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Paul B
04/18/2013, 11:14 AM
Worms, I love worms and if it were not for worms I would not have this hobby, thats how much I rely on worms(although I never tasted them myself)
I use two types of worms for food, California Blackworms and lately, white worms. Blackworms are fresh water worms and white worms live in wet soil. Blackworms only live for about 15 seconds in saltwater but my fish eat them very fast so they never make it to the bottom. Whiteworms are smaller and live for a few hours in saltwater.
Through experience I have realized that fish that are in excellent health do two things, they spawn and they don't get sick. So if a fish is not spawning or exhibiting spawning tendancies, it is not that healthy and is suseptable to a vast assortment of maladies including ich. ( just see how many ich threads there are) A fishes immune system is much different than ours and fish make antibodies in a few different places in their body, one place is in their slime secreting glands. We sweat, fish exude slime. The slimier fish such as mandarins and eels are more disease resistant than less slimier fish such as tangs. More slime equals more antibodies.
Anyway, to get a fish into spawning condition is not simply to have them spawn so we can raise the fry. My fish spawn frequently and I have not raised any babies in many years but the fact that the fish are spawning is an indicator that the fish are in the best shape they will even be in.
I don't want this to be a discussion on ich or diseases, as that has been done to death and if you don't believe that spawning fish don't hardly get sick, start a new thread titled "Paul B thinks that if your fish are spawning, you have to step on them to kill them" or something like that.

Back to worms. Worms for some reason greatly aid the fish into getting into breeding condition. Why? I have no idea, but when I used to raise freshwater fish fifty years ago, blackworms are what I used to get the fish into condition. When I got my first saltwater fish in 1971 I also used live worms and I had blue devils spawning every few weeks for seven years, and that was before most people even knew salt water fish could be kept at home. Some fish will live for many years on flakes and pellets and some, such as clownfish and some other damsels will even spawn but for most fish a more nutritious diet is needed.
I realize that flakes today are better than many years ago but flakes are baked to dry them. Anything dry can not have the nutrition of moist food because many vitamins do not take to drying and the oils that I feel are the most important are lost during the drying process. There is also a reason that flake food, or any dry food lasts for months, there is not much to go bad in them. White flour can be kept forever for the same reason which is the reason it is always fortified with vitamins and minerals, if it were not fortified, it can not be called food because it is just paste. Think about that.

A fish is a cold blooded animal and like all cold blooded animals can go for long periods of time with no food. They don't waste calories as we do just trying to keep our body temperatures warm. Fish don't have to because the ocean where they live is already at the perfect temperature for them. We move around a lot in different temperature locations so our body has to regulate our internal temperature for us and that takes up most of the calories we eat. A large fish such as a shark can go almost a year without food.

Live worms (or live fish) supply the freshest assortment of nutrients that our fish need to not only live, but to spawn. Live saltwater fish are the best food but are not available to us as a fish food but the next best thing is live worms. When a fish produces eggs (as "all" healthy female fish do) the fish needs much more calories than it does when it is just living. If you have ever filleted a pregnant fish, you will see that the eggs can be half the weight or more of the fish. To produce these eggs the fish needs more nutrition, much more and in the correct proportions of fats and proteins. Fish egggs are mostly oil and it takes a lot of calories and fat to produce all that oil. This is a huge burden on a fish but in the sea they have plenty of fresh food and they eat it all day, not just in the morning or whenever we decide to feed them.

Also live foods provide nutrients that they can't put in dry foods because much of those nutrients are constantly produced by a living body and used up by that body.

I use live blackworms every day along with clams and mysis to feed my fish. Virtually all of my fish are spawning except my copperband butterfly, one watchman gobi that doesn't have a mate, a cardinal without a mate as I have five of them and the pairs are spawning and my Shrimp gobies as one of them is very young.
The rest of my 20 or so fish are spawning and disease free. Along with my mandarins even my 19 year old fireclowns are spawning. These fish have never had any diseases including ich and I add fish from the sea along with bacteria in the form of mud, seaweed, amphipods, copepods and anything I consider interesting.
I am not talking about being disease free for a year or two, I am talking over 30 years.

Recently I have added whiteworms to the menu as a test. I bought a starter culture a few weeks ago on line and now I have millions of the little suckers. I keep them in a plastic shoebox in potting soil and feed them matzo's. I am not Jewish and am not sure if my worms are but I find Matzo's great at raising worms, but they will eat just about anything including crackers, cheerios, bread, Alpo SPAM, linguini and clams, hamburger helper etc. I use Matzo's because I can lay it flat on the soil and I like to add a few drops of fish oil to them. (I try to get fish oil into anything I feed) In 2 days the worms will eat a 2"X2" piece of Matzo (or cracker) with fish oil on it.
When the cracker is almost completely finished there are so many worms on it that you can't see any cracker. I remove those small pieces and put them in a little fresh water and stir it up. The worms do a little Macarana dance and seperate from the cracker and I can remove the piece of cracker and just have worms.
Those worms are tiny, less than 1/4" and very skinny. My copperband and most of my fish can't even see them which is what I want because the copperband and other larger fish are busy eating the larger live blackworms so the white worms fall to the substrait where they do that macarana dance again attracting my smaller fish such as mandarins. My mandarins are normally fed live baby brine shrimp and they are spawning so they don't really need the extra nutrition but I just love to see the smile on their faces when they see tiny live worms.
My mandarins are so happy that when they think I am not looking even they start doing that Macarana dance. :dance:
A little video eating worms
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/th_2013-03-27115558_zps12b3b802.jpg (http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2013-03-27115558_zps12b3b802.mp4)

Wretched
04/18/2013, 11:42 AM
Good read, only time I use "worms" is for fishing the lakes. Your fish look very happy and healthy, good luck with white worms.

Paul B
04/18/2013, 11:45 AM
If you look closely, you can se little smiles on their faces. That larger fireclown is 19 and every fish in that video is spawning except the copperband. Of course most of the fish are in the back and didn't get up yet.

seuadr
04/18/2013, 12:08 PM
i LOVE black/blood worms for my freshwater tanks. i haven't had a picky eater yet that didn't go crazy for them.

it is nice to see that they are considered just as tasty in the marine world.

do you soak your worms or "gut load" them in any way? i soak my worms in garlic before i feed at somewhat erratic intervals in the hopes that it does something helpful (besides make my tank smell like italian food, and keeping vampires in check)

Paul B
04/18/2013, 12:10 PM
I don't gut load worms but I do feed the whiteworms matzo's with fish oil on it.
Bloodworms are not really worms and are not so good for saltwater fish as they would lack oils.
Just my opinion.

worm5406
04/18/2013, 12:14 PM
Paul... is this another one of those threads? ;)

I have a friend that uses worms in his tank also. I have frozen ones (yeah I know) and my fish do not even touch them.

Paul B
04/18/2013, 12:18 PM
Paul... is this another one of those threads?

I have a friend that uses worms in his tank also. I have frozen ones (yeah I know) and my fish do not even touch them.



Another one of what threads? A Paris Hilton thread? Thread about wasps?
Army stories? Other stuff I make up as I go along? What?
If your fish don't eat worms, they just don't like you. Did you ever go fishing using worms? You caught fish didn't you? Fish love worms. Maybe yours are just being difficult or have a social disease. Maybe they never saw a worm. :confused:

worm5406
04/18/2013, 12:26 PM
Yeah... that is what I thought...

I mean we can talk about army stories, there are a lot of worms in there.

I have no problem fishing for fish with worms...

I think mine just like escargot better!

Now some mysis... they love... maybe I spoiled them.

Dmoody
04/18/2013, 12:50 PM
somebody said army stories?

Paul B
04/18/2013, 01:14 PM
somebody said army stories?
I only know Viet Nam Army stories. We were not all dressed up and clean like you guys.:beer:
And you are a Drill Sgt, so you can most likely beat me up or at least make me do pushups. But not to many :lol:
Besides I would have so much time in rank now that I could probably be a four star general.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/VietNam.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/VietNam.jpg.html)

GSMguy
04/18/2013, 01:28 PM
General Paul has general knowledge.

Paul B
04/18/2013, 01:49 PM
Yeah, I want to be like Eisenhower, 5 Star General but without all the work, war and all that.

Chriscro
04/18/2013, 01:59 PM
I feed white worms about once every two weeks, all my fish go nuts for them.

never had any ill effects

Paul B
04/18/2013, 02:00 PM
That is good but why don't you feed them every day?

Dmoody
04/18/2013, 02:51 PM
Love that picture..Its deffinatley a different time.

Paul B
04/18/2013, 03:40 PM
It was different, but war is war.
And I apreciate what you guys are doing and thank you.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/scan0020.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/scan0020.jpg.html)

TimeConsumer
04/18/2013, 03:45 PM
Alright Paul,

So after reading this, probably your 14th discourse on blackworms, I finally decided to give them a shot. I bought some from the LFS today and threw in a few to see what happened. I was quite surprised by what I saw.

The first few worms I threw in, no fish ate them. I kept putting in about 3 or 4 at a time, and the fish were very hesitant to eat them. The cardinal was the first diner, followed by one the clowns, finally the squami decided to get in on the action, and lastly one of the bartletts. The tang didn't want any (maybe he's full, been munching on nori all day), the damsel didn't want any, and the mandarin was nowhere to be found.

So it seems my fish aren't very interested at this point. I have a feeling they will warm up to them, a lot of it probably has to do with the fact that this is their 3rd feeding today and it came a little earlier than usual. But I thought you'd be interested in the results.

Paul B
04/18/2013, 03:55 PM
TimeConsumer, you are correct, that was probably my 14th discourse on worms, I jkust love them what can I tell you. I am sure your fish have the same taste buds as my fish but they probably never saw a worm before. I have been feeding them for fifty years so they really know what worms taste like. I also feed clams but they prefer worms. Your fish should warm up to them. If not, what can I tell you, I only report on what I know and don't advise on what youy should do. I am really surprised your tang didn't eat them, when I had hippo tangs they loved them.
I hope you didn't throw top many in at once as you know they croak almost instantly but my fish never let any hit the ground as you can see from the video.
I think if yours get used to them, they may not eat anything else which sometimes happens with worms.

TimeConsumer
04/18/2013, 04:03 PM
I hope you didn't throw top many in at once as you know they croak almost instantly but my fish never let any hit the ground as you can see from the video.

I put around 4-6 in at a time. I don't think I put in more than 2 dozen during the whole feeding session. I'd say maybe half were eaten, the other I suspect will be chopped up by the powerheads and turned into coral food, no loss there.

I think if yours get used to them, they may not eat anything else which sometimes happens with worms.

Great, so my $50 in PE mysis that I have in the freezer will go to waste. Gumbo anyone?

Paul B
04/18/2013, 05:14 PM
I always turn off my powerheads, I don't like chopped up worms

ReefKeeper64
04/20/2013, 09:26 PM
This article also states what you said. That White worms are an excellent live food for fish and are incredibly easy to raise.
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Greene_White%20Worms.html.

I'm searching for a place that sells starter cultures now. Thanks for the idea!

Paul B
04/21/2013, 06:33 AM
Maybe they read what I wrote, or maybe I read his first. :lol:

bugs713
04/21/2013, 06:55 AM
Okay, I'm sold on white worms and other worms!
So where can I buy starter cultures online?
Got worms?

Paul B
04/21/2013, 07:14 AM
Just Google "white worm cultures " like I did. I forgot which one I ordered from but they are cheap

jahmic
04/21/2013, 07:19 AM
Thanks for posting this, definitely going to give this a try as I used to feed blackworms to my FW fish to encourage breeding.

I've avoided blackworms in the reef up til now, but a white worm culture sounds promising.

ReefKeeper64
04/21/2013, 08:02 AM
Okay, I'm sold on white worms and other worms!
So where can I buy starter cultures online?
Got worms?


This search brings up several outfits that sell white worm cultures. http://www.bing.com/search?q=white+worm+cultures+for+sale&qs=HS&form=QBLH&pq=white+&sc=8-6&sp=1&sk=&ghc=1 (http://www.bing.com/search?q=white+worm+cultures+for+sale&qs=HS&form=QBLH&pq=white+&sc=8-6&sp=1&sk=&ghc=1)

Rybren
04/21/2013, 08:12 AM
I can't get live black worms around here, but I can get frozen. I've been using them for about a year now and the fish just love them. They even made some signs that read "Don't forget to thank Paul for telling you about the worms"

So, on behalf of my fish, thank you Paul!

Paul B
04/21/2013, 08:31 AM
On behalf of your fish, Your welcome.

knight2255
04/21/2013, 09:14 AM
Any major difference between white worms and grindal worms?

dryworm
04/21/2013, 09:17 AM
cool. i love learning something new everyday. how much fish oil do you put on your matzo?

Paul B
04/21/2013, 09:47 AM
I never used or even saw grindal worms so I don't know.

how much fish oil do you put on your matzo?


I don't measure it but I take a 2"X2" matzo and put like two lines of oil across it with an eye dropper. They eat the entire thing and they have fish on their breath so I know they are eating it.

knight2255
04/21/2013, 10:39 AM
I was just reading that grindal worms can tolerate higher temps and breed best at 72 degrees whereas white worms like it in the low 60's. YMMV tho

TimeConsumer
04/30/2013, 07:03 PM
Here is an update for you paul. All the fish eat the worms now, quickly too. And my clowns have started to show breeding behavior tonight. You might have something here.

ReefKeeper64
04/30/2013, 11:58 PM
my order of white worms arrived doa. The way they were packaged, they didn't have a chance. I live in the south and they need to stay cool. I may try another vendor and go with grindals.

Jerry Gonzales
05/01/2013, 05:19 AM
Could you show some pics of how you keep them and harvest them. I am already thinking of places to keep them in my basement :) thanks

Paul B
05/01/2013, 09:24 AM
I took a picture of them as soon as I got them. But now the thing is full of worms and I may have to start throwing some out soon as they multiply a little to quickly. Remember I also feed blackworms and clams so I don't use to many white worms every day.
This is when I got the culture so just make believe there are white worms all over the surface now congregating on the Cheerios or Matzo's that I feed them. I also put fish oil on their food and they don't seem to care, they will eat anything.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2013-03-21085856_zps75708809.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/2013-03-21085856_zps75708809.jpg.html)

saf1
05/01/2013, 10:49 AM
Hi Paul, others.

Your tank continues to look amazing as do your older pictures of life. It still amazes me what you and your generation went through in regards to how people and the media treated returning vets. Today, some people talk and brag about the accomplishments (ST6 for example, and the sniper who wrote the book) they have done but in years past you wouldn't know if your neighbor next door had a purple heart or bronze start. Only on a good day would you hear your uncle, mother, or father passing along a story about something they did and why. I know that was my biggest gift from my uncles. Heck, I didn't know one shot down two zero's during the attack on peral harbor until he recently passed. Anyway, I disgress.

I did want to ask a question through about the worms. The question is in regards to terrestrial food or what they would find in their surroundings. For example, we know giving lettuce, iceburg being more common, to tangs adds no nutritional value at all. Heck, it doesn't really add much to people. Nori, on the other hand, does wonders.

Now that I think about it I really have no idea where they even come from naturally so maybe this is a stupid question. I guess now that I think about it the worms are providing protein so it probably doesn't matter much and I'm just over thinking this...

Side note, during survival school I ate several worms. My punishment for not killing the rabbit :(

SaltwaterSensei
05/01/2013, 12:02 PM
How do you prepare the white worms for feeding? Its seems it would be hard to seperate them from their grow culture.

Paul B
05/01/2013, 12:24 PM
It still amazes me what you and your generation went through in regards to how people and the media treated returning ve

They didn't treat us like much of anything, maybe dirt. My last day in the Army was in the Jungle of Cambodia, I got on a small helocopter and my "Frend" flew me to a place where a fixed airplane could land. On the trip (While drinking a bottle of Wild Turkey wiskey) :crazy1:he flew under a few bridges, hit the top of a few trees, tried to turn the thing over and flew 3' over a dirt logging roat right into a logging truck until all the Vietnamese loggers jumped off. It was an interesting flight for my last day. When the TWA jet took off from Nam we all gave a standing ovation. We landed in New Jersey after the 24 hour flight eating only baloney sandwiches with nothing on them. No movie of course. In McGuire Air Force Base, (I was still dirty) there was no one up to check us out so we started tearing the place apart until someone who could type came in. My wife (who was my girlfriend) and my Sister n Law filled out our discharge papers. Then they gave me a 15 cent subway token and showed me the door. There are no subways in New Jersey so if these people did not come the 100 miles to pick me up, I would have had to hitch.
That is how I got out of the Army.:worried:

Side note, during survival school I ate several worms. My punishment for not killing the rabbit

I also would have eaten the worms. No problem.

To prepare the worms for feeding, I usually read to them in a darkened room so they don't get scared. Then I let them eat anything they want, but it is usually Cheerios with fish oil on it. Then I gently throw them in the tank and let the fish feast.
When I feed them Cheerios, there are so many worms on the Cheerio that I just pick up the Cheerio and put it in some fresh water. The worms jump off and whatever little piece of Cheerio that is left I suck out because the fish won't eat it for some reason. It is like a donut shaped ball of worms.

Hey are you Army Guys still on here? Your artillery correct? Here are some pictures, I am in 4 of them. Anything look familiar?
http://www.77fa.org/photos177.html

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/VietNam2_zps14866efd.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/VietNam2_zps14866efd.jpg.html)

Derbird
05/01/2013, 12:49 PM
Thank you for this thread. I recently bought some live black worms for my fresh water tank and decided to give some to the salt tanks too. I didn't know if I was doing a good thing or not but EVERY fish loved them. From the Tangs to the Wrasses no fish turned them down :)

saf1
05/01/2013, 12:58 PM
Air Force here while active. Air National Guard the past 22 years though.

Still dig the pictures though :)

Paul B
05/01/2013, 01:03 PM
Thank you for this thread.
Thank you for reading it. It is kind of a mixed up thread like most of my posts.

Air Force here while active. Air National Guard the past 22 years though.

Still dig the pictures though



Thank you for your service. I appreciate it.
Air Force is cool. The Phantom Jets used to fly over our heads at treetop level, scared the heck out of me. I used to fly in this a few times a week, even managed to crash in it. Lots of fun to fly although I was not a pilot and was not allowed to fly the thing.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/Chopper.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/Chopper.jpg.html)

I also crashed in this guy, but obviousely both crashes were not that big a deal. These things used to get shot down and crash every day, you just didn't hear about it in the states.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/sortie.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/sortie.jpg.html)

worm5406
05/01/2013, 04:11 PM
Hey are you Army Guys still on here? Your artillery correct? Here are some pictures, I am in 4 of them. Anything look familiar?

Hummm... you have hair??

Paul B
05/01/2013, 05:03 PM
I had all sorts of hair, but haircuts are expensive so I let it all fall out.

SaltwaterSensei
05/01/2013, 08:38 PM
, but haircuts are expensive so I let it all fall out.


HAHAH I'm going to have use that if I ever loose my hair... :ape:

MARINECRITTERS
05/01/2013, 08:43 PM
Great thread, worms really seem to be a great food source, easy to breed as well.
A few years back after rain storms, I would go out on our patio and pick out all the largest earth worms I could find, then feed them to my catfish and gars, it was tons of fun to feed them, also the food was free!

knight2255
05/01/2013, 09:08 PM
How do you prepare the white worms for feeding? Its seems it would be hard to seperate them from their grow culture.


There is a good tutorial on growing these on youtube. The guy places plastic mesh for needlepoint on top of the soil. In between he puts 2 pieces of bread and some dogfood/fish pellets and mists it. Every other day he scraps off the worms that migrate to the top of the mesh with a plastic spatula for harvest. Puts more bread in and mists. Seems pretty simple and its been working for me so far with my week old culture. Curious as to how Paul does it as well.

Paul B
05/02/2013, 04:38 AM
I discuss harvesting about 9 posts up. Or if your computer is on it's side, 9 posts left of here (depending on which way your computer is laying)

2_zoa
05/31/2013, 07:04 AM
Would the Mama Mia worms from IPSF's be considered a food source? Would my fish pick them out of the sand bed? I'm not really up on worm knowledge. I ordered my white worms weeks ago and have not received them yet. I guess they culture them to order.

Paul B
05/31/2013, 09:31 AM
I don't know what Mama Mia worms are, sounds like some sort of Italian worms.

I have so many worms now that I just place a small piece of plexiglass on top of the food, and the worms cover the plastic and I just scrape them off. No dirt comes with them.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2013-05-04101313_zps58114d25.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/2013-05-04101313_zps58114d25.jpg.html)

2_zoa
05/31/2013, 06:50 PM
Here is there description of them.

Mama Mia Worms™ The common name of these deposit-feeding annelids from the family Terrebellidae is Spaghetti Worms. But let's face it - how many people can spell "spaghetti" correctly on the first try? We sure couldn't. Hence the name, Mama Mia. These highly active worms have bright red buccal tentacles which extend out over the sand bed to gather suitably sized particulate materials, which they "lasso" by tentacular contraction. It's fascinating to watch, and it sure beats vacuuming your sand bed. Here's a bonus: you can count on Mama Mia worms to reproduce in your tank because they have direct development (no planktonic stage). Specimens average approx. 1/2 "-1" in length with tentacles extended. 100% captive-bred by IPSF.

On another note, I actually received the white worms today. So my fish are happy little swimmers and they send you many thanks Paul. :celeb1: I gotta say, the place I ordered from did a bang up job. The worms were not a starter culture at all. I was able to feed right away and the packing job was great. Shredded newspaper with a cold pack, wrapped in the foil backed bubble wrap. Looking at your pics Paul, I'd bet I was shipped the same amount or more. The pic they have is accurate to what you get. I ordered from skeeter bites dot com.

worm5406
05/31/2013, 10:00 PM
Pictures?

Paul B
06/01/2013, 05:45 AM
But let's face it - how many people can spell "spaghetti" correctly on the first try?

I am of Sicilian ancestry so I better be able to spell spaghetti

hogfanreefer
06/01/2013, 08:32 AM
Here is there description of them.

Mama Mia Worms™ The common name of these deposit-feeding annelids from the family Terrebellidae is Spaghetti Worms. But let's face it - how many people can spell "spaghetti" correctly on the first try? We sure couldn't. Hence the name, Mama Mia. These highly active worms have bright red buccal tentacles which extend out over the sand bed to gather suitably sized particulate materials, which they "lasso" by tentacular contraction. It's fascinating to watch, and it sure beats vacuuming your sand bed. Here's a bonus: you can count on Mama Mia worms to reproduce in your tank because they have direct development (no planktonic stage). Specimens average approx. 1/2 "-1" in length with tentacles extended. 100% captive-bred by IPSF.

On another note, I actually received the white worms today. So my fish are happy little swimmers and they send you many thanks Paul. :celeb1: I gotta say, the place I ordered from did a bang up job. The worms were not a starter culture at all. I was able to feed right away and the packing job was great. Shredded newspaper with a cold pack, wrapped in the foil backed bubble wrap. Looking at your pics Paul, I'd bet I was shipped the same amount or more. The pic they have is accurate to what you get. I ordered from skeeter bites dot com.

Could you share where you ordered them?

2_zoa
06/01/2013, 11:14 AM
Could you share where you ordered them?

I put it in my last post, though I separated it out. I wasn't sure the link would be ok or not. The white worms are from... http://www.skeeterbytes.com/wworms.htm

The Mama Mia worms I asked about are from IPSF.
Indo
Pacific
Sea
Frams
http://www.ipsf.com/

Pictures?

This is pretty much how I got them. I added the Cheerios and the needle point mesh last night about 6 pm or so. It would seem they haven't found my Cheerios just yet.

This is the 32 oz (4 cup) container they came in.
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/pentair/SW%20aquarium/P1010262.jpg (http://s385.photobucket.com/user/pentair/media/SW%20aquarium/P1010262.jpg.html)

The bottom
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/pentair/SW%20aquarium/P1010263.jpg (http://s385.photobucket.com/user/pentair/media/SW%20aquarium/P1010263.jpg.html)

One of the sides
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/pentair/SW%20aquarium/P1010264.jpg (http://s385.photobucket.com/user/pentair/media/SW%20aquarium/P1010264.jpg.html)

The inside
http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo300/pentair/SW%20aquarium/P1010266.jpg (http://s385.photobucket.com/user/pentair/media/SW%20aquarium/P1010266.jpg.html)


Edit; I wiped the lid down and the top portion of the inside last night to feed with. I couldn't feed them all. I have 6 fish (small) fish in my display, and 1 in QT. I'm also taking Paul's word of caution not to feed them too heavy, so my fish don't get picky. Though I fed them a bunch last night.

outssider
06/01/2013, 05:11 PM
how do you keep these alive in the summer...

Paul B
06/01/2013, 05:33 PM
I put them in my basement where it is cooler than 70. If you can't keep them cool, you can't keep them

stephenhall1987
06/01/2013, 09:45 PM
To start with, I'd like to say thank you all for serving our country.

Would the Mama Mia worms from IPSF's be considered a food source? Would my fish pick them out of the sand bed?

I do not believe that fish really eat spaghetti worms. I've had them in a tank before (hitch hikers), and I never saw them pick at them. They just make the sand look gross.

Paul, I'd be interested in seeing how you raise the black worms. Also, are the white worms in dirt? Do you ever change out the dirt?

I think i might try raising worms. Is there any creature that isn't hard to raise that lives in saltwater?

Paul B
06/02/2013, 04:17 AM
I also have spaghetti worms all over the tank and my fish never eat them.
I keep the black worms in here. They do reproduce but not fast enough. They like shallow, moving water and if it is cool, that is better. I feed them paper towels as they eat the decomposition products of it. The white worms you do have to change the soil eventually so I have been feeding them on one side and most of the worms are on that side. I will remove the soil onthe other side and discard it. I will lose a lot of worms doing that but they multiply very fast.
There is no creatures that I know of that are easy to raise in saltwater that would re produce fact enough to be of benefit. I hatch brine shrimp but I don't raise them because they are only nutritious when they are first born.
There is another worm thread here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1907090
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/Wormkeeper008.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/Wormkeeper008.jpg.html)

2_zoa
06/02/2013, 11:41 AM
I do not believe that fish really eat spaghetti worms. I've had them in a tank before (hitch hikers), and I never saw them pick at them. They just make the sand look gross.


Thank you.

how do you keep these alive in the summer...

I bought a small refrigerator to store them in. Its on its highest setting and its running at 45*F. I know that's on the cool side for them. I'm hopping they do fine in there and that the reproduction rate is a little slow due to the cold temps. It seems anyone I've read about raising these worms, very quickly has more then they can feed.

stephenhall1987
06/02/2013, 10:35 PM
There is another worm thread here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1907090

Wow, 21 pages. I read the first page, and skimmed over the rest.
I'm a believer in a varied diet, especially in an aquarium where all the different fish eat the same food. I do like the idea of these worms as a large staple, with other foods for variety (assuming they don't get hooked on the worms).



Does any one on here have blackworms or whiteworms in Oklahoma? Or am I going to have to order them?

2_zoa
06/05/2013, 06:58 AM
Maybe I'm just having some wishful thinking on my part but, when I bought my two onyx clowns. They had a few tiny pin holes in their first bar behind/on their heads. I've seen these holes on so many (just about all) of the clown fish that I see or have seen.

Anyway, last night I noticed my fish no longer have these little holes. Their bars are nice and solid. All I've ever fed during my adventures in keeping SW aquariums is mysis and spirolina brine. Until lately, which I fed two portions of tubifex worms while I was waiting for the white worms to get to me.
Did feeding the worms give that something extra that allowed my fish to overcome these pin holes? I can't remember my other clowns being able to heal them in my first tank?

Paul B
06/05/2013, 07:37 AM
I have no idea if worms cured your clownfish of pinholes, but my fish never get sick. By never I don't mean a few months or years, And they get worms every day. Generally, if a fish lives for a few weeks, It will live long enough for me to give it away years later because it either got to big, mean or I just wanted something different. I donated many fish to public aquariums such as the Coney Island Aquarium.

dixiedog
06/05/2013, 08:36 AM
I put them in my basement where it is cooler than 70. If you can't keep them cool, you can't keep them

Well that's too bad. My daytime house temp is 77F. The only place cooler than 70 in my house is inside the fridge ... unless the wife is in a mood, in which case you can sometimes actually see your breath in the air.

2_zoa
06/05/2013, 08:41 PM
I have no idea if worms cured your clownfish of pinholes, but my fish never get sick. By never I don't mean a few months or years, And they get worms every day. Generally, if a fish lives for a few weeks, It will live long enough for me to give it away years later because it either got to big, mean or I just wanted something different. I donated many fish to public aquariums such as the Coney Island Aquarium.


Yea, I know my post came across as newbie ish. I was a bit tired after a few too many beers last night. On a school (work) night, none the less. Haha. What I was after was, maybe a comparison of nutrition or something worms have that the other foods don't. I can't seem to find anything on worms as far as nutrition. About the most I've come across is that they might be high in fat??? Haha.

Thank you for the response Paul.

Paul B
06/06/2013, 05:05 AM
I think I wrote the most about worms and I don't know what about them makes them so good but I don't have to quarantine, my fish live forever and all of them that can spawn are spawning. It could be the worms because I doubt it is my undergravel filter or my good looks.

sanababit
06/06/2013, 11:10 AM
This is how i understand my fish and what they feel after giving them some food or worms

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/sargon_111/1363593482882.jpg

2_zoa
06/06/2013, 12:38 PM
This is how i understand my fish and what they feel after giving them some food or worms

http://i376.photobucket.com/albums/oo206/sargon_111/1363593482882.jpg

Lol. That's awesome!!

SaltwaterSensei
06/06/2013, 05:21 PM
Hahahaha thats great remineds me of the wong-baker faces pain scale rating but for fish LOL

Spyderturbo007
06/07/2013, 07:30 AM
So after reading a bunch of your posts PaulB, I'm going to give this a shot and would like your advice.

I see that most people buy them from AquaticFoods (http://www.aquaticfoods.com/LiveBlackwormsM.html) and was going to start with 1/4lb at first to give it a shot. I do have a few remedial questions though.

It looks like when the worms arrive they will be in dirt, but I'm reading that people keep them in water. Do I just rinse off all the dirt and cover them with RO/DI? Just throw them in any old Tupperware container? Then everyday, I need to pour off some water and refill with fresh RO/DI?

Is it OK to keep them in my basement that runs around 66 - 70 degrees in the summer? I don't know if my wife would like the idea of having a bunch of worms in the fridge next to the milk.

How long does a 1/4lb last? I only have 5 fish (Tang, Clown, 2 x Banggai, Firefish).

Paul B
06/07/2013, 07:48 AM
Spyderturbo007 you are getting your worms all mixed up. Blackworms as I have pictured above in water are always in water and never in dirt. They come in freshwater and need to be in freshwater forever until you feed them to your fish. You can keep them in your refrigerator in very shallow water and rinse them every day or you can build a worm keeper like I pictured.
White worms come in dirt and always live in dirt. You buy a culture of them, then put them in more dirt and feed them something like Cheerios and they multiply. They are smaller than blackworms but they reproduce fast.
I use both types of worms.

Spyderturbo007
06/07/2013, 07:57 AM
I guess I got confused because when I looked at the "Worm Keeper" for blackworms on the AquaticFoods website, it looks like it is filled with dirt.

I read in another thread where you said you buy your worms each week. I really only have a Petco and Pet Smart in my area and they don't sell blackworms, so I have to order online. I'm assuming 1/4lb is going to be a ton of worms for 5 fish. How long do they live?

Thanks Paul.

Paul B
06/07/2013, 08:08 AM
1/4lb of worms are a lot of worms and most of them will die before you feed them to your fish. I buy them by the ounce and I have about 25 fish and that lasts me a week.
If you have a bunch of friends that need worms that may work, or faise white worms which multiply and are very cheap to order the starter culture.
White worms eating a matzo.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2013-05-04101313_zps58114d25.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/2013-05-04101313_zps58114d25.jpg.html)

HumbleFish
08/24/2013, 07:33 AM
Just wanted to mention in this thread that any LFS using Segrest Farms as a wholesaler can order live blackworms from them. Segrest sells mostly f/w; so buddy up with the LFS selling f/w fish in your area. :) Hopefully this info will be useful to those of us too lazy or the wife has a problem with growing our own worms. ;)

Paul B
08/24/2013, 07:53 AM
As I have said many times before, if it were not for live worms, I would not be in this hobby as I don't want to deal with quarantining, sick fish, dead fish and all that.
It is more trouble to feed live worms to fish than dry food, but it is even more trouble to have sick fish. I realize not everyone has access to live blackworms but everyone can get white worms as they send you a small supply and they multiply like crazy on 5 or 6 Cheerios a day.
People make fun at me all the time because I suggest worms, those are the people posting on the disease forums. :spin2:
This hobby is simple if you do a few simple things, people make it harder than it has to be. :wavehand:
There are so many more posts on parameters than food. I wonder why? :hmm2:

ReefPharmer
08/24/2013, 01:18 PM
Hey Paul I know you went over it before but I live in SoCal where keeping the home in high 60s is pretty expensive during the heat of the summer.
I plan on getting a mini fridge for black worms and maybe checking out the white worms. I have 4 tangs (Achilles , powder blue , chevron and a yellow) 2 spotcinctus clowns, 5 anthias and a melanarus wrasse in a 80. They are all happy or so they tell me and show no diseases but I do want to have them due of old age one day.
Do you have a self sustaining colony of black worms ? Or so you continuously buy them ? I don't want to be visiting the lfs on a several day basis and buying new worms all the time may introduce disease into the tank. Thanks !

Paul B
08/24/2013, 02:51 PM
I keep buying them. They reproduce but not fast enough for my use. If I wanted to make a muck larger worm keeper, I think I could have enough. But I can easily get them and they are cheap.
White worms may be hard for you as a fridge is to cold and your home may be to hot. They like the low 70s

ReefKeeper64
08/25/2013, 06:52 AM
Here are some observations in case anyone is interested.

I've have black worms for the past week and all the fish are eating them now. Initially, a couple of them didn't know what to do with them but now all 12 fish happily eating them daily. I notice they go after them quickly but they don't gorge themselves on worms so they must be filling.

To maintain them in a temp setup, I bought $5 worth of blackworms at a LFS and put them in a 10 gal tank with a bubbler and RO water. They are in about 4 inches of water and doing fine. Since these are fresh water worms that live in muddy environments naturally, they are good. My garage where I am keeping them is 80 degrees. I will be setting up a real wormkeeper tray with plumbing this coming week.

Thanks again for the idea Paul!

Paul B
08/25/2013, 07:17 AM
80 degrees is a little warm and cooler is better, but I would not buy an air conditioner for the worms. Unless of course, you could get a really tiny one.

den75
08/25/2013, 08:01 AM
Paul, do you think the frozen or freeze dried blackworms be a good substitute for the live ones?

rogersb
08/25/2013, 09:00 AM
I don't think you can freeze these worms. Something about their cells being too thin and rupturing when frozen. If you're worried about cool temps put them in the fridge. I keep mine in there in a small tupperware container with a lid. They last a long time.

Paul B
08/25/2013, 10:10 AM
I have no love for freeze dried anything, but I do sometimes freeze the blackworms when I go on vacation. I have never seen them sold frozen, but maybe they do sell them. Don't get frozen bloodworms as those are common and are beetle larvae and not worms. IMO they are no good for salt water fish even though they eat them.

ReefKeeper64
08/26/2013, 08:18 PM
80 degrees is a little warm and cooler is better, but I would not buy an air conditioner for the worms. Unless of course, you could get a really tiny one.

I gave them each little Japanese hand fans to keep themselves cooled off and now they're complaining about not having hands or something, can't quite make it out. Down here in Florida 80 degrees is considered cool and that's what I keep telling the worms. They haven't quit their jobs yet so that's a good sign. For others - don't try this at home - I'm a professional. :deadhorse1:

Paul B
08/27/2013, 04:50 AM
I am in Florida quite often and my friend just bought a place on Key largo. I love the place.
You have no choice but to move up north. And they sell those little Japanese fans all over the place. Your worms will thank you.

ReefKeeper64
08/29/2013, 06:41 AM
Worm report:

Every one of my fish have officially become worm connoisseurs. They all go after worms like they're going out of style at feeding time.

The wormkeeper I'm using is a plastic container with a gallon or two of tap water and an air bubbler. I changed out the RO water with plain tap water a couple days ago. I know the tap water contains chloramines (don't ask - LOL) and the worms are still wiggling 2 days later. I'm surprised actually because this was a bit of a test to see just how hardy these live treats really are. I spent all of $5 on the worms a week ago and the fish are still eating live food daily so that's not a bad investment!

Let me know the next time you are headed to Florida. Didn't you say you have a factory down this way?

rhinonm
09/15/2013, 06:42 PM
I don't think you can freeze these worms. Something about their cells being too thin and rupturing when frozen. If you're worried about cool temps put them in the fridge. I keep mine in there in a small tupperware container with a lid. They last a long time.

I used to buy bulk live blackworms and keep them alive just long enough to freeze them in individual ice cubes. The fish do not seem to mind and still go crazy for the frozen ones. I thaw them before serving and the worms looks the same.

I just bought 10lbs from cali blackworm farm pre frozen. They should last me a long time.

kelrn98
09/15/2013, 09:09 PM
I feed my fish live blackworms daily. I originally purchased them to encourage my CBB to eat (he gobbles them up!). All of my fish seem to love them (aside from the mandarin who will only eat copepods. I get them shipped from Cali & keep them in my fridge in RO water. I rinse them & change the water every 2-3 days. My last batch have survived over 4 weeks without feeding. I don't think I have the time, space, or patience to grow my own, so I will keep ordering mine online for now. But my fish will continue to be fed worms daily; they are all fat & happy!

Paul B
09/16/2013, 04:32 AM
Let me know the next time you are headed to Florida. Didn't you say you have a factory down this way?


I don't own the factory, they just build something for me. I go to Key Largo to see friends.

Mental1
09/16/2013, 07:33 PM
I have black worms for my CBB, his tank mate, the matted filefish slurps them too. I tried feeding the other tank worms but the only takers were the wrasses but I will try again. I keep them in a worm keeper I bought from aquatic foods, rinse them daily with ro water, they hang out in the basement fridge with the bird food and they last a long time.

Paul - thanks to you for serving. I was appalled at how you guys were treated and stood up for you all whenever needed. People were confused, or stupid, or both. Thank you and our guys out there now.

Paul B
09/17/2013, 04:38 AM
Thank you Sherri

sandyland
09/21/2013, 11:50 PM
Do you think it would be OK to feed compost worms?
We have worms called red wigglers in our compost.
They breed like crazy and would be a source of constant food.

Paul B
09/22/2013, 12:48 AM
I couldn't say as I never used them. Why don't you try them on some black mollies

rjallen
09/22/2013, 07:19 PM
Paul & All

I purchased some Canadian White Worms in Regina and smuggled them south cross the border....OK I did declare them...as fish food. Seemed to work.
I divided the the container with 3 additional containers and placed them in my North Dakota basement. They have done "all right" But I'm not getting them up on the container or on the food. No Jewish unleavened bread here so I am using whole wheat crackers and dry cat food. I first used Selcon....expensive... as I couldn't get fish oil outside of the gel caps. I finally did find a fish oil supplement for puppies at the local Walmart. Too early to tell if that will help things, so I'll get to my point.

My worms rarely come out of the soil or onto the sides of the plastic container. They stay in the soil, hundreds, heck, thousands of them. Getting enough to feed takes at least 1/2 hour to to clean them out of the soil. Using the plastic mesh and the few worms I find on it are easy to separate....I just dunk it into ROI water. But they are not enough to feed so I am stuck digging for worms. I have tried putting the dirt into water but the worms seem to like it just fine and do not surface. My basement's temp. peaked in August at 66 degrees and is now 64. I am keeping the dirt moist but not wet. I have a problem with mold as I travel a lot for work and seem to change food once a week.

Any help out there?

RJ

cloak
09/23/2013, 12:55 AM
For some reason, discus and a diet of live worms have a bad rap...

There nothing but candy IMO. I'd much rather feed flakes eight days a week.

Fish breeding is a fluke now days. Play those odds...

Paul B
09/23/2013, 04:47 AM
RJ, I have no experience with Canadian worms. I don't know what they eat, or drink, or how they spend their time. But I guess with their like of staying in the soil, it will be hard to get them out. I have experimented with low voltage electricity to get my blackworms out easier but they seem to like the shocks. I know it works on earthworms so it may work on your worms. If you have a phone sharger you can put one electrode at one end and the other electrode at the other end and see if, in time they come to the surface. But you will have to ruin the charger for that.

TheLub
10/01/2013, 06:34 PM
Regarding your theories on worms and the nutrition they provide the fish, do you think gut loading the worms with better food than matza would be worth it? Or is the matza and fish oil good enough? Seems like you have great results with that combo alone, but might you have better (is that possible?) results if you gut loaded the worms.

Paul B
10/02/2013, 04:27 AM
I ran out of Matzo's a long time ago so now they get Cheerios with some fish oil on it. They eat about 15 Cherios a day which equals a lot of worm growth. I feed these worms to my fish every day and they reproduce enough for me to do that.
I don't believe gut loading does anything for anything but feeding the worms allows them to reproduce and get nice and fat.

TheLub
10/31/2013, 12:12 AM
A new LFS in town started carrying black worms so I'm finally able to feed my FW tank with them. It took about 30 sec for the fish to figure out what they were. Then it was on like Donkey Kong. They love it. I think they may revolt if I go back to feeding frozen blood worms and brine shrimp :lolspin:

For now they're sitting in a bag in the fridge and they have been living for the last few days. I want to set up some type of worm keeper in the future. I'd like to raise them so I don't have to keep buying, but they owner at the LFS is a really good guy so I don't mind buying them for now.

Paul B
10/31/2013, 06:35 AM
These clown gobies spawned last night, the eggs are just to the right of the fish on the left. Virtually all of my fish (except a copper band butterfly) are spawning, this is directly an effect of feeding live worms every day.
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2013-10-30171253_zpsbda7aca4.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/2013-10-30171253_zpsbda7aca4.jpg.html)

rjallen
12/29/2013, 09:11 PM
I have been culturing white worms for several months now. At first, the worm colonies, purchased in Canada, had little growth. Then, a revelation, my worms must have been immigrants. Populations exploded when I abandoned cheerios, crackers and bread. My worms are from Asia. Rice, Japanese sticky rice to be exact, coupled with a fish oil supplement for dogs, were the secret ingredients for a worm baby boom! Now I have more worms than I will ever need. I am throwing away more than I feed cause the worms will not survive long out of dark dirt. That is my problem.
Unlike black worms, I don't think you can keep harvested white worms in the fridge. You must harvest before every feeding to get live wigglers. Am I missing something? Guess I'm lazy but I only get down to the basement and go through all 5 containers, then spend another 15 or so minutes cleaning the worms more than once a week or so. So my fish get worms only once a week and most of the worms harvested go down the porcelain throne.
Paul, and anyone else raising the white ones, how's it going? Have you figured out how to collect and hold the worms or do you go through the collection cleaning process each time you feed?
My fish like w. worms but don't seem crazy about them. Seems the fish get their fill very quickly so the danger of pollution from over-feeding is very.
real.
So I am asking everyone raising the little fellows about their experiences and advice.
Finally, HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone.
RJ

Paul B
01/09/2014, 04:29 PM
I still feed worms every day and all of my fish (except the copperband) are spawning. I am having a white worm problem. I went to Hawaii for a couple of weeks and when I came back I noticed that my white worms no longer eat Cheerios or Matzo's. I am not sure what they eat any more as I have tried clams and peanut butter along with other things. I still have plenty of white worms but now that I can't get them to eat, it is very hard to harvest them from the dirt. A few days ago I removed all the dirt and placed new dirt on the bottom of their container, then I put window screen over that and replaced the old dirt and worms on top. The worms are migrating down to the new dirt and soon I will remove the old dirt. I think the worms are mad at me for going to Hawaii and leaving them home. I will keep trying different types of food and if nothing works, I will dump them and buy a new culture. Maybe after a while they get bored of certain foods. I really like the white worms because they can live forever in fresh water and I throw them in with my blackworms where they all sit around hugging singing Coom bai Ah.
The whiteworms also live a very long time in saltwater and my mandarins hunt them. Blackworms only live for a few seconds in salt water but they do that Macarana dance before they croak and that is a big enticement for fish, expecially fish with rythum.
This picture has absolutely nothing to do with worms but it is my very new Grand Son Teddy. I put it on here because I can. :wavehand:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2014-01-01135954_zpsfe50ea10.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/2014-01-01135954_zpsfe50ea10.jpg.html)

woods4542000
01/09/2014, 05:52 PM
I also feed black worms , buying every couple of weeks from lfs . I'm thinking about starting my own culture , are they pretty simple , do you have culture crashes?

Spyderturbo007
01/10/2014, 07:54 AM
I got some from my LFS. Apparetnly they sold them the entire time, but hide them in the back and don't advertise them at all. :confused:

Anyway, it took a little bit for my fish to start eating them, but ultimately, my clown and two Banggai Cardinals started eating them, but my Tang would just spit them out. He refused to eat them.

I was able to keep them alive in the fridge for about 2 weeks without doing anything other than rinsing them with RO/DI once a day. I think they were still alive at the end of the second week, but you could tell they weren't as fat and didn't move around as much so I got rid of them.

Unfortunately, the LFS that sells them isn't so local. It will have to be a treat for the fish, as I can't be making a 2h round trip every other week to buy worms.

rjallen
01/10/2014, 10:32 AM
Paul
I think you need to determine your w. worms ethnicty. Perhaps they are Jewish and that's why you were so successful with matzo crackers. Perhaps they are no longer observant? Maybe there are Italian and pasta will work. As I mentioned my worms are asian, probably Chinese as they didn't take off until I provided rice.

Do you harvest your white worms for each feeding or do you attempt to hold them in refrigerated freshwater for several days? If so, how long can you hold them? I'm flushing more than I feed and was told you couldn't keep them for any length of time out of dirt.

Paul B
01/10/2014, 11:21 AM
I threw a bunch of them in the water a week ago and they are still hanging out with the blackworms. Now they don't eat any more it is very hard to harvest them. I am not sure if they are Jewish, Irish, or Nepalanese. One day they just stopped eating what they used to swarm all over. I may have to offer them some wine with their food, perhaps a nice merlot. I am sure I will figure it out and if now, they will be in my garden where it is about 14 degrees now. That will teach them.

JB63
01/10/2014, 12:32 PM
They stopped eating? ... must be a fasting ritual of some sort .... but on the seventh day ...

lokii_37
01/10/2014, 11:39 PM
Have you ever fed your fish tubifex worms?

cFloor
01/11/2014, 02:24 AM
How can you tell the difference between tubifex worms and black worms?

Paul B
01/11/2014, 07:00 AM
Tubifes worms are collected from cattle feeding troughs and drainage ditches, not good for aquarium life. They are lighter in color and thinner than blackworms which are commercially grown in California in ponds for aquarium food.

cFloor
01/11/2014, 02:37 PM
Thanks Paul, I'm pretty sure I have black worms. They both look so similar from the pics I've seen of them, I just wanted to be certain.

Spyderturbo007
01/24/2014, 02:36 PM
Paul, can I feed these black worms anything to keep them fat longer when they are in the fridge? They last about 2 weeks, but you can definitely tell they get thinner and thinner as time goes on. I end up throwing a ton of them away because after about 2 weeks they just don't look too terribly nutritious.

I took a few out, threw them in a shot glass and put some Selcon in with them. They went insane. I thought they were going to fly right out of the glass. I'm not quite sure if it is toxic to them or a feeding response.

Paul B
01/25/2014, 05:48 AM
They don't eat or grow in the fridge, thats why I built a worm keeper. They really don't like Selcon or salt which makes them do the Macarana.

robleto
01/25/2014, 10:48 AM
I get live blackworms from local fish store and fish seem to prefer it. Do recommend live than frozen.

lokii_37
01/25/2014, 03:16 PM
How many worms do you go through in the two weeks-ish they live for?

I'm trying to figure out how many worms I have to order to be cost effective but still be able to use before they die.

Paul B
01/25/2014, 05:55 PM
I use about an ounce a week and I have about 20 fish. But I also feed other things or I could use an ounce a day easily

Mg4life0331
01/25/2014, 05:57 PM
I still feed worms every day and all of my fish (except the copperband) are spawning. I am having a white worm problem. I went to Hawaii for a couple of weeks and when I came back I noticed that my white worms no longer eat Cheerios or Matzo's. I am not sure what they eat any more as I have tried clams and peanut butter along with other things. I still have plenty of white worms but now that I can't get them to eat, it is very hard to harvest them from the dirt. A few days ago I removed all the dirt and placed new dirt on the bottom of their container, then I put window screen over that and replaced the old dirt and worms on top. The worms are migrating down to the new dirt and soon I will remove the old dirt. I think the worms are mad at me for going to Hawaii and leaving them home. I will keep trying different types of food and if nothing works, I will dump them and buy a new culture. Maybe after a while they get bored of certain foods. I really like the white worms because they can live forever in fresh water and I throw them in with my blackworms where they all sit around hugging singing Coom bai Ah.
The whiteworms also live a very long time in saltwater and my mandarins hunt them. Blackworms only live for a few seconds in salt water but they do that Macarana dance before they croak and that is a big enticement for fish, expecially fish with rythum.
This picture has absolutely nothing to do with worms but it is my very new Grand Son Teddy. I put it on here because I can. :wavehand:

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh270/urchsearch/2014-01-01135954_zpsfe50ea10.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/urchsearch/media/2014-01-01135954_zpsfe50ea10.jpg.html)

Nice shirt!