PDA

View Full Version : why my clown pairs never lay eggs?


orangegoby
04/02/2013, 11:22 AM
they been together for about 3 years now. they r like magnate to one another.
3" female and 2" male. do they need to see some clown doctors? :hmm1:

Catchoftheday
04/02/2013, 12:12 PM
they been together for about 3 years now. they r like magnate to one another.
3" female and 2" male. do they need to see some clown doctors? :hmm1:

Are they the same breed of clowns ? for clowns to lay eggs the water must be stable and really good feeding and must feed heavy .

orangegoby
04/02/2013, 12:30 PM
yes, same $10 ocellaris tank bred. in terms of feeding, i usually feed them 4-5 times during my after work period. however, the boy was in the qt for a month copper treatment. Would it be he turn into girl during the qt ????

worm5406
04/02/2013, 02:09 PM
Take a PVC White "T" of either 2" or 3" or 4", depending on the size of the clowns. Put a section of 2" on the bottom and 2" on the top of pvc pipe, just plain pipe.

Place these together so that you can see into the bottom section of the T. and the two other sections are in line with each other.

Take the PVC and bury it a little way down into the substrate near where they like to hang out.

Set it so that you can see straight into the T section from outside the tank.

Lets see if this flat section gives them some ideas better than the tank or rock base.

Jamie1210
04/03/2013, 12:12 AM
have you observed any signs of pre-spawning behavior like cleaning the rocks?

elegance coral
04/03/2013, 04:45 AM
What are you feeding? Can you list the other inhabitants of the tank?

Paul B
04/03/2013, 05:00 AM
If you feed clowns, or any damsels correctly, you can't stop them from breeding. If you want them to spawn feed them live blackworms, fresh or frozen clams, mussels, or oysters. No flakes, pellets or processed foods.

Almost all of my fish are spawning and have been for years, even my 19 year old clowns, but that is what they get fed every day.

This is a video of them eating live worms, every fish in this video, except the copperband is spawning. There are mandarins, pipefish, cardinals and gobies.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/th_2013-03-27115558_zps12b3b802.jpg (http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2013-03-27115558_zps12b3b802.mp4)

orangegoby
04/03/2013, 08:29 AM
Take a PVC White....
thanks for the advice, but probably won't go through the trouble making my dt into a construction site again. i just took down the ugly egg crate divider few months ago when i finally finished my stocking list.

have you observed any signs of pre-spawning behavior like cleaning the rocks?
not really.

What are you feeding? Can you list the other inhabitants of the tank?
i feed them nls pellets, omega one flakes(my regal angel's favorite),
nori, fresh shrimps(mostly for the cbb). i also have 5 tangs, 4 angels, 3 wrasses. the nemo pair have their own territory, no one really able to bother them as the big mama quickly fend off any intruders.

If you feed clowns, or any damsels correctly, you can't stop them from breeding. If you want them to spawn feed them live blackworms, fresh or frozen clams, mussels, or oysters. No flakes, pellets or processed foods.....
i thought the tank bred clown should be less picky. i have no intention to raise any babies, it just occur to me seeing them quite happy together for sometime now but no sign of "sex":bigeyes:

Paul B
04/03/2013, 08:42 AM
i thought the tank bred clown should be less picky. i have no intention to raise any babies, it just occur to me seeing them quite happy together for sometime now but no sign of "sex"


That's because you feed flakes, pellets, and nori. It would be rare to have anything spawn on that. To produce eggs a fish needs much more nutrition than that. Your diet will just keep them alive, nothing more.

orangegoby
04/03/2013, 08:53 AM
i think what u said make sense. thanks Paul.
always learning something.

OrionN
04/03/2013, 09:46 AM
That's because you feed flakes, pellets, and nori. It would be rare to have anything spawn on that. To produce eggs a fish needs much more nutrition than that. Your diet will just keep them alive, nothing more.

I disagree. I feed flakes exclusively and my fish breeds like mad. I have 200+ healthy clown babies to show for it too. I do mix 4 types of flakes together and use it daily. One of my tank get his exclusively other than fish for the anemone. The fish is not getting any of the food for my carpets.

orangegoby
04/03/2013, 09:53 AM
maybe my clowns r lesbians. :love1:

TigeBell
04/03/2013, 09:59 AM
I disagree. I feed flakes exclusively and my fish breeds like mad. I have 200+ healthy clown babies to show for it too. I do mix 4 types of flakes together and use it daily. One of my tank get his exclusively other than fish for the anemone. The fish is not getting any of the food for my carpets.

I agree with OrionN here. I feed my clowns flake food and they are on their third egg layings. The third just happened last night. ;)

However, I am not breading them. :( Don't have the time to do that.

TigeBell
04/03/2013, 10:00 AM
maybe my clowns r lesbians. :love1:

LOL, the clowns would both be males still. ;)

Paul B
04/03/2013, 10:35 AM
I disagree. I feed flakes exclusively and my fish breeds like mad. I have 200+ healthy clown babies to show for it too. I do mix 4 types of flakes together and use it daily.

You can disagree, many people disagree with me on many things but it is much easier to get anything to spawn on healthy food than flakes. I did say it is rare, not impossible. How many people spawn clownfish on flakes compared to clownfish that eat a good diet of fresh food?
If you fed better you would have 400+ babies instead of 200+
But just my opinion of course. I also have many spawnings to my name over many decades including pipefish, cardinals gobies and clownfish to name a few.
But if you feel flakes are the way to go, feed flakes. :beer:

maybe my clowns r lesbians.

Could be, but then then they would adopt. :lmao:

orangegoby
04/03/2013, 11:10 AM
Could be, but then then they would adopt. :lmao:
hahaha, this cracked me up! :D

OrionN
04/03/2013, 11:22 AM
I think, for clowns, good flakes foods are better than frozen food. I think if you do a on clown fish breeders , the one that successfully raise clown use dry food for mainly dry food as the primary food.
Several years back, My Onyx was having regular patches of eggs (I only use dry food for my clowns) A friend got the eggs and raised babies. Another of my friend who owns a LFS borrows my clowns to breed them. The first three clutches was great with beautiful babies. Then deformities come for several patches, then the eggs would not hatch at all. The employees only feed the fish various frozen food, several types.
I reviewed their feeding regiments, and told them that the regiment was a poor one for clownfish, but never able to convince them that flake foods are better than frozen food for clowns. I finally took the clowns home and they have continue to produce for me ever since.
Feeding requirement for each species of fish are different, but for clowns, live food and frozen food exclusively, or even as a primary food is not enough for their nutrition.

OrionN
04/03/2013, 11:25 AM
BTW, I like to keep small breeding units of fish in my aquarium. I had Marine Beta, Royal Gramma, Cardinals, Clowns, Pigmy Angels, Mandarin, Orchid dottyback, various damsels all breed in my aquarium. My breeding clowns at this time are fed exclusively dry food.

worm5406
04/03/2013, 11:36 AM
What are you feeding them OrionN?

orangegoby
04/03/2013, 12:11 PM
.....I feed flakes exclusively and my fish breeds like mad.....I do mix 4 types of flakes together and use it daily.

OrionN
04/03/2013, 12:13 PM
I use a mixture of stuff. Let me go home to see exactly which ones.
TetraMarine saltwater flakes, Ocean Neutrition reef flakes, cyclop-ez, ON color flakes. There amy be one or two more. I change type when ever I make a new patch, depends on what I can get.

Paul B
04/03/2013, 12:32 PM
OrionN, your fish are breeding because you know what you are doing and you are an experienced aquarist. :beer:

I hardly feed my fish any commercially manufactured product. From my years of diving with them, I try to feed them what they eat in the sea, such as fresh clams, mussels, fish fry, fish eggs or live worms.

this is me
04/03/2013, 12:35 PM
My Onyx clowns have been in the tank for 4 years. They are straight from Rod B. and were babies when I got them.
Same size from the start. Same size now. No idea which is is female or male. They like to rub their bellies on things and wiggle their tail on the sand to create a mess.
I feed them PE Mysis, Hikari Mysis, Hikari spirulina brine, Spectrum pellets, and Elos spirulina pellets. Still no laying eggs or anything. But then again, do I really want them to lay? I would need to learn how to breed. lol
http://www.pbase.com/nicksreef/image/149479012/original.jpg

Paul B
04/03/2013, 01:03 PM
But then again, do I really want them to lay? I would need to learn how to breed. lol


You don't need to raise them. Fish spawn because that is what all healthy fish do, it's their normal healthy state. If they are not spawning, there is something wrong.
It's the state of health they are in in the sea..
Here is my watchman gobi with eggs but I don't raise them any more. My mandarins also spawn (as in the picture) but I ain't looking for them little suckers in a 100 gallon tank. :hmm4:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/Gobieggs026.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/IMG_2312.jpg

this is me
04/03/2013, 01:24 PM
Alright. Maybe my fish are lesbians as well.

Paul B
04/03/2013, 01:38 PM
Alright. Maybe my fish are lesbians as well.



Could be, but then all clownfish are lesbians for part or all of their life, so they are fine. :D

worm5406
04/03/2013, 01:39 PM
But once they switch they do not switch back.

this is me
04/03/2013, 01:54 PM
Actually, isn't breeding also a sign of stress. I know fluctuation in parameters especially temperature will induce spawning in many species.

orangegoby
04/03/2013, 02:48 PM
I have no intention to raise the babies either, just that I tend to think if there is nothing wrong with them, a health couple should enjoy a healthy XXX life and have some fruits of LOVE. :love2:

Paul B
04/04/2013, 04:54 AM
Actually, isn't breeding also a sign of stress. I know fluctuation in parameters especially temperature will induce spawning in many species.



It is in sea urchins and some fish , but the stress just makes them lose the eggs, not really spawn.

OrionN
04/04/2013, 05:50 AM
Actually, isn't breeding also a sign of stress. I know fluctuation in parameters especially temperature will induce spawning in many species.
For fish seasonal change in temp can induce spawn in some species but I do not think this is stress. It is clams and other sessile invertebrates spawn with stress.

worm5406
04/04/2013, 06:46 AM
I am glad we do not procreate when we are stressed.

Wait...

I am glad we procreate when we are stressed.

Wait...

Ya know forget it... either way it looks funny.

I have 4 boys and I do not need anymore.

orangegoby
04/04/2013, 07:56 AM
Four boys! i can barely handle one(he is 16 right now). it's really tricky u want to be nice like a friend, but when u become their friend, they climb up on your head and take a dump. tricky tricky.

Anyone have thoughts on my male clown was in the copper treatment for 4 weeks. i have heard if they are by themselves for a period of time, they become female. if that is true, i really have 2 females.

worm5406
04/04/2013, 08:02 AM
I thought that they only turn female when the alpha-female is removed and there are others in the brood.

Mike31154
04/04/2013, 08:47 AM
If both are females, would there not be some fighting going on? I doubt they'd be magnets to each other for very long.

Gary Majchrzak
04/04/2013, 05:54 PM
they been together for about 3 years now. they r like magnate to one another.
3" female and 2" male. do they need to see some clown doctors? :hmm1: play Barry White (and feed Piscine Energetics Mysis Shrimp)

IME you can also get them to spawn on pellet, flakes and nori but ONLY if you're an experienced aquarist with an extensive collection of Barry White

worm5406
04/04/2013, 08:29 PM
play Barry White (and feed Piscine Energetics Mysis Shrimp)

IME you can also get them to spawn on pellet, flakes and nori but ONLY if you're an experienced aquarist with an extensive collection of Barry White

I think Marvin Gaye -- Lets get it on works better.

Gary Majchrzak
04/04/2013, 09:32 PM
I think Marvin Gaye -- Lets get it on works better.I'll take your word for it!

orangegoby
04/05/2013, 05:35 AM
I am taking note.

mikelee35
04/05/2013, 11:18 AM
I feed my breeding pairs only flakes and pellets, get good results, but if my tank temp drops below 81 for any extended period of time they stop laying, and I don't think 4 weeks is long enough to induce sex change,
Just my 2 cent

Mike

MD Ocean Girl
04/06/2013, 06:02 AM
My pair of breeding ocellaris clowns are mostly fed a mixture of spectrum pellets and formula 2 pellets, once a day. 1-2 times a week, the tank is fed a mixture of mysis, cyclo-peeze, and ova. The tank fluctuates between 77-80 degrees. They breed like clockwork every 10 days or so, no matter how much or how little I feed, or what I feed. Sometimes they've only gotten pellets for weeks, and they still keep laying eggs. They were together about 2 years before they started breeding, and the female was 2-3 years old before she got paired up with her boyfriend. I think it just takes some fish longer to mature.

They started laying right before Christmas, so maybe Christmas music got them in the mood????? :lol:

elegance coral
04/10/2013, 07:11 AM
I have to side with Paul on this one.:eek1:


live food and frozen food exclusively, or even as a primary food is not enough for their nutrition.

If this were true, they would be extinct. All they get in the wild is live, or recently dead food. They get no flakes or pellets, yet wild fish are typically in much better shape than captive fish. It is a struggle to get our fish to be as healthy and colorful as those in the wild.

Most of the big clown breeders feed pellets. All of the wild fish are raised on live foods. With 90% of our clowns, one glance is all that's needed to determine if it was captive bred, or wild caught. Wild fish are typically thick, muscular, and perfect with no deformities. Captive bred fish are typically thin, pale, and look like they grew up around three mile island. IMHO, and many others, diet has a great deal to do with this.

I believe the manufacturers of dry foods have come a long way over the years, but I still don't believe their products come close to live/frozen foods.

IME, you can feed a fish flakes and pellets, and have a nice looking fish. You can change that fishes diet over to varied live/frozen foods and have a spectacular fish.

My clarkii often lays eggs faster than they can hatch. At times she'll have a clutch of eggs where half is orange, and the other half has silver eyes. I contribute her health and the number of eggs she produces to her upbringing and diet. She was wild caught and eats frozen caviar, mysis, cyclops, table shrimp, and live pods.

IMHO, there is simply no comparison between a fish that's fed dry prepared foods, and one that's fed a varied diet of live or frozen foods.

Peace
EC

Paul B
04/10/2013, 07:47 AM
Elegance coral. Wow I totally agree with your post and I don't agree with much.
In my 40+ years of diving I know I can tell a wild fish from a captive fish fed on dry foods. Not only by the fishes outward appearance but also by their actions. Wild fish are more alert and more interested in their surroundings, they are also more beligerant.

OrionN
04/10/2013, 07:59 AM
I think clownfish in the wild are omnivore. They eat everything include algae. The frozen and live food we can get for our aquariums is but a pitiful comparison to what is available to them in the wild (at least in my case. It is likely to be different with Paul since living by the water, he has much better option.) That is why exclusive frozen and live food for clowns in our care is not enough. A lot more variety go into dry food, especially like me when I use multiple dry foods mix together. I think this is why it is adequate for breeding purposes.
I just disagree with Paul that feeding dry food to clowns just "barely keeping them alive"

worm5406
04/10/2013, 08:03 AM
Yes those living in coastal areas would have a better selection than others. Espc those living in Coastal Texas.

OrionN
04/10/2013, 09:04 AM
I wish each day have 34 hrs insrtead of 24. Then I can spend hrs hunting for things. I go to the CC Bay and get snails for my carpets and oysters for my CBB. My clowns doing great with just dry food so that is all they get.

I used to live right on the coast but not anymore. Texas just taxed me right out of my house. I just don't want to pay that mortgage that never end. 3.5% yearly for a house on the water is a lot of money. But then we don't have a state income tax here in Texas

orangegoby
04/10/2013, 11:08 AM
i believe fresh food should be the ideal choice for all fishes. i also believe that the dry food should also do a good job especially for the man-bred fishes.

oh, talking about taxes, we pay minimum 25% and up for income tax, 13% sales tax + all other taxes u can think of. the good thing is we do get free health care here. and is paid by the heavy taxing. i am currently working on lobbying the Parliament to provide free health care for us reefer's marine fish. but they said they would had to raise more tax. :furious:

D-Nak
04/10/2013, 11:43 AM
To add a bit of perspective with regards to the wild versus captive raised fish, there is obviously a natural culling process that takes place with wild caught fish, so we only see decent specimens. Sick fish would probably die before reaching the LFS, and we've all seen quite a few dying wild caught fish at the LFS, typically due to mistreatment in the supply chain. I've seen A LOT of deformed tank bred (TB) fish lately, and I attribute this to the fact that breeders may not be actively culling as they should be. Granted, this is seen mostly with the "exotic" clowns where economics come into play.

In terms of behavior between the two, environmental factors come into play. Wild fish should be more active and alert given their need to do so to survive, versus the couch potato captive TB fish that are used to being fed. Granted, the largest of the babies tend to fare better anyway.

I believe that a mix of frozen, dry, live and fresh food is the best way to feed any fish. For broodstock in particular, the diet cannot be too high in fat or this will affect the female's ability to produce viable eggs, since a swollen liver can affect the development of the ovaries. For example, a fish cannot be fed exclusively fresh squid or it will quickly become fat. It will also benefit from the addition of roughage that can be found in chiton and cellulose, which don't add much in terms of nutrition, but aids in digestion (just like in humans with fiber). So, the short story to get your fish to breed is to feed a HIGH QUALITY, varied diet.

orangegoby
04/10/2013, 11:55 AM
very good point D-nak! a mixed diet, hopefully to produce a better balance.

Paul B
04/10/2013, 12:08 PM
I just disagree with Paul that feeding dry food to clowns just "barely keeping them alive"


OK, but stop yelling at me. Almost everyone disagrees with me, and that's fine. (but your clownfish agree with me) :beer:

OrionN
04/10/2013, 12:15 PM
.... So, the short story to get your fish to breed is to feed a HIGH QUALITY, varied diet.

I totally agree with this statement by D-Nak

Paul,
There I just wishper to you and yell at D-Nak

orangegoby
04/10/2013, 12:23 PM
OK, on a serious note, i suspect one other reason could be too much distractions (i got too many aggressive fishes in the tank). I remember pros always suggest isolating a breeding pair in a separate tank and giving them some goodies without other distractions.

Paul B
04/10/2013, 12:24 PM
Dam, yelling again, you scared my fish.