Green Chromis - Positive Disease ID

[snake42490]

Okay, I have about had it. I have ordered Green Chromis from three different supplies and the same outcome has happened to all three batches of fish. They all come in and look great minus the fact they are breathing very fast. They eat great then on day three they start getting these open wounds on them. Then the next day they are dead. This is ridiculous that this is happening, the one place refuses to give me a refund because the fish were "healthy and eating when they left"

I use clean equipment and separate tanks for all of my QT stuff. I have tried using tank water for QT. I have tried using fresh water thinking that maybe there is something in my DT. I have thought it was ammonia, but I use that instant cycle stuff and have used prime. This last batch I am using copper with and it doesn't seem like it's doing anything... Is there something going on with green chromis in the industry right now?


https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43908624/2013-04-07%2023.16.04.jpg
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43908624/2013-04-07%2023.17.18.jpg

Order of death- Rapid Breathing, along with flushing of gills. Loss of appetite, red sore death.


***If you do know what this is, a solution would be amazing and I would appreciate it***

[HumbleFish]

Uronema marinum. Very common with chromis. Suggested treatment is copper or Chloroquine Phosphate. But this is one parasite that is very hard to beat, no matter what you do.

[snake42490]

Okay any idea to determine if this is in my DT. I really hope that it isn't. Do some fish build up an immunity to this parasite and not show any symptoms? Or would they have died by now? They have been in the tank for 3 months and nothing has died.


Copper doesn't seem to be doing the trick, it is still spreading and killing them. I think I am going to switch to CP after taking copper out and see if I can't stop this. This disease is nasty.

[MrTuskfish]

Chromis have been dying like flies lately. Sometime uronema is the cause, sometimes not. I would avoid chromis completely as long as this problem exists. A few years ago, you never heard of problem with chromis (except for their tendency to kill each other); now chromis deaths are an everyday event on this forum. Until someone figures out what's going on with chromis; I would never put any in my DTs. You just have no way of tagging belong. FWIW: I think by the time you can diagnose uronema, its usually a lost cause.

[snake42490]

I have personally gone through 21 chromis, I got 7 each time. It's the same story with all of them. Whatever it is seems centralized to the chromis . I know that seems weird, but the tang that was in the same tank as the chromis is doing great...

Mr. Tuskfish, do you think I should be worried about the tang that was in with the chromis? Should I do any extra treatment to make sure its okay from whatever this was? The tang was in the tank with the first group of chromis. This is now 15 days ago.. The tang hasn't shown any signs or issues.

[MrTuskfish]

I don't know enough about uronema to comment on how contagious it is. From what I remember, it generally preys primarily on weakened fish---but so do all parasites. FWIW, I can't remember any of the uronema /chromis threads that weakened other fish. But I sure wouldn't keep any fish in the same tank with infected fish.

[Dmorty217]

Same thing happened to me 6 months ago I had 25 chromis to start with and have 11 now and have had for well going on 6 months now. I should of done more research before buying them, got them to school in my tank then I read about people loosing them left and tight for no real reason. I would just stop buying them altogether if it were me

[snake42490]

Okay, I have been doing some research. It seems copper is not the drug of choice uronema and has very bad track record of treating it.

Here is the study I found, I could use some help with dosing.

The best way to use this chemical for Brooklynella hostilis and Uronema marinum is as a formalin dip followed by a long term formalin bath (see environmental treatments).
To use it as a short dip in seawater, make up a bath in seawater at 200 to 250ppm for 1 hour. The dip component of this treatment regime should be carried out on days 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 & 11 after each dip the fish should be returned to a quarantine tank to which formalin has been added (see below)
For the long term long term bath component of this treatment, add 25ppm of formalin to your quarantine tank (it’s toxic to some invertebrates and algae, including most coralline algae species, so cannot be used in a reef situation after 10 days.
Remember liquid formalin (which is how you will get it from the chemists) is 37 to 40% formaldehyde and you want 25ppm so you need to add 0.0625ml formalin per litre rather than 0.02ml to get the correct dose.
NB formalin dips are a very stressful process and are not advised for very delicate or very ill fish.
As this chemical is very toxic I would recommend that appropriate protective clothing is worn such as gloves and safety glasses and use it in a well ventilated place.



The study says I need to do formalin dip at 200-250 ppm for 1 hour followed by 25 ppm

I have 35% Formalin, what is my dosage going to be per gallon to get to 200 or 250 ppm?
What will the dosage be for 25 ppm per gallon?

This is what I did, want to double check my work.

25 ppm/gallon- 0.0625ml times 3.79 so it would be .24 ml / gallon ???

then to get 200 it would be - 1.92 ml/ gallon or .5 ml/ liter

[HumbleFish]

If what you have is 35% formaldehyde, that is close enough to Formalin-MS which contains 37%. So, I would follow their dosing & dipping instructions found here (http://www.fishvet.com/Formalin-MS.htm).

[snake42490]

yea, that's the stuff I have, but I'm wanting to know what ppm that comes out to be. from what I have read 200 ppm needs to be achieved before it kills this parasite

[sleepydoc]

Interesting - I just spoke to one of the owners of my LFS last week about chromises (?) and he said they have had horrible survival rates - only about 25-50% even making it out of QT to their sale tanks so they have quit ordering them. Kind of confirms that there is some issue with chromises.

[DrPat]

someone posted that there has been a brooklynella out break in chromis world wide from distributors

[snake42490]

hhmm, could these deaths and symptoms go along with brook?

[triggreef]

Nope very different. I recently (6 wks or so) tried 3 chromis with your results, red sore death within 2 or 3 days. Other fish weren't affected either. Although the other fish that were in with them were wrasses.

Brook is more like velvet.

[triggreef]

I'll add, I never heard of uronema before that, thought it was some bacterial infection and treated with several meds that obviously did not work.

[snake42490]

I think cause I had so many chromis in with that tang that it must have infested the water. The has this red all over his tail. I read a study that said 200 ppm of formalin will get rid of this... I guess I will keep you guys posted if this really does the trick. I guess the key is to treat it and put it back in clean water to allow any dead parasites to fall off then put it back in a tank with 25 ppm formalin.. It sounds like a high dosage so... I'm currently treating now. I will post results!

[snake42490]

Just finished the 200 ppm formalin dip on the fish. I did .5 ml / liter for an hour for a total concentration of roughly 200 ppm. The study said anywhere from 200-250 would be okay. I had two air stones going in the water the whole time to help oxygenate the water. The fish did was definitely stressing by the end. About fifteen minutes into the dip I literally watched that zit looking thing on my tang burst open. It had some nasty stuff in it, then it bled for about a minute and stopped. I put the tang in a clean tank and put some tea tree oil and stress coat in the tank. I figured that will help heal it and might prevent any bacteria from infecting it. When I took the tang out of the formalin it was on it's side for about five minutes before it held itself up on it's own. I think it might have been from lack of oxygen, but could be wrong! Anyway, he has perked up and is swimming around. His vertical lines that were in my other thread went away after doing the dip. Anyway, I hope now he just has a little wound that can heal on it's own and all will be better... **fingers crossed*

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/43908624/2013-04-10%2001.20.18.jpg

[DrPat]

wow snake sounds like you got your hands full. THe chromis looks like uronema to me from the photo . I hope the tang is doing well. Formalin is contraindicated for use with open wounds.[not sure if you are aware about that] Have you considered using cp?

[snake42490]

Yup I know formalin isn't good for open wounds! I was pretty sure this was caused from the parasite and at the time going in it appeared to be a cyst. The fish looks so much better today though. Breathing has slowed down and the wound doesn't look as red. I'm hoping the formalin did the trick in that high concentration.


I'm going to try and work on the chromis tonight in their own tank using the fomalin, but I think I will need to try a lesser dose. They are stressed enough as is and I just have a feeling they won't pull through an hour in 200 ppm formalin.

[DrPat]

glad to hear he is doing better good luck tonight sounds like your gaining groud.

[snake42490]

Well the red wound is definitely healing without issues. The tang started to eat yesterday. As of today there is something new though... I'm going to try and get a picture, but it looks like there is a black worm bulging under his skin. Right before the tail fin. The meaty part that the caudal fin attaches to. I think it's called the peduncle? Anyway, there is this mass under the skin that is black and raised. Not a dot, but rather elongated. The skin on the outside does not appear to be irritated yet. The reason I can tell the shape is from shining a flashlight through it.

Do you guys have any idea what this might be? There is only 1 of these on the fish that is "visible". I think I'm going to do a second round of prazi tonight. I will be open to opinion though!

[snake42490]

Okay I know its hard to tell, but see if you guys have any idea what this might be. I wish I could say my eyes are playing tricks on me, I watch my fish very close so whenever something new comes up I notice it..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43908624/2013-04-12%2000.56.00.mp4

[DrPat]

Okay I know its hard to tell, but see if you guys have any idea what this might be. I wish I could say my eyes are playing tricks on me, I watch my fish very close so whenever something new comes up I notice it..

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/43908624/2013-04-12%2000.56.00.mp4

Hi its hard to see with any clarity. and that may be a good thing since its so small. He looks to be adapting well.I would feed him 5- 6 times a day and feed nori rapped around a pvc 1 inch union with a rubber band .I think he will heal with good nutrition.

[snake42490]

It is definitely small. Yeah, he is adapting well and being a very aggressive feeder. I'll definitely do that with the nori! I don't think this is a healing thing though. There is something physically under his skin. There is a mass that is bulging out. Do you think it could be a worm or what exactly?