of the day and throughout the night. (i didnt initially realize this until the anemone was in treatment but the deflation always occurred when I fed my fish, I would feed thawed frozen mysid, some LRS, and some frozen cylopeez. I usually fed after I got home in the evening so it was always around the same time. As soon as the food hit the water the anemone deflated. Thoughts on this?) My concern was that it would not improve on its own and I didnt want to wait until it started to melt. The mouth was never gaping or open, always closed and tight, but the tentacles would deflate and the anemone would shrink up. Ron Popeil is a good friend of mine and we traded pics back and forth on txt msgs. After some discussion we agreed that it would be best to treat.

I ordered Cipro online and waited for it to arrive as I spent days looking for sources locally and was not able to get anyone to listen to the crazy man who wanted antibiotics for an anemone. Once I got my Cipro I moved it to 10g QT and started treatment. I do 100% water change at end of day cycle with 1/2 500mg Cipro tablet. Tank has a heater, powerhead separated by egg crate. and a mesh top with a dual PC light. I am currently on Day 5 of treatment on my H. Magnifica. Since day 1 the anemone has not deflated. It looks healthy, inflated, attached to glass. My next question is how much longer should I continue treatment since it has not deflated again since beginning treatment. I was thinking of discontinuing Cipro after the 7th treatment and possibly moving back to display soon after. Any suggestions? I will try to upload some photos of my progress.

D-Nak
10/17/2014, 12:00 PM
I purchased a red based H. Magnifica and put it into my DT. At the LFS it looked inflated, mouth closed and healthy. But it had just arrived the day before. Initially it looked the same in my tank but the whole anemone looked "empty". The way a car dealership arm flailing inflatable tube man would look. Inflated but like it had no substance to the anemone. I left it in my DT for a week on a wait and see. The first few days It looked like it was beginning to improve on its own and the anemone attached in a nice spot high up and great water flow. Then it began to regularly deflate for 20-30 mins about an hour before lights out on my DT. Otherwise looking healthy the rest of the day and throughout the night. (i didnt initially realize this until the anemone was in treatment but the deflation always occurred when I fed my fish, I would feed thawed frozen mysid, some LRS, and some frozen cylopeez. I usually fed after I got home in the evening so it was always around the same time. As soon as the food hit the water the anemone deflated. Thoughts on this?) My concern was that it would not improve on its own and I didnt want to wait until it started to melt. The mouth was never gaping or open, always closed and tight, but the tentacles would deflate and the anemone would shrink up. Ron Popeil is a good friend of mine and we traded pics back and forth on txt msgs. After some discussion we agreed that it would be best to treat.

I ordered Cipro online and waited for it to arrive as I spent days looking for sources locally and was not able to get anyone to listen to the crazy man who wanted antibiotics for an anemone. Once I got my Cipro I moved it to 10g QT and started treatment. I do 100% water change at end of day cycle with 1/2 500mg Cipro tablet. Tank has a heater, powerhead separated by egg crate. and a mesh top with a dual PC light. I am currently on Day 5 of treatment on my H. Magnifica. Since day 1 the anemone has not deflated. It looks healthy, inflated, attached to glass. My next question is how much longer should I continue treatment since it has not deflated again since beginning treatment. I was thinking of discontinuing Cipro after the 7th treatment and possibly moving back to display soon after. Any suggestions? I will try to upload some photos of my progress.

Sounds to me like treatment worked. Any update? If you can observe it in the QT for a week or so, it'll allow you make an assessment of whether or not the treatment worked.

Gaidin
10/18/2014, 02:55 AM
Treatment seems to have worked. Its now acclimated to the DT. Waited about 2 days after 7th dose. No signs of deflation since 1st treatment and looking very healthy. My main concern was how long to treat and how long to observe before returning to DT after 7th treatment given that the anemone had not deflated since day 1 and was looking healthy. I didnt want to move it too early and possibly have it relapse. Seems to be going well so far though.

OrionN
10/21/2014, 06:09 AM
If you have no anemone in your tank, I would move and put him there. If you have anemone in the DT and wanted to make absolutely sure that your new anemone is healthy, I would leave him in HT for 3 days without any antibiotic. If he does well, than transfer him to DT.

marty9876
10/21/2014, 08:29 PM
Any advice for treatment of this scenario:

Currently have a mag in dedicated qt since 9/16. Treated with cipro for 5 days right off the bat. Nem has been deflating completely about once every three days lately. The odd part is the nem looks healthier and healthier as the days go by (with the complete deflation every third day or so). I'm defining healthier as stronger more solid stance and reduction in bleaching.

I can't decide if I should dose spectra. Have a clownfish in with the nem.

givemeajob
10/28/2014, 09:43 AM
I want to thank everyone on this thread for all the information. I have been treating two mags in a hospital tank for 10 days now. They were in my display for almost two weeks when I decided that it was time to treat them. They were still clinging to the rocks but were deflated more than inflated and ones mouth was gaping wide open. The tank is very mature, large (450 gallons), with plenty of light and random flows. All other livestock has been flourishing.

I just returned one to my display last night after he showed no signs of deflation for over 4 days. This morning he is huge although he moved onto the front glass which is not the best viewing spot so I'm hoping he at least moves to the sides.

I've left the other in the hospital tank for now (the one who's mouth was initially gaping), still treating with Cipro and keeping things constant. He looks better all the time but I'm not ready to put him back in the display just yet. He's not bleached but he just doesn't look quite there yet. I don't mind keeping him on the hospital tank and probably will for another week or so.

Bottom line, this treatment works as I'm sure these two mags would be dead by now. It also is a good conversation piece talking to people about how you are treating your marine life with antibiotics. It makes me sound smarter than I actually am.

Thanks everyone.

Seths Dad
11/11/2014, 04:33 PM
Looking for advice on an led bulb for a ht/qt, it's an Ecosmart par38 19w 5000k I found at Home Depot. Would that be adequate to keep a mag in a ht/qt?

thanks

Seths Dad
11/13/2014, 10:04 AM
Looking for advice on an led bulb for a ht/qt, it's an Ecosmart par38 19w 5000k I found at Home Depot. Would that be adequate to keep a mag in a ht/qt?

thanks

Got my answer in another thread

Reefvet
11/14/2014, 09:13 PM
Got my answer in another thread


Hah !

So you came back here to let us know you got an answer, but it didn't occur to you to say what it was.

Classic post. :beer:

marc price
11/16/2014, 12:40 AM
Got my answer in another thread

FYI,

I used a PAR meter to test several of the commonly available at Lowes and Home Depot PAR-38 5000K LED's. The Philips 19.5watt 5000K PAR 38 LED has almost twice the PAR of all the others available at Home Depot and Lowes.
http://www.homedepot...m79Z15bZ1z0u18w

I have been doing well with all types of SPS combining the 5000K Philips with a Feit 450nm Blue PAR-38
http://www.feit.com/led-lamps/performance/performance_led/performance_led/color_leds/color_led/par38-b-ledg5

There is also a 23Watt 6500K which is interesting however i didn't order one so don't know what the PAR will be - http://www.bulborama.com/LED-Light-Bulbs/PAR-Shaped-LED-Bulbs/PAR38-LED-Bulbs/DIMMABLE-LED-PAR38-FLOOD-BULB-23-WATTS-65K-DAYLIGHT-INDUSTRIAL-GRADE-LED-LIGHT-BULB-p2444.html

skyrne_isk
12/23/2014, 05:07 PM
So as a practical question, what is the prevailing wisdom regarding infections that develop in the display tank? When an anemone develops an infection, not as a result of shipping but as a result of some pathology that manifested itself spontaneously in the display tank, what is the best route to clear pathogen from the display tank after treatment has occurred? One of my carpets that I've had for several years developed an infection as a result of a confluence of unlikely events (no new additions or water changes even):

I had been away from the tank for several days and while I was gone the carpet developed a bacterial infection. The best explanation that I can come up with is that while I was gone, a cylinder/ solenoid/probe Ca reactor malfunction caused excess CO2 to be dumped in the reaction chamber which created an alkalinity spike which in turn resulted in calcium carbonate precipitation to deposit in the one vortech that is in the tank (70G). This vortech pump effectively produces all of the flow for the tank. The low flow conditions in the tank over the course of several days caused a bacterial infection to manifest as the carpet went days with next to no flow. By the time I caught up to the anemone it was deflated, necrotic and near death. Cipro treatment has been quite effective in halting the tissue necrosis (even though I did take the liberty of injecting Cipro directly into the foot and to the siphonoglyphs) and the anemone is now recovered. I excised probably three golf balls worth of tissue that was necrotic from a carpet the size of a softball. Amazing recovery.

The concern now is that when adding the treated anemone back to the main tank, stress symptoms and posture were exhibited after 48 hours back in the main tank. Removing the treated carpet back to the treatment tank resulted in an immediate return to normal posture. This leads me to believe that the underlying bacterial pathogen is still present (or in higher than normal concentration) and and that this bacteria is going to have to be addressed before the carpet can be added back to the display.

As a fun side fact, I keep a secondary system that also houses a different gigantea that is filled only with water that is pulled out of the main display when water changes are performed (though this has stopped as of a week ago after the upstream system infection occurred ). As a result of this practice over time, this second tank is ran much dirtier than the display tank. This bacterial condition did not manifest itself in this tank, and in fact the water from this tank has been used as the treatment tank water source throughout the cipro treatment course. So at this point I am a little stuck on how to remediate the bacterial pathogen that developed in the main tank. It is clearly still present enough to be an irritant to the carpet that was just treated. Is maybe the solution simply waiting for the imbalance to correct itself? Keeping the treated carpet in treatment or in the second tank is definitely an option, but those daily 100% water changes are rough.

OrionN
01/02/2015, 02:09 PM
I think that in out tank there is always potential of having pathogens. Usually in a well run tank the pathogens level is low and the chance of infection is minimal. I think when there is a sick anemone, the concentration of pathogen is a lot higher. Basically the sick anemone is full of bacterial and when he deflated he dump all these pathogen out into the water.

I think once you removed the sick anemone from the tank the bacterial population should go back to normal. The competition of microorganism in the environment is extreme. Obligatory pathogen will not last long. I am sure you can put a healthy anemon back in your DT and he will be just fine. Providing that you got your tank back to optimal condition. I just do water change and reassess your equipments. Once your DT is back to normal it would just put the anemone back

BTW, I think I got my green Gigantea/Haddoni hybrid from you several years ago. He is doing great

Agioniko
01/22/2015, 04:09 PM
How long do you QT an new anemone arrival?

OrionN
01/22/2015, 08:13 PM
I keep him in QT for a few days to make sure he is healthy. I can keep them in my QT indefinitely since it is set up for anemone, but as soon as I am sure that he is healthy then I can put him into my DT. You can tell, or at least I can, that an anemone is healthy within one week.

Agioniko
01/22/2015, 08:25 PM
Thank you. I appreciate the feedback

raythepilot
03/31/2015, 10:12 AM
When I first saw this post on treating nem decline with Cipro I knew right away that this was a breakthrough. My personal experience with BTA indicated that the anemone were being attacked by a bacteria that eventually killed them.

Since then I have been able to move the disease from tank to tank and cure it at will. While the equipment and techniques I describe here may be beyond what the average hobbyist has available, Iíll describe them and maybe someone can modify them. This method is specifically designed for a small tank environment of about 10 gal.

The anemone are treated in a small holding tank that fits into a 10 gal tank (see picture in link). Putting the holding tank in the larger tank isolates the anemone, while maintaining thermal stability. The bubbler is adjusted to keep the water circulating but not regulated so high that the anemone is carried away.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=9316&pictureid=64535

The measured volume of the holding tank is 1.7 L. A typical 500 mg Cipro tablet weighs 770 mg with a label strength of 500 mg.
The required final concentration is: 250 mg Cipro/10 gal.
The amount of Cipro tablet to add to the holding tank is:
250 mg/10 gal * 1 gal/3.79L *1.7 L * 770mg/500mg = 17 mg

So for every liter of holding tank volume, you need 10 mg of Cipro tablet.

I have an analytical balance; so, measuring small amounts like this is easy but Iím not sure how you can do this without an accurate balance. You can try grinding up a whole 500 mg tablet and suspending it in 500 ml of water. This will have a concentration of 1 mg/ml so you would use 1.0 ml for each liter of holding tank. You should store this in your refrigerator. I do not know what the stability of Cipro is in water; so, this may not work. Maybe someone can comment on this.

Next you need good accurately made sea water at the right temperature. I have access to some lab equipment; so, I can make synthetic water to a salinity of 35.0 ppt +/- 0.1 ppt. My target SG is 1.02635. You can get around this by making up enough water in advance that is equivalent to 10x the volume of your holding tank. Make up this amount of water and adjust it to as close to 1.0260 (or whatever your target SG is) as you can with your equipment. So if your holding tank is 1.7 L. Make at least 10x or 17L (approx. 5 gal). of water adjusted to a SG of 1.0260.

Now you need a digital thermometer that can read to 0.1 deg. C. I use an Omega HH74K. I donít think you can get around having an accurate thermometer if you are going to follow this method.

Check the temperature in the nem tank and your newly made synthetic water. Adjust the new water to +/- 0.2 C. of the anemone water. For example, if the anemone is in water with a temperature of 26.0 deg C the new water must be between 25.8 Ė 26.2 C. I usually heat the new water in a clean stainless steel pot on my stove or in a clean polypropylene container in the microwave oven.

When the temperature of the new water is OK, I fill the holding tank, add the correct amount of Cipro and put the anemone in the holding tank. I put the holding tank into the primary tank to maintain the correct temperature and adjust the bubbler.

Just before lights out, I add a second dose of Cipro. This is to maintain the Cipro level overnight.

The following morning, I adjust the temperature of my new water to agree with the water temperature of the holding tank and when it is correct, I dump the water out of the holding tank, rinse the tank twice with a small amount of new water and the refill it to the correct level and add a fresh dose of Cipro. At lights off I again add a second dose.

I continue this process for 7 days.

This method always keeps the anemone in good water and allows for the natural decay of Cipro. In addition, the overall dose is never greater than 2x the required dose.

As Iíve said, I have had 100% success rate using this method. The only down side is that the anemone will bleach slightly because of the toxicity of Cipro for the natural algae found in the anemone. The animals usually recover to full color after about a month.

Gig 'em
08/19/2015, 09:43 AM
Has anyone experimented with using ozone in treatment? I know that ozone isn't real great for treating bacteria, but I've read that it is very effective in killing viruses. Not sure if these anemones succumb to viral or bacterial infections more, it may be impossible from the level of a hobbyist to know for sure. Seems like something worth experimenting with.

OrionN
08/19/2015, 10:58 AM
Ozone is good at killing everything because it oxidized everything. Basically it sterilized the water. Ozone need to be neutralized before the water go back into the tank or else it will kill everything in the tank.
It is good at keeping the water column clear, but not usable to treat internal infection of any animal.

Gig 'em
08/19/2015, 11:24 AM
Yeah. I heard running carbon on the return line will scrub out the compounds that are created from the oxidation reactions. If the anemone expels water and re-inflates while running ozone, I would think then that any viruses inside the anemone would be eliminated.

Gig 'em
08/19/2015, 11:26 AM
Also, bacteria can be killed through ozone, but the concentration of ozone required to kill bacteria is much higher than what hobbyists have access to. I read that it needs to be in the 10-12 ppm range, which is incredibly high.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php

OrionN
08/19/2015, 01:13 PM
In general, Ozone just oxidized everything, the higher the concentration, the higher the damage. I think a LFS in England imported many Gigantea at the same time. This store treat the anemones with antibiotic in the same system, but use High dose UV to treat the water to prevent cross infection between the anemone. Essentially each anemone are in it's own cubicle but all the water flow from the cubicle were irradiated with UV before return to the sump.

IMO, Ozone should not be use as treatment for infection. It is ineffective in treating infection inside the anemone. Ozone will irritated all the animal in the tank, unless it is completely scrubbed from the post ozone chamber before t=return to the general circulation.

We need to treat these anemone with antibiotic and which will treat the infection in the water column and in the anemone.

Blue spot
08/21/2015, 02:29 PM
Great reading orion. This may be a silly question but I am going to ask it anyway. Could I soak the anemones supliment feed in the antibiotic ? I have no quarantine system.

OrionN
08/21/2015, 03:53 PM
There have been a few people who take the anemone out and put him a concentrated antibiotic solution for an hour or so and put him back into the DT. I have not done that.
If you want to save your anemone, you need to set up treatment tank.
It is not possible to treat anemone in DT because the havoc antibiotic does to your biological filtration needed for reef tanks

Blue spot
08/25/2015, 12:48 PM
Hi Orion , I have some tetracycline hydrochloride , still trying to get cipro, could this be used ?

Smite
09/19/2015, 11:22 PM
I have a question. I recently bought a blue carpet anemone. My water parameters are:
phosphate .02
Nitrate 2-3ppm
Calcium 400-420
Magnesium currently - 1400
Alkalinity 9.3
Temp 78-79 controlled by apex

I believe my carpet anemone has a bacterial infection. Its deflates several times a day, mouth is gaping at times and sometimes spews fluid.

I've set up my 10g QT with matching parameters. My only problem is the carpet attached to a rock I buried in the sand bed from the DT. Do I stress it further by removing it from the small piece of LR? Will it affect my dosing of Cipro if I were to allow it to stay on the lr? I just added it to the hospital tank, I have a small power head, blocked off, pointed in its direction. I'm hoping it will move but I planned on starting the cipro treatment asap.

Thanks for any help. I apologize if this was already covered in the thread.

Edit: A picture, just incase it helps.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc10/hellbound322/carpet%20nem%20qt.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/hellbound322/media/carpet%20nem%20qt.jpg.html)

or two
http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc10/hellbound322/carpet%20nem.jpg (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/hellbound322/media/carpet%20nem.jpg.html)

marc price
09/19/2015, 11:50 PM
- no. Leave it on the rock.

Smite
09/19/2015, 11:59 PM
thank you marc price. I'll start treatment tonight then. Wonderful thread, hopefully this all works out.

m0nkie
11/01/2015, 10:32 AM
I have this blue haddoni in my tank for a month now... he was constantly moving, but inflated.. last week, he started deflating at night

day
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/krzyaznm0nkie/Mobile%20Uploads/20151030_201346_zpszksmfywg.jpg

night
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/krzyaznm0nkie/Mobile%20Uploads/20151031_111807_zpsu9d6kx9a.jpg

this is my first time treating a carpet with Cipro. in 24 hours I will be doing a complete water change into another tank. Do I need some kind of live rock inside? to process ammonia?? even with the 24hr tank change?

-10 gal
-basic light
-tiny powerhead and a air pump
-heater

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/krzyaznm0nkie/Mobile%20Uploads/20151101_082428_zpskjeyuuvt.jpg

m0nkie
11/02/2015, 01:20 PM
looking much better in day 2. not deflating at night anymore. Mouth is not 100% closed and has some tiny amount of clear nugs come out.

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c252/krzyaznm0nkie/20151102_091929_zpshqimf6kt.jpg

KirbyBTF
11/05/2015, 02:07 PM
I'm about to start treatment on my bubbletip. Got the meds in the mail but it's Cipronatin. Is it the same as ciprofloxacin?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/05/d5904752d1b01f163bd1c9574e8a6c8b.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/05/98e2f4df97df9cccfbd869c52200b2a5.jpg

D-Nak
11/05/2015, 02:23 PM
I'm about to start treatment on my bubbletip. Got the meds in the mail but it's Cipronatin. Is it the same as ciprofloxacin?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/05/d5904752d1b01f163bd1c9574e8a6c8b.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/05/98e2f4df97df9cccfbd869c52200b2a5.jpg

It should be fine. I think Cipronatin is a brand name with ciprofloxacin as the active ingredient.

KirbyBTF
11/05/2015, 02:23 PM
Ok great, thanks.

KirbyBTF
11/05/2015, 02:59 PM
Could I use tank water to fill the treatment tank?

brewman1987
11/14/2015, 04:01 AM
I decided to go ahead and try to save my bta that I have had for 2 months.
The first month he was beautiful , long tentacles and always hungry, waving in the water. Then until recently it has had a decline over several weeks. The tentacles were turning into short nubs and would always deflate , inflate, feeding response was non existent and mouth would open for a bit then close tight. I decided to buy a bottle of fish flox (cipro) and attempt to treat it.

I am using a 10gal tank with small heater and hob filter for flow. It was still attached to the rock during transfer. After about 30 minutes into the ht I decided to medicate. Initially after 15mins medicated its mouth was wide open and foot was starting to detach. That is how it looked before went to bed.

This morning he moved to the other end of the rock and fully attached the foot. Mouth is still gaping with some stringy looking pieces at the end.

The only thing in the tank that could of bothered it would been a emerald crab as it was constantly annoying it.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zps98i9tfwn.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zps98i9tfwn.jpeg.html)

brewman1987
11/14/2015, 04:02 AM
This was day before tx.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zpsne5hckwz.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zpsne5hckwz.jpeg.html)

brewman1987
11/14/2015, 04:04 AM
This morning, note the stringy looking matter in mouth and around tentacles, it appears to be attached where ever they are.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zpsrqflnfpp.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zpsrqflnfpp.jpeg.html)

ThRoewer
11/14/2015, 04:55 AM
Those are mesenterial filaments - them coming out is rather a bad sign.

brewman1987
11/14/2015, 05:56 AM
They were only noted to be coming out around the tentacles at first and only the mouth today. It still is responding to touch and protecting the mouth by closing up

brewman1987
11/15/2015, 03:33 AM
This morning after last nights treatment of 5 gallon wc and 250mg dose of cipro. Mouth almost fully closed tight and other than short tentacles it is looking better.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zpskoqprcnl.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zpskoqprcnl.jpeg.html)

brewman1987
11/16/2015, 09:43 AM
Update this am I no longer see any mesenterial filaments and appears the tentacles are growing back.

brewman1987
11/16/2015, 06:58 PM
This is right after the light went off and before tonight's tx.

http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zpseor9x7ce.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zpseor9x7ce.jpeg.html)

To me it is improving a lot, I noticed today there appeared to be a mucus film excreting from the outside. Almost like a layer of the exterior flesh.

james30ct
11/22/2015, 11:30 AM
Has anyone tried Levaquin or Levofloxacin?

brewman1987
11/23/2015, 01:10 PM
Update photo 1 week of tx with cipro http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zpskty6fntt.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zpskty6fntt.jpeg.html)

OrionN
11/29/2015, 08:46 AM
Has anyone tried Levaquin or Levofloxacin?
Levaquin is a much more expensive medication. If you want to use it, you should use it the same way as Cipro

brewman1987
11/30/2015, 07:29 PM
Anemone is now very responsive to touch and seems 100% better. It still is currently in the ht tank but without tx. I am truly amazed with how it looked like a goner when first started and now it's doing great

Eric Dumont
11/30/2015, 07:40 PM
Hi guy's

I buy an anemone two weeks ago , I 'm not sure if it is a heteractis crispa or malu... sold as a crispa..

I had in my DT tank for 1 week and did not fix by foot and never eat.
After reading this post I decided to go ahead with the treatment of ciprofloxacin.

But putting it in my QT I noticed that the anemone had a foot injury.
I read that foot injuries can become infected and killed the animal, so for this reason I was doing the treatment as directed, cipro 250mg in 10g tank.

This is my QT
15g tank but filled with 10g of water.
50w Heater
Pump
Air pump
Par 38 rapid LED

Picture

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/d385e501e79eb87ad966520d30a88202.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/9b01a38e993e1f4c50913ba5fb15a1f1.jpg

The ciprofloxacin

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/2e62c9be76421f3d526b166c05e0afec.jpg

Day 1

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/f73be06457c3c36f527e8e7bba731d45.jpg

Foot injury day 2

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/dce59750071c5d6a1fa4ba6ae5d86f24.jpg

Day 4

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/f68526c3dc4a58f16d3862c32dbd45de.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/0da0f2853f5579072dc78682f76cc0b2.jpg

Day 5

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/376d8bd4c22196a732f81ea093080119.jpg

Day 6

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/67f14e40856b3992b3ef1d54881b8500.jpg

Day 7

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/30/442f5e769ae4f4fcf8a6c64427731628.jpg


After 7 days of treatment I do not see much improvement ... it is not fixed by the foot and deflated tentacles.


What should I do?
It was a good idea to have used cipro?

Thank for your help!!
Eric

Eric Dumont
12/01/2015, 08:38 AM
Hi!!
Today I decide to put 500mg of ciprofloxacin in 10g.

If you have another idea...

Eric Dumont
12/01/2015, 08:44 AM
Today I decide to put 500mg of cipro in 10 g

If you have any idea??

Eric Dumont
12/01/2015, 10:20 AM
Today I decide to put 500mg of cipro in 10 g

If you have any idea??





I do not know why my post was not displayed ... here it is !!


Hi guy's

I buy an anemone two weeks ago , I 'm not sure if it is a heteractis crispa or malu... sold as a crispa..

I had in my DT tank for 1 week and did not fix by foot and never eat.
After reading this post I decided to go ahead with the treatment of ciprofloxacin.

But putting it in my QT I noticed that the anemone had a foot injury.
I read that foot injuries can become infected and killed the animal, so for this reason I was doing the treatment as directed, cipro 250mg in 10g tank.

This is my QT
15g tank but filled with 10g of water.
50w Heater
Pump
Air pump
Par 38 rapid LED

Picture
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/1f564df6573ba3729eabb683de629363.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/978fb2477898e627d51cac07a768eefd.jpg

The ciprofloxacin
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/07f2899142e5885b3034557d158c7a7d.jpg

Day 1
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/108ec76b2cec27da6cb9b69752a4dbc4.jpg

Foot injury day 2
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/86f82ce6e0f487b395220aeeef3fd17a.jpg

Day 4
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/9bedd4ed75f92d872cfef5d7e0bfbf80.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/f4c7a3ce5dcf0bdbafb93b87565cac7c.jpg

Day 5
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/103716c0fc5ab21d5eb911edec289396.jpg

Day 6
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/48a66d000df44ed96fd99bf64699a7af.jpg

Day 7
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/bfb19e526269ddfd80362e5da4cb4083.jpg

After 7 days of treatment I do not see much improvement ... it is not fixed by the foot and deflated tentacles.


What should I do?
It was a good idea to have used cipro?

Thank for your help!!
Eric

Eric Dumont
12/02/2015, 05:03 PM
Day 9
2 days of 500mg ciprofloxacin
I think it does not work...


http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/fe47e2d1b19c8a21d69eb0ed4cc3a317.jpg

Do you have a an idea?

Thank for your help

Eric Dumont
12/02/2015, 05:42 PM
Day 9
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/f97a683016fa20bc6fb743438e2642c6.jpg

The injury day 2
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/7d6ba9aecc1acfc868821cee3a806e27.jpg

And day 9
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/9b010abc0be54f582299dd28c67b377c.jpg

2 days of 500mg of cipro in 10g

I think it's does not work...

Do you have an idea?
Furan 2?
I have Clavamox (amoxicillin and clavulanic)

So thank for your help!!

franco_oo
12/04/2015, 08:59 AM
I wish to help you my friend but I don't know how :sad2:

Can some one help this guy to save is anemone :wave:

Thanks RC !!

nebraskareef
12/04/2015, 01:23 PM
the foot appears to be getting better. I may DC TX and observe another few days. I will begin to treat my RBTA which is in bad shape and will post them here as well following Mihn's method.

Deep thanks to all that have contributed. Also, I was on vanco IV for 12 weeks due to a spinal infection. I know it was all a joke but I'm nearly 20k in debt for meds and infusion alone for one infection.

Eric Dumont
12/04/2015, 08:36 PM
Sorry for you nebraskareef,
I hope you are better...

yes I believe that the injury is getting better ...
I continue the treatment !!

To be continued...

ulli
12/08/2015, 12:06 PM
Getting XL Gigantea the 17th
Going to be ready with a quarantine tank and see if i can get those meds before it arrives.

brewman1987
12/12/2015, 03:00 PM
Here is the update photo from today. Have the nem in my tank and has really started to grow back in full force. http://i1290.photobucket.com/albums/b537/Mk12spr/image_zpsnxivcwid.jpeg (http://s1290.photobucket.com/user/Mk12spr/media/image_zpsnxivcwid.jpeg.html)

Jrsdaddy
12/21/2015, 08:18 PM
Hey guys I'm currently treating a mag that I got from DD last week. It arrived in good condition and started to look even better during the dripping process. I placed it directly in my DT since I have no other anemones in the tank and since it seemed so healthy. The first 3 days it continued to look good and my clowns went in it the first 2 mins of being in the tank, then out of nowhere in suddenly deflated for the first time halfway through the day time light cycle. Since I had Cipro on hand and a HT ready I took it out and began treatment last night, 250mg to 10g. It now looks worse then the day it was shipped. My question is should I boost the Cipro to 500mg or continue with 250 and hope for the best?

Tonight after 24hrs of Cipro

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah175/Jrsdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshlgvaiyh.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/Jrsdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpshlgvaiyh.jpeg.html)

Saturday night before first deflation
http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah175/Jrsdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsl5xcjvzs.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/Jrsdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsl5xcjvzs.jpeg.html)

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Jrsdaddy
12/21/2015, 09:17 PM
Anyone? Really don't wanna lose this one

Jrsdaddy
12/22/2015, 08:25 AM
I hate to jinx myself but now going on 48hrs and just started the daylight cycle and it looks a little better. I do remember reading that sometimes they look worse before looking better. Fingers crossed

joshkirkland83
12/22/2015, 09:11 AM
I hate to jinx myself but now going on 48hrs and just started the daylight cycle and it looks a little better. I do remember reading that sometimes they look worse before looking better. Fingers crossed
Im with ya. Im in the first 24 of treating a sunburst.

Jrsdaddy
12/23/2015, 06:49 AM
Day 2 I thought it started to look a little better

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah175/Jrsdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrdv4o4i1.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/Jrsdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsrdv4o4i1.jpeg.html)


Now today it looks like this

http://i1380.photobucket.com/albums/ah175/Jrsdaddy/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps0h7vzl3c.jpeg (http://s1380.photobucket.com/user/Jrsdaddy/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps0h7vzl3c.jpeg.html)

Im really considering increasing the dosage to 500mg since it looks like complete crap now. Any advice or insite would be appreciated

OrionN
12/23/2015, 09:28 AM
I have no advice for you other than follow the treatment protocols and hope for the best

Jrsdaddy
12/23/2015, 09:33 AM
Thanks Minh , tonight when I add my next dose I'm going to add 500mg and cross my fingers.

OrionN
12/23/2015, 11:45 AM
Now that he is almost off the rock I would get the rock out. Use inert cup or something for him to attach to. The objective here is minimized the amount of bacterial in the treatment tank. LR have a lot of bacterial. Invariably some will be resistant to the med. if you start out with no other bacterial other than the infection the chance of cure is better

Jrsdaddy
12/23/2015, 01:09 PM
Makes perfect sense, thank you I will give it a try!

Brando5185
01/14/2016, 04:17 PM
New haddoni came in and he has 2 small tears around his mouth. His insides were bubbling out, he wont attach and his tentacles are not sticky. He is in a 10g treatment tank with cipro now. Should i be worried about the tears?

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_170845_zpsc1dwpvhr.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_170845_zpsc1dwpvhr.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_170942_zpsxwhaqwk8.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_170942_zpsxwhaqwk8.jpg.html)

OrionN
01/14/2016, 09:19 PM
Just treat him. You can loose sleep over it but it does no good in getting him better :)

LisaE
01/15/2016, 01:02 PM
Minh, what's the maximum dosage you would recommend of a combination of cipro and septra together in a 10 gallon tank for a gig?

Brando5185
01/15/2016, 03:59 PM
Pics of green haddoni right after acclimating to qt tank.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_120559_zpsadt3xzak.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_120559_zpsadt3xzak.jpg.html)

Nem before lights out day 1

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_161843_zpshuqa7c17.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160114_161843_zpshuqa7c17.jpg.html)

Nem morning of day 2

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_082007_zpshteezs53.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_082007_zpshteezs53.jpg.html)

Nem after i got home from work today

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_163049_zpssiryipjr.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_163049_zpssiryipjr.jpg.html)

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/brando5185/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_163054_zpskkvizuha.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/brando5185/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20160115_163054_zpskkvizuha.jpg.html)

Going to do a 100% wc before lights out and redose. Foot is planted to glass now, tentacles are getting sticky, but mouth is still gaping and has 2 tears right by its mouth.

OrionN
01/15/2016, 04:57 PM
You need to have better egg crate. Cut it right to size and jammed it in there either by bend it a little or use tubing and jammed it in so it wont move.
Change water whenever the anemone discharge and clown up the water. and at the end of the day.

LisaE
01/15/2016, 08:19 PM
Minh, what's the maximum dosage you would recommend of a combination of cipro and septra together in a 10 gallon tank for a gig?

OrionN
01/15/2016, 08:31 PM
I do not recommend use both antibiotic. I have never use them together

LisaE
01/15/2016, 11:36 PM
I apologize if I'm not using the reference correctly. I'm asking about the dosage for using ciprofloxacin together with Sulfamethoxazole/trimethoprim.

This is from an old post of yours from 07/2014:

My last Blue Gigantea from DD, I treated with Trim/Sulfa. He relaped when I have to end treatment early. I put him back in TT and treat him with combination of Ciprofloxacin and Trim/sulfa. He is doing better despite a heat controller mal-function that got the tank temp up to 90 degree for a few hrs (in my QT reef system where I put this anemone in after treatment). Enough to crash the Xenia population I have there but I fixed that with 3 100% water change. The Gigantea seem to have a minor set back but doing well. I will update the thread later.

Using this combination is also mentioned at the beginning of the "protocol" sticky, with a max dosage of Cipro to 500mg/10gal and SMZ & TP to 800mg/160mg.

I was just wondering what dosage worked for you on the blue gig and what you recommend as the max dose.

OrionN
01/15/2016, 11:52 PM
That Gigantea did not make it. I did not remember treating him with both. If I wrote what you quote I must have but it though I change antibiotic because I knew later that Kevin at DD treated him with Cipro.
If I am treating an anemone right now and he does not response to one antibiotic I would change it to the other not both. If I know that he was treated before with one I would use the other antibiotic.

ThRoewer
01/18/2016, 03:13 AM
Minh, what's the maximum dosage you would recommend of a combination of cipro and septra together in a 10 gallon tank for a gig?

I have gone as high as 250 mg Cipro per 5 gallon with giganteas, twice the regular dose.
One made it and is doing fine now.
The other was still not well after the treatment so 2 weeks after the cipro treatment I did another round with Septra. I feel that one gave the anemone the rest.

I would say Cipro is the preferred antibiotic for giganteas. It also dissolves much better in saltwater than Septra.

LisaE
01/18/2016, 04:44 PM
I'm treating a blue gig. This isn't a new anemone, but one that had been in my tank for almost 3 years. I believe it caught an infection from another anemone in my main tank, even though they were in separate compartments.

I started treatment with a 250mg/10 gallons dose of Cipro. When that didn't seem to be working after a week (still deflating), added 400mg/80mg Septra along with the Cipro. It seemed to show improvement for three days (not enough to put it in my main tank, but better), but when I increased the Septra to 800mg/160mg for one dose, it reacted very badly. I thought it was a goner.

I changed back to Cipro only, but increased dose to 500mg/10 gallons, and it looked much better the next day. However, after almost three more days the mouth is still gaping, although it is not deflating any more. I would grade it a 4-5 on Amoo's System, as the mouth is still open and sometimes I can see the insides.

Just don't know where to go from here, if it's not improving at the max dose of Cipro. It didn't react well to the Cipro and Septra combination that's suggested by Amoo at the beginning of this thread (although I have used this successfully before), but what I'm doing doesn't seem to be kicking the infection. I'm considering switching to Septra only for a bit.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

OrionN
01/18/2016, 05:31 PM
Can you post some picture?
Seem like it is doing OK with Cipro, I would continue with it. It seem to also doing Ok with 250 cipro plus 400/80 septra, you can use this dose and hope for the best.
There is really no base for my recommendation other than the fact that you said it is doing better

ReyR
01/18/2016, 11:37 PM
How do you know if your avenge have a bacterial infection? I have a green bta and rainbow bta. I did I tank upgrade two months ago. Ever since they've not been happy. Rainbow had faded significantly. The green will get dark for a few days then regain is color, only to darken up again. This past week they were having a difficult time attaching to anything. I don't notice them oozing a significant amount of stuff, at least not more than normal. Ive been thinking of antibiotic treatment. Thoughts? Parameters are stable. Immediately following the upgraded, I did have a alk spike, some of the other coral were not happy, for a week. But they've all since recovered and are thriving.

overklok
02/20/2016, 04:26 AM
Just wanted to thank Minh for this thread!! The treatment protocol for dying anemones does work!! I have a H. Magnifica that was doing poorly after shipping. After 12 hours of treatment with Septra 800/160, it is looking Magnificent!!!

OrionN
02/20/2016, 06:50 AM
How do you know if your avenge have a bacterial infection? I have a green bta and rainbow bta. I did I tank upgrade two months ago. Ever since they've not been happy. Rainbow had faded significantly. The green will get dark for a few days then regain is color, only to darken up again. This past week they were having a difficult time attaching to anything. I don't notice them oozing a significant amount of stuff, at least not more than normal. Ive been thinking of antibiotic treatment. Thoughts? Parameters are stable. Immediately following the upgraded, I did have a alk spike, some of the other coral were not happy, for a week. But they've all since recovered and are thriving.

If they are not doing well you can try treatment. What you are experience is not classic for infection

OrionN
02/20/2016, 06:51 AM
Just wanted to thank Minh for this thread!! The treatment protocol for dying anemones does work!! I have a H. Magnifica that was doing poorly after shipping. After 12 hours of treatment with Septra 800/160, it is looking Magnificent!!!

Thanks. He may be stressed from shipping and may be recovering from it

ReyR
02/21/2016, 12:48 AM
If they are not doing well you can try treatment. What you are experience is not classic for infection
You are right. It most definitely not an infection. It was from an alk spike. It's now on the road to recovery.

CFC_Surge
06/01/2016, 06:24 PM
I have an exotic BTA that is not doing well right now, and I have started a treatment with Kenaplex. Has anyone used this before? I have consulted a couple of trusted industry people and was recommended this over other meds that I have. I'm already seeing an improvement on the nem in question within a few hours.
Cipro has been ordered, but it wont be here for a few days.

Video before treatment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz_GYmxyrzw

Diesel3443
07/10/2016, 09:30 PM
So I am getting my first gig on tues. my HT is already setup and I have cipro on hand. Should I observe before treating, see if it deflates or just treat after acclimated?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

OrionN
07/10/2016, 09:56 PM
IMO, If you do not have a lot of experience on knowing when a Gigantea is sick it is better if you treat the Gig empirically on arrival.