Quarantine tank question

[dougdstecklein]

My display tank has been set up for about 2 months now. I have 20-25 thriving corals and 1 lyrtail anthia. Every time I get a new fish it develops ich and dies in a week.
I have decided to set up a 20 gal quarantine tank and don't know the best way to do it for my situation. I was going to seed the q-tank with filters from my main tank.
I feel like I need to remove the anthia from the DT for 8 weeks but it has been my only healthy fish through all of this so I am reluctant.

How should i handle this q-tank setup?

[Saltliquor]

Im in a similar situation myself, really interested in hearing some responses. Nervous to seed the QT tank filter from the display tank due to a previously sick fish in the display, or use water from the display for the QT.

[Cymonous]

I would be leery of using anything from your DT to seed your QT. I would recommend just cycling a QT or start a QT and keep a good eye on Ammonia when you add fish. Buy a Ammonia badge to help monitor the QT and already made saltwater just in-case for a change. I also recommend putting the Anthia in the QT. You need to get that DT fishless for 9+ weeks to rid the ich.

[Spyderturbo007]

I use some rubble rock from the LFS that I store in my sump. It's sacrificial, so as long as you don't mind wasting a few bucks it works great.

If you have issues with your DT, you might want to just go the water change route in the QT for fear of bringing Ich into the QT from the DT.

[dougdstecklein]

Here is my problem with that. This fish has been in the tank without symptoms for 3-4 weeks, but if it has ich and I put it in the qt isn't that introducing ich into my qt? So is it pointless to transfer the anthia to the qt unless I also plan on running copper.

[Breadman03]

Here is my problem with that. This fish has been in the tank without symptoms for 3-4 weeks, but if it has ich and I put it in the qt isn't that introducing ich into my qt? So is it pointless to transfer the anthia to the qt unless I also plan on running copper.

Not necessarily, because your anthia is already a carrier for ich, you should treat it. Copper, hypo salinity, and tank transfer are the three generally accepted treatment methods. I used tank transfer to treat my fish and it went well with no issues. However, after I was done, my neighbor was doing some work and the fumes killed 2 of my fish in the basement. :blown: Oh well, it wasn't intentional.

I just used 2 tanks with a few pieces of PVC, a powerhead, and a heater in each tank and treated the water with Prime as an assurance against ammonia. I never had a problem with ammonia.

Ich Sticky (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1996525)

[thegrun]

You need to pull all the anthias out of the DT and leave it without fish for 10 weeks. Treat the anthias and any other fish you plan on adding to the DT with either copper or low salinity for the same 10 week period.

[dougdstecklein]

I have been thinking about this all day and can't decide what to do.
I have a perfectly healthy anthia in my main tank. I don't really want to pull this fish out, put it in a QT(which needs to cycle for 4+ weeks), treat it for ten weeks, and then put it back in. Then purchase a new fish, treat it for ten weeks, and then put it in my DT. That's like 200 weeks before I get to enjoy a new fish.

I am considering setting up my QT, seeding it with my DT filters and water, adding a new fish, treating it if symptoms appear, and then adding it to my DT after 3 weeks of no symptoms.

[bnumair]

u been getting good advises but seems like u having hard time thinking about getting anthias out of ur DT. well the reason for that is even if they dont show signs of ich that doesnt mean they dont have it. ich is in ur DT and will be there as long as there is a living fish there for it to host.
my advice to u is the same as like others. please take all ur fish out of DT and put them in QT.
setup a qt and cycle it dont transfer anything between tanks and give a change for QT to be ich free. when u have the qt cycled and ready then u move the fish from dt to qt and treat then with hypo or copper. leave dt fishless for 10 weeks.
i have a sticky on top of this forum regarding QT and procedures. go through it and if u need any help just ask.
good luck

Note: if u do what u say ur going to do which is leaving current fish in DT and just treating new fish in QT chances are u will run out of this hobby in like 200 days. ich is not on the every new fish u add its in the dt that attacks and kills every new fish u get as the new fish is stressed and week and new and very much a good candidate for ich.

[cakemanPA]

Seems like you already knew what you were going to do, but you ask the question. Hoping to get the answers you wanted to hear. If you have had ich and leave a fish in the DT, you still have ich. Sooner or later it will bite you.

[dougdstecklein]

I guess I'm not sold on the fact that I can eradicate this disease from my tank completely, but having so many experienced aquarists saying the same thing is starting to change my mind.

If I do this the correct way, I want to make sure I don't introduce ich into my DT inadvertently. What do I do about new corals, shrimp, sea serpants, etc...

And what are your thoughts on the tank transfer method instead of using copper?

BTW, thank you all for the expert advice.

[dougdstecklein]

One more thing:)
When I get to the point of adding a new fish it seems like I would want to treat with copper whether the fish is showing symptoms or not to keep any diseases out of my DT.
Is this correct?

[Spyderturbo007]

There are different camps when it come to being proactive or reactive as related to treatment. Personally, I don't treat unless there is a reason to treat. But others will treat regardless.

[cakemanPA]

I prefer not to treat unless there is an issue in QT. I could be convinced to go the prazipro treatment route regardless. I won't treat copper unless there is an obvious need.

[Cymonous]

I would not treat new fish unless there are signs. If you keep a fish in QT for 4-6 weeks with no signs, then you should be fine. But, I would treat your current fish with some kind of method for Ich.

[dougdstecklein]

Okay. You guys have convinced me to take the fish out. I am first going to cycle the quarantine tank(4 weeks). When I put the anthia in the QT for 10weeks , what is the best way to keep my nitrifying bacteria alive in the 90 gal. DT?
Should I use copper or tank transfer to treat?

[GrimReefer555]

No offense, but the answers to every question you asked are in the stickies. You should read before you post a thread, as your having others do work to teach you instead of you doing work by researching. The tools are in front of you, but you don't seem to want to research or listen until someone tells you ten times. You've been on RC since '03, I've been reefing a year and already know the answers to your questions. Because I read...

[Breadman03]

I used tank transfer successfully a little while ago. There was no need to cycle. I set the first tank up at the correct temp and salinity, then slowly added in some Prime over the course of a day until I had reached the full dose. From then on, each fresh tank had the full dose of prime in it.

During that time, I fed lightly, only used smaller powerheads, and ran the temperature a little lower and had no problems. After tank transfer was complete, I set up a canister filter and used Prime in that to cycle the tank. Unfortunately, I couldn't have a cycled tank ready, but ammonia was kept at bay between Prime and water changes.

Once your tank's fallow period is over, put your fish back in. From this point on, you can prophylactically treat all new fish for ich in 12 days.

[dougdstecklein]

No offense, but the answers to every question you asked are in the stickies. You should read before you post a thread, as your having others do work to teach you instead of you doing work by researching. The tools are in front of you, but you don't seem to want to research or listen until someone tells you ten times. You've been on RC since '03, I've been reefing a year and already know the answers to your questions. Because I read...

I have done countless hours of research on this forum. Every time I have a question or problem I first try to search for the answer. I felt I had a specific situation (with a fish already being in the tank)that needed a specific answer.
I have been a member since 2003, but I have not owned a fish tank or been on this forum in over 7 years. The tank I have just set up is only 2 months old.
I'm sorry that you feel I am just being lazy.
I have read the stickies about quarantine tanks, tank setup, fish acclimation, fish compatibility, fish diseases... You name it.
I was not convinced on having my DT fallow for 10 weeks, even though I read I should. I don't believe everything i read to be the only way or even the right way for that matter. The nice community of reefers here at RC have taken time out of their day to voluntarily help me, and I appreciate that very much. I was going to go about my QT all wrong and they have convinced me to do it the right way.
I did post this in the beginners forum. Did I not?
And YES, I have taken offense!

[Spyderturbo007]

Okay. You guys have convinced me to take the fish out. I am first going to cycle the quarantine tank(4 weeks). When I put the anthia in the QT for 10weeks , what is the best way to keep my nitrifying bacteria alive in the 90 gal. DT?
Should I use copper or tank transfer to treat?

There is no reason to cycle the QT. Just grab yourself a SeaChem Ammonia Alert Badge and do regular water changes. You'll be just fine.

If you don't have anything else in the DT, you'll need to ghost feed the tank. A small amount of flake food every few days should be sufficient to keep the bacteria alive.

As for TT vs Cu treatment, I really don't know. I've never had to deal with Ich, so I can't say which is better. I would imagine that they both work just as well, so you might want to search around for which one is easier?

[GrimReefer555]

Well, it's too bad you took offense. But your saying your not convinced, then read the million threads about the issue. These reefers are probably the same ones posting the info, and then paraphrasing themselves, the stickies, or the million threads. You sound like the guy that posts info about how he didn't cycle his tank properly, had problems, posted a thread about it, then didn't want to listen. So annoying. The problem seems to be that you did it wrong from the start, and don't want to hear or believe how much work is involved in fixing it. Don't hide under the guise of a specific situation or not believing the stickies. Don't buy it for a second. I believe you read, but use the info instead of disbelieving it due to the inconvenience it causes you. Really!?

[dougdstecklein]

Thanks Breadman03. I read your ich sticky link from earlier and the tank transfer method sounds like the treatment method I will use.

[GrimReefer555]

Thanks Breadman03. I read your ich sticky link from earlier and the tank transfer method sounds like the treatment method I will use.

Hmmm... Thought you read the stickies during your "countless hours" of research. Pccchhhh. You'll be selling your system in six months or less, I'd bet on it.

[dougdstecklein]

Well, it's too bad you took offense. But your saying your not convinced, then read the million threads about the issue. These reefers are probably the same ones posting the info, and then paraphrasing themselves, the stickies, or the million threads. You sound like the guy that posts info about how he didn't cycle his tank properly, had problems, posted a thread about it, then didn't want to listen. So annoying. The problem seems to be that you did it wrong from the start, and don't want to hear or believe how much work is involved in fixing it. Don't hide under the guise of a specific situation or not believing the stickies. Don't buy it for a second. I believe you read, but use the info instead of disbelieving it due to the inconvenience it causes you. Really!?

What is your problem Grimreefer?
You have to understand, I am basically a Newby. You forget a lot in 7 years. I am excited to get fish in my tank and so are my 5 and 7 year old, so I rushed it and did things the wrong way. Yes, I needed a little extra push to convince me to do it the right way. I am now convinced. I had to come to terms with the fact that I am going to have to wait 20+ weeks to get a new fish.
Now go bother someone else.

[GrimReefer555]

What is your problem Grimreefer?
You have to understand, I am basically a Newby. You forget a lot in 7 years. I am excited to get fish in my tank and so are my 5 and 7 year old, so I rushed it and did things the wrong way. Yes, I needed a little extra push to convince me to do it the right way. I am now convinced. I had to come to terms with the fact that I am going to have to wait 20+ weeks to get a new fish.
Now go bother someone else.


I'm not trying to be a jerk. I get that your a second round newby, it's just agonizing to see the same threads over and over with questions repeatedly answered with the same info. If it's any consolation, here's some constructive input. You could get some fish in your tank sooner than you think, 20 weeks would drive us all mad. If you fallow your tank now, that'll start your 6 weeks, during which you could treat the anthia for a few weeks with the treatment of your choice, and if all goes well, add some fish with him in the QT for the duration of the fallow period. That'll get a decent batch in there in six weeks. Just make sure the anthia is all good before adding. +1 on SeaChem Prime, it'll make sure the lack of a full cycle doesn't kill your fish, as it detoxifies ammonia and nitrite. Be careful with copper, as you truly need a therapeutic level verified by a copper test kit. I treated with copper, and found low levels, as my water conditioner detoxified heavy metals. Not what you want with a copper tx. SeaChem prime does not do this, is what I use, and is a perfect product for your situation. Almost all other conditioners detoxify copper. Either way, GL

[Breadman03]

I'm not trying to be a jerk. I get that your a second round newby, it's just agonizing to see the same threads over and over with questions repeatedly answered with the same info. If it's any consolation, here's some constructive input. You could get some fish in your tank sooner than you think, 20 weeks would drive us all mad. If you fallow your tank now, that'll start your 6 weeks, during which you could treat the anthia for a few weeks with the treatment of your choice, and if all goes well, add some fish with him in the QT for the duration of the fallow period. That'll get a decent batch in there in six weeks. Just make sure the anthia is all good before adding. +1 on SeaChem Prime, it'll make sure the lack of a full cycle doesn't kill your fish, as it detoxifies ammonia and nitrite. Be careful with copper, as you truly need a therapeutic level verified by a copper test kit. I treated with copper, and found low levels, as my water conditioner detoxified heavy metals. Not what you want with a copper tx. SeaChem prime does not do this, is what I use, and is a perfect product for your situation. Almost all other conditioners detoxify copper. Either way, GL

I feel the same way, but try to remember that newbies probably can't navigate the forum as well as someone more involved. They don't know what terms to search for, and for many things, there are conflicting opinions.

Oh yeah, they also generate page views, which brings in the advertising revenue that keeps the lights on.

[Spyderturbo007]

I remember my first forum experience. Someone said to read the Stickies and I had to ask "What is a sticky". :D

[GrimReefer555]

I agree, and give him a little more leeway since he stated he had been out of the hobby for so long. I do, however, note that he has 130 posts, and based on that, I feel he has or should have the know how and/or ability to find the answer to the q himself. And yes, there are many conflicting opinions regarding many issues, but that didn't seem to be the issue today, as the thread was based on a question widely agreed on within the hobby. I do agree with you generally, and don't mean to be that guy, it's just frustrating. If he was actually reading the stickies, then yes, that's keeping the lights on. I just can't stand all the posts where it's obvious there was no genuine attempt to find the answer before asking for help. Those members are not generating as many views, none or few by researching, only views by people looking to help. I feel that's a waste of the privilege of access to the plethora of info compiled by millenniums of reefers and their experience. This is not a hobby for the lazy.

I feel the same way, but try to remember that newbies probably can't navigate the forum as well as someone more involved. They don't know what terms to search for, and for many things, there are conflicting opinions.

Oh yeah, they also generate page views, which brings in the advertising revenue that keeps the lights on.

[Silvergryphon]

Grim, stop being a dick. If you don't like the posts then ignore them or don't hang out in the New to the Hobby forum. There is no call for acting like a teenage flaming troll on here.

And remember, not everyone is forum-literate, especially since with the varous different forums set ups you see all over the place. Just because they can post, doesn't mean they know what the search for, how to filter the search results, etc.

[GrimReefer555]

Name calling, clever. Buzz off. I won't even acknowledge you or your comment any further. You are below me.

[asylumdown]

all I have to say is.. you have to fallow your tank due to ich and you've only got one fish? LUCKY! Lord I wish that was my situation when went through this process.

Analogy:
Catching, treating and QTing one fish is like learning how to play Mary Had a Little Lamb using the number keys on your phone. Catching, QTing, and treating 30 fish in an emergency situation with no cycled QT tank is like trying to play Flight of the Bumble Bee with an out of tune recorder. With your toes.

The solution is pretty simple. Two bare bottom QT tanks. With a single fish, two 5 gallon buckets will do. A tiny koralia power head, a pico sized heater, and a bucket of dirt cheap instant oean salt. Tank transfer method for 12 days (4 transfers total). The fish will react surprisingly well to this, I promise you. It will go back to behaving normally within an hour of each transfer, so long as you keep the temp and salinity matched. If you're using one powerhead and one heater, make sure you soak them in a concentrated bleach solution for a while, then rinse them really well before you put them in the new vessel. I find it's easier to just get two sets and let them dry out over night as it's just as effective as bleach. Make sure you get as little water from the tank you're transferring from in to the tank you're transferring to as humanly possible. Transfer on the morning of every third day. Use prime or amquel to keep ammonia in check, usually necessary the day before the transfer with a single fish that needs more than one feeding a day.

12 days later... you can consider that fish free from ich. I'd then get a very small tank (say 10 gallons), the smallest HOB filter you can find, and a 44 gallon plastic garbage can. I'd then mix up 44 gallons of salt water in the garbage can, and put the fish in the 10 gallon tank with a brand new, uncycled HOB filter. Test for ammonia every single day. As soon as the test starts to change colour, add enough prime to make it undetectable again then do a 50- 60% water change (you've got 44 gallons of change water. This should take 7 minutes if you set it up right and the 44 gallons will last weeks). After a few weeks, your 10 gallon QT will cycle, and you'll need to do fewer and fewer water changes. Leave your one fish in this small tank for 10-12 weeks to make sure ich is gone from your display tank, then put him back and observe to make sure there's no relapse.

During this fallow period buy:

2, 15 gallon tanks
A second koralia powerhead (if you didn't already have one)
a second heater capable of heating 15 gallons (if you didn't already have one)
super cheap lights for the 15 gallon tanks
a power bar with at least two timed outlets.
a 1 gallon bottle of prime.

Then - never put a fish in your display again without a minimum of a 12 day tank transfer protocol, and preferably 7 days of prazipro and a month of observation in a cycled QT tank again. Use the experience to teach your kids about patience, sacrifice, care, and the consequences of cutting corners.

"remember kids. When we get lazy, WE KILL NEMO".

[dougdstecklein]

Good info asylumdown! I had planned on using 5 gallon buckets for the TTM. I am in the process of setting up a QT with Biowheel filter. I have 2-450 gph koralias and 2- 300 watt heaters(hopefully this doesn't fry the fish).

I have learned a valuable lesson with this experience. It's much easier to do things right the 1st time.

[kendrid]

it's just agonizing to see the same threads over and over with questions repeatedly answered with the same info.

Simple solution: don't read them. Newbies are always going to post new ich threads. Stop reading them if it bothers you.

[MrClam]

"remember kids. When we get lazy, WE KILL NEMO".

This made me laugh.

Im not sure how 300w heaters are going to do in 5g buckets. Might be worth buying smaller heaters, as they are generally pretty cheap. Thats some serious overkill, but again this is just my intuition.

[dougdstecklein]

I forgot that I calibrated my 300 watt heaters for a couple days in a 5 gallon bucket of top off water and the temperature stayed very steady.