Methods to improve coral coloration

[tylersarah]

First off I would like to state that I conquered my high phosphate/bryopsis problem and the phosphates are currently .03 ppm. :bounce3:

Now, I'm going to tackle my pastel and dull colored corals. Here's the tank:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/935386_10151557095758114_216607756_n.jpg

Alk 9.0 dKH
Ca 450 ppm
Mg 1500

3 - AI Sol Blues over the 4' 120 gal tank

And the corals I would especially like to improve:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/943510_10151580796508114_571860818_n.jpg
Now if this one was a color I can't tell what it would be, maybe flesh tone is it's color, I don't know. It looked like this when we purchased it and the thing grows like a weed.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/6765_10151580796463114_1435260276_n.jpg
Now, the orange bird's nest, is there even such a thing? The first couple days this coral entered the tank it was bright purple with green tips, now not so much.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/934975_10151580796413114_2106279193_n.jpg
Not a terrible offender, but I would like to pump up the green.

Two methods come to mind supplements and T-5 supplemental lighting.

We thought about adding a strip of T-5 lights, but question whether it's really necessary or helpful.

The TOTM supplements Lugol's and Brightwell Aquatics Aminos. Thought about giving that a shot, his tank couldn't be more beautiful. There's also Elo's Omega Acid that I've read about. I'm not one to add anything I can't test for.

Thoughts and opinions welcome!

[captjab]

Sorry I can't help, but I'll trade you my pale sps for yours. If I had to take a guess, I'd say up your feeding. Fish poo is the #1 coral food. You just have to stay on top of your nutrient exporting, or you'll be fighting brown corals. There is a fine line there and I haven't seemed to hit it yet, my corals stay hungry.
Edit; After looking at your pics again I only see 3 fish. If that's all you have it'll be pretty tough to build up your nutrients without wasted food settling at the bottom of the tank. You may want to add a pair of clowns or some other small fish. I could be way off here. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

[Fitz19d]

I see 5?

[tylersarah]

I do have a decent fish load:
Pair mated Percula clownfish
Large Muelleri Butterflyfish
Falco Hawkfish
Starry Blenny
Bristletooth Tank
Fairy Wrasse

I feed 2-3x per day for the butterflyfish, I would think that's sufficient.

[captjab]

Your right. That's plenty of feeding IMO.
Sorry, I just couldn't see the smaller ones looking at it on my phone.

[cugly]

Check out some zeovit additives. ..you dont have to use full zeovit theres some to enhance color and works well..

[Dugless]

Looks like you have your water parameters dialed in. Keep them stable. Don't feed more, just keep everything stable. It will take time, maybe even months, but if you keep the major items (Alk, Cal, PO4, NO3) in line, you should see color return. This is obviously easier said than done. I wouldn't start dosing or messing with any additional supplements, in my book that is just asking for more trouble. Stay on top of your water changes and keep things simple! Just be patient. Good luck.

[tylersarah]

Looks like you have your water parameters dialed in. Keep them stable. Don't feed more, just keep everything stable. It will take time, maybe even months, but if you keep the major items (Alk, Cal, PO4, NO3) in line, you should see color return. This is obviously easier said than done. I wouldn't start dosing or messing with any additional supplements, in my book that is just asking for more trouble. Stay on top of your water changes and keep things simple! Just be patient. Good luck.

That's always been my methodology. But, since these corals have been in the tank over a year and are growing like mad, but aren't vivid in color I can't help think, is it the lights? Do they need some iodine?

[Dugless]

I would never suggest dosing any kind of trace element since a proper water change routine is more than capable to maintain necessary levels. More importantly, you won't overdose anything by following this method. Are any of the SPS corals wild or maricultured pieces?

Take this for what it's worth. I recently put a birdsnest in the frag portion of my sump and it paled/bleached very similarly to what your photos show in just 2 weeks time. The display is lit by 250w radiums, but the frag portion by a kessil LED.

My brother has tried frags of this same birdsnest with the same bleached result under an 8 bulb ati fixture. I can only assume the lighting was the reason for the poor response. Again, no real data, just an observation.

[danil]

I bet your nitrates are 0. Your corals need more nutrients. You can feed more or use some supplements. I would recommend to try out fuel by seachem. Keep phosphates low though.

[tylersarah]

Yes, my nitrates are 0. I won a bottle of Seachem Fuel in a raffle and it ended up in the garbage before I even opened it. It contained an ingredient that either clams or chaeto doesn't agree with, although, I cannot recall.

[tylersarah]

One interesting note is the orange birdsnest connected into the purple birdsnest behind it. The corals meet in the middle but the colors of each remain the same, I didn't know they do that.

[tylersarah]

Check out some zeovit additives. ..you dont have to use full zeovit theres some to enhance color and works well..

What basic Zeovit additives would you recommend? I looked at them on BRS and found the whole thing extremely confusing.

[tylersarah]

I would never suggest dosing any kind of trace element since a proper water change routine is more than capable to maintain necessary levels. More importantly, you won't overdose anything by following this method. Are any of the SPS corals wild or maricultured pieces?

Take this for what it's worth. I recently put a birdsnest in the frag portion of my sump and it paled/bleached very similarly to what your photos show in just 2 weeks time. The display is lit by 250w radiums, but the frag portion by a kessil LED.

My brother has tried frags of this same birdsnest with the same bleached result under an 8 bulb ati fixture. I can only assume the lighting was the reason for the poor response. Again, no real data, just an observation.

Yes, some of them are wild and maricultured.

[AcroporAddict]

First off, please do not take this as a smart remark, because it is not intended as one, but the best bet at improving your corals color is get rid of the AI Sol Blues. I had six Sol blues over a Marineland 300 DD all SPS tank, and sorry to say, but IME there are inherent limitations to acropora colors from a pure blue/white LED combination. All LED manufacturers are turning to multi color LEDs right now.

Your best bet is to upgrade the Sol blues to the Vega Spec when it is available, or sell the Sol Blues and go straight T5 or metal halide. If you are determined to stay with LEDs, I would look at a multi color setup like the Radion Pro or similar.

I tried Ecotech Radion G1s, and they were a big improvement over the Sol blues, but just not enough of an improvement. I switched about 5 months ago back to 400 watt Radium (20K) metal halides, and the SPS colors are starting to pop.

I seriously doubt additives will do much for your colors as long as your light basis is only white and blue/royal blue LEDs. You might try supplementing as you said, but having to do that only illustrates the limits of the Sol Blue lights.

[tylersarah]

First off, please do not take this as a smart remark, because it is not intended as one, but the best bet at improving your corals color is get rid of the AI Sol Blues. I had six Sol blues over a Marineland 300 DD all SPS tank, and sorry to say, but IME there are inherent limitations to acropora colors from a pure blue/white LED combination. All LED manufacturers are turning to multi color LEDs right now.

Your best bet is to upgrade the Sol blues to the Vega Spec when it is available, or sell the Sol Blues and go straight T5 or metal halide. If you are determined to stay with LEDs, I would look at a multi color setup like the Radion Pro or similar.

I tried Ecotech Radion G1s, and they were a big improvement over the Sol blues, but just not enough of an improvement. I switched about 5 months ago back to 400 watt Radium (20K) metal halides, and the SPS colors are starting to pop.

I seriously doubt additives will do much for your colors as long as your light basis is only white and blue/royal blue LEDs. You might try supplementing as you said, but having to do that only illustrates the limits of the Sol Blue lights.

Yes, I am aware of the limitations of the AI Sol Blues. I'm sure you can understand, it's an expensive upgrade and nothing is 'broken.' What is Vega Spec? I prefer LEDs because we don't have central air and halides produce too much heat.

[tylersarah]

Our LFS has some kind of pre-order special for Radion Pros on Memorial Day, I'll check that out. I've read 2 Radion Pros is sufficient over a 4' tank, we didn't like 2 AI Sols over it, but apparently each Radion comfortably spans an area of 30" square.

[AcroporAddict]

Yes, I am aware of the limitations of the AI Sol Blues. I'm sure you can understand, it's an expensive upgrade and nothing is 'broken.' What is Vega Spec? I prefer LEDs because we don't have central air and halides produce too much heat.

AquaIllumination makes another LED unit called the Vega, which is a multicolor LED. The Sol Blue is upgradable to Vega specs. Look at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.aquaillumination.com/

Upgrade kit specifics:

http://www.aquaillumination.com/accessories/upgradekit.html

Upgrading from Sol Blue to Vega would be more cost effective than buying Radion Pros, but the Pros are nice as well. Some research here on Reef Central would turn up people's experience with the Vega.

[Dmoody]

Keep the SOLs I think it's a great looking tank. One if the nicest I've seen. Can't help with coral coloration but if I had to guess try to provide as much of a natural food source as possible. I use coral smoothie(kind of pricey if you ask me though)

[tylersarah]

AquaIllumination makes another LED unit called the Vega, which is a multicolor LED. The Sol Blue is upgradable to Vega specs. Look at the bottom of the page here:

http://www.aquaillumination.com/

Upgrade kit specifics:

http://www.aquaillumination.com/accessories/upgradekit.html

Upgrading from Sol Blue to Vega would be more cost effective than buying Radion Pros, but the Pros are nice as well. Some research here on Reef Central would turn up people's experience with the Vega.

Ah, now we're talking. I will do more research and seriously consider this option. Thank you!

[tylersarah]

Keep the SOLs I think it's a great looking tank. One if the nicest I've seen. Can't help with coral coloration but if I had to guess try to provide as much of a natural food source as possible. I use coral smoothie(kind of pricey if you ask me though)

Well that's a nice compliment, thank you. We love our tank, but I work from home a lot and I can't help but to critique it often. I feed blackworms daily and I make my own frozen seafood concoction that I also feed 1-2x/day.

[Zobp]

Its your lack of color spectrum, Like AcroporaAddict stated the lights need to be upgraded/changed.

Tank is looking good.

[tmz]

I think lighing plays a bigger role in color than any trace elements you may choose to add. O nitrogen could indicate a nitrogen defficiency but that's unlikely in a fed tank.

[AcroporAddict]

Its your lack of color spectrum, Like AcroporaAddict stated the lights need to be upgraded/changed.

Tank is looking good.
I like your tank as well, and my advise about the lighting is based on your current equipment.

IMO, pure white/blue only LED lighting comes with certain tradeoffs, less SPS coral color potential being one of them. But also with advantages, like less electric consumption, cooler running, etc.

I have two Radion G1s over a 93 cube mixed LPS/SPS reef, and while I think multi color LED lighting is great for this type tank, it just is not there yet for SPS, which is why I run halides now over my 465 gallon SPS tank, after using Sol blues and then Radions over it prior to returning to metal halides.

[dkeller_nc]

Ah, now we're talking. I will do more research and seriously consider this option. Thank you!

The owner of a very high-functioning LFS is of the opinion that keeping sps corals in a high-color state has a lot more to do with UV than with the visible spectrum of a light source. He has display tanks lit entirely with Radion XP pro fixtures, though his 400 gal acropora sale/display tank is lit with 20k metal halides.

The Radion XP pro contains 4 UV emitters; the AI Vegas currently don't include UV emitters in the standard configuration, but they do sell custom pucks for the Vegas that could be configured with 100% UV diodes.

Since you are considering upgrading your Sols to Vegas, you might want to call AI and ask if you can get a custom-configured upgrade kit that includes UV diodes in the 4 pucks. I'd suggest upgrading your Sols one at a time and see how the corals under the upgraded ones do after a month or so.

[tmz]

Personally, I still rely on halides and vho supplementation for sps with a few blue reef brtie led strips for enhancement. .
Not sure about the blue/white vs broader array led argument. At least one tank I'm familiar with has very good sps growth and color with just white and blue leds:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2258473&highlight=chinese+leds

[tylersarah]

Personally, I still rely on halides and vho supplementation for sps with a few blue reef brtie led strips for enhancement. .
Not sure about the blue/white vs broader array led argument. At least one tank I'm familiar with has very good sps growth and color with just white and blue leds:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2258473&highlight=chinese+leds

Those monticaps are stunning. It may be interesting to note that monticaps grow very quickly in my tank also, but that may be their normal established growth rate, I have never had one in a different setup.

I'm thinking I will do the Vega upgrade and see what happens to the corals. I'll make it an experiment and post my results.

Makes me wonder what other 'advanced technology' LED makers are holding out on so that we continue to upgrade in the future. Thing is, when people spend ridiculous amounts of money on equipment they are unlikely to complain about it because the need to justify the quantity of time to earn the money spent is powerful.

[JohnniG]

looks good to me ;)

[thallone]

One interesting note is the orange birdsnest connected into the purple birdsnest behind it. The corals meet in the middle but the colors of each remain the same, I didn't know they do that.

that would make some interesting frags if you can get the purple to color up.

[Raceimage]

I received a video in my last bucket of Red Sea Salt. They (Red Sea) have a 2 reef care programs one is focused on coral growth and the other on coral coloration. You may want to check their site to see if you can access the video. Very informative on what corals require for growth and how to get the best colors out of them.

[Raceimage]

coloration video is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4417

[brad_G]

I think your tank looks great! The colors don't really pop but they are still nice pieces. IMO actinic supplement might be all you need as far as extra light.

[tylersarah]

The owner of a very high-functioning LFS is of the opinion that keeping sps corals in a high-color state has a lot more to do with UV than with the visible spectrum of a light source. He has display tanks lit entirely with Radion XP pro fixtures, though his 400 gal acropora sale/display tank is lit with 20k metal halides.

The Radion XP pro contains 4 UV emitters; the AI Vegas currently don't include UV emitters in the standard configuration, but they do sell custom pucks for the Vegas that could be configured with 100% UV diodes.

Since you are considering upgrading your Sols to Vegas, you might want to call AI and ask if you can get a custom-configured upgrade kit that includes UV diodes in the 4 pucks. I'd suggest upgrading your Sols one at a time and see how the corals under the upgraded ones do after a month or so.

This is good info, thank you.

[tylersarah]

coloration video is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.redseafish.com/index.aspx?id=4417

I watched the video, they don't go into great depth with the elements because they don't want to give away secret ingredients, but what I gathered was:

*There's 70 elements in natural seawater
*31 minor and trace elements play a role in coral physiology
*Iodine fuels the color pink and is toxic above .09 ppm
*Potassium is responsible for reds
*Iron is for green/yellow

[tmz]

Most tanks including mine, fwiw, have adequate K(potassium) , Fe(Iron) , Iodine and minor an trace elements to promote good color and growth; many have more than nsw levels without dosing commercial supplements.
Overdosing these elements can be harmful ; hobby grade tests for them are largely unreliable or unreadable.
Food and salt mix via water changes generally add plenty of them.. Dosing specific elements for specific colors is not likely to get the claimed results,imo. There is no evidence it will of which I am aware. Nonetheless, folks who want to play with those supplements may enjoy that approach with care to avoid an overdose.

[tylersarah]

Yes, and I don't believe I am one of those people willing to tinker with many additives and possibly dance on the fine line of overdosing.

On a different, but related note, what would cause null/slow growth of my chaetomorpha when other macro algae grows well in the same fuge? 18 hrs of sufficient LED lighting and what I believe is proper water flow. Phosphates used to be high .14 ppm now down to .03 and nitrates have always been low.

Moving right along, I read this very informative report on light and corals:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/10/aafeature

There's many points to take with you, but what is helping me move forward is understanding UV is important and found at wavelengths < than 425nm, the red spectrum does not penetrate into great depths, violet and blue light are most important for marine photosynthetic organisms, but green is also absorbed well. Additionally, over a 10 year span LED lighting is more than free when compared to halide or T-5 setupos and most LED lighting is only utilizing the 450nm range and above, whereas an ultimately important range between 400 and 440nm is missing. There's a lot more research needed and at this point it's an educated experiment.

[cugly]

What basic Zeovit additives would you recommend? I looked at them on BRS and found the whole thing extremely confusing.
B balance , coral vitalizer for food , amino acid helps with color also...pohl extra helps with over all health and color..just dose according to directions and adjust to how your corals look got zeovit. Com for more it would give u more information on additives..goodluck

[cugly]

Ah, now we're talking. I will do more research and seriously consider this option. Thank you!
I also use AI vegas and its doin really well and im gettin great growth. .

[tmz]

On a different, but related note, what would cause null/slow growth of my chaetomorpha when other macro algae grows well in the same fuge? 18 hrs of sufficient LED lighting and what I believe is proper water flow. Phosphates used to be high .14 ppm now down to .03 and nitrates have always been low.

Competition and more/less phosphate and/or iron limitations by species,would be my guress.

[tmz]

As stated earlier , I think light plays a bigger role than trace element supplmentation in coloration of otherwise healthy corals. While I don't use leds except for highlight , I do keep sister colonies of the same coral under different lighting intensities and spectra ( radiums, 14 K phoenix, xm 15 k hamilton 14k, w/wo actinics supplementation etc.).
Sometimes, it's hard to believe the healthy corals under different light for a few months are actually the same coral.

[dowtish]

IMO, even if you upgrade to the Vegas, add 4 T5's to the mix. 2 ATI Blue plus, 1 Coral plus, 1 Purple plus. You will be one happy camper.

[tylersarah]

Well, AI won't let me customize my Vega upgrade in any way shape or form. They said to pay for the upgrade and then later pay for the customizable pucks. Then they tried to sell me on the fact they included violet in their spectrum, well, that's a different wavelength than UV. I'm not impressed.

If Radion Pros weren't equivalent to 3 months in groceries...

[tylersarah]

Here we are 5 months later and there's 2 Radion Pros hanging over the tank. Initially, my first impression was a great cyano bloom, supposedly the new red/green spectrum likes to grow algae. I've dialed it down quite a bit and I'm still battling cyano, but it's going in the right direction.

Now for the corals....most notably the orange birdsnest has turned purple with green tips, it's beautiful. The pocilliopora has gone from purple to more of a blue hue. The green acro to the right has lost color, may not be light related, the urchin likes to take it for a ride. The large beige colony in the middle has taken on a more interesting hue and my growth has been great. I'm very happy with these lights, they've added more blue to my corals and some of the pastel colors have improved.

[tylersarah]

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1374363_10151906013713114_1644794460_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1374992_10151906013523114_521300283_n.jpg

If someone wants to spend the time and message me with instructions on how to take quality pictures, I can learn.