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View Full Version : PSA - Inspect new equipment and tanks for damage before leaving the store!


softieatheart
03/25/2013, 09:52 AM
I bought a new 220 Perfecto tank last month during a special they were running.

I drove almost 4 hours to the business that ordered it for me. (I could have gotten it at a closer reef store, but wanted to throw these guys my business as they are way more supportive of our reef club than the one closer.) Got to the store where they loaded it into my trailer and strapped it down and I went on my merry way (after impulse buying a few more corals. HA!).

Anyway, I was buying early to take advantage of the sale and was not ready to set the tank up as the steel stand was not made yet, so the tank, still strapped to the trailer, went straight into the shed, and wasn't touched again.

Last week it was looking like we were finally ready to start rocking and rolling, so I backed the trailer up to the house, took off the plastic and cardboard in preparation to bring it in the house and discovered that the top black plastic frame is cracked on two back corners by the overflows.

I immediately sent pictures to the store owner and he seems to be trying to deal with Perfecto for me to get me another tank, but apparently Perfecto is insisting the "damage was caused by the customer".

I would love to know how they can immediately default to it being my fault when there are so many people in contact with and moving a tank before it finally reaches the customer, but whatever.

The bottom line is, I very, very stupidly did not inspect the tank before I left the premises, and if I had, I would have discovered the damage and I wouldn't be in this mess right now.

The idea that Perfecto might not honor the warranty and I might be out this money is making me ill, and honestly, I am kinda mad at the store that they didn't check it out, either. The manager told me over the phone that they hadn't and added in a huffy way that he guessed that now they would have to unwrap and inspect every tank like it was my fault and not something they should have to do. (I didn't even know what to say to that!)

From now on, I am doing a complete unpacking and inspection of every item before I walk out the door. I don't care if it is inconvenient for me and I don't care if the store finds it annoying, it is happening. If a manufacturer or a store is even going to THINK about not honoring damage simply because they think they can get away with it because a few weeks have passed since purchase, we ALL need to be doing this.

I mean, we all have bought something that we didn't use right away, right? I have several pieces of equipment that I have bought one at a time over the last 6 months in planning for this tank. Return pump, lights, algae scrubber, skimmer. None of these have been tested and a couple haven't even been opened. Now I am kicking myself for not inspecting them in the store and not testing them immediately upon getting home. Hopefully nothing is wrong with them.

The bottom line is, don't give a manufacturer or LFS the opportunity to screw you over. Inspect stuff in store and test it out immediately when you get home, even if you aren't ready to use it right away.

Don't be stupid like me. :(

syrinx
03/25/2013, 10:04 AM
This is a tough one. I do agree with you that everything should be inspected before leaving. I owned a shop for years,and I did inspect every tank before I paid for them- right off the truck. Had I ordered you a large tank such as that- my markup would have been less than 10%- so I would have had little room to help if the factory would not. Knowing the length of time between purchase and discovery would help me decide what I would do.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 10:19 AM
This is a tough one. I do agree with you that everything should be inspected before leaving. I owned a shop for years,and I did inspect every tank before I paid for them- right off the truck. Had I ordered you a large tank such as that- my markup would have been less than 10%- so I would have had little room to help if the factory would not. Knowing the length of time between purchase and discovery would help me decide what I would do.

Yep, the time between purchase and discovery creates a problem, but as you said, YOU INSPECTED THEM when they were delivered. My store did not, by their own admission.

The store manager was pretty snippy with me, but the store owner seems to be going to bat for me.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 10:21 AM
Hey, Syrinx, let me ask you a question. When I got there to pick up the tank, the tank, and a couple others, were standing on end to take up less floor space. Now I am wondering if that is normal and might not be what caused the damage?

syrinx
03/25/2013, 10:37 AM
Its normal to stand them on end. I have never seen damage that way. It was suprising to me actually, that more tanks were not damaged in shipping. I had very few refusals from the major manufacturers.

fishgate
03/25/2013, 10:45 AM
Wow I am glad I did not have any damage! I left my new 125g tank sitting on the floor for over a month in the cardboard too waiting to need it.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 11:22 AM
Its normal to stand them on end. I have never seen damage that way.

Thanks. That makes me feel a little better.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 11:29 AM
Knowing the length of time between purchase and discovery would help me decide what I would do.

Oh, I am sorry. I just realized this was a question.

I picked it up on 2/9 and discovered the damage on 3/20.

syrinx
03/25/2013, 12:05 PM
That puts everyone in a tough position. I would not have been able to warrantee that-its just too long for too many things to have happened. Even a couple weeks would be iffy. This is the kind of case where two things would be possible-first you getting the next tank at cost- which in my case would save you 50 bucks maybe. Second would be a "backroom" deal between my wholesaler rep and myself- to order another tank and claim it was the broken one. Thats not the thing I would like to be put in the position to do-but sometimes thats how it works. In your case since there has already been a claim processed to the manufacturer-this is no longer a possibility. There is just no getting around that without inspection by either party- there is honestly no way to know when and where the damage occured.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 12:20 PM
That puts everyone in a tough position. I would not have been able to warrantee that-its just too long for too many things to have happened. Even a couple weeks would be iffy. This is the kind of case where two things would be possible-first you getting the next tank at cost- which in my case would save you 50 bucks maybe. Second would be a "backroom" deal between my wholesaler rep and myself- to order another tank and claim it was the broken one. Thats not the thing I would like to be put in the position to do-but sometimes thats how it works. In your case since there has already been a claim processed to the manufacturer-this is no longer a possibility. There is just no getting around that without inspection by either party- there is honestly no way to know when and where the damage occured.


If the manufacturer refuses to replace it, shouldn't the onus be on the LFS given they did not inspect it when it was delivered?

Yeah, I get that it sucks for them, but isn't that part of being in business?

syrinx
03/25/2013, 12:45 PM
The onus would be on the dealer to the wholesaler if he didnt inspect it and later tried to claim damage. That onus shifted to you when you did not inspect it. As I said if I were the dealer- I would be bending over backwards to try to help. I would try to work with the wholesaler- I would be inspecting the tank to see what could have caused the damage-and if all else fails try to find a way to fix the tank. If it is the top plastic bracing and rim- it can be replaced. Perhaps perfecto would consider this option and provide the parts. All this said- I still do not hold the LFS responsible-they should have inspected to keep this situation from happening-but the amount of time is just too great. There are many nuances of this situation I do not know-as well as the version of the story the pet shop might relate. I hope you understand how much I feel for you on this. I have had such situations happen myself-and I know that crestfallen feeling all too well. I am just trying to be unbiased and objective, while using my experience as a retailer and enthusiast.

eyesinthedrk
03/25/2013, 01:10 PM
you didn't inspect it either. why should they take all responsibility. i bought a used tank and drove it less than 4 miles in the back of a pick up truck cringing over every bump in the road. you drove it 4 hours strapped to a trailer. why do you assume it wasn't damaged in your possession?

MrClam
03/25/2013, 01:26 PM
Yea I have to side with the LFS on this one. When an item is shipped it is the responsibility of the new party to inspect it every time it changes hands. This is the only way to determine at what stage the damage occured. If you had seen the damage at the LFS he would have been out of money because he didnt inspect it when it arrived. But by picking it up and transporting it you assumed responsibility so the LFS and the manufacturer are going to argue that you broke it, and they would be right to do so. Unfortunate to be sure and Im sorry for that, but it was your mistake.

risin
03/25/2013, 01:45 PM
I had a similar problem with the top frame cracking. I installed a new one on a used tank, left it set outside for a few weeks (covered), and when I went back to use it, it was cracked. I'm almost certain it was the drastic temperature changes outside that caused it to crack.

A new bracket was only $30 for a 150 and it takes about 2 hours and a tube or 2 of silicon to repair. If you do repair it yourself take extra caution in removing the old frame; aside from that it's a pretty cake job.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 02:07 PM
you didn't inspect it either. why should they take all responsibility. i bought a used tank and drove it less than 4 miles in the back of a pick up truck cringing over every bump in the road. you drove it 4 hours strapped to a trailer. why do you assume it wasn't damaged in your possession?

Because it was strapped down in the trailer, nothing was touching the sides or the top and the damage occurred to the top. Given the fact that nothing has touched it while it has been in in my possession, it is reasonable for me to conclude that the damage didn't occur while it was in my possession.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 02:12 PM
I had a similar problem with the top frame cracking. I installed a new one on a used tank, left it set outside for a few weeks (covered), and when I went back to use it, it was cracked. I'm almost certain it was the drastic temperature changes outside that caused it to crack.

hmmmnn. It was sleeting when I picked it up and nasty cold, but it was stored in a heated shed. I wouldn't think the drive would have been enough. After all, those trucks and warehouses are not heated. But like I said, it was sleeting. The LFS did not seem to feel that was a problem when I picked it up, though.

A new bracket was only $30 for a 150 and it takes about 2 hours and a tube or 2 of silicon to repair. If you do repair it yourself take extra caution in removing the old frame; aside from that it's a pretty cake job.

Srsly? This gives me some hope that at least I am not going to be completely out $900/my tank. Thank you!

Now a question.....

I have not moved the tank one jot as I wanted to hear back from the LFS/manufacturer as to what was going to be done about it. In fact, it is still strapped down.

If the plastic frame on the bottom is likewise cracked, can that be easily replaced as well?

ETA: Probably too much to hope for that the lifetime warranty would still be in effect?

fishgate
03/25/2013, 02:45 PM
The warranty would not cover shipping damage. I agree it probably happened before it came into your possession. The dealer cannot be expected to open every tank to check for frame damage. Likewise a customer will not open everything they buy and inspect for damage before they leave. Had you gotten home and immediately opened it, you would have called and they would have replaced it almost certainly. You letting is sit until the project was at a point where the tank was needed (30 days) is not out of the realm of possibility. There is a certain amount of trust involved here.

The retailer should give you a new tank, period. He should then work it out with his distributor or shipping company to get credit for it. What he does after replacing the tank is not your problem. Him explaining to you what this will mean to the store financially and procedurally is extremely unprofessional. Again, their job is to make you happy and sell you product. What they do to do that is not your concern. They are the retail business. They are the ones that have the means and resources to eat the loss (or whatever they need to do - it matters not).

If it was me, I would expect the retailer to replace the tank. If he did not, I'd make sure your club knows about the incident. I'd become an ambassador of ill-will.

softieatheart
03/25/2013, 03:00 PM
The warranty would not cover shipping damage. I agree it probably happened before it came into your possession. The dealer cannot be expected to open every tank to check for frame damage. Likewise a customer will not open everything they buy and inspect for damage before they leave. Had you gotten home and immediately opened it, you would have called and they would have replaced it almost certainly. You letting is sit until the project was at a point where the tank was needed (30 days) is not out of the realm of possibility. There is a certain amount of trust involved here.

The retailer should give you a new tank, period. He should then work it out with his distributor or shipping company to get credit for it. What he does after replacing the tank is not your problem. Him explaining to you what this will mean to the store financially and procedurally is extremely unprofessional. Again, their job is to make you happy and sell you product. What they do to do that is not your concern. They are the retail business. They are the ones that have the means and resources to eat the loss (or whatever they need to do - it matters not).

If it was me, I would expect the retailer to replace the tank. If he did not, I'd make sure your club knows about the incident. I'd become an ambassador of ill-will.

Ambassador of ill-will! ROFL!

I lean toward having the same opinion as you do irt how the store should be handling it especially since they were very well aware that I wasn't ready to set it up, as the question of how long they could hold it for me given I wasn't ready for it was discussed.

I don't think there is a trust issue with them thinking I did something. Well, at least not on the owner's part. The manager did say something a little snide about it "bouncing around in the back of my trailer" and I pointed out that HE loaded it and strapped it down and it wasn't "bouncing around" in the back of my trailer any more than it was in the back of the trailer that delivered it to the store. :rolleyes:

Hopefully, the owner gets it worked out soon to the best possible outcome for everyone, but if he doesn't, I don't think I would get much sympathy within my club. The owner is on the board and pretty good buddies with the club's officers, is the website's admin, and the store is a primary club sponsor. :(

In all honesty, I think they are a pretty on the level place. They excellent quality corals and fish in top condition, and staff knows their stuff, which is why I chose to get the tank from them. I have never heard a complaint about them, so this is definitely a fluke. Hopefully one they make right.....

softieatheart
03/26/2013, 02:30 PM
Got an email from the owner today saying Perfecto is sending someone over to look at the tank.

That surprises me, that they would come out to the middle of nowhere, but at least it appears they haven't closed the door on the possibility of replacing it yet.

softieatheart
04/01/2013, 08:27 PM
Still have no answer from store owner and Perfecto still has not sent anyone to inspect it like they claimed they were.

In the meantime, my trailer is tied up and I can't use it because I was instructed to leave the tank exactly where it is.

This is really starting to get frustrating.

alton
04/02/2013, 05:33 AM
First of all I hope you get some of your money back or at least your tank fixed. Waiting a month to report a problem seems to be key, plus using a trailer to haul a tank is something I would never do because most are rough riding unless you have a ton of extra weight added to soften the ride. I have attached a picture to hopefully make you feel better, I helped a friend move his tank and when I arrived this is what he wanted to use?

dirkomatic
04/02/2013, 06:23 AM
If they don't fix it, it is an easy repair, as mentioned. It's just time consuming...

I bought a 55 from craigslist and someone else pick it up for me. When it finally got to me the BOTTOM frame was cracked in the corners. I ended up removing the bottom frame, taking off the bottom glass, resealing and putting on a new frame. Total cost with frame, shipping, silicone and a caulk gun was around $40. Took 8 hours for the repair, though. You have to remove ALL of the old silicone.

softieatheart
04/02/2013, 10:55 AM
First of all I hope you get some of your money back or at least your tank fixed. Waiting a month to report a problem seems to be key, plus using a trailer to haul a tank is something I would never do because most are rough riding unless you have a ton of extra weight added to soften the ride. I have attached a picture to hopefully make you feel better, I helped a friend move his tank and when I arrived this is what he wanted to use?

Yeah, me too..... :(

I didn't "wait" to report the damage. I reported it when it was discovered, but I get what you are saying.

FWIW, though, this is a nice, heavy, high-sided trailer. It doesn't bounce around any more than the vehicle does.

If they don't fix it, it is an easy repair, as mentioned. It's just time consuming...

I bought a 55 from craigslist and someone else pick it up for me. When it finally got to me the BOTTOM frame was cracked in the corners. I ended up removing the bottom frame, taking off the bottom glass, resealing and putting on a new frame. Total cost with frame, shipping, silicone and a caulk gun was around $40. Took 8 hours for the repair, though. You have to remove ALL of the old silicone.

Yeah, I know now that I can repair it, but am nervous about the integrity of the tank. It obviously was banged pretty good to cause that damage, and I just wonder if the seams have been compromised and are weak, now, too. A tank blowing is everyone's nightmare and 220 gallons is a LOT of water, plus, if I keep this tank and repair it myself, I am obviously not going to have a warranty now, which also ****es me off.

Why did you take the bottom glass off?

Jeff120reef
04/02/2013, 11:55 AM
This is a very tough situation....you are saying you "strapped" it down... any chance you may have over-tightened it? Strapping it over the plastic top and hitting a bump could have caused the damage. (Unfortunately, no way to know). I'm not trying to defend the store or the manufacturer but I could see myself being very worried about it moving around on the trailer and accidentally tighten it down too much. If you didn't personally inspect it at the store and the LFS didn't inspect it...hate to say but you are as equally responsible for not inspecting it as the store. Good Luck and I hope you get to resolution you are looking for!

dirkomatic
04/02/2013, 01:19 PM
Yeah, me too..... :(
Yeah, I know now that I can repair it, but am nervous about the integrity of the tank. It obviously was banged pretty good to cause that damage, and I just wonder if the seams have been compromised and are weak, now, too.

Why did you take the bottom glass off?

Like you, I was concerned about the integrity of the bottom after I saw the frame was cracked. I took it off so I could put it back on myself and make sure it was still ok.

softieatheart
04/02/2013, 05:32 PM
This is a very tough situation....you are saying you "strapped" it down... any chance you may have over-tightened it? Strapping it over the plastic top and hitting a bump could have caused the damage. (Unfortunately, no way to know). I'm not trying to defend the store or the manufacturer but I could see myself being very worried about it moving around on the trailer and accidentally tighten it down too much. If you didn't personally inspect it at the store and the LFS didn't inspect it...hate to say but you are as equally responsible for not inspecting it as the store. Good Luck and I hope you get to resolution you are looking for!

Tank was loaded and strapped by LFS, and straps were "cushioned".

But yeah, the store should have caught it and failing that, I should have caught it sooner. That is why I am saying that from now on, I am not leaving a business until I open and inspect what is inside the package.

Like you, I was concerned about the integrity of the bottom after I saw the frame was cracked. I took it off so I could put it back on myself and make sure it was still ok.

Makes sense.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just got a message from the LFS. They have been dealing with the manufacturer and they got an email today from the manufacturer saying that instead of sending someone out, the manufacturer has decided to send a replacement tank to the LFS, I just need to take the other tanks back for exchange once the replacement arrives!!!!!

Hopefully this is what happens.

I am very happy with this potential outcome.

Psirex
04/02/2013, 05:35 PM
I bought a new 220 Perfecto tank last month during a special they were running.

I drove almost 4 hours to the business that ordered it for me. (I could have gotten it at a closer reef store, but wanted to throw these guys my business as they are way more supportive of our reef club than the one closer.) Got to the store where they loaded it into my trailer and strapped it down and I went on my merry way (after impulse buying a few more corals. HA!).

Anyway, I was buying early to take advantage of the sale and was not ready to set the tank up as the steel stand was not made yet, so the tank, still strapped to the trailer, went straight into the shed, and wasn't touched again.

Last week it was looking like we were finally ready to start rocking and rolling, so I backed the trailer up to the house, took off the plastic and cardboard in preparation to bring it in the house and discovered that the top black plastic frame is cracked on two back corners by the overflows.

I immediately sent pictures to the store owner and he seems to be trying to deal with Perfecto for me to get me another tank, but apparently Perfecto is insisting the "damage was caused by the customer".

I would love to know how they can immediately default to it being my fault when there are so many people in contact with and moving a tank before it finally reaches the customer, but whatever.

The bottom line is, I very, very stupidly did not inspect the tank before I left the premises, and if I had, I would have discovered the damage and I wouldn't be in this mess right now.

The idea that Perfecto might not honor the warranty and I might be out this money is making me ill, and honestly, I am kinda mad at the store that they didn't check it out, either. The manager told me over the phone that they hadn't and added in a huffy way that he guessed that now they would have to unwrap and inspect every tank like it was my fault and not something they should have to do. (I didn't even know what to say to that!)

From now on, I am doing a complete unpacking and inspection of every item before I walk out the door. I don't care if it is inconvenient for me and I don't care if the store finds it annoying, it is happening. If a manufacturer or a store is even going to THINK about not honoring damage simply because they think they can get away with it because a few weeks have passed since purchase, we ALL need to be doing this.

I mean, we all have bought something that we didn't use right away, right? I have several pieces of equipment that I have bought one at a time over the last 6 months in planning for this tank. Return pump, lights, algae scrubber, skimmer. None of these have been tested and a couple haven't even been opened. Now I am kicking myself for not inspecting them in the store and not testing them immediately upon getting home. Hopefully nothing is wrong with them.

The bottom line is, don't give a manufacturer or LFS the opportunity to screw you over. Inspect stuff in store and test it out immediately when you get home, even if you aren't ready to use it right away.

Don't be stupid like me. :(



Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

syrinx
04/02/2013, 06:47 PM
Glad to see things are working out. But the lesson is still valid- inspect before leaving, and do not leave a tank strapped down any longer than it has to be. I think the manufacture and LFS are really going the extra mile for you-and you have conducted your explanation of the situation here with the utmost of maturity. Win all the way around!

softieatheart
04/03/2013, 05:18 PM
But the lesson is still valid- inspect before leaving

Absolutely! Lesson learned. :)

I think the manufacture and LFS are really going the extra mile for you

They both will get major kudos from me the second I have the replacement! Good customer service goes a loooooong way with me and I am a loyal (and vocal) customer when I get it.

Thanks for the help and moral support, everyone. :)

thallone
04/03/2013, 10:03 PM
I pretty much always open things as soon as I get them. But for me, it's more of a 'kid in the candy store' thing. Don't know how most people can buy something and not get it out and run their hands over it as soon as they get to the car, be it fish stuff, auto parts, welders, you name it, I just got to get that new toy out before I even get it home. :bounce1: