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View Full Version : Pygmy Cherub Angel Has Gone Into Hiding


steve888
03/30/2013, 07:17 PM
I've had a blue/green chromis and a purple firefish in my tank for the past four months. Last Saturday, I added a pygmy cherub angelfish. For the first four days, he swam around normally, ate well, nibbled on the live rock and got along well with the two other fish. I have witnessed no aggression from any of the fish except for two days ago the purple FF nipped at the angel while I was feeding them...but the angel just swam away and stayed out in the open behaving normally the rest of the night.

For the past two days, however, the angel has been hiding in the live rock and refuses to come out. Last night while I was feeding, he came out and ate a bit but then went back into the live rock and hid the rest of the night. I haven't seen the purple FF or chromis nip at him at all but I'm not in front of my tank 24/7. Basically, the angel has been in hiding for two straight days now.

The purple FF is the biggest fish in the tank at almost 3", with the chromis second at about 1.25" and the angel last at slightly less than an 1".

Does anyone have any idea what might be going on or have any suggestions as to what I should do? I'm wondering if the chromis and or FF have been beating up on the angel and he's afraid to come out now?

Should I try rearranging the live rock to break up the territories?

Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I really like the angelfish. He's a deep, rich blue color with an orange face and I'd like to keep him happy and healthy.

Thanks a lot for any advice!

Sk8r
03/30/2013, 08:31 PM
A sick fish will frequently go into hiding. Was he qt'ed? Ich would be a strong possibility if not. Don't mess with the rock: you're likely to hurt a fish.

steve888
03/30/2013, 08:38 PM
A sick fish will frequently go into hiding. Was he qt'ed? Ich would be a strong possibility if not. Don't mess with the rock: you're likely to hurt a fish.

I'm sorry to say that I did not QT him. I know this is one of the cardinal rules of fishkeeping but I have a lot of faith in my LFS and have never QT'd anything. I've purchased snails, crabs, shrimp, and fish from LFS for more than a year without any issues. The only thing that's ever died in my tank were two yellow clown gobies that jumped out.

Well, if the angel does have ich then perhaps I'm about to learn a valuable lesson in the importance of having a QT... :hmm2:

steve888
03/31/2013, 04:46 PM
So assuming Mr. Angelfish has gone on to greener pastures...err, I mean bluer seas...should I just leave him in there and let the crabs take care of him?

I haven't seen him in two days now so the only option is to start pulling live rock out but that will definitely mix up the sand and release God only knows what into the water column.

He's less than an inch in length so I'm guessing he won't cause a major spike in nitrates.

Thanks again for the help and I think I'm going to spend a little money on a QT tank... :rolleyes:

Sk8r
03/31/2013, 05:57 PM
Let the crabs and worms work. Sigh. And now you've likely got ich in that tank. Wait four weeks and keep your alkalinity spot on 8.3, and just cross your fingers. Technically I should say pull everybody to qt and treat, but if nobody else is showing signs, it's your call. Either pull all fish and treat for ich, or just hope. If anybody else gets it, no question: pull all fish to qt, treat, and you could get your new angel and treat everybody at once with hypo: angels don't like copper much. Hypo is going to take a refractometer, and an ATO for the qt tank...not a bad idea to have, at all. I also wouldn't buy another angel from that store tank.

Good idea to maintain that alk at 8.3 always. And you might add some Stress Coat for your remaining crew. If their slime coat weakens, they're vulnerable to the parasite.

steve888
04/01/2013, 09:37 AM
Let the crabs and worms work. Sigh. And now you've likely got ich in that tank. Wait four weeks and keep your alkalinity spot on 8.3, and just cross your fingers. Technically I should say pull everybody to qt and treat, but if nobody else is showing signs, it's your call. Either pull all fish and treat for ich, or just hope. If anybody else gets it, no question: pull all fish to qt, treat, and you could get your new angel and treat everybody at once with hypo: angels don't like copper much. Hypo is going to take a refractometer, and an ATO for the qt tank...not a bad idea to have, at all. I also wouldn't buy another angel from that store tank.

Good idea to maintain that alk at 8.3 always. And you might add some Stress Coat for your remaining crew. If their slime coat weakens, they're vulnerable to the parasite.

Thanks for all of the advice Sk8r. I didn't realize ich could kill this quickly. The fish appeared healthy at my LFS but I guess he must have had something when I brought him home.

He ate mysis shrimp twice, part of a nori strip, and some Rod's Food once while he was in my tank and I did do a 20% water change on Wednesday (the 5th day he was in the tank). On Thursday is when he disappeared. I wonder if the W/C could've done him in? They're supposed to be hardy fish so I doubt that was it. I've been doing 15%-20% W/C's for more than a year and it's never been an issue with any of the other fish.

Anyway, I found him last night on the sand bed and removed him fron the tank. I still have my old 14G BioCube so I should probably set that up as a QT.

My LFS is actually 24 miles away from me and I travel the extra distance because they have a very good reputation. In addition to being a retail store, they also build custom tanks for homes and offices and have a staff that goes out on the road every day to maintain them. They've been in business almost 20 years and they are highly regarded in this area.

Hard to say for sure why the fish died but I'm guessing something was wrong with him from the get go. I floated him for 20 minutes and then did a drip acclimation for 25 minutes (perhaps that wasn't long enough). He was pretty small (less than one inch) so maybe the stress of being shipped to the LFS, spending several weeks in a small tank at the LFS, and then being added to my tank was just too much for him.

Sk8r
04/01/2013, 11:21 AM
My advice ---don't acclimate. It's dangerous. I doubt that from a local store and with the bag open only 25 minutes that it was ammonia that killed him, but it's possible. Fish exhale and poo ammonium into the bag during transit, you open the bag, the c02 escapes, the ph plummets, and ammonium, which is harmless, converts to ammonia, which is lethal: the fish doesn't die at once, but a few days later, from organ damage.
Safer: set your qt salinity to match your store, then check it with a refractometer when you open the bag, and just put him right on over with no drip whatsoever.

I'm of the personal opinion that more fish have been killed by acclimation than by salinity change.

Do quarantine, however, even if you trust your store. The first two weeks of 'settling in' are the time when the fish's slime coat is likely to be compromised, and if it is, his chances of picking up a parasite are high. The 4 weeks quarantine lets him settle in, get fed, de-stress before he has to enter a community, and get treated if he has something.

A third possibility is a maddening one: some shyster collectors use dynamite or even cyanide, and ship fish that will live just long enough to get through the system alive. But not enough to survive longterm. That's why I patronize only stores and dealers which have a 'stay alive' policy, because they're going to id these despicable jerks and refuse to buy from them: they'll find out when a large number of fish are dying. Dealers that say it's your risk---never find out how many are not making it.

steve888
04/01/2013, 07:53 PM
My advice ---don't acclimate. It's dangerous. I doubt that from a local store and with the bag open only 25 minutes that it was ammonia that killed him, but it's possible. Fish exhale and poo ammonium into the bag during transit, you open the bag, the c02 escapes, the ph plummets, and ammonium, which is harmless, converts to ammonia, which is lethal: the fish doesn't die at once, but a few days later, from organ damage.
Safer: set your qt salinity to match your store, then check it with a refractometer when you open the bag, and just put him right on over with no drip whatsoever.

I'm of the personal opinion that more fish have been killed by acclimation than by salinity change.

Do quarantine, however, even if you trust your store. The first two weeks of 'settling in' are the time when the fish's slime coat is likely to be compromised, and if it is, his chances of picking up a parasite are high. The 4 weeks quarantine lets him settle in, get fed, de-stress before he has to enter a community, and get treated if he has something.

A third possibility is a maddening one: some shyster collectors use dynamite or even cyanide, and ship fish that will live just long enough to get through the system alive. But not enough to survive longterm. That's why I patronize only stores and dealers which have a 'stay alive' policy, because they're going to id these despicable jerks and refuse to buy from them: they'll find out when a large number of fish are dying. Dealers that say it's your risk---never find out how many are not making it.

Thanks again, Sk8r! Yes, I've read a little bit about this and have been trying to decide which is the best way to acclimate. I definitely use a refractometer so I'll test my LFS water and then match my salinity to theirs and stop doing the drip method. I think they told me they keep it around 1.025 but I'm not sure.

And I'm definitely going to convert my old 14G BioCube into a QT. When I got my 30G four months ago I never really did anything with it so why not put it to good use!

And, I agree...I'm hoping one day all fish we buy are captive bred so we don't have to even disturb a real ecosystem. That day will probably never happen but at least we can work towards that end.

Thanks again for providing so much useful information in this thread and with all of the stickies you've provided. I've read a number of them and have learned a great deal (although I obviously didn't pay much attention to the one on the importance of a QT)! :uhoh3: