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Shellyfish
06/23/2013, 01:36 PM
I currently run 8 HOT5 bulbs on my 150g reef. It is 5 feet long and 24" deep. I'm looking at eventually switching to LEDs, but I don't want to go broke doing it. I'm looking for reasonably priced options, so far I've only really looked at the reefbreeders value and proton systems and the rapid onyx ones. I really knoe very little about leds. I'm just looking for something that will allow me to keep Softies and LPS without putting me in the poor house!

Thanks

CKI
06/23/2013, 01:38 PM
I know this isnt the correct size ... but i have been looking at this line of product as i am doing my first saltwater budget build .... not sure if this is even what your looking for but here ya are http://www.aquatraders.com/BeamsWork-HI-LUMEN-LED-Fixture-Quad-1W-72-TR-p/56277.htm

Shellyfish
06/23/2013, 01:51 PM
Wow, those look pretty good and the price is right. I wonder if anyone has tried them?

CKI
06/23/2013, 01:54 PM
thats what i am trying to figure out ... someone told me its not any good ... however, i wonder if its because it does not have a price tag of 500+? I hope to find out something soon on my post with that opposed to a T5HO set up .. for my tank it is only 90 for the LED's ... so far the reviews i have seen have all been good so far

Reefer94
06/23/2013, 04:58 PM
I wouldn't do those, a few reasons:

1w LEDs. Those aren't going to put out what it says they are, I can promise you that.
Only white and blue. The most successful fixtures have expanded an incorporated many more color frequencies for a reason :)
The tagline "*Specs may slightly vary from actual" - scares the crap out of me.

From what you listed, I'd say the ReefBreeders is the best "cheap" option or a DIY rig from Rapid LED.

Saving $$ now means spending $$ later. I'm sure someone will chime in with more specific info, though. don't be one of those who buys a crap fixture and then comes back to the forum trash-talking LEDs ;)

Shellyfish
06/23/2013, 07:26 PM
Thanks Reefer, that's what I'm trying to avoid. I started out in the hobby buying cheap and then having to upgrade later. I do not want to do it again. I just want to find a decent set up that isn't ridiculously priced so I can set a goal for what to save for! The beamswork models remind me a lot of the marineland ones which I've heard aren't very good.

Diver86
06/23/2013, 07:31 PM
I know your trying to save a bit of money but i really do love my ai vegas

Ron Reefman
06/23/2013, 11:50 PM
I wouldn't do those, a few reasons:

1w LEDs. Those aren't going to put out what it says they are, I can promise you that.
Only white and blue. The most successful fixtures have expanded an incorporated many more color frequencies for a reason :)
The tagline "*Specs may slightly vary from actual" - scares the crap out of me.

From what you listed, I'd say the ReefBreeders is the best "cheap" option or a DIY rig from Rapid LED.

Saving $$ now means spending $$ later. I'm sure someone will chime in with more specific info, though. don't be one of those who buys a crap fixture and then comes back to the forum trash-talking LEDs ;)

HUGE +1

Not only is it just white and blue, it's way too much white and not nearly enough blue. And it has no dimmers? Yikes! Please don't buy these and expect them to work.

OceanRevive (http://www.oceanrevivellc.com/category.php?id=3) sells their Arctic S026 and they also sell EverGrow's D120 (the original manufacturer of the Reef Breeders 'value fixture'). If you want built-in controllers, do to IT2040 (Reef Breeders Photon16... also made for them by EverGrow).These are , pardon the pun, light years better than that other junk.

kingpin9995
06/24/2013, 02:05 PM
Get the photon from Evergrow.. It's a great light, and the extra for the programming is something you will want and enjoy. I got mine about 5 months ago... Corals are growing like made, all types including sps. Changing the colors is great too. I was doing 80 blue , 50 white, and recently changed them around opposite. Love the variety. With a bit more whites and less blue the natural colors come out which is a nice change. You won't be disappointed. It's the best light out there for the money imo.. I could not be happier. I've done Halide and Kessil, and this unit will make me never go back.

Shellyfish
06/24/2013, 06:57 PM
http://www.reefsupplycanada.com/d120-dimmable-120-watt-full-spectrum-led-light-16-light/
is this the evergrow you mean?

Both this one and the oceanrevive are 16" how many would I need for my tank?

Ron Reefman
06/25/2013, 06:23 AM
IMHO asking the D120 to cover 5' is a bit more than a 2 fixture job. And 3 is more than enough to grow anything. The Arctic S026 is more likely to do the job you want. If you can hang the S026 a bit higher off the water (say 10") it should be enough. I wouldn't recommend just 2 of the D120's. But it depends on you rockscape, coral placement and types of coral. The D120 at 8" off the water and in a 24" deep tank will cover about 2' end to end. Mounted a bit higher and you can get a bit longer reach. The D120 has 10" of leds from end to end, the S026 has 14" of leds end to end. So the S026 has an extra 4" or better reach and with 2 fixtures it would be 8" and that's probably about all you'd need.

You can get either the OR Arctic S026 or the EG D120 here
http://www.oceanrevivellc.com/goods.php?id=18
Look at the much better spread of the S026 copared to the D120

Shellyfish
06/25/2013, 04:45 PM
I don't think OR ones ship to Canada :( I'll get a pic of my tank so you can have a look at the rockwork. I don't have alot of corals on the sides of the tank as my current t5 lighting is only 4 feet so I have put mostly mushrooms on the edges.

Shellyfish
06/25/2013, 06:31 PM
Ok, here are the pictures. The length of the tank is 5 feet, but as I mentioned, most of my corals are in the 4 feet in the middle, with 6 inches on either side where there is just mushrooms. The rock work is open and not up against the back, and the only thing growing back there are a lot of hairy mushrooms :) I also took a shot from the side (pardon the dirty back glass)
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/sheilaf1/0166_zpse9c10620.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/sheilaf1/media/0166_zpse9c10620.jpg.html)
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/sheilaf1/0155_zpsd7161ba3.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/sheilaf1/media/0155_zpsd7161ba3.jpg.html)
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/sheilaf1/0176_zps73e59ee6.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/sheilaf1/media/0176_zps73e59ee6.jpg.html)
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/sheilaf1/0187_zpse9b27d9c.jpg (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/sheilaf1/media/0187_zpse9b27d9c.jpg.html)

Shellyfish
06/27/2013, 07:13 PM
So would you go with 2 or 3 of the D120's?

Ron Reefman
06/28/2013, 03:54 AM
Is that tank 5' long at the front or at the back? And how long is the other shorter or longer surface?

Shellyfish
06/28/2013, 03:49 PM
It is 5 feet long at the back and 4 feet long at the shorter part

Ron Reefman
06/29/2013, 05:38 AM
2 EG D120's or RB value fixtures may just be enough. 1 OceanRevive Arctic S026 have better spread of light and would work better IMHO. But they cost a bit more.

BTW, if you ask at OR they can ship to Canada. They have a thread on another website.

zachts
06/29/2013, 04:55 PM
Buildmyleds.com strip lights would be another option in the same affordable price range. depending on the look your wanting for your light fixture.

asid61
06/29/2013, 05:45 PM
Buildmyleds.com strip lights would be another option in the same affordable price range. depending on the look your wanting for your light fixture.

They cost more.

zachts
06/29/2013, 09:29 PM
They are just another option that is in between the ridiculously priced radions and the budget Reefbreaders type. the OP didn't say they were only looking for the cheapest option that would work. Quality should be a consideration also.

advantages are that they are passively cooled and use the highly efficient and durable Luxeon LEDs, and can be dimmed either manually or using a controller. they provide very even coverage due to using one emiter per inch along the strips.

asid61
06/29/2013, 11:21 PM
They are just another option that is in between the ridiculously priced radions and the budget Reefbreaders type. the OP didn't say they were only looking for the cheapest option that would work. Quality should be a consideration also.

advantages are that they are passively cooled and use the highly efficient and durable Luxeon LEDs, and can be dimmed either manually or using a controller. they provide very even coverage due to using one emiter per inch along the strips.
That's all very true. But when you said "affordable price range" after all the talk of Reefbreeders and Evergrow, I was like "whaaat?"

Ron Reefman
06/30/2013, 04:53 AM
I really don't see passive cooling as an advantage, to me that just means 'no fans'. And I haven't seen any evidence that Luxeon leds are any better than Bridgelux leds. Besides, I can't run any of my bridgelux led fixtures (5 of them over 3 tanks) at 100% power anyway. So how much better can they be? It's like everybody says Crees are the best. Well back when leds were expensive and everybody was trying to cut corners it was a big issue. But now leds are at least reasonably priced compared to MH and t5, and they are certainly bright enough that Cree leds aren't the only good choice.

Reefer94
06/30/2013, 08:50 AM
I really don't see passive cooling as an advantage, to me that just means 'no fans'. And I haven't seen any evidence that Luxeon leds are any better than Bridgelux leds. Besides, I can't run any of my bridgelux led fixtures (5 of them over 3 tanks) at 100% power anyway. So how much better can they be? It's like everybody says Crees are the best. Well back when leds were expensive and everybody was trying to cut corners it was a big issue. But now leds are at least reasonably priced compared to MH and t5, and they are certainly bright enough that Cree leds aren't the only good choice.

I also find it interesting that people are so choosy about having the most powerful LEDs, when next to no one turns them up to 100% regardless. As for cooling, my AI has a fan that kick on when heat rises. It has yet to kick on in over a year.

Shellyfish
06/30/2013, 08:53 AM
Thanks guys! I was in contact with RSC and they said if I chose to go with 2 D120's and I found it wasn't enough, they would make me a deal on the 3rd. So I will likely go this route. I like that the blues and the whites can be controlled seperately! I just wish I hadn't just bought new bulbs for myT5 fixtures!!!!

zachts
06/30/2013, 11:18 AM
I really don't see passive cooling as an advantage, to me that just means 'no fans'. And I haven't seen any evidence that Luxeon leds are any better than Bridgelux leds. Besides, I can't run any of my bridgelux led fixtures (5 of them over 3 tanks) at 100% power anyway. So how much better can they be? It's like everybody says Crees are the best. Well back when leds were expensive and everybody was trying to cut corners it was a big issue. But now leds are at least reasonably priced compared to MH and t5, and they are certainly bright enough that Cree leds aren't the only good choice.

Ron, I must strongly dissagree with you and point out that the bridglux Button style LEds can only tolerate a heatsink temp of around 125 Farenhight and thus must be fan cooled in almost all applications we use them in for reef keeping. that is due to all the material between the chip and the heatsink. Luxeons can run with heatsink temps over 200 degrees all day long. this is due to a better thermal bond with the heatsink. if you are only comparing the LED die, even then the luxeons will be more efficient and run cooler (luxeon puts out more light at lower voltage and less heat and that is clearly evident on the data sheet)

sorry, this is getting dangerously close to arguing the which LED is better point, they all have their uses and strong points for different applications. and you've been a part of many of those discussions so no need to revisit.

RB fixtures have the advantage of being able to hand soder new chips in to replace burn ones or tweak the color, this comes at the cost of requireing fans to keep them cool.

Passively cooled is only a very, very good thing in the long run, some day your fans will wear out and fail, far before your leds, 50,000 hour life span, and once the fan fails the Leds will cook and you will notice fan failure by your lights not working or getting rapidly dimmer each day.

I don't mean to suggest that one fixture is "better" than the other, that is up to the end user to determine based on what they want for their setup. both are good fixtures cappable of growing any coral you want.

Shellyfish
09/15/2013, 07:19 PM
Ok, I'm looking at this again and was looking at the Artic s026 that Ron said was great before. Would I need 2 of these fixtures? Are they better than the evergrow lights? I can get the evergrow's here in canada and they have a better warranty, but if the so26 is the way to go, then I'll do that.

OCCOFNY
09/16/2013, 05:06 AM
Shellyfish, since you basically have LPS and Softies, I would go with 2 AI Hydras. The coverage would be sufficient and under $800. Down the road, if you decided to take a stab at SPS you would be able to do so if you added one more Hydra. AI was one of two companies that brought Leds into the Aquarium hobby and is still around. Good luck, Neil

Ron Reefman
09/16/2013, 05:15 AM
Ok, I'm looking at this again and was looking at the Artic s026 that Ron said was great before. Would I need 2 of these fixtures? Are they better than the evergrow lights? I can get the evergrow's here in canada and they have a better warranty, but if the so26 is the way to go, then I'll do that.

They are about equal. One has a few small advantages over the other, but if you can get one in Canada and with a better warranty, I'd probably go that way.:beer:

Shellyfish
09/16/2013, 12:52 PM
The AI's are a bit pricey. If I do LEDs I will stick with the evergrows. I've attached a really horrible sketch of my tank to give you an idea of the layout as it is an odd shape. Currently I have a 4 foot 4 bulb t5 fixture and a 3 foot 4 bulb T5 fixture running on it. I have only LPS and softies, no plans for SPS. What do you think would be the way to go ; 1 it2080 or 2 or 3 D120s? I would like to keep the set up simple but effective.

What is the major difference between the fixtures? Just the controlability? I pretty much want to be able to have the blue lights go on before and off after the white lights.

2 other things I'm concerned about: is the fact that leds don't produce UV a problem? And like Halides and T5s do they lose their strenght after a while?

Thanks!
http://i816.photobucket.com/albums/zz83/sheilaf1/tank_zps3e92d5f0.png (http://s816.photobucket.com/user/sheilaf1/media/tank_zps3e92d5f0.png.html)

asid61
09/16/2013, 04:38 PM
For a 5 ft tank, 2 Reef Breeders Value would be good. 90* optics should work fine.
Leds generally output 70% of the light at day one after 50,000 hours, and that's when you replace them. At 8 hours/day, that's about 17 years.

Shellyfish
09/16/2013, 05:56 PM
How high do you think they should be mounted, and how far apart in order to cover the whole tank?

asid61
09/16/2013, 06:07 PM
Equidistant from the sides of the tank and from each other. Height is just whatever you feel comfortable with. Tighter lenses mean high hang height though.

Ron Reefman
09/17/2013, 05:25 AM
Equidistant from the sides of the tank and from each other. Height is just whatever you feel comfortable with. Tighter lenses mean high hang height though.

asid is right about the height. It almost doesn't matter now that you have a fixture with dimmers.

I'll disagree slightly about placement over the tank. Think about it. Divide the tank in half and then hang the lights in the middle of each half. That will put them closer to the ends than they are from each other. Example: lets say the lights are 16" long. Your tank is 60" long. Divide the tank in half, which is 30" each. Subtract the 16" for the fixture and you have 14" left. Split the extra 14" and hang them 7" off the ends. Now you'll have 14" between them. Doing what asid suggests means they overlap a lot of light in the center of the tank and it can make it too strong (it almost doubles up the PAR). That can cause trouble for some corals. Even doing it my way you should be careful about the corals in the middle, between the 2 fixtures. If you test it with a PAR meter you may find you still have overlap and some high PAR values.

zachts
09/17/2013, 12:42 PM
I think I would aggree with Ron on placement, but someone should confirm with a PAR meeter if possible if you need equally bright light in the center of the tank. this would definately be the case with no optics...

However, optics like those used on the RB fixtures do not evenly distribute light across their rated angle of spread. They creat a hot spot with most of it aimed down within the first 15-30 degrees depending on agle of the optic. So with that consideration asid61's advise might actually provide more even distribution thoughout the center of the tank. (cheak out the LEDiL website for some good representative distribution patterns for these type of optic.

Shellyfish
09/17/2013, 02:59 PM
Ok, so 2 questions, do you guys for sure think 2 units is enough? I want enough lighting for what I have without melting/bleaching anything and I have no intention of doing SPS. I would love to be able to get away with 2 if possible but will go with 3 if needed.

Second (sorry if this is a dumb question!) What exactly do you guys mean by optics?

Thanks!

zachts
09/17/2013, 05:05 PM
two fixtures should be plenty, probably even to grow SPS someday..........
you can dim them down to whatever lower level your coral requires in the mean time and save energy (they will last longer as well)

Optics is the term that genericly reffers to prety much all of the different types of focusing "lenses" that go on over the LEDs, i.e. 40, 60, or 80 degree.......

Shellyfish
09/17/2013, 05:35 PM
Ok, that's what I thought optics meant, but I figured I'd better check. I believe these come with 90 degree ones.

asid61
09/17/2013, 05:46 PM
asid is right about the height. It almost doesn't matter now that you have a fixture with dimmers.

I'll disagree slightly about placement over the tank. Think about it. Divide the tank in half and then hang the lights in the middle of each half. That will put them closer to the ends than they are from each other. Example: lets say the lights are 16" long. Your tank is 60" long. Divide the tank in half, which is 30" each. Subtract the 16" for the fixture and you have 14" left. Split the extra 14" and hang them 7" off the ends. Now you'll have 14" between them. Doing what asid suggests means they overlap a lot of light in the center of the tank and it can make it too strong (it almost doubles up the PAR). That can cause trouble for some corals. Even doing it my way you should be careful about the corals in the middle, between the 2 fixtures. If you test it with a PAR meter you may find you still have overlap and some high PAR values.

You are totally right, Ron, I erred. If x is the distance from the sides of the tank, then 2x is the distance between the fixtures.

Ron Reefman
09/18/2013, 04:28 AM
You are totally right, Ron, I erred. If x is the distance from the sides of the tank, then 2x is the distance between the fixtures.

Happy we can agree. It seems to be happening more and more lately! :beer:

Shellyfish
09/18/2013, 07:37 PM
Sorry, thought of one more question, how loud are the fans on these units? I'm really bad for wanting things to be quiet.

Shellyfish
09/19/2013, 05:08 PM
Anyone? Any comments about how loud these fans are?

asid61
09/20/2013, 07:42 PM
Commercial led fixtures tend to have near-silent fans.

tdb320reef
09/20/2013, 09:51 PM
Looking at the form factor of the aquarium, type of corals, rock layout and depth I think yd be fine with two. If you get into SPS then Three. I have two D120's over a 56 X 30 something 150 gallon frag tub and the SPS look great with Blues at 100% and Whites at 30%. Dealing with the braces seem to be the challenge.

Shellyfish
09/22/2013, 08:44 PM
Ok, I ordered two tonight, I'm pretty excited about them! How high off the water should I mount them? 6" or more? And when I get them set up, what percentage should I start them at? I'm guessing not 100%

Ron Reefman
09/23/2013, 04:18 AM
Which fixtures did you get?

You can hang them any hiegth you want. You are the one who can look at it and see if the light is covering the entire tank. If it's not, go higher.

You are right, don't start at 100% (unless all you have in the tank is LR). Start very low and bring them up a little every few days. Or do slightly bigger moves every week. Where you start depends a little on what kind of light you had before. Just guessing (which is all anybody can do without more info from you) I'd say 40-50% blue and 10%-20% white.

Shellyfish
09/23/2013, 07:15 PM
I got 2 of the D120's.

Currently for light i have 2 T5 fixtures- one no name thing that has 4 54W deep blue bulbs 2 actinic and 2 10000k. The other is a tek light with 4 39w bulbs 2 actinic and 2 10000k deep blue bulbs. These are not great bulbs and very dim compared to the geismann bulbs I used to use.

Jrod4
09/23/2013, 07:40 PM
For a 58 gallon tank (36" long, 18" wide, 21" tall) should I get one D120 or 2?

asid61
09/23/2013, 08:21 PM
For a 58 gallon tank (36" long, 18" wide, 21" tall) should I get one D120 or 2?

One would be okay, but running it at 70% you would keep SPS at the middle-top. Two would be better.

Ron Reefman
09/24/2013, 06:35 AM
For a 58 gallon tank (36" long, 18" wide, 21" tall) should I get one D120 or 2?

I think 1 is a bit iffy. I had 1 over my 4' 55g tank and it was all of 12"-16" short of covering the tank at each end. I even pulled some lenses and it helped, but it was just barely 3'. If you can do 2, you'll be better off. More coverage, less shadows, lower power on both fixtures. I eventually switched to OR S026 which have the leds spread out more over the face of the fixture and can cover a little more square footage in the tank. They 'glare' less in a dimly lit room (like when watching TV at night).

Jrod4
09/27/2013, 07:23 AM
Would a Photon 32 work better? Those look nice

that Fish Guy
09/27/2013, 09:30 AM
I wouldn't do those, a few reasons:

1w LEDs. Those aren't going to put out what it says they are, I can promise you that.
Only white and blue. The most successful fixtures have expanded an incorporated many more color frequencies for a reason :)
The tagline "*Specs may slightly vary from actual" - scares the crap out of me.

From what you listed, I'd say the ReefBreeders is the best "cheap" option or a DIY rig from Rapid LED.

Saving $$ now means spending $$ later. I'm sure someone will chime in with more specific info, though. don't be one of those who buys a crap fixture and then comes back to the forum trash-talking LEDs ;)

+1

I have more than a Few LED's that were Cheap (Now they just sit on the Floor and Collect Dust) (Marineland 1 Watt Reef "NOT" Capable and AquaticLife 1 Watt I am looking at you). That is 600.00 right there that I burned and got no use out of.

In my opinion the Cheap LED's are the Most Expensive since once you get them and find out how bad they are you don't use them.

So Pretty Much it is like burning money for the cheap ones.

You think oh great price but you do not use them so they then become the worst purchases you ever made.

Buy something good that you are actually going to use.

Stomatopod1701
09/27/2013, 02:13 PM
I agree for reef tanks (and to a lesser extent freshwater plants) just get decent leds in the first place, it would save you a lot of headache and cash:)
I do use my cheapo (but actually not so cheap, see above) leds over many of my cichlid tanks and a fowlr, some even grow low light plants (java moss, java fern) OK.

Ron Reefman
09/27/2013, 04:51 PM
Would a Photon 32 work better? Those look nice

The EverGrow OR-IT2080 (32") and the Photon 32 are both very good fixtures. I have 2 of the IT2080's over my 180g sps& lps tank. And at 10 months my corals are growing and as colorful as I could want.

zachts
09/27/2013, 08:12 PM
+1

I have more than a Few LED's that were Cheap (Now they just sit on the Floor and Collect Dust) (Marineland 1 Watt Reef "NOT" Capable and AquaticLife 1 Watt I am looking at you). That is 600.00 right there that I burned and got no use out of.

In my opinion the Cheap LED's are the Most Expensive since once you get them and find out how bad they are you don't use them.

So Pretty Much it is like burning money for the cheap ones.

You think oh great price but you do not use them so they then become the worst purchases you ever made.

Buy something good that you are actually going to use.

Use them to start your garden plants, at least then they won't go to compete waste..........

Shellyfish
10/20/2013, 02:52 PM
Ok, I got the 2 120's from Reef supply canada. I started them at 20% and have slowly go them up to 50% now. A couple of heads of my frogspawn and my gsp seem unhappy. Any ideas? suggestions?

zachts
10/21/2013, 11:27 AM
Light shock most likely. Dial things back down and wait a few weeks. Back it off to ~40% and if no improvements in a few days back it down more. Then leave it for several weeks before increasing again.

Both those corals do well with considerably less light than one might imagine (but they should also aclimate to high levels in time), you could also try moving them lower in the tank, or to an area that recieves less direct light.

Shellyfish
10/22/2013, 04:06 PM
The gsp is right on the ground and the frogspawn is in the middle. I'll try dialing it down and see what happens.

Shellyfish
10/23/2013, 06:32 PM
How long before things should be happy again?