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usmc121581
03/27/2013, 04:50 PM
I started vinager dosing in November to lower my trates from 20 to around 0-5, once that happened I started to get GHA in spots. Bought a phosphate test kit and it tested over 1ppm so I started GFO. Just tested on Monday and phos tested at .01ppm and nitrates are 0. My cheato does not grow as fast as it used to, all bulbs are no more then 4 months old. I changed skimmers asm g4 to a nac9. The one rock that seems to grow GHA good is roughly 20 lbs and has a chalice on top so remove is not in the picture and will be used as a last resort. I also get it growin in other spots throughout tank, I have been cleaning it off with a tooth brush. I have Mexican turbo snails and it isn't doing anything for it. I have never had GhA so dot know how to deal with it.

squishifishi
03/27/2013, 04:58 PM
Some people spot treat it with peroxide.
my tropical margarita snail eats it, and I think red leg hermit crabs do too, and nerite snails.
obviously, nothing is foolproof, but all worth a shot!

usmc121581
03/27/2013, 05:01 PM
Trod them all, that's when I decide to use the Mexican snails and even bought 2 emarLd crabs.

Arthur1
03/27/2013, 05:23 PM
USMC, I have not posted anything in a long time as I have been attending school for the last 2+ years and usually just haunt threads anyway. I have had to defeat the dreaded hair algae a few times in clients tanks. The last time, the odds were against me b/c that particular client was lets say..well nm. That particular tank (180 display) is mostly soft/lps corals with a couple sps in the mix. I won't get into the system as there is more volome to it and a skimmer that I could not ask more from. The aquarium is heavily fed against my advice and the rock work stacked up agaisnt the whole back wall, trapping a lot of organics. Sigh anyway what did it was this. I was siphoning and pulling the hair algae off of the live rock every week, doing water changes at about 70 gallons per week. I was changing the dreaded filter socks out at least once a week. There is a small refugium on this tank that imo is just a waste of space. I was running ferric oxide in the good ole bag as this client did not want to spend money on a phosphate reactor. Well this battle went on for a long time to say the least. Since I did not want to loose this account or be defeated, I didn't give the client the option and ordered a PO4 reactor. I also forgot to tell you that I lowered the light level (halides with actinic supplemenation) to either 3 or 4 hours a day. After all of the water changes to dilute the organic concentrations found within the water column, the lowered light levels, filter sock changes, zero phosphate readings, (as the algae was just utilizing it so quickly and someone's heavy hands were also contributing to a myriad of issues as well) I did not start to notice a difference until about a month after running the reactor. I loaded the reactor up with a lot of ferric oxide, changed it out after a week, then again 2 weeks later and I believe two weeks after that as well. The ferric oxide is changed out once a month as well. Shortly after "defeating" the algae from hell, I did actually use Instant Ocean's Natural Nitrate reducer for a few months. The skimmate was much darker after using IO's product and the collection cup changed a little more often as well. To sum it up, PO4 reactor, lower the photoperiod and maybe a few extra water changes. :eek1:

usmc121581
03/28/2013, 02:58 AM
That's the only thin I haven't done, is lower the light period.

nbelohlav
03/28/2013, 03:14 AM
try a TAS turf algae scrubber... i had GHA in my DT until i gave it somewhere else to grow..

gmneil
03/28/2013, 04:01 AM
try a sea hare or lettuce nudibranch they worked for me

Pederreefnerd
03/28/2013, 04:08 AM
Hi there,

The reason for yr GHA is simpel, its too much nutrients. Mostly No3 and Po4.

U need to deal with those values. N has to be below 2, and Po4 < 0.03.

Do water changes
Clean skimmer
Use a phosfate media aka Rowa or Seaklear
Feed yr fish less
Check yr husbandry !!!!!!
Put in CUC

Its very easy to ged rid of gHA, but u need to understand that it will take some time

Best of luck

Peder

usmc121581
03/28/2013, 04:22 AM
^ not to disagree, before I started vinager dosing in Nov 12 I have never had a single piece of GHA, within 6 weeks of starting it and the nitrates being tested at 0 is when it started showing up. I have read this can happen when you start dosing because the bacteria can not consume the phosphates as quick as nitrate. So I started running GFO for the last month. Skimmer is roughly1.5 months old, if I feed the fish anyone's they would starve, I only feed at the most 3-4 a week. I have been using GfO which phos tests out at .01 now. The clean up crew is 3 months old, don't mean to sound b*****, but I am kicking myself for even starting vinager dosing. Should have kept my trates at 15ppm, there was never an issue.

biggles
03/28/2013, 04:45 AM
I'm very certain you know what you're doing in regards to reefing so i see no point in offering obvious and already tried solutions, if they worked you wouldn't be posting. I would suggest that you remove the cheato completely and lower the circulation in that area of the sump - low enough to allow a small amount of detritus to settle on the bottom. Place a few pieces of rock in there for the GHA to get a good foothold and grow. Run the lights for about 4 hours longer than the DT cycle. I have done this with my current tank and the previous two. My first tank i tried macro algae like you and it grew but GHA is a lot greedier in regards to nutrients. It won't solve your long term problem in regards to what is producing the nutrient excess but it will remove the GHA from your DT to the sump.
In the last week i have begun upping the food to my DT and as a result i already have GHA in the sump again - not in the DT. I merely take it off line when it gets ridiculous and clean it out. I have SPS frags growing in the GHA area of the sump and it is lit with a 120W 50/50 blue white LED, not a yellow plant bulb. You can see how clean my DT is from my last tank journal entry, i can take a shot of the GHA in the sump now if you want proof lol. Just trying to give you an option that you haven't already tried and one that has always worked for me. Good luck, you will beat it mate.

biggles
03/28/2013, 04:57 AM
GHA brought to you by Reef-Roids........

http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a553/BigglesRC/gha_zpsd658c3cf.png

downbeach
03/28/2013, 05:11 AM
If the fronds appear more "fern" like, it may be bryopsis algae, which is very stubborn, and more difficult to get rid of. The one rock you have mentioned may be leaching PO4, and feeding the algae. IF it's bryopsis, you may have some more success by elevating the Mg to 1600+, most of the reading I've done seems to indicate there is some anecdotal evidence, that the make up of Kent Tech M has the most effect on this, and elevating your pH to 8.4 to 8.5. Using kalkwasser will help here. You may want to switch to Vodka for carbon dosing, as the vinegar will reduce pH. If you're doing any 2 part dosing, make sure you're using soda ash for your alk supplement, since baking soda has a lowering affect on pH. Get your Alk up to around 10.
I would make all these changes slowly and incrementally and test frequently. You might just try elevating you pH first, to see if that does the job for you, before you invest in a lot of Tech M. I think this was Calfo's method of dealing with it.
A last resort may be to take the rock out, bleach and etch it to remove the algae, and any PO4 that may be attached to the outer layers of the rock.

Pederreefnerd
03/28/2013, 05:16 AM
^ not to disagree, before I started vinager dosing in Nov 12 I have never had a single piece of GHA, within 6 weeks of starting it and the nitrates being tested at 0 is when it started showing up. I have read this can happen when you start dosing because the bacteria can not consume the phosphates as quick as nitrate. So I started running GFO for the last month. Skimmer is roughly1.5 months old, if I feed the fish anyone's they would starve, I only feed at the most 3-4 a week. I have been using GfO which phos tests out at .01 now. The clean up crew is 3 months old, don't mean to sound b*****, but I am kicking myself for even starting vinager dosing. Should have kept my trates at 15ppm, there was never an issue.


Hi again,

Sounds like u are doing many good things already, but u need to be more patient.
It takes time to starve out gha.

I think u have some Po4 leaching out of the rock, and to be frank - i dont trust or use hobbytestkit for po4 - readings are oftens zero, but algae is present.

Placing chaeto in sump, will not work- because it already stopped growing, and means that yr water parameters aregetting better.

If possible I would like to see a picture of yr algae, just be sure its not Lyngbya or Bryopsis as mentioned aove.

Regards

Peder

Reeferz412
03/28/2013, 07:30 AM
I dip my frags and rocks in hydrogen peroxide/tank water solution. Works for me. I see the algae just burn away.

usmc121581
03/28/2013, 09:05 AM
I'm very certain you know what you're doing in regards to reefing so i see no point in offering obvious and already tried solutions, if they worked you wouldn't be posting. I would suggest that you remove the cheato completely and lower the circulation in that area of the sump - low enough to allow a small amount of detritus to settle on the bottom. Place a few pieces of rock in there for the GHA to get a good foothold and grow. Run the lights for about 4 hours longer than the DT cycle. I have done this with my current tank and the previous two. My first tank i tried macro algae like you and it grew but GHA is a lot greedier in regards to nutrients. It won't solve your long term problem in regards to what is producing the nutrient excess but it will remove the GHA from your DT to the sump.
In the last week i have begun upping the food to my DT and as a result i already have GHA in the sump again - not in the DT. I merely take it off line when it gets ridiculous and clean it out. I have SPS frags growing in the GHA area of the sump and it is lit with a 120W 50/50 blue white LED, not a yellow plant bulb. You can see how clean my DT is from my last tank journal entry, i can take a shot of the GHA in the sump now if you want proof lol. Just trying to give you an option that you haven't already tried and one that has always worked for me. Good luck, you will beat it mate.

Thanks, thats the thing, my refug area is spot clean except for mangrooves and cheato.

usmc121581
04/01/2013, 05:10 PM
Well looking t it more I seem to have a war waged with Bryopsis.

reefgeezer
04/01/2013, 05:39 PM
Vinegar just can't fuel HA. Could something else must have happened at the same time that caused an increase in N or P? Remember, if HA is present your tests are not accurate because any free N or P is bound in the algae. AND... that bound N & P is only exported when the algae is physically removed. If the algae dies off it returns the N & P back into the water column. AND... the released N & P fuels more algae. Also, if your fuge isn't growing, it isn't binding N or P and my just be a detritus trap. That will actually increase N & P levels.

geaux xman
04/01/2013, 07:19 PM
have you tried emerald crabs? mine does really well with gha that it can reach.

MHG
04/01/2013, 07:31 PM
Algae fix marine will take care of hair algae if that is what you have. My lawnmower blenny ate my bipropsys although everyone says they won't eat it.....

sail33
04/01/2013, 07:59 PM
I mixed 2 1/2 gallons of fresh salt water with 16 oz of 3% hydrogen peroxide, like you find at the drug store, dip rocks with most soft coral like zoas, for 20 seconds. The algae will turn white within two days and be gone.
Some corals with thin skin can be damaged so read up, search peroxide and algae threads on RC.

Some use a hypodermic and squirt a small amount on the base of the algae avoiding the coral itself.
Do all of the above at your own risk AFTER careful study.

Next, find a thread on algae turf scrubbers. There is a sticky on the subject . You let the algae grow where you want it and that effectively starves it out from where you don't.

I haven't found light blackout to work fast enough for GHA. It's ok for cyano though.

Best of luck.

itzrulez
04/01/2013, 08:12 PM
try Algae Scrubber! it's what happen in nature!
look at this thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1967609&page=3

it's a really simply, and effective!

foreveralone
04/01/2013, 08:49 PM
When I had my GHA outbreak my CUC refused to help me out with it. I shaved 3 hours off of my light cycle, ran gfo, and added chaeto for some competition. The whole time I was prett aggressive with WC's. After roughly a month of this it was gone and never came back.

usmc121581
04/02/2013, 05:00 PM
I actually stopped vinegar dosing 1-1.5 months ago because of this popping up, what I started to do was lengthening the lighting for the refug, and shortened the MH period. I have thought about starting vinegar dosing again but I need to get a good phosphate and nitrate test kits and start of the results.

Jstdv8
04/02/2013, 05:10 PM
I will throw a third +1 in for the algae scrubber. I had bad GHA in my DT and after about 6 weeks running the scrubber it was all gone, it outcompeted my cheato ball and killed it off.
My phos and trates have been undetectable ever since. 3 years now.
You do have to clean it once a week to export out the nutrient filled algae, but other than that it is as solid a filtration system as I can think of.
The problem with crabs and snails and things that eat the stuff is you aren't exporting anything out of the tank, they are mowing it down and pooping the nutrients right back in there. The key is to use something that exports the bad stuff you don't want.

Pederreefnerd
04/03/2013, 06:59 AM
Vinegar just can't fuel HA. Could something else must have happened at the same time that caused an increase in N or P? Remember, if HA is present your tests are not accurate because any free N or P is bound in the algae. AND... that bound N & P is only exported when the algae is physically removed. If the algae dies off it returns the N & P back into the water column. AND... the released N & P fuels more algae. Also, if your fuge isn't growing, it isn't binding N or P and my just be a detritus trap. That will actually increase N & P levels.

Vinegar cant fuel normal GHA, correct - but a bacteria/algae from the cyano family named Lyngbya actually looks similar to GHA, but is much more brown in color, and that 'algae' can even take N out of the air to survive.

I have had a long fight with this Lyngbya less than 2 years ago, and it loves or at least spread in clean water with carbondosing.:sad2:

Im not saying u do have Lyngbya, but to spend 5 minutes thinking about it wouldnt be bad....

Best of luck to u :-)

Peder

usmc121581
04/03/2013, 05:18 PM
^ I will research anything thrown my way. I have never dealt with a peat like this ever(lucky) in this tank. So to get it after 8+ years and several long distance moves I get I now is fustrating. I am heading to google now.

Crush Coral
04/03/2013, 05:53 PM
I did not have it for 4 years. Then a plague. Mine was caused by a non-food grade garbage can I was putting RO water in.

Elliott
04/03/2013, 07:59 PM
go to home depot, pick up some grey pvc flexible matt that is used underneath when installing showers, cut it to the size of where ever you have hair algae and glue it down to block the light, leave it for a couple weeks, no more algae :)

Pederreefnerd
04/04/2013, 01:53 PM
I did not have it for 4 years. Then a plague. Mine was caused by a non-food grade garbage can I was putting RO water in.


Totally agree.

I have seen many issues i DK, were people use metalstrips to hold something over the sump. And corrosion because of the salt, makes this pollute the tank.

So take care what u use - even above water.

MHG
04/05/2013, 06:06 AM
I only get it now on frag plugs sitting in my frag rack...I guess my lawn mower blenny does not spend much time picking at them...

usmc121581
04/05/2013, 06:24 PM
Totally agree.

I have seen many issues i DK, were people use metalstrips to hold something over the sump. And corrosion because of the salt, makes this pollute the tank.

So take care what u use - even above water.

I have to take a look at somethin, your post just reminded me.

aydemir
04/05/2013, 07:12 PM
I had a bad GHA and dino outbreak in my tank a while ago, I (think) finally got rid of it after having lights out for 4 days (complete blackout, including no actinics) and I dosed 3% hydrogen peroxide 0.5ml/gallon. I didn't do any water changes for a while since I read that dinos love silicates that come in every water change, so the trates got high (10ppm). The tank is a 5.5 gallon, without corals, so I could afford to do the lights out without many consequences. Its been about 2 weeks, and I don't see a spot of GHA or any dinos, however, some diatoms :S Also, since my tank is so small I don't have any reactors, skimmers, etc. I don't even have macroalgae, considering that it hasnt shown any signs of coming back in 2 weeks I think its gone. I would recommend the peroxide dosing, and reducing your light cycle at the least if you can't do lights out, but the dosing has to be consistent, 0.5ml/gallon every day until you can't see the algae anymore. It will most likely come back if you dose until you see it dying and then stop dosing. Some params when I was dosing:
NH3, NO2 - 0ppm
NO3 - 10ppm-20ppm (hard to read)
pH - about 8

usmc121581
04/06/2013, 07:31 AM
I have decide tha where 75% of the GHA is growing is coming out. I will ge rocks from my sump to place where this huge one is and place my chalice on them. I have given up the battle in the tank and will bring it to a bucket of RO water. Should I just leave it in the bucket? I would live to reuse this massive piece of rock again but I also what to ensure there is no trace of it left before I place it back in the tank.

SUPERSTOCKRACER
04/06/2013, 07:37 AM
That's the only thin I haven't done, is lower the light period.


and get yourself 50 mexican turbo snails and some astrea snails, lower temp. down to 75 degrees. i had a huge outbreak also. mine is totally gone.
mexican turbos dont like 80 degree water. keep temp low and they will live.

usmc121581
04/06/2013, 09:34 AM
Oh yes I did get a bunch of those for another issue, but there is this one massive piece of LR they haven't been to so I am going to remove it.

GroktheCube
04/06/2013, 01:26 PM
I only have a small amount in my tank (8 weeks old, mostly green turf, a little macro, a little diatom, a little GHA), but the two Mexican red leg hermits I put in a couple days ago are definitely eating it. They seem to prefer mat, sheet, and hair algae to macro, but they don't seem discriminating beyond that. Scarlets seem to eat everything. Blue legs also seem to ear everything. They all pick it right down to bare rock/bare coraline.

I also have an un-IDed stomatella hitch hiker that seems to like it. The rock he hangs out on is virtually algae free, and he's quadrupled in size since I found him.

usmc121581
04/06/2013, 06:18 PM
So I ended up and gave in to removin this monster of a rock and after removal I am glad I did. That rock had a good amoun of GHA growing on it that I wasn't able to see. Now the rock is soaking in a bin with no light so I am able to cure it of the issue.