Help setting up a Macro Algae/Pod tank

[Adamw327]

I am setting up a 10g inside the stand for my 55. It is NOT going to be plumbed into my DT.

Its set up and cycled. In the mail i have an Ulva macro and another varied macro, as well as all sorts of pods, mysis shrimp, and other micro organisms on the way

On one side of the tank i have a thin layer of live sand, and on the other i have mounds of crushed coral and some live rock piles.


I am fairly new to the entire hobby, and this is my first adventure into macro algae as well as pod cultivation. I hope to have a mandarin in 6 months or so.

I will also be putting some of each into my display, so that if something goes wrong with either system i will have a back up and will not have to start over again.

Can anyone share advice, tips, or good reads? I was hoping to find some helpful threads here on macro care but it seems to be more of an ID forum than anything

Thanks ahead of time!

[Adamw327]

The other Algae turned out to be Red Gracilaria.

And i highly recommend reefcleaners.org!

Unfortunately i have not had much luck keeping either alive, they were in great shape when they arrived however, but the first night the Grac. fell out of place and out of the current and about 1/4 turned white, but now 3 days later i do not see anymore white, and there is new growth. I am not sure if i should trim the white out, considering also that its in between healthy growth, so it would separate the plant and i do not want to cause any more stress.

The Ulva on the other hand was at first doing great, very hard to keep attached, and i have seen recommendations at tumbling but since i do not have a cage or something build it ends up stuck to the intake of pumps. It was seeming fine the first few days, hard to notice new growth, then this morning one of the 6 or 7 pieces i received started to turn clear.

As for the refuge i realized that pod cultivation really requires low flow and these two macros especially prefer high flow, so i did not waste much in the refuge, just a small piece of each to feed the pods and see how it does, will be ordering some chateo or whatever the really common fuge macro is when im ready to order some other things

[tektite]

Why not plumb it into the main system? It allows some of the pods, etc to get into the main tank, and helps the main tank by using nutrients to grow the macroalgae.

It doesn't need to look pretty. I have a side tank to my macroalgae tank, it looks awful at first glance! Packed with hair algae and caulerpa. However, that tank has the most pods of any tank I've ever set up. Thousands of creatures, many types of copepods, munnid isopods, amphipods (some very large, 1/2"), even got mysid shrimp to start breeding in there now. Flow is very low, fine with the macroalgae I use and great for the pods.

[Adamw327]

Honestly because i went way over budget as-is and plan a 30g or so sump in the future, for now im trying to scrape up enough to finish the LR and start adding more livestock while still maintaining water changes and testing and catching up on the bills i missed because i spent way to much money :spin2:

I had the 10g sitting around and just wanted a "back up" for the macro as well as a pod cultivation tank... My plan now is just to pack it with cheato(sp?) and pods. Im also more of a harvest and hand feed than a let it happen naturally type of person and i want to be ready to have a mandarin within a year or so. This way also if i have some sort of crash or something in the little tank from messing around i will not affect the display. (Got a aiptasia(sp) on some LR and put it down there just for the heck of it) The guy at the LFS noticed and even after he broke it off the rock i asked if i could have it, he gave me the craziest look!

[Mudbeaver]

Hi ok well first i applaud your effort for your Macro-Algae biotope, but i had a 65 G Macro-Algae for a mandarin and it clean it out in a week.So a 10 G for a mandarin is too small if this is your plan. Pods multiply because of algae availability, not macro-Algae, tha macro-Algae are for creating habitat for other creature like seahorses, anglers, scorpio, leaf fish, pipe fish and such. They use the macro to hide not to feed. For pods and rotifers its rubbles in a tube or pile with an air hose and air stone, and some food. when the food disapear the population crashes and the population vanishes. Or if its eaten away like with a mandarin the mandarin will starve, unless you train him to eat mysis shrimp. I wouldn't try it, your just gona kill the little guy for nothing and loose money. Think about it. And feeding it every day 3 to 4 times a day, because they eat constantly you see..... :worried2:

[Adamw327]

Pods eat Macro, and why would i want to try and keep the Mandy in the same tank i am trying to raise its food source :)

[Mudbeaver]

Pods eat Macro, and why would i want to try and keep the Mandy in the same tank i am trying to raise its food source :)

I think you misread my answer i was giving you an example of mine what i did and what happened to me with my mandarin in a bigger size tank than your a 55G and it didn't work. Plus NO pods will eat Phytoplankton and other plankton not Macro-algae, Macro meaning "big" algae, as oppose to Micro meaning " small"

"the copepods Copepods are typically 1 to 2 millimetres (0.04 to 0.08 in) long, with a teardrop-shaped body and large antennae. Although like other crustaceans they have an armoured exoskeleton, they are so small that in most species this thin armour, and the entire body, is almost totally transparent. "

Rotifers fall prey to many animals, such as copepods, fish (e.g. herring, salmon), bryozoa, comb jellies, jellyfish, and starfish

Most rotifers are around 0.1–0.5 mm long (although their size can range from 50 μm to over 2 millimeters)The rotifers (Rotifera, commonly called wheel animals) make up a phylum of microscopic and near-microscopic pseudocoelomate

[Adamw327]

Well i believe you, but two different sites claimed that certain macros like ulva and chaeto were good pod food sources...

I did do a lot of reaserch and i stacked a lot of rubble on one side of my display, about 50 lbs of LR to keep the fish away from all the pods and just allow him to graze around the outside and inside. I say him because i already purchased one and he is a male. 10$ for 500 pods and the mandy from reefs2go. I already had pods allover my tank but the bag of 500 has kept him busy the last few days. I have multiple types of frozen food to try out over the next month or so, and i work for a LFS that will care for him if i find i can not

[Mudbeaver]

Well i believe you, but two different sites claimed that certain macros like ulva and chaeto were good pod food sources...

I did do a lot of reaserch and i stacked a lot of rubble on one side of my display, about 50 lbs of LR to keep the fish away from all the pods and just allow him to graze around the outside and inside. I say him because i already purchased one and he is a male. 10$ for 500 pods and the mandy from reefs2go. I already had pods allover my tank but the bag of 500 has kept him busy the last few days. I have multiple types of frozen food to try out over the next month or so, and i work for a LFS that will care for him if i find i can not

I'm not saying at the later stage of their development they wont touch it but they don't grow and reproduce on it. They mostly use it to hide and eat micro algae tha passes their way that is certain, if you use a phyto product you ca help generate some but in a very limited and of poor quality and very skinny kind of pods. usually one strand too. if you have a fuge with different ways of feeding you'll have different strand if you buy a sample and feed them different foods you'll get fat pods to nurrish you fish.The whole thing is a learning experience and that the point isn't it. Their's a good receipy for pod with pancake mix, yeast and sugar i have to look it up but its great and produces tons af pods too much for your needs, but for an industry, but cutting it down should be interesting wouldn't. try hiding that from mom lol.

[tektite]

Both of you are actually correct. The problem here is the generic term "pods".

Copepods, the smallest pods, are the ones that mandarins eat. They live in macroalgae as shelter, and eat microalgae such as phytoplankton.

Larger pods such as amphipods, that get up to 3/8" or so, will both live in and eat macroalgae. However, they are not the preferred food of mandarins. Mandarins may eat them if they find small ones, but copepods are their real prey.

[Adamw327]

Both of you are actually correct. The problem here is the generic term "pods".

Copepods, the smallest pods, are the ones that mandarins eat. They live in macroalgae as shelter, and eat microalgae such as phytoplankton.

Larger pods such as amphipods, that get up to 3/8" or so, will both live in and eat macroalgae. However, they are not the preferred food of mandarins. Mandarins may eat them if they find small ones, but copepods are their real prey.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I have now added 3 different companies pod combinations over the last 4 months. Oddly enough the pod pack that came WITH the Mandy had more large size pods than the others i have received.

Just watching my rubble pile with lights on you can spot multiple different types and sizes of pods, as well as mysis shrimp, and i know i can keep up with the Mandy for now in the DT, and have heard its around the 1 year mark that the main population tends to crash, so i am hoping to have mastered breeding them by that point, and may order a few more bags of pods or chaeto combinations to keep the DT stocked while i mess around with this 10g.

Someone needs to master pod cultivation and sell people contracted deliveries so they can keep the harder blenny species without any problems. I dream of opening my own LFS and if i ever do this is something i would definatly want to try and offer my customers

Can you recommend "the best" over the counter food for them (the pods)? I really dont want to cultivate phyto, to feed the Rotifers, to feed the pods, to feed a fish... I have a few zoas in the display i will start target feeding soon, and would love to be able to feed them something the pods would be able to eat also, and then only need one product to add to the pod tank as well as the display. I have enough "fish stuff" as my wife would say :) :p

Thanks again for all your advice and help

[Mudbeaver]

Well i believe you, but two different sites claimed that certain macros like ulva and chaeto were good pod food sources...

I did do a lot of reaserch and i stacked a lot of rubble on one side of my display, about 50 lbs of LR to keep the fish away from all the pods and just allow him to graze around the outside and inside. I say him because i already purchased one and he is a male. 10$ for 500 pods and the mandy from reefs2go. I already had pods allover my tank but the bag of 500 has kept him busy the last few days. I have multiple types of frozen food to try out over the next month or so, and i work for a LFS that will care for him if i find i can not

Both of you are actually correct. The problem here is the generic term "pods".

Copepods, the smallest pods, are the ones that mandarins eat. They live in macroalgae as shelter, and eat microalgae such as phytoplankton.

Larger pods such as amphipods, that get up to 3/8" or so, will both live in and eat macroalgae. However, they are not the preferred food of mandarins. Mandarins may eat them if they find small ones, but copepods are their real prey.

Ok thanks for the precision we learn every day don't we glad to hear it to cause my fuge that i'm building with two rubble colum for pods and the special buckets for rotifer production that info is very usefull. i"m keeping an eye on this thread always stuff you can use in the future. Good topic putting it as excellent every time i learn something.

[Adamw327]

Also i noticed a certain type of them goes in and out of my encrusting sponges flow holes, is there some symbiotic relationship going on there?

[Mudbeaver]

Also i noticed a certain type of them goes in and out of my encrusting sponges flow holes, is there some symbiotic relationship going on there?

AH yes i red somewhere that they clean the sponges of micro algae they where doing the same in my fuge and my sponge where so beautifull and growing very well. They enter all the small cavity and sometime i'm told uses them as nursery for eggs. i didn't know they had eggs until then., anyway their seems to be 300 or something species of those things lol so ya.... My red sponge where great my yellow sponge where diying i had to put them in the sump dark and away from light.

[tektite]

Someone has mastered pod cultivation lol. They're called Algagen, sell many different types of pods including tisbe, moina salina, pseudodiaptomus, parvocalanus, etc. They also sell a lot of other items like many kinds of live phyto, macroalgae, rotifers, etc.

The problem with raising copepods is that almost all types require live phytoplankton. Raising enough phyto for a significant amount of copepods is a LOT of work and space.

The best over the counter food is live phytoplankton such as DT's. It gets very expensive very fast though. Just the way it is.

Keep in mind a 55 gallon is a VERY small tank for a mandarin. A 10 gallon tank will not be able to produce enough pods for it. Adult mandarins can eat 1000's of pods in a single day. "1 year mark" for the population crash? Completely inapplicable to your situation here. You're not going for a population crash, rather a depletion of pods entirely. Mandarins can live for months slowly starving to death unfortunately. Many beginners unfamiliar with how a healthy mandarin appears can think the mandarin is OK when it is not. Looking at the mandarin, it should have a completely rounded body, especially its belly. You should not be able to see the line of its spine through its body, if you can the mandarin is very underfed. A pinched stomach of any kind is a terrible sign of starvation as well. It can be hard to see their stomach with the way they move most of the time, you need to keep a very close eye on them. A healthy mandarin should look like a little blimp, almost completely round from head to tail. Looking at them from above or the side can be hard to tell if they're OK or not, looking from below is the best. Above second best, but it can be deceptive.

This mandarin was EXTREMELY hungry, but looked OK from above. Its stomach was completely hollow.
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6071.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6071.jpg.html)
Still can't see the stomach and how empty it is, but note that its main body is skinnier than its tail. Bad sign of beginning starving.
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6054.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6054.jpg.html)

Healthy mandarins. Note the blimp-shaped body of the male. The female's stomach was full of eggs, hence her looking like she swallowed a bowling ball.
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6259copy.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6259copy.jpg.html)
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6257copy.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6257copy.jpg.html)
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6244copy.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6244copy.jpg.html)

[Mudbeaver]

Someone has mastered pod cultivation lol. They're called Algagen, sell many different types of pods including tisbe, moina salina, pseudodiaptomus, parvocalanus, etc. They also sell a lot of other items like many kinds of live phyto, macroalgae, rotifers, etc.

The problem with raising copepods is that almost all types require live phytoplankton. Raising enough phyto for a significant amount of copepods is a LOT of work and space.

The best over the counter food is live phytoplankton such as DT's. It gets very expensive very fast though. Just the way it is.

Keep in mind a 55 gallon is a VERY small tank for a mandarin. A 10 gallon tank will not be able to produce enough pods for it. Adult mandarins can eat 1000's of pods in a single day. "1 year mark" for the population crash? Completely inapplicable to your situation here. You're not going for a population crash, rather a depletion of pods entirely. Mandarins can live for months slowly starving to death unfortunately. Many beginners unfamiliar with how a healthy mandarin appears can think the mandarin is OK when it is not. Looking at the mandarin, it should have a completely rounded body, especially its belly. You should not be able to see the line of its spine through its body, if you can the mandarin is very underfed. A pinched stomach of any kind is a terrible sign of starvation as well. It can be hard to see their stomach with the way they move most of the time, you need to keep a very close eye on them. A healthy mandarin should look like a little blimp, almost completely round from head to tail. Looking at them from above or the side can be hard to tell if they're OK or not, looking from below is the best. Above second best, but it can be deceptive.

This mandarin was EXTREMELY hungry, but looked OK from above. Its stomach was completely hollow.
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6071.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6071.jpg.html)
Still can't see the stomach and how empty it is, but note that its main body is skinnier than its tail. Bad sign of beginning starving.
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6054.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6054.jpg.html)

Healthy mandarins. Note the blimp-shaped body of the male. The female's stomach was full of eggs, hence her looking like she swallowed a bowling ball.
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6259copy.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6259copy.jpg.html)
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6257copy.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6257copy.jpg.html)
http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv244/stargate985/IMG_6244copy.jpg (http://s688.photobucket.com/user/stargate985/media/IMG_6244copy.jpg.html)

I concour with my college tektite here We've discuss this on this thread to show you the potential problems of housing ONE of your many fish you'll be responsable for. We cannot garantee success in keeping alive this particular fish despite all the good will your willing to put in it. We can't stop you from trying but i have nothing more to say or any other advice on how to keep one alive under these conditions. What i'm sure of is that you'll spen lots of time and effort and most important money on an impossible task. It will live for a while , may be a few month, a year before he dies but ultimatly he'll starve to death.

[Adamw327]

Well i wouldn't say he is a blimp like in the above picture, but he is rounded. He is also swimming around the tank and i have a clear view of his belly.

I will keep an eye on him. I talked to someone at my store and they are using a new food source that is proving to be successful. I cant recall the name at this time but i plan to look into it

Thanks again for the advice

[drej424]

How can you tell if your Mandarin is eating? I have a lot of pods and some look like they jump on my mandarin! I think mine looks too thin. I've slowly target fed some oyster eggs and fish roe, too. But I can't tell for certain that my fish is eating.

[Adamw327]

Contribute to the thread or make your own, when you see food go in his mouth and not be spit back up, he is eating. If you cant tell? He is not eating.

[drej424]

Gee, thanks for the nice comment... I was under the impression this was your first mandarin, too. And you're looking into other food sources? Like oyster eggs and fish roe? Also, some pods are too small to see - the reason for my question. Definitely seems right on topic to me!

[wonderz]

You have to train your mandarin to eat oyster eggs, fish roe, etc. You might be one of the lucky one that got one that is already trained. But usually they only go for live food. If you can see your mandarin pecking at your glass or rock and you can see pods crawling around, you should be okay. As someone mentioned, mandarin eats 1000s of pod A DAY. So you need tons of pods.

If you are keeping one in a small tank, you definitely want to train your mandrain to eat prepared food. A lot of people them while it is in QT. You feed them both live pods and prepared food like nutramar ova. Then slowly completely transition them to prepared food.

[drej424]

Thanks, wonderz. My mandarin is picking at things constantly. I have it in a 10G with pods, sand, and a variety of macro. But I haven't noticed any diminishing population of pods in the tank. I picked up the nutramar today. I've also been adding phycopure to the tank to feed the pods.

I have an established 150 mixed reef tank that will be the home to my mandarin after it's fat and healthy. Is it necessary to train it to eat other foods? Is there anything else I should be doing for this macro/pod tank?

[wonderz]

Thanks, wonderz. My mandarin is picking at things constantly. I have it in a 10G with pods, sand, and a variety of macro. But I haven't noticed any diminishing population of pods in the tank. I picked up the nutramar today. I've also been adding phycopure to the tank to feed the pods.

I have an established 150 mixed reef tank that will be the home to my mandarin after it's fat and healthy. Is it necessary to train it to eat other foods? Is there anything else I should be doing for this macro/pod tank?

Sounds like you have a great start. Once you have your mandarin trained in your 10G, you can move it to your 150G. The key is make sure it eats at least one type of prepared food so it does not starve. It will learn to eat other food once its in the bigger tank and see other fish pick on other type of food. mandarin are pretty hardy other than their food requirement.

I think some people might suggest you put your mandarin to your 150G right away since it might have more pods than your 10G. But imo it is better that you train it first at the 10G since it will be harder to train in the bigger tank. But it is up to you.

[drej424]

Thanks for the input. I think I will move him as soon as he looks round, like the pix above. Then I'll keep the 10g strictly for macro & pods.