Do we really know anything about ich?!

[Mhayes462]

I've read up on this a LOT. Supposedly, if your dt does not have ich AND your new fish was properly quarantined and treated, then there is no way ich can be present. Right? If your new fish gets ich in the dt, then the dt had ich. Right. Supposedly no fish is immune to ich. So if the fish in dt did not show ich, then how did the new fish get ich if said fish was in quarantine with copper treatment for 6 weeks? Here's the whole deal. In my dt I have two clowns, a banghaii cardinal, purple firefish, yellow watchman goby, and hoevens wrasse. None of which have ever shown signs of ich. The clowns and cardinal I've had for over a year, wrasse and ywg for 9 months and firefish for 3 months. I work at a fish store and had my eye on a powder blue tang. I watched one for over a week and never saw a spot on it. Took it home and put it in quarantine with copper just to be safe. Kept the copper at optimal levels with a test kit. It did wonderful and ate great. Never saw one spot on it. After 5 weeks I put it in dt. Now after about a month it has white spots. So my question now is. HOW?! If everything I've been told is true, then this fish pulled off a miracle and got ich from the air. I don't want to hear about ich magnets, because if all the facts are true, then ich has to be present to get it. Any ideas? I think we as a hobby just don't really know jack s$!t about this nuisance.

[Osteoicthyes]

The parasite is a living organism. It has to be introduced into the tank for it to get there. This means it was brought in on a fish or in some water that was introduced into the tank. It cannot complete its lifecycle without hosting in a fish. It does not appear out of thin air.....

By the way, which copper treatment did you use? Is there anything in your Qt/hospital tank that contained calcium? If so, the copper will not stay in solution and perform properly.

[Mhayes462]

Ok, so if no ich in the dt and no ich on the new fish after 6 wks (plenty of time for it to go through a cycle and show itself on the fish) then where did the ich come from? I used Cupramine and kept the levels in check with a copper test kit. Yeah, my salt contains calcium. Lol

[HumbleFish]

Were all your other fish QT and prophylactically treated like the PBT? If not, one of them might have been harboring the parasite. Just because you can't "see" Ich doesn't mean it's not there - it can live in the gills. A PBT has a very thin mucous coat, and would be very likely to "show" Ich under the skin if put in an infected tank.

[Mrscribbled]

Any coral, live rock, macro algae added without quarantine?


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[andyrm66]

Any coral, live rock, macro algae added without quarantine?


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Bingo. And without the original fish being run through copper your DT prob had Ich. Just didn't see it.

[roenicknewf]

I think we know enough about it ,,just a lot of misunderstood information about it out there ..

[wakerider017]

This is an easy one. You most likely had ich in your DT and your fish did not show signs. Certain species are more resistant to the disease than others.

Tangs seem to be especially susceptible.

Also, I think it is recommended now that the fish undergo a minimum 10 week QT to rid it of 'outlier' ich parasites.

My fish undergo 10-12 weeks in copper just to be sure, and I'm going to begin QT all inverts and coral for 10-12 weeks.

[Sk8r]

I would likewise reconsider your fish sources, and, just to help your fish out, be particularly careful to maintain decent alkalinity---it helps them keep their slime coats.

In the last 9 years, I've only had one new fish manifest ich, and that was a very weak, easy case of it. Some dealers have a better anti-problem program in place than others, and that will also minimize your chances of having a problem fish.

I don't treat any fish until it's proven whether it has anything at all, and precisely what it has. Copper can weaken a fish's health overall, and should be used only where parasites are clearly present.

[bobkill]

Frustrating huh! It happend to me 5 weeks ago now I am almost fallow and got a qt sent up-

[wakerider017]

I would likewise reconsider your fish sources, and, just to help your fish out, be particularly careful to maintain decent alkalinity---it helps them keep their slime coats.

In the last 9 years, I've only had one new fish manifest ich, and that was a very weak, easy case of it. Some dealers have a better anti-problem program in place than others, and that will also minimize your chances of having a problem fish.

I don't treat any fish until it's proven whether it has anything at all, and precisely what it has. Copper can weaken a fish's health overall, and should be used only where parasites are clearly present.

And what about that one healthy fish that harbors ich sight unseen while in QT?

Drop him in your DT and you are now infested..

Seems too risky to me. You may have had luck using your method, but I am not keen on tearing down my whole system again.

[HumbleFish]

And what about that one healthy fish that harbors ich sight unseen while in QT?

You should still notice symptoms (twitching, rubbing, rapid breathing) if: a) You're an observant person. b) Can/will spend enough time watching your fish in QT. Everyone else should prophylactically treat (as I do). TT is a great, chemical-free (albeit time consuming) method IMO.

[coral_lagoon]

I've had good luck with quaranting my fish,and haven't introduced ich in my tanks at my homes ( knock on wood). I know the slightest mistake, error is all it takes to introduce it..

At my business I have a 125 gallon tank which has been running for 10 years. Some of the fish are that old too. Those fish I did not quarantine . Since it is a Fish Only System. I did douse Cupramine to treat ich before. It was easy since there is no corals, inverts to worry about. No catching your fish etc too. No need in having your tank go fallow for 12 weeks. No more ick all gone that was it.. The tank just has a wet/dry sytem,and a good skimmer. The fish are healthy always looking for me to feed them..

With that being said,the more I think about my FO system. The more I think this is the way to go. This is just me though because I like keeping fish more than corals, inverts. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying don't qurantine,but sometimes chit happens,and things get overlooked. That is all..

[Mhayes462]

Again, I have read many times that NO fish is immune from ich and eventually EVERY fish will fall victim. So how were my fish in dt not showing it if it was there?

[rc4kinu]

Most likely your existing fishes' immune system was keeping up with the ich strain they all had with good husbandry. When you introduced your tang, things changed. Stress from existing fish and going through Qt probably made the tang more susceptible thus the first to show signs of infection. Fallow and treatment of fish is in order for you.

[HumbleFish]

Most likely your existing fishes' immune system was keeping up with the ich strain they all had with good husbandry. When you introduced your tang, things changed. Stress from existing fish and going through Qt probably made the tang more susceptible thus the first to show signs of infection. Fallow and treatment of fish is in order for you.

+1 Ich continued it's life cycle by feeding off the gills, thus no visible symptoms. The parasite couldn't penetrate the fishes slime coat, thus no visible symptoms. People who know they have Ich and practice "Ich management" report going months, even years, without seeing symptoms. Then one day something unexpected happens (extended power loss) and all hell breaks loose.

[jamesbaur13]

Again, I have read many times that NO fish is immune from ich and eventually EVERY fish will fall victim. So how were my fish in dt not showing it if it was there?

IMO it's not fatal and truly healthy fish will rarely exhibit even a sign of it while it is present. I think a lot of misconceptions about ich are based off of what people can see. The fact is, the parasite itself is not visible. The white spots are not ich, what you are seeing is the secondary infection which comes from the lesion created by the parasite. If the fish has a strong immune system the spots never develop. If the fish has a weak immune system, he's covered. The deaths to the fish are thus attributed to the ich, when in all reality it is more likely attributed to the weakened immune system. It's also important to point out that there are some rare infections are just flat out difficult to deal with even if you are in perfect health. This holds true for ourselves as well as our finned friends.

(IMO) Spots by themselves are not a major concern. Pale coloration and reduction in activity coupled with the spots are a major concern... it's an indication the infection has become systemic and needs to be treated with antibiotics. Copper, Hypo, Tank Transfer will likely not save a fish when it has reached this point. Eliminating the vessel for the infection is by no means a bad idea, but realize it will have limited results.

[RxMike]

I just don't understand how no reef safe medication for ich exists. I also don't understand why companies like Seachem do not invest in their Research and development service line. Finding a real cure for Ich that is reef safe would provide a hell of return on investment. In an age where we can transplant heart , and just about every other organ It is hard to believe a reef safe cure for ich does not exist. hmmmm just play along with the conspiracy theory.

Those of you who are able to QT inverts, corals, macro algae. I am so impressed by your discipline. I recently purchased some pods prior to go on a business trip. I came home to find a fish with ICH. Could the ich have come in with the copepods I got from an online vendor?

[Mhayes462]

+1 ^

[HumbleFish]

I don't think companies such as Seachem have an extensive enough R&D to develop a reef safe med for Ich. It would probably take some university with a strong Marine Biology program. Maybe Seachem could fine-tune whatever they develop and then market it.

[coral_lagoon]

I just don't understand how no reef safe medication for ich exists. I also don't understand why companies like Seachem do not invest in their Research and development service line. Finding a real cure for Ich that is reef safe would provide a hell of return on investment. In an age where we can transplant heart , and just about every other organ It is hard to believe a reef safe cure for ich does not exist. hmmmm just play along with the conspiracy theory.

Those of you who are able to QT inverts, corals, macro algae. I am so impressed by your discipline. I recently purchased some pods prior to go on a business trip. I came home to find a fish with ICH. Could the ich have come in with the copepods I got from an online vendor?

That would be nice. Or a vaccine we can give to each of our fish. I think it will happen one of these days..

[DrPat]

I just don't understand how no reef safe medication for ich exists. I also don't understand why companies like Seachem do not invest in their Research and development service line. Finding a real cure for Ich that is reef safe would provide a hell of return on investment. In an age where we can transplant heart , and just about every other organ It is hard to believe a reef safe cure for ich does not exist. hmmmm just play along with the conspiracy theory.

Those of you who are able to QT inverts, corals, macro algae. I am so impressed by your discipline. I recently purchased some pods prior to go on a business trip. I came home to find a fish with ICH. Could the ich have come in with the copepods I got from an online vendor?

Mike there have been many attempts through out the last 40 years at a reef safe treatment for external parasites. Unfortunately in all probability it is impossible to develope since parasites are inverts .Vaccines development is very expensive and time consuming . If the food fish aquaculture industry needs a vaccine then there might be a chance but I doubt it will happen since fish reach market size early in life.
As for the pods yes the water they are in can transport ick.
Most closed systems will eventually develop one or two strains of ick and the fish can develop resistance. This is why I advocate to stock the reef tank with all the inverts first and then add fish 1 or 2 at a time after a 90 day qt. Most people don't have the discipline or the space to do it .