Dumb Q about starting tank with established rock and sand.

[OceanicThunder]

I'm planning on buying a used setup from a guy on Craigslist. The tank had been set up a while, it was well-established when he took it down. The rock and sand he kept in saltwater to preserve all the nitrifying bacteria and other life. My question is, since they already have established colonies of these bacteria, would the tank still cycle in the traditional way if I add them to the tank with new water? I realize this is probably a dumb question to ask here, especially from one who has kept a saltwater tank before, but I'm just not sure why the tank would start going through a cycle to build up these bacteria when they're already present -- why would there be a build up of ammonia in the first place? I realize adding live rock alone initiates a cycle, but if it's from an established tank I was a bit unsure if it would still have the same effect. Then again, isn't all live rock, by definition, established? I still don't think I would be able to add fish right away.

Thanks lots,
Jesse

[gone fishin]

If everything has been kept well I would think a mini cycle may show up from moving the rock and sand. Once set up I would check the chemistry for a couple days and put some ammonia in say about 3ppm. within 24 hours it should be gone if the tank is cycled. Just my 2cents

On a side note look the rock over well. If it has been kept alive you will inherit the bad as well as the good.

[mikem101]

IMO you would still need to cycle the tank the same way for the reason you named i think you answered you own question lol. the bacteria is present in the rock and in the sand but not in the water that you will be adding to the tank thus the cycle. To get the water Parameters right. So IMO it would be just like you going to a LFS and buying live rock to put in a new tank would still need to cycle it.

[Deep Reef]

I think i would buy new sand, use the rock and expect a cycle before CUC is added.

[whiteshark]

Its not a dumb question.

IMO, if the rock was just sitting in water with no heater, light, or circulation there will be some die off. This die off will spur a cycle. The cycle, though, should not be too big or last to long. I'd just set up the tank, let it run a few days, then test all your levels. If you have ammonia, let it cycle (which shouldn't take long). If not, add some ammonia source, whether it be pure ammonia or a bit of fish food, and see how long the system takes to get rid of it. If it takes the ammonia down to 0 within 12 hours you're good to go.

I agree with the above about ditching the sand.

[gone fishin]

IMO you would still need to cycle the tank the same way for the reason you named i think you answered you own question lol. the bacteria is present in the rock and in the sand but not in the water that you will be adding to the tank thus the cycle. To get the water Parameters right. So IMO it would be just like you going to a LFS and buying live rock to put in a new tank would still need to cycle it.

Actually very little bacteria is present in the water column. The vast majority is on the LR and the substrate. After thinking about it I would probably skip the old sand and go with new sand. with the live rock it would not take long for the sand to come to life.

[OceanicThunder]

Thanks for the replies :thumbsup:

Also, I had a few questions about equipment. I'm planning in making this a reef tank. The guy who had it also had it set up as a reef tank. The lightning is reef-capable, and he's got a good skimmer, etc. But he doesn't have a UV sterilizer, calcium reactor, or other reactors. I hear of people with reef tanks mention these a lot, so do you think I would need to buy them as well? I would mostly be keeping hardier species of coral, but I might try to keep a few more sensitive ones as well, as well as some more sensitive inverts. Would you recommend having these? Would it be much trouble to just add them into the sump? I ask this because I didn't use a sump in my last tank. Also, what about additives? I see them a lot, but I've heard people saying that most novice reef aquarists keeping hardier corals don't need to bother with them. Lastly, for powerheads, I've heard that about 10x the tank volume should be the total flow rate, versus a 4-5x flow rate for the return pump on the sump. So since it's a 55gallon tank, the total flow rate of all my powerheads combined should be about 550 gph, and about 220-275 gph for the pump?

Thanks again.

[mikem101]

your flow rate for softies and lps should be 20-25x even more and for sps 30(on the low end) up to 45X.

[OceanicThunder]

your flow rate for softies and lps should be 20-25x even more and for sps 30(on the low end) up to 45X.

So two powerheads, a bit over 1000gph each, would likely be sufficient? That would be a little over 40x. Would it be better to have one with more flow than the other, or both the same flow rate? Should they be placed far enough apart so the areas in between have lower flow, or placed so that the flow throughout is more constant? I know certain corals need lower flow than others.

[tommyhrs]

I would suggest going to the (new to the hobby) section and reading the stickies there. New or not there's a lot of good info there.... will answer most all of your questions.

[mikem101]

I agree with tommy a ton of good info! but to answer your questions theres not really a right and wrong way? best thing you can have is a wavemaker such as the WP40 and MP10 that have a reef stream which sends water every which way in your tank in a random pattern. with 2 power heads I would set them on opposite sides one in the front and one in the back pointing diagonal kinda at eachother but everyone has their own preferences.

[nynick]

Moving substrate is a recipe for disaster. In theory there are lot of ways that will work, In reality there are lots of things that can go wrong. It is full of life and the moment you start moving things around it starts to die. It is also full of dirt and every way you have to get this out involves doing serious damage to micro organisms. If you have no livestock you can reuse but expect a major die off and cycle that could start to take out life on your liverock.


The quick and easy way. Buy new substrate and have it cleaned and ready at the day of the move. Keep all livestock in a heated bin with a power-head. Keep all LR fully submerged and also with good circulation. Keep at least 50% of the old water, more is better. You should have very little problems this way. Remember that established LR should be treated as livestock and acclimate it properly.

[Sk8r]

I'd go with new sand, but the old rock. It's hard to wash 'used' sand for one basic reason: you run out of salt water before you run out of crud, and using tapwater to wash the sand kills most of the bacteria and renders it a real mess with dead stuff on it.

So take the rock, have the sand ready, as above, and prepare for a short cycle, usually about 5 days, if everything is good...start by putting the inverts in, even corals in a pinch, and if they don't go belly-up in 24 hours, you can addd ONE of the fish. Again, wait, test, and if you're still good, you can add another. Treat the fish tank as a qt tank (see the sticky) in which you change that floss if it even hints of being stained, keep their salinity bang-on, and make sure you have a jump-shield.