BB systems require water changes more often

[brad65ford]

Well its my belief this statement is true, but how do we change that? I'm assuming it has to do with the lack of denitrification (lack of sand). Its been debated that the live rock (if set up properly) can handle the nitrate and there is no need for sand. Well in my case it seems as though I need to water change at least twice a week 10-12 percent of the volume to keep the corals saying health looking. This is with only 2 fish with minimal feedings.

Anybody have a solution, possible added a Denitrator or a RSB to thier BB systems with great results?

[ridetheducati]

If you believe that, then continue to do weekly water changes. Increase your export mechanisms, such as cleaning the skimmer more often, get a better skimmer, feed less, culture macroalgae, nitrate reactor, carbon dose, to name a few methods.

[brad65ford]

I don't mind more water changes though it tedious but I'm more worried about alk burning with to much water changes.

The Nitrate reactor and carbon dosing I have never done so far.

[echopiece]

Do you have a fuge section in your sump? I run BB display and have chaeto and about 3" of sand in my fuge compartment. 0 nitrates with salifert. I have been doing a 10% water change every two weeks. I found more frequent water changes and my Alk was staying too high as well - using Reef Crystals. What are your nitrates at right now?

That being said, looking back at your previous pictures it appears your tank is looking better than mine! :)

[brad65ford]

Do you have a fuge section in your sump? I run BB display and have chaeto and about 3" of sand in my fuge compartment. 0 nitrates with salifert. I have been doing a 10% water change every two weeks. I found more frequent water changes and my Alk was staying too high as well - using Reef Crystals. What are your nitrates at right now?

That being said, looking back at your previous pictures it appears your tank is looking better than mine! :)

LOL, to sat the least its just odd running a bb system, you get this feeling you need to be on it. Right now I have no sump just a 40g breeder, no sand and just a skimmer and live rocks.

[reefgeezer]

BB or not, IMO, water changes are not for export or dilution of nutrients anymore. There are just too many more effective methods to remove N & P. Personally, I prefer a big skimmer, carbon dosing, and GFO. Water changes are now more to replace minor trace elements and to dilute other less desirable elements that might otherwise build-up.

[epicurus84]

I believe this to be rubbish.

Why? Because most European systems use a very very shallow sand bed. This amount of sand will barrely influence the aquariums balance. And they also continue to have good results.

If you believe you need sand you can setup a RDSB to export nutrients.

I think that currently the lack of life rock in most aquariums is the "problem".

[biggles]

It's strange that you're having nitrate issues with only 2 fish fed sparingly Brad. How much rock have you got in the tank, i'd guess dry rock might take a bit longer to build up bacteria levels but LR or dry it should easily handle 2 fish i would think if you had 40-50lbs in the system.
If you plan on running some type of mechanical nitrate reduction system in your new 65gal you could possibly purchase it now if it was able to be run on your sump-less system. How high are the nitrates getting before you see the corals reacting negatively.

[brad65ford]

No dry rock, I started months ago with cured rock. Right now I have a good bit of coralline algae growing on the rocks and on the glass/power heads. I'm not 100 percent sure I have a nitrate problem since i can not see the colors on the RS tests since I'm shade blind and those shades of colors I just can't make out. I'm thinking I have about 40lb's or LR. My issues are only a few corals that once did well and now are not doing with.
Here are the list of corals that are thriving: Milli's, Green Slimmer, Monti's (digit, encrusting (undata, purple haze, sunset,blue rim, caps),Pocillopora, Stylophora all my birds nest, table.
Here is my list of corals that are not doing well: Hammers, acans, torts, some different types of zoas.

Really I guess I shouldn't complain since it could be much worse. Just want all corals to be thriving. I also don't know if my lighting intensity and or color spectrum are ideal as well. That's one thing good and bad about adjustable leds, you can change stuff ;)

[oscar.millan]

I find the opposite to be true. My BB tank gets away with less water changes in part because I'm able to siphon out 99% of the detritus at every water change. I do a 10% weekly and it's doing great.

Perhaps you're going through a mini cycle? I would also check phosphates.

Good luck, I hope you track down the source of the problem.

[elegance coral]

No dry rock, I started months ago with cured rock. Right now I have a good bit of coralline algae growing on the rocks and on the glass/power heads. I'm not 100 percent sure I have a nitrate problem since i can not see the colors on the RS tests since I'm shade blind and those shades of colors I just can't make out. I'm thinking I have about 40lb's or LR. My issues are only a few corals that once did well and now are not doing with.
Here are the list of corals that are thriving: Milli's, Green Slimmer, Monti's (digit, encrusting (undata, purple haze, sunset,blue rim, caps),Pocillopora, Stylophora all my birds nest, table.
Here is my list of corals that are not doing well: Hammers, acans, torts, some different types of zoas.

Really I guess I shouldn't complain since it could be much worse. Just want all corals to be thriving. I also don't know if my lighting intensity and or color spectrum are ideal as well. That's one thing good and bad about adjustable leds, you can change stuff ;)

I don't think you have a nitrate problem at all. Try feeding a tad bit more. All your corals will probably improve.

HTH
Peace
EC

[brad65ford]

Thanks guys for all your help, its very odd since I do agree with most of you about nitrate and p04 isn't my issue. I'm now at the concussion to try and lower both the intensity of the Radion and Maxspect also going to up the K to 16-20 ish running the peck hours instead of 12-14k. I've been pounding my corals with almost 100 percent output on both the Radion and Maxspect running the peck hours. Amazingly there most of the sps's really love the intensity and seem to even want more but i'm wondering if other don't. Hopefully i'm not going backwards but time will tell. Not sure how long it will take to see effects of the lowered intensity and also different k ratio's but it sure will be interesting. One thing is for sure, trying to have multiple types of corals could drive someone mad. Almost at the point where I should really just stick with what grows well and be helping with that. I guess part of the hobby for some (me included) would be knowing what you want and having a hard time achieving it.

[biggles]

If i had say 75% of my SPS looking great i would swap out the others and try new corals over time rather than risk upsetting the majority to chase colors on a few. It's always been my experience that not everything we try to keep will reward us with spectacular colors despite being healthy and growing well. I have a Sarmentosa in the tank now that has lost it's red tips and stays green all over no matter where i place it. If it stays a green blob i will eventually donate it to my LFS rather than stress about it when most corals are powering along.
I meant to say that green stag in your avvy makes me drool..... :)

[brad65ford]

thanks biggles, truer words we never spoken I should be happy with what i have but my hyper-poplar brain doesn't want to settle. I've already brought the light intensity down also increased the K some as well.

The green slimmer is mostly over my maxspect mazarra p fixture. I've always loved the color output of the Maxspect versus the Radion, but the Radion is pretty damn powerful.

[brad65ford]

Well i guess its safe to say these led's can fool you how powerful they are. Its only been 4 days and after backing down the lighting intensity and i'm already seeing colors back. I'm ok with slower growth and better colors at this point. Only thing that really sucks is not being about to take as good of photos any more.

[codyreed29]

I run a fuge macros skimmer mass flow carbon gfo and My display is epoxy and lrage grain sand which is starting to look like liverock and adds a lot of surface area which is like having more liverock. So If i have 30 lbs for 30 gallons of water pls all that surface area. It does seem like I need to change the water more and I have a dsp and mud sandbed but My system is young I'm doing 30percent 3 weeks.