buying used, how to not screw up.

[PubFiction]

OK my wife has been wanting a saltwater tank and we were watching Craigslist, I figured we would come across something that someone was getting rid of. Everyone seems to always wish they went bigger and she wants one that is very visual so we set out in the 125 gallon plus range looking for a 6 footer.

Well one that is complete and up and running has come up locally, it almost unfortunately has fish, corals and so on already in it.

The first thing I want to know is what to look for as far as problems. Mainly I don't want to buy something that is infested with parasites or some invasive hard to remove species like aptasia and then have to tear it all down soon after I find out. Is there any good ways to check for this?

This one turns out to be 150 gallons, the place is about 25 minutes away. How concerned do I need to be about transporting the fish, corals and all? I can keep the van warm but how much error is their in temps before you kill everything?

Are there any other warning items to pay attention too. We do not own a saltwater tank but have been reading up on it. So buying one that is already stocked will be hitting the ground running.

[kheebl]

What I would do is take all of the livestock directly to a lfs and sell everything. If you want to make sure you don't get any undesirable hitchhikers I would acid wash the rock and clean the sand really good, or just throw sand away and buy new. You should really look for a setup with no livestock or one that you piece together.

[GTboosted]

Trying to keep livestock alive sounds like a big pain if its your first tank. Even experienced reefers lose their own corals during moves. I would skip that one.

[Reeferz412]

I agree, it is a huge pain unless you have someone to house the corals and fish for a while or another tank to do so as you set this one up and inspect it for any flaws. Got any buddies willing to look after them while you set the tank up?

[r-balljunkie]

If its a well ran, established aquarium, consider yourself lucky in shaving off tons of time in establishing a saltwater aquarium. You need to get a running list of what’s included, i.e. circ. pumps lights, tank, fuge, return pump, controller, skimmer etc and what ever else he is throwing in. Do up a spreadsheet and see if it’s a good value. Some things you'll want to keep, some things you will want to sell.

When I go look at a tank, I check for the manufacturer, integrity of the seals, look for repair work, leaks, chips excessive scratches etc. If a red flag go's up, feel free to walk away. Patience is the name of the game in finding a used setup.

Also check the integrity of the stand. Does it look well constructed? Is it something your wife can live with? These aren't readily changed out once setup.
I highly recommend you make friends with someone on your local board that can come with you to assess the tank and give you a second opinion and to look at the condition of the livestock and if its something you can care for as a beginner. Reefers are usually a friendly lot. If the fish or corals (SPS) are something you cannot take care of, look at your local board to either sell or trade for something you can use.

Logistics

gonna need a full size pick up truck, loads of buckets, and a large brute trashcan. i wouldn’t try it in a SUV, only a truck. You need to prepare the area in your house, get it ready to place the stand, and then the tank immediately.

After you empty the tank completely at the sellers house (never ever move a tank with anything in it), load it on the truck, along with the stand and live rock/livestock and away you go.

if its a short trip, you can forgo aerators etc.

Once back at your house, make sure to have a good plan of attack. No need to rush but do get the fish on aeration once you unload everything. I suggest using half the original water, half new water. Always have 15-20 gallons more than you need, just in case. I usually give the sand a rinse with a garden hose, knock out the muck, but still keep some beneficial bacteria intact and reuse it. Some will argue with me, but I’ve done it this way half a dozen times, with great success.

Onto the tank and sump, a good rinsing, then onto the stand. You can start the replumbing at this point. get the sand back into the tank, then start filling and aquacaping. Don’t worry about getting it perfect. you'll have time later on to go back and tweak. Once filled, let it run until it clears out a bit…don’t worry if its not crystal clear whereas this will often take weeks to accomplish. At this point, add your fish and corals.

If the rock looks like it has pests, i.e. aptasia, you have several options. You could set all the rock out in the sun for a few days...that will kill them. This will give you tremendous die off, so you need to be careful about adding this back into your tank. Figure on adding a couple of weeks to the process, as you need to run the live rock in a tub with a skimmer and get the levels back down with several water changes over the course of a couple of weeks. you could give them an acid bath...never done this myself but see folks doing this online.


keep an eye on levels the first month and you should be good to go.

[567234ta]

Probably a good idea to educate yourself on what a good healthy tank looks like, and what types of algae or parasites you don't want to deal with.

Read the forum a lot, you will learn a lot fast but probably not fast enough.

you will need a source of ro/di water or pre-mixed salt water for water changes, a refractometer, testing kits, hopefully a lot of what you'll need will come with the tank.

I really do think since you are new to it that you buy a tank and stand and start from scratch. To hit the ground running as you say is a setup for disaster without the proper knowledge of keeping a saltwater tank.

[whiteshark]

Buying all the equipment piece by piece, researching each individual item, assembling it all, customizing your sump and plumbing, understanding how it all works in harmony to produce a stable, low nutrient environment, watching your chemical parameters through the cycle, building stands and hoods and other things; these are, for me, the most fun parts of this hobby. Once it's all set up it is nice to look at, but a considerable portion of the fun is gone. Though you can always tinker, tweak, and add in this hobby. It also requires considerable attention and there is quite a bit of routine maintenance that needs to be done so it stays interesting for me constantly.

Aside from being fun, though, I think setting it all up from scratch is necessary to give yourself the best chance to succeed. If there is a problem with something you bought that's already set up, you'll have a much harder time solving than if you put it all together yourself. I believe starting from scratch forces you to obtain a vast amount of necessary knowledge that you could otherwise miss buying pre-set up. While initially it might save some time and effort, I think in the long run it's generally a bad idea for a first tank to be one that's already established. Might sound odd but it's what I think. Also, setting it all up yourself allows you to fine tune the system to house exactly the species of fish and/or corals you might want.

[eyesinthedrk]

i agree with whiteshark. setting it up is the best way to understand it from top to bottom.

have you tried to find and join your local reef club? better deals on better equipment. plus local help and knowledge.

[PubFiction]

I live in the lansing MI area, I don't know if we have a local reef society, this town often lacks much of anything. If you know of one let me know.

Also how long is exactly a not to long ride, as I mentioned its about a 25 minute drive.

I definitely agree that setting up one from the ground up is better but its seems more and more I look around people want to dump whole systems. And buying parts will take time to fit together used, and a lot of time because stuff for bigger tanks doesn't come up that often. I would say state wide there is probably only about 100 tanks in the larger sizes on CL at any given time with very few having an acceptable stand etc... And I understand that, it makes sense when people want out they want to sell it all at once, having sold larger items on CL I sympathize with that people on CL are idiots and it takes for ever to move things and tons of communication with people who don't even read your post and try to trade you useless junk not to mention all the spam. Parting out a whole tank would probably take a year lol unless everything was a fire sale. That's why it seems most listings are for whole setups.

The guy who is selling it has a lot of buckets and everything. Eventually I would probably swap some things out, like switch to LEDs as CFL lights need replacing etc...

[Brandon.Helvie]

Speaking from personal experience, as I was the craigslist guy for almost a year, I became more aware of what to look out for in a negative light than falling for those great deals, or at least they seem to be great deals. There are systems out there that are well put together and done correctly and people change their minds and want to move out of the hobby. Unfortunately, more often than not they've , the seller, encountered something they dont know how to correct or dont want to take the time to make the correction and dump the system. I'm not saying that you cant find one out there that will meet your needs, just be very cautious. Even a small set up may cost into the thousands of dollars, someone unloading a similar system for a couple hundred makes me skeptical.

The research part of it is the best! Also, gives you time to think about and change the system to your needs. I originally bought one and set it up only to find out water changed on the first floor caused huge messes and an angry wife. Broke down and started all over. Don't rush it, take your time and think it through!

[eyesinthedrk]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=536

there are three clubs in Michigan, not sure whats close or isn't

[seuadr]

I live in the lansing MI area, I don't know if we have a local reef society, this town often lacks much of anything. If you know of one let me know.

http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/new-hobby/

i'm just south of lansing. I'm not sure what you mean by lacking. preusses is an excellent LFS, and grand rapids and detroit are both fairly close with other very highly rated LFS. I haven't got any salt water tanks yet, but from discussion on that board and the number of frag swaps i see popping up i'd wager that there are a pretty fair showing of people in the area.

[Dozer1one]

Buying all the equipment piece by piece, researching each individual item, assembling it all, customizing your sump and plumbing, understanding how it all works in harmony to produce a stable, low nutrient environment, watching your chemical parameters through the cycle, building stands and hoods and other things; these are, for me, the most fun parts of this hobby. Once it's all set up it is nice to look at, but a considerable portion of the fun is gone. Though you can always tinker, tweak, and add in this hobby. It also requires considerable attention and there is quite a bit of routine maintenance that needs to be done so it stays interesting for me constantly.

Aside from being fun, though, I think setting it all up from scratch is necessary to give yourself the best chance to succeed. If there is a problem with something you bought that's already set up, you'll have a much harder time solving than if you put it all together yourself. I believe starting from scratch forces you to obtain a vast amount of necessary knowledge that you could otherwise miss buying pre-set up. While initially it might save some time and effort, I think in the long run it's generally a bad idea for a first tank to be one that's already established. Might sound odd but it's what I think. Also, setting it all up yourself allows you to fine tune the system to house exactly the species of fish and/or corals you might want.

Im with him your gonna be to far ahead of yourself and everything will most likely die then the wife will hate the hobby step by step is better

[Down]

I'm going through what the OP is about to embark upon, I just bought an established tank and this is my first foray into this hobby. Some quick notes:
1. While taking everything step by step is certainly has its ups. You can choose your exact equipment, there's not as intense of a learning curve, etc.; I found there to be waaay more upside to taking this route. You save a LOT of money. more importantly, this is a hobby with a relatively high attrition rate. I'm going into it with the knowledge that it's a definite possibility I'll be selling it all soon as I just won't have the extended patience and passion. That's where several of the used setups you see come from. I'd rather be the one taking advantage of this situation than the one taking the depreciation hit on the chin.
2. Don't underestimate how heavy a tank can be. I lift weights here and there and am one of those guys that always gets called to help someone move. Tanks are heavy but more importantly, can be really awkward to move.
3. I originally planned on keeping the original sand and just cleaning it. I quickly realized that conventional wisdom on this topic is correct. Ditch it and buy new. Just my opinion.
4. I'd also highly suggest (as others have) that you take the current livestock and head straight to the LFS and get yourself some credit. You'll have enough headaches getting everything set up, no sense in adding the pain of trying to keep these fellas alive. better for you and MUCH better for them. Anyway, adding livestock is one of the funnest parts of this hobby.

[PubFiction]

Well the guy sold it before I could make a move so no big deal.

I am now curious what kind of money people get for fish they turn into the LFS? I assumed it would probably just be a fire sale and they would give you almost nothing on it. Otherwise I would think these people clearing out tanks would just do that right away to simplify the process.

[Down]

Well the guy sold it before I could make a move so no big deal.

I am now curious what kind of money people get for fish they turn into the LFS? I assumed it would probably just be a fire sale and they would give you almost nothing on it. Otherwise I would think these people clearing out tanks would just do that right away to simplify the process.
IME, figure on 25% of their value and you won't be too far off. This only applies to more expensive fish. Damsels, for instance, have been "Donation only".

[whiteshark]

All the lfss around me won't give you anything for any fish. They do give store credit for coral though.

[kenc87]

I live in Michigan also and let me tell you Michigan reefers is a great site, and living near Lansing you are close to preuss which is probably the best lfs in the state. I would really try to find someone local to give you a hand. Heck I'd be glad to meet you up at preuss sometime and give you help

[PubFiction]

Ya I have been to Preuss, it is very nice, in fact I have looked around when traveling for other pet stores and never found anything as nice as Pruess as of yet in Detroit or Chicago.

Mi Reefers website is infected with malware so I don't go there. Wish I could though. Same with planted tank another site. People in the Aquariums business need to learn how to manage their websites.

[kenc87]

Well as I said I am more than willing to meet up with you to give you a hand. Lmk