Advice on Yellow Tang that is getting thin.

[SCRID]

Hi Everyone.
I have a Yellow Tang that has been in my 65 gal. tank for the last month and doing fine.
Recently she is getting thin and not eating. This seems like it all started after adding a couple anemones to the DT. I cannot yet blame the anemones.
All my water params are just fine. I have been checking them daily. All other fish are eating normally which include a Naso Tang.
All the Yellow Tang really liked to eat before was the frozen mysis shrimp. She is getting painfully thin, swimming rather lazily, but still tries to pick at the shrimp.
I noticed that she bites at the shrimp way too soon when it's still another centimeter in front of her mouth. It's like her depth perception is off. Then when she does get a smell piece in her mouth she will spit it back out and go hide again.
Any thoughts or help would be fantastic!
Thanks. Chris

[Ngoodermuth]

Has it taken any greens? Have you tried flake foods?

Maybe add a little garlic to the food or try some different foods. Even the brand of food... I normally feed PE Mysis, but had a new fish in QT that wasn't eating it. I decided on a whim to try some Ocean Nutrition Mysis and Brine that I had in my freezer and the fish took right to it. He now eats pellets and anything else I throw at him - including PE Mysis.

Usually, if I have a fish that is not eating I will basically throw any food I have in my possession at it until I find one it likes, and then wean it back onto the more nutritious items once it settles in.

Another thing you might want to rule out is internal parasites or flukes. Decreased appetite is an indicator... along with twitching, scratching, and/or stringy poops.

[SCRID]

Yes I tried soaking all the food I have in the garlic which included mysis, dry brine, spirulina, and flake food. She still wont take any without spitting it out again.
I was reading here about the good luck people have had with Prazipro.
I'm going to pick some up today and try that for parasites.
Hopefully she might be getting some nutrition just from mouthing the pieces she manages to catch.
Thanks.

[MrTuskfish]

When fish are this disoriented, I think they are in real trouble. Worming with Prazi-Pro may help, it should be used on all new fish, IMO. Garlic isn't a magical cure for anything. It may help a fish's appetite, which in turn, helps the immune system. But this is a long-term process that has any benefits that you'll see tomorrow. BTW, yhe only parasites kills are parasitic worms. A pic of this fish may help.

[MrTuskfish]

Too late to edit: If the tang has been eating for a month and still getting very thin, my first guess would be internal parasites. I think buying every food in sight is a waste of time and money. Offer frequent feedings of foods he' used to eating. This is a problem (and I think a serious one) with the fish; not the diet. A new food isn't going to cure a fish that is having disorientation and sensory problems.

[Ngoodermuth]

Too late to edit: If the tang has been eating for a month and still getting very thin, my first guess would be internal parasites. I think buying every food in sight is a waste of time and money. Offer frequent feedings of foods he' used to eating. This is a problem (and I think a serious one) with the fish; not the diet. A new food isn't going to cure a fish that is having disorientation and sensory problems.

I did mention internal parsites, and yes prazi-pro works wonders. Also note that the tang has only been eating mysis for a month (sparingly) and hasn't taken nori or any other green foods which is not good for a fish that is supposed to be primarily an herbivore.

And I wasn't suggesting to buy every food in sight, just to try other things the op may have in their arsenal but wouldn't think of offering this particular fish (like those sample jars of flake foods you get at swaps, or the frozen food that sits in the back of your freezer untouched bc you got something better). I definately would suggest buying algae sheets or nori.

And yes, I meant to use garlic as an appetite stimulant... not to treat for any disease or as a miracle cure.

And lastly I don't see why you felt the need, Mr Tuskfish, to attack my post... geez.

[SCRID]

Thanks everyone for the info unfortunately she did not survive.
With in a 4 hour period she went from holding her own still swimming slowly to dead. Then I searched the entire tank for her but could not find a body,...until I saw some yellow in one of my anonomes.
It seems now my small damsel is missing as well, and within the same period of time suddenly my hogfish looks near death as well.
This all went really downhill after dosing with the prazi.
I left to run some errands and give the fish some calming time and I come back and it seems all hell has broken loose.
At this point I'm still not sure what the initial infection was or is and how many more fish I will lose. My Naso tang still looked good last nite as well as my coral angel.
Heres a picture of a suspicious brown spot on the yellow tank yesterday about an hour or so before she died.
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg543/scrid/IMG_20130320_131937_722_zps77878d5f.jpg

[MrTuskfish]

I did mention internal parsites, and yes prazi-pro works wonders. Also note that the tang has only been eating mysis for a month (sparingly) and hasn't taken nori or any other green foods which is not good for a fish that is supposed to be primarily an herbivore.

And I wasn't suggesting to buy every food in sight, just to try other things the op may have in their arsenal but wouldn't think of offering this particular fish (like those sample jars of flake foods you get at swaps, or the frozen food that sits in the back of your freezer untouched bc you got something better). I definately would suggest buying algae sheets or nori.

And yes, I meant to use garlic as an appetite stimulant... not to treat for any disease or as a miracle cure.

And lastly I don't see why you felt the need, Mr Tuskfish, to attack my post... geez.

I sure didn't mean to attack anything. When I do attack, you'll know it. I rarely do.

[Ngoodermuth]

I'm sorry for your losses :(

Hopefully you can get to the bottom of it.

[SCRID]

This really ****es me off too because its not fair to the fish.
Everything was good too.
I finally felt like I might be getting the basics of this hobby down.
dammit.

[MrTuskfish]

Are you using a QT with all new fish? Yellow tangs are almost bullet-proof and I think this fish has been starving for a long time. A QT will give you a much better chance at finding the cause of your problems and fix them in the QT. Because there just doesn't seem much to go on; I'd do a giant water change, check ammonia and avoid any additions for a couple of months. Do you have any good SW books (Fenner's "The Conscience Marine Aquarist", either volume, is a great basic book. The RC is great , but new hobbyists really need more info. Yeah, I'm old; but books still have a place. Its amazing what you'll learn from a book like this; you can't learn this hobby in little bits, reading will give you a big dose of knowledge,

[Overgrown]

I'm sorry but a 65 is the absolute breaking point for a yellow Tang, and I can't believe you have a Naso in there. Not cool. My constructive advice:be a more responsible aquarist and follow the guidelines set in place by reputable entities such as LiveAquaria , PacIslandAquatics etc. Do the right thing for your inhabitants: Get a larger tank

[Overgrown]

Double

[SCRID]

Are you using a QT with all new fish? Yellow tangs are almost bullet-proof and I think this fish has been starving for a long time. A QT will give you a much better chance at finding the cause of your problems and fix them in the QT. Because there just doesn't seem much to go on; I'd do a giant water change, check ammonia and avoid any additions for a couple of months. Do you have any good SW books (Fenner's "The Conscience Marine Aquarist", either volume, is a great basic book. The RC is great , but new hobbyists really need more info. Yeah, I'm old; but books still have a place. Its amazing what you'll learn from a book like this; you can't learn this hobby in little bits, reading will give you a big dose of knowledge,

I do have a QT set up in the basement. A 10 gallon. I made the mistake of putting some crushed coral and one rock in there when I set it up though.
All my tank params ore good, I checked them multiple times yesterday.
Salinity is 1.025, ammonia is 0ppm, PH is ideal, Nitrites and Nitrates are both well in the safe zone and tested them with two different dip strip kits.

Last nite I was up til 3am. My hogfish was laying on his belley in my tank around 10:30 pm after dosing the DT with Prozipro around 2:00 PM.
Then this may have been a mistake but I also added some Melafix to the DT as well.
I scooped the Hogfish out and took him down to the QT which I have that salinity at a Hypo value. I let him swim around in there for a half hour and he seemed pretty perky,.. but then just layed on the bottom again. I put him back in the DT after that and he again went to the bottom. I went to bed figuring he would be a gonner by morning not knowing what else to do.
This morning he is looking like his old self again swimming around and eating.
My Naso tang and Coral Angel are also both OK as well as both cleaner shrimp and corals.
However I noticed my small lightning strike damsel has some white patches on it's mouth.
I will add a couple picks.
Not sure what I should do at this point everyone.
I know I probably made a dozen mistakes in dealing with this sudden problem, if so don't hesitate to chew me out and correct me! If I have to learn by someone yelling at me then so be it.
I was not sure if the Melafix or Prozipro may cause distress to a fish that has issues.
I would like to get the damsel fixed up and all better.
I think my first mistake was adding coral stock from other peoples tanks without QT'ing them or dipping them to try and remove any hitch hikers or problematic diseases. I will have to read up on doing that.
Is there a stickey on how to quarantine new stock?
Thanks again!
http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg543/scrid/IMG_20130321_132240_939_zps3e5f9dbd.jpg

http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg543/scrid/IMG_20130321_132231_331_zps3ccbc65e.jpg

[DrPat]

Just read most of this thread. Sorry to see that you lost the tang. From the photo the fish is emaciated which means it is and has been under nourished for some time. This is part of the learning curve . Always examine a fish prior to purchasing it they should be thick or well rounded, eating in the store and have been there for 1 or 2 weeks if not then its a gamble . Also someone raised the QT question. If you are not placing all fish in a holding tank for 2 to 3 months prior to placing the fish in the Display Tank then you jeopardize all the fish in the dt every time you add a new fish and eventually you will get a wipe out and loose them all.Yellow tangs are extremely resistant and difficult to kill, but if you acquire a poor specimen then you will loose. Tangs have high metabolic rate which means that they have to eat almost constantly. This should not be too difficult if you have unwanted algae for them to graze on in between your frequent feedings. Norri should be offered to tangs daily. My METHOD of feeding Norri is to wrap a precut sheet around a inch PVC nipple and hang it in the tank by suspending it with 20 lb fishing mono filament.
Judicious use of medications:
WEAK individuals can die from the effects of the medication [ I think your tang was a goner meds or not ]
Dont get discouraged we all loose fish from time to time.

[Ngoodermuth]

Do you have any good SW books (Fenner's "The Conscience Marine Aquarist", either volume, is a great basic book. The RC is great , but new hobbyists really need more info. Yeah, I'm old; but books still have a place. Its amazing what you'll learn from a book like this; you can't learn this hobby in little bits, reading will give you a big dose of knowledge,

+1 I have this, volume two.

Also, advancedaquarist.com and reefkeeping.com are places I frequent.

[SCRID]

I'm sorry but a 65 is the absolute breaking point for a yellow Tang, and I can't believe you have a Naso in there. Not cool. My constructive advice:be a more responsible aquarist and follow the guidelines set in place by reputable entities such as LiveAquaria , PacIslandAquatics etc. Do the right thing for your inhabitants: Get a larger tank

When I looked into getting the yellow I used Reefs2Go site which said 60 gallon min tank.
The guys at the local store where I bought the Naso knew my tank size and said no problem.
Back in 2001 I had a 55 gallon tank with one of each in there. The Naso grew to 6.5" and my yellow at the time to almost 5". Both were very happy, healthy and loved to swim the length of the tank, I eventually got out of the hobby and gave them back to the LFS where I bought them.
I'll be more careful on researching in the future. Thanks.

[SCRID]

Just read most of this thread. Sorry to see that you lost the tang. From the photo the fish is emaciated which means it is and has been under nourished for some time. This is part of the learning curve . Always examine a fish prior to purchasing it they should be thick or well rounded, eating in the store and have been there for 1 or 2 weeks if not then its a gamble . Also someone raised the QT question. If you are not placing all fish in a holding tank for 2 to 3 months prior to placing the fish in the Display Tank then you jeopardize all the fish in the dt every time you add a new fish and eventually you will get a wipe out and loose them all.Yellow tangs are extremely resistant and difficult to kill, but if you acquire a poor specimen then you will loose. Tangs have high metabolic rate which means that they have to eat almost constantly. This should not be too difficult if you have unwanted algae for them to graze on in between your frequent feedings. Norri should be offered to tangs daily. My METHOD of feeding Norri is to wrap a precut sheet around a inch PVC nipple and hang it in the tank by suspending it with 20 lb fishing mono filament.
Judicious use of medications:
WEAK individuals can die from the effects of the medication [ I think your tang was a goner meds or not ]
Dont get discouraged we all loose fish from time to time.

DrPat, this Yellow was skinny when I bought her, but she did eat alot during the time I had her. She just never fattened up. May have been an early sign of an intestinal parasite?
I always hate to lose fish!
Thanks man.

[SCRID]

So as it stands I have the DT dosed with the Pozipro and melafix.
I turned the skimmer off as recommended with the Pozipro.
What would you guys do at this point?
You are all the experts here. I'm lucky to have found this group.

[DrPat]

Scrid
internal parasites are possible but I have to tell you I have been keeping reef fish and inverts since 1969 and never have I had to deworm a fish or loose one to internal parasites. I know because even as a kid I was doing post mortem dissections. We will never know the cause,All ONE CAN DO IS LEARN FROM EACH EXPERIENCE AND TRY NOT TO REPEAT MISTAKES especially since there are many new mistakes to commit[ LOL]. Resist the temptation when you go to the LFS with a pocket full of money to buy a fish if its not in the best of condition . Remember there will always be another. and better it dies there then in you qt. I struggle with that often MY girlfriend says I need fishaholics anonymous. GOOD LUCK

[DrPat]

All I use in qt is copper power and keep my temps at 82 F. If external parasites develope I raise my temps to 85F. High quality diverse foods , lighting schedule equal to dt ,filter, also UV filter no skimming, it removes meds .Water changes as needed but add proper meds to replacement water prior to adding it. Also siphon the bare bottom as needed. Always aerate well with a coarse bubble air stone. I do not suggest medicine cocktails without having a diagnosed disease to treat. Nor have I ever used meds other than copper power. These fish have been through a lot before we get them. But a disease process is probably not what is ailing them, its the stress of shipping, new diets or not eating for many days,constant water changes, fighting and being exposed to a completely different world than the reef . BUT they make it through because they are amazingly strong. THEY NEED STABILITY ,TLC ,and nutrition in a safe non competitive environment . thats why QT is so important
One other thing BEWARE of so called experts they think they know it all.
there are no experts just different levels of knowledge. an EXPERT would never make a mistake... we all eventually make a mistake thats how we learn!

[SCRID]

Thanks DrPat.
I removed all the crushed coral and rock from my QT.
I need to siphon the silt off the bottom.
So your highly recommending the copper power as an all around QT preventative?
Wow your system info sounds like one hell of a set up!!!

[DrPat]

Copper power is chelated so its the least toxic to fish and very long lasting. My Q tanks are bare bottom with black contact paper on all sides and bottom. I use PVC PIPE cut into different sizes to accommodate fish you can by elbows and fittings if you cant cut pipe or dont want to buy a lenght.There are many ways to do the same thing in this hobby and we each have or develope preferences.I have great success with that plan

[SCRID]

Ok I have an old freshwater ceramic decoration pipe I can toss in there for a hiding place.
The back is covered but Ill do the sides as well.
Would you recommend getting my damsel in there and treating with copper for the mouth fungus? ( i think thats what it is)

[DrPat]

if its not a problem to cover the sides I would .The ceramic pipe should be ok and yes treat all exposed fish .

[saltyair]

Just need to add this :-)

Sorry for your loss with the yellow tang - how long did you have it? When did you add the naso and angel? The best advise I can give you is don't add more fish. This is from experience (I also learned the hard way) A 65 gal is way too small for a naso / let alone a naso and yellow tang.
If the YT was skinny before - you are probably correct that internal parasites were the issue.
the bio load you have could also mess with water quality - how long has the tank been established? do you have a skimmer?

just a few things to consider before replacing.

once again sorry for your loss - it always sucks.